Non-FFL gun selled jailed for selling to illegal immigrant with a driver's license.

[krispos42]

Caveat: the story is short and the radio station looks like it's RW. Limp-bough and Neal Boortz, for example.

Gun dealer sentenced to 6-months for selling weapons to a undocumented immigrant.
Newsroom
8/31/2010


One of the gun dealers of Austin's Gun Show is sentenced to 6-months at a federal work camp for selling a weapon to an undocumented immigrant. Independent firearms dealer-Paul Copeland says for years he has commonly sold handguns and antique weapons with no problems and prior to his arrest the illegal immigrant showed him what appeared to be a valid Texas driver’s license. In January 2009, the ATF along with the Austin police department set up a sting operation targeting independent firearms dealers that were selling weapons to illegal immigrants, both inside the show and outside the Austin’s Gun Show’s parking lot. Shortly after the series of arrests, the regularly scheduled weapons-event was asked to move from the North Austin location. Investigators with the Austin police department believed many of the guns sold to the undocumented immigrants at the show were headed back across the Texas-Mexico border. “I guess you need ask them <Latinos> for their documentation too; if the police aren’t going to profile why should the common citizen have to” says Copeland. He says none of the undocumented immigrants that were asked to testify against him were arrested by federal agents. Austin's Federal Judge Sam Sparks sentenced Copeland to spend the next 6-months at a federal work camp followed by 2-years of probation.

http://www.590klbj.com/News/Story.aspx?ID=1272077

It appears he wasn't an FFL, just an ordinary guy selling firearms. However, if he "commonly sold handguns and antique weapons", seems to me he should be an FFL.

Now, the other issue was that he was renting tables at gun shows to perform his business. This is commonly, although incorrectly, portrayed as "the gun show loophole".

[MichaelHarris]

1. you may not

want to call it a loophole but it's one of the easiest ways for a criminal to get a handgun. I bought my .32 cal 1915 Savage auto pistol at a gun show in Idaho and I didn't have to show anything. No id, no minimum age no green card, no nothing except photos on green paper of dead presidents. Even though I was glad to get this nice little antique I still felt it was wrong.

[Travis_0004]

6. It MAY be a very easy way to get guns, but its not how crimials get their guns

2% of guns used in crimes game from gun shows. 2% (NIJ study 1997)

There are other studies with similar results.

[Euromutt]

7. Were you a resident of Idaho at the time?

Because if not, the reason you may have "still felt it was wrong" is because you actually committed a federal felony by acquiring a handgun outside your state of residence; U.S. Code, Title 18, § 922(a)(3) http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode18/usc_sec_18_00000922----000-.html, punishable by up to five years' imprisonment.

Legally, you should have had the seller ship the gun to a Type 01 FFL in Washington state, and taken delivery from him.

[one-eyed fat man]

2. Selling guns as a 'business'

If he was selling guns as a business, or across state lines, then he was supposed to have an FFL. The law does not have a clear cut line of defining what 'engaged in the business' means. While an individual is permitted to sell a gun or trade to improve his collection, selling guns with the intent to make money is not permitted, even if the seller doesn't actually make any money.

Antique guns made in or before 1898 ("pre-1899") are generally outside of Federal jurisdiction, and may be bought and sold across state lines without a FFL. FFL holders have been directed to not enter Pre-1899 antique guns into their Bound Books.

Based on the information in the article, at least the Federal judge was convinced the guy was doing something illegal. He may have been duped by phony documents. He may have been skirting the law for years. How many guns can you turn over improving your collection before you are "dealing" in guns? The article doesn't say exactly what he did to get convicted. He intimates that it was for "unknowingly" selling a gun to an illegal alien. I'm not sure what conclusion the article's lack of detail is supposed to make me jump to?

A similar problem exists with cars. You can sell your car as an individual. Some states will only allow an individual to sell a certain number of vehicles after which the person is assumed to be a dealer. This is a tax issue. A dealer is liable for the sales tax, even if he didn't collect it when the sale was made.

[Katya Mullethov]

4. This is classic BATFE&GHs

The industry term for this is "duplicity " , and like a dog covered in feathers and blood , they just wag their tails with a " wut?" look on their face .

""In a trial before Federal Judge Sam Sparks, government lawyers conceded Texas resident Paul Copeland did not know his buyer was an illegal alien, but the jury should convict him anyway because he "had reasonable cause to believe" he was selling to an illegal alien because the two men and a boy who were present at his table at the time of the sale: 1) were Hispanic, 2) spoke Spanish, and 3) wore cowboy clothing. And the jury did as asked. Assistant U.S. Attorney Jennifer Freel acted as lead prosecutor in the case.""


Give it a while to all come out . Maybe they will make a TV movie or something .

[Glassunion]

5. On points 1, 2 and three.

I've been to southern Texas many times.
1. There are a lot of Hispanics. But they are Americans.
2. A lot of people in south Texas speak Spanish. Not just the "illegals".
3. Gimme a fuckin' break. Everybody(slight exaggeration) does.

[Callisto32]

3. A couple of points.

1. It should be easier to get an FFL. If you are clean (can qualify for a LTCF/CCWP/whateveryourstatecallsit) you should be eligible, if you are willing to take on the paperwork and other requirements. Not that I think this kind if licensure is right, mind you, but I'll take baby steps.

2. How do you run a sting operation to bust guys selling to "illegal immigrants" without enlisting the assistance of the very "illegal immigrants" that you say are illegal? Once again, I think "illegal immigration" is a bunch of crap. Why can't free people cross the boarders of a free country freely? This merely serves to show the hypcricy of all that "nation of laws, not of men" B.S. that they spout. It sure looks like a nation of men to me. "This man "helped" us so he may stay, this one did not so he must leave."

[X_Digger]

8. One of the local directors of TSRA checked this out, and it's not true..

It's a confabulation of details from different true stories.