Firing Line - Is the Appleseed Project just a rifle course?

[groovedaddy]

One June morning last year, Jack Dailey drove from his home in North Carolina’s Piedmont country, through verdant, hilly farmland to a rifle range near the town of Ramseur. Eleven men and a woman had mustered there for a weeklong boot camp run by the Appleseed Project, a group Dailey started that is dedicated to teaching every American how to fire a bullet through a man-size target out to 500 yards. So far Appleseed has taught 25,000 people to shoot; 7,000 more will learn by the end of this year. Its instructors teach this skill not for the purpose of hunting or sport. They see marksmanship as fundamental to Americans’ ability to defend their liberty, whether against foreigners or the agents of a (hypothetical) tyrannical government. Appleseed frames this activity as being somewhere between a historical re-enactment and a viable last resort. I came to find out how serious they were.

Dailey, Appleseed’s founder and rhetorician in chief, is a tall man with silver hair. He wore black sneakers, a red polo shirt tucked into jeans and a red baseball cap. Sixty-six years old, he could have been a grandfather spending a leisurely morning on a public golf course if not for his unyielding expression and his voice, which is well equipped for the stirring up of men.

In the previous day’s lecture, Dailey discussed taxes — the situation of the American taxpayer, he said, compared unfavorably with the lives of slaves in ancient Egypt. Today he got down to the matter at hand: defense against overweening government. “Look at the choice those guys made,” he said, referring to the colonial-era militia. “I’ll post you 65 yards from the road. In a few hours there’s gonna be hundreds of redcoats marching down that road. Your liberty depends on you stopping ’em.”

Two lead musket balls were passed around the clubhouse, through the hands of a camouflaged Navy midshipman, two sheriff’s deputies, a farm-owning factory worker, a college professor, a pilot, a retiree and a high-school sophomore. Those who shot an “expert” score on Dailey’s qualification test would become “riflemen,” as designated by olive-green patches. For now, most of these novice shooters were referred to as “cooks.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/01/magazine/01Appleseed-t.html?th&emc=th

[onehandle]

1. More paranoid, racist, armed to the teeth teabagger types. nt

[armueller2001]

9. Stereotype much?

Get a grip man.

[SteveM]

15. Gosh, you owning up to being 'paranoid'? Again?

This is old stuff; posted some 2 years ago.

[Francis Marion]

43. The article is somewhat uncharitable, so say it nicely

And wanders too often onto paths tangential to/divergent from Appleseed, I think. Nevertheless, the author conveyed his impressions, as he should have, and I trust, as he intended. It struck me as a mixture of ambivalent/negative opinion/scattered focus, and also objective fact. I would encourage people to take the author's example and see things for yourself, judge for yourself. The merit of the program is informed by who chooses to attend- or not attend, to instruct or not instruct.

Shooting participants represent the set of people who chose to attend that day. They're from all walks of life, and, I hope, from all political persuasions- and that's by nature going to include people with whom you heartily disagree. Admission is open to the public.

But is it really news to anybody that conservatives like guns and shooting? No? Well I can tell you for a fact that conservatives have no idea that Democrats like to shoot, too. They assume, wrongly, that the Democrat electorate resembles the Democrat legislator in (usual) contempt for our RKBA. The truth of the matter is that many Democrats respect the RKBA, although the party often does not.

Don't complain about the quality of the attendees until you and your friends have done their best to balance out the composition.

[guruoo]

2. Look at how they treat the American flag...

Full page view:
http://www.nytimes.com/slideshow/2010/07/27/magazine/20100801-appleseed-12.html

[Callisto32]

23. A flag is just a piece of cloth.

Treating it like some sacred object edges dangerously close to that most insidious of religions, state-ism.

Besides, this looks like it is, in fact, a TOWEL, and not touching the ground at that.

[guruoo]

30. It's about RW hypocracy. nt

[Callisto32]

47. I agree...

that "wrapping yourself in the flag" and then doing stupid stuff with it is tacky.

However, I think that the American right has bigger problems we need to point out than that.

[Francis Marion]

44. I'm pretty sure that's a flag print article of clothing.

And come on, they're not burning it.

But look at how they treat the Bill of Rights.

Appleseed affords people an opportunity to:
Meet in public.
Speak freely.
Travel to and from the range secure from unreasonable search and siezure.
Become better regulated in the use of arms.

In short, they look like a group of Americans.

You'd be welcome to join in.

[damntexdem]

3. Well, you know it's just for self-defense, when they teach hitting man-sized targets at 500 yards.

;-)

[formercia]

6. Good point.

If they take on the Feds, it won't come close to matching a 30mm chain gun.

[Statistical]

11. Hypothenticals are fun.

Who is going to fire than 30mm chain gun? A robot? Think that soldier might have some issue with firing upon fellow Americans?

Now say the insurgents are inside American cities. Think same pilot will feel less reluctant to open up with a 30mm cannon when insurgent is firing from say an apartment building (with 2 dozen apartments full of non-combatants).

In any such uprising that had the support of the people don't you think it would be likely that at least some % of the military would either join the rebellion or simply leave their post and go protect their families. Little known fact soldier's take an oat to protect the Constitution from all enemies not Washington DC.

1/3 of military firepower is under the control of State governors. Entirely possible they would simply prevent those forces from being used to kill Americans in their own state.

The 2nd is no guarantee, it simply give the people the opportunity to stand up to a tyrannical government. Most rebels die, and most rebellions fails. The 2nd doesn't change that however if the people have no arms then the chance of rebellion is essentially 0 and the government never has to fear the people no matter how tyrannical.

[SteveM]

16. No wonder the U.S. gets into so many no-win wars...

People here think that NO ONE -- even American civilians -- can deal with the weaponry of the U.S. military.











Who ever heard of such?

[friendly_iconoclast]

20. How quickly they forget Vietnam- we were going bomb them back into the Stone Age nt

[friendly_iconoclast]

19. A bunch of fundie hillbillies are doing fairly well at taking on the Feds as we speak...

Granted, the fundies are Muslim fundies and the hills are in Afghanistan - but the principle applies.

[formercia]

26. These Teabagger posers would give it up for a Donut

The Afghans are willing to die for their beliefs.

Are You?

[one-eyed fat man]

32. Actually, yes.

I took this oath 50 years ago.

I, (NAME), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.

Executive Order 10631, The United States Armed Forces Code of Conduct was promulgated by President Eisenhower on August 17, 1955.

Code of Conduct for Members of the United States Armed Forces

I-- I am an American fighting man. I serve in the forces which guard my country and our way of life. I am prepared to give my life in their defense.


II-- I will never surrender of my own free will. If in command, I will never surrender my men while they still have the means to resist.


III-- If I am captured I will continue to resist by all means available. I will make every effort to escape and aid others to escape. I will accept neither parole nor special favors from the enemy.


IV-- If I become a prisoner of war, I will keep faith with my fellow prisoners. I will give no information or take part in any action which might be harmful to my comrades. If I am senior, I will take command. If not, I will obey the lawful orders of those appointed over me and will back them up in every way.


V-- When questioned, should I become a prisoner of war, I am bound to give only name, rank, service number, and date of birth. I will evade answering further questions to the utmost of my ability. I will make no oral or written statements disloyal to my country and its allies or harmful to their cause.


VI-- I will never forget that I am an American fighting man, responsible for my actions, and dedicated to the principles which made my country free. I will trust in my God and in the United States of America.

I have been retired from the Army for a while, but as long as I draw breath my oath and the Code of Conduct are binding.

[DonP]

49. It's often been noted - no expiration date involved

Those of us that took the step forward, raised our hand and took the oath have generally noted that there was no expiration date involved.

[Glassunion]

50. The Marines even continue after death...

If the Army and the Navy
Ever look on Heaven’s scenes;
They will find the streets are guarded
By United States Marines.

[friendly_iconoclast]

37. Perhaps. Would you yourself be willing to confront the "Teabagger posers"?

Are you willing to put your assertion that they "would give it up for a Donut" to the test in person?

Or would you prefer it be done by someone else on your behalf?

[friendly_iconoclast]

48. Hmm, my interlocutor seems to have left the building.

Must have been an urgent appointment or something...

[oneshooter]

7. I shoot HighPower, from 200 to 500 yards

Military rifles, 3 position, timed, as issued sights and no scopes. Can you?

Oneshooter
Armed and Livin in Texas

[DonP]

13. All "High Power" events starts at 200 yards ...

... then most go out to 600 yards, if the range space is available.

Camp Perry is a pretty typical operation. The range starts at 100 yards and goes out to 600 yards. That's pretty much the norm. If they don't have the distance available you shrink the targets to simulate the distance. Camp Perry is basically run by the US Government, maybe they are planning on revolution against themselves?

Sorry to disappoint all of you, it's not a conspiracy, it's just a shooting instruction match, with a little revolutionary war history thrown in, where people that have never shot high power, or haven't shot it for years since their time in the military can re-learn the skills. If you ever visit the Lexington Battle Green, you'll get pretty much the same speech from the docent on duty as well.

Appleseed teaches things like natural point of aim, breath control, trigger control, use of the sling for shooting from prone and sitting/kneeling etc.

I don't think they teach the secret Michigan Militia handshake and the radio codes for the revolution. But feel free to get the appropriate choice of underwear in a wad over it every few months anyway.

[oneshooter]

14. We have 100yds to 500 available.

Many choose to shoot reduced course, 200yds only, and the Garand match course.

Oneshooter
Armed and Livin in Texas

[one-eyed fat man]

17. Scott Mountain range on Fort Knox

http://kysrpa.org/2010/2010-lr-match-bulletin

50 firing points and out to a 1000 yards.

Used to be a lot simpler when it was still the Armor Center. Since the staff weenies from Accessions Command took over post there have been more damn silly security changes. (A pox on all REMFS and Fobbits!)

Used to be a soldier or a retiree could go to Range Control and check in, get the key and a range flag, go shoot and stop back by when he was done.

[oneshooter]

21. Got a 1000yd private range in Columbus, Black Powder Cartridge only

Go there for a Metallic Silhouette Match each month. 200yds to 500yds with Sharps Rifles, black powder, lead bullets and vernier tang sights. Loads of FUN!

Oneshooter
Armed and Livin in Texas

[one-eyed fat man]

22. BPCR is a hoot!

I have been shooting black powder cartridge guns for a while. My old Army and shooting buddy campaigns a Sile Sharps with Hoke sights. He takes it a lot more seriously than I do. But where he lives now, not far from Teddy Roosevelt's old ranch in North Dakota, he has only to step out on his back porch to practice.



I shoot a original trapdoor, built in 1878. Every June, we make the trip out to Forsyth to shoot the Quigley. He keeps trying to talk me into going to shoot the Wasserburger Mile. I think I would have to shoot the Winchester 1885 Hi-Wall for that as the Springfield's barrel sight won't go high enough. It sure looks like it would be a good match to attend.

http://creedmoorshooting.files.wordpress.com/2010/04/2010wasserburgermatch.pdf

[oneshooter]

25. Started with a Trapdoor, but in the heat

That thin barrel just moves too much. Am currently shooting a Taylor Sharps action with a Badger 30" barrel in 45/100. Good for 1000yds with a 530gr cast postall and 95gr of Goex 2fg.

Oneshooter
Armed and Livin in Texas

[one-eyed fat man]

29. For me, the thin barrel is no handicap

The real limiting factor is the GI issue sight of that vintage. (The one on the left)



Without the screw adjustment and vernier like the later Buffington sights (1884 vintage sight on the right) or a tang-mounted Soule type sight making a minor adjustment or a repeatable adjustment is almost impossible. Thus the technique is to make the initial settings and if that doesn't put you on target hope it is close enough to spot and adjust your aiming point for subsequent rounds.

I use the Lyman 457193 500 grain duplicate of the government issue bullet, cast 30:1, on top of card wad and 70 grains of 1-1/2 Swiss trickled and compressed into Remington brass. The slow twist on the Springfield doesn't stabilize some of the new heavy long bullet designs well. There were 629 shooters in the Quigley Match this year and while a long ways out of the money, that 132 year old military issue rifle still shot better than 347 other guns.

The military specification from Frankfort Arsenal in 1881 called for the ammunition to shoot into an 11 inch circle at 500 yards. That's 2 MOA for service ammunition. Compare that to the 7.62 NATO issue Match ammo which shoots into a 7 inch circle at 600 yards. That's about 1.1 MOA. Pretty impressive what they did with black powder back then.

[Euromutt]

28. Hey now, speaking as a former REMF...

...haven't you ever heard of "getting grungy"? During Vietnam, REMFs were often quite keen to be assigned to local security patrols or convoy duty because it provided a break from the monotony of their regular jobs (as long as they weren't expected to pull such assignments and perform their regular jobs full-time or more). During my twelve months as a REMF, especially past the half-way mark, I was getting pretty eager to grab any temporary assignment that would get me out of the office for a couple of days.

And let's not kid ourselves: there isn't a grunt who'd turn down a REMF job if it was offered.

[one-eyed fat man]

31. Funny you should mention that!

They have a name for that now too.



I was always a tank crewman, tank commander and despite a couple of instructor assignments, I was always happier in the field like some other old line dogs I knew. Life was always simpler the further away you got from the flagpole in peace time, especially after I became a First Sergeant. In combat, the opportunity for revenge and retribution was important. The further to the rear you are the bigger the gun they shoot at you with. Not much you can do about it either except cower in a bunker and hope they miss.

On the tank, you could often see where the fire was coming from and apply corrective actions to disabuse the bastards. It was always pretty satisfying to shred a three man tank-killer team and their RPG's with canister at close range, and run what's left over with the track.

[oneshooter]

34. 0311, USMC 1970-78 Tanks were targets to us.

They drew fire when they were near, and were of no use when they weren't!

Oneshooter
Armed and Livin in Texas


(clank! clank! I'm a TANK!)

[one-eyed fat man]

35. Infantry were track lube.

but it made the track smell bad when the chunks in the end connectors and track pads started to decay.

Here is some footage from the M1028 canister round for the M1 tank. They are .36 caliber round balls made from sintered tungsten. That keeps them dense for good momentum and hard so not to deform under launch. Optimum range is under 400 meters, but an individual pellet still has more steam on it at 1000 meters than a 00 buck pellet does at the muzzle from a shotgun.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=4&ved=0CCMQtwIwAw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DCgn1nhUEgo8&ei=8VpYTJmoH4T68AaRwtDFCg&usg=AFQjCNGVKTMx6Zokk6yri0V57lTnkUSq_w

The M48A3's 90mm canister had 25 pounds of flechettes. They were made of hardened steel and had tremendous penetration. (I have some old photos from 40-42 years ago that attest to their effectiveness too graphically to post here.)



I will grant you that tanks are bullet magnets though, everybody shoots at them! It makes it rough on supporting infantry because the stuff bouncing off the tank hurts them. That being said, I had crewmwmbers who received Silver Stars fighting their way in to even up the odds for some grunts who found them selves in a jam. (Branch and interservice rivalry are good fun in the NCO club, but in combat things get down to business.)

Suoi Tre, FSB Gold



LTC John Bender, the fire base commander commented, "It was just like the 10 o’clock late show on TV. The U.S. Cavalry came riding to the rescue."

[oneshooter]

36. Would you rather NOT have infantry support?

"It makes it rough if you have supporting infantry because the stuff bouncing off the tank hurts them."

And that wot don't bounce off hurts you.

As a Combat Infantryman we learned that either you ambush, and not miss, or get behind, and don't miss, most armour.
Mostly in RVN tanks were used as mobile arty. And when it rained they weren't very mobile!

In the world of Combined Arms, Armour, Arty, and Mud Marines worked together to confuse, envelope and defeat the enemy.

Not that it happened very often, but when it did it was AWESOME!

Oneshooter
Armed and Livin in Texas

[friendly_iconoclast]

18. What's the 'Goldilocks' level for shooting ability, then?

IOW, what is neither so inept as to be hazardous to bystanders nor so accurate only teh skerry insurgent wannbees will be able to do it?

[Francis Marion]

46. Four Minutes of Angle or smaller, to at least 500 yds

... from field positions using sling support. That is a standard familiar to an early/mid 20th century US infantry soldier. It's essentially the level of proficiency of a Marine rifleman today.

[Callisto32]

24. They never said it is for self defense...

the point is to teach rifle marksmanship. A rifle is a long-range weapon.

[benEzra]

27. So I take it you oppose F-class benchrest, too, then?

Something tells me that if Appleseed were trying to get people up to speed on close-quarters shooting with rifles (USPSA/IPSC style instead of Camp Perry style), then the fearmongers would be complaining that they're training wannabe insurgents in building-assault techniques, and you'd have said something like "Well, you know it's just for self-defense, when they teach hitting four man-sized targets two times each in 6 seconds." Right?

I'm sure some would still say Appleseed is of the debbil if they were teaching Olympic-style biathlon.

[spin]

39. They use the AQT (Army Qualification Test) ...

Rifleman Qualification

The goal of the Appleseed Project is to train shooters to achieve a score of 210 or higher on an adapted Army Qualification Test (AQT). This score will place shooters in the top 5% in the country in terms of accuracy. The AQT uses timed stages to test shooting skill from standing, sitting and prone positions. The test simulates ranges of 100, 200, 300 and 400 meters. The 400 meter simulated target is approximately 6.25 square centimeters (about one square inch) at 25 meters. This translates into a 4 minutes of angle (MOA) wide target which is the rifleman standard in the Appleseed program.

Shooters who score 210 or better on the AQT earn the Rifleman designation and be issued a patch which also enables them to come back and enter the Instructor In Training program and teach others.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appleseed_Project

[Francis Marion]

45. Not self defense.

Teaching men and women to hit man-sized targets at 500 yards accomplishes two ends:
1) it matches the skill of the firer to the perfomance capability of a typical military rifle,
2) it prepared a free person to defend their country in time of crisis.

I have helped several young people prepare for military service by means of the Appleseed Program. Nobody's there, from what I have seen, for any other purpose.

A rifle educates, and makes, a free people.

"That rifle hanging on the wall
of the working-class flat or labourer's cottage
is the symbol of democracy.
It is our job to see that it stays there."
-George Orwell

Source: http://www.orwelltoday.com/guncontrol.shtml

[spin]

4. This video shows a 1941 German Mauser 98k and a target 900 yards away ...

Looks like fun.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e8B4Me5HXNo&feature=related

[formercia]

5. The 8X57 is a good cartridge

I rebuilt a Yugoslav M48 with a match grade barrel and did like in the video by reforming 30-06 brass to 8X57. The original 8x57 was only rated at 36K psi, thus, the brass is much less substantial than the '06 brass.
I use the 200gr. Nosler Accubond, which has about the same ballistics as the Nosler 180 Accubond in 30 cal.

It's a very accurate rifle.

[Hoopla Phil]

8. They came through town a couple years ago. Didn't have the extra

cash to go and participate.

[Hoopla Phil]

10. I believe this organization has been discussed here on D.U. before.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x8842080

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=118x228882

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=118x254235

This one was posted in guns forum but locked for being in the wrong forum
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=118x315064

[spin]

12. If we had a revolution every time ...

one political party gained control of the Presidency and both houses of Congress, our history would resemble that of a banana republic in South America.

There is a high level of frustration in our nation today. People have noticed that our government doesn't seem to listen to the voice of the people as much as bow down to the whims of the big corporations. The far right conservatives buy into the constant drumbeat of the people who claim that Obama is pushing a Socialist plan. The liberal Democrats are infuriated that Obama and the Democrats in Congress have failed to live up to their election promises. The Independents and the majority of people in both parties just want to see some cooperation between the Republicans and the Democrats to solve our problems.

But we can survive the current situation without launching a revolution. At some time such action may be necessary but not now or in the near future. The Constitution is an amazing document that has allowed our form of government to survive many tumultuous times.

Do I oppose long range shooting? No, it's a challenging and rewarding sport. Do I oppose teaching people how to shoot at long ranges while also preaching a philosophy of preparing to overthrow the government? Damn right I do. I would also oppose a class on concealed carry that advocated becoming a vigilante.

I have no experience with the Appleseed Project. I hesitate to base my opinion on just one newspaper article. I did visit their website and found:

Why teach marksmanship? Because good shooting requires learning positive traits such as patience, determination, focus, attention to detail, and persistence. Since these skills are likewise key elements of mature participation in civic activities, we urge our students to take what they have learned about themselves as marksmen and apply it to their participation in their communities and in the wider American society in accordance with their own choices about how Americans should govern themselves.

There are those who feel that America’s future is grim, that is, that America has lost something special and it can never be regained. And in their consternation they mutter about “dark choices” and the like. Appleseed has a message for them. Just over two hundred years ago our ancestors genuinely faced a tough choice. They could submit to those they felt were depriving them of their rights as Englishmen or they could fight. Because they chose as they did, we may never have to face their dilemma because we have a third alternative.

So what must you do with your third choice? Well, you must roll out of the recliner, cut off the computer, turn down the TV and get involved. That’s it. Talk to family, talk to friends, interact with neighbors, take part in local community decisions, and become active in whatever political party best fits your idea of how America should be governed. Write to your elected representative, attend town halls, correspond with newspaper editors, and wholeheartedly enter the discussion in both online and traditional forums.

Read! Think! Debate! Vote! And finally, we'd really like your help in shaping America's bright future by participating in this program as a student, as an instructor, or as a volunteer in other support roles. But even if you never pick up a rifle again, know that you are everything that the Appleseed Project works for. You are an involved, committed American making responsible use of the liberties gifted to us so long ago. The future is what we make -- YOU make -- of it.
http://www.appleseedinfo.org/

I find it hard to determine their true objectives without actually attending one of their events. I do agree that it is time for all Americans to get involved reading, thinking, debating and VOTING.

[Euromutt]

33. So at least their stated purposes don't advocate armed revolt

In fact, they explicitly advocate the ballot box over the bullet box. Now, admittedly, that doesn't eliminate the possibility that they might be lying, but it does raise the bar for the amount of evidence required quite a bit higher than "they want to teach people to hit a man-sized target at 500 yards, they must be sinister and evil."

[spin]

38. Appleseed sounds like a cross between a history lesson ...

and the AQT (Army Qualification Test).

[DonP]

40. Good description

There's a lot of history doled out and some good shooting tips along with the AQT style shooting.

I'm a natural "righty", but left eye dominant, and they helped me finally learn to use my sling properly and how to check my Natural Point of Aim when I settled in for a string of fire. They even were able to help me get a full 10 shot rapid fire string out of my '03 bolt action, shooting lefty.

If there was a secret meeting behind the men's room about planning for the revolution I must have missed the call and so did the other 40 guys in my relay.

I guess there are just some simple minded folk that hear "Guns" and "People shooting as a group" and are only capable of thinking conspiracy.

I expect we're going to see this thread repeated several times this year again.

[Francis Marion]

42. Appleseed = Heritage plus Marksmanship

It's nonpartisan, and wholly open to Democrats, Progressives... anybody, really. Have worked with Appleseed for a few years now and have some knowledge of the program. Somebody had to start it, and you might assume (correctly?) that it was by 'some kind of right winger'. But I ask you, why, if Progressives are such friends of the Bill of Rights, didn't a Progressive beat him to it???

Suppose you had a math professor who was a Republican. Would you discount Pythagorus' Theorem simply because a Republican first brought it to your attention? No; thus the means to knowledge and the values of things have little to do with the medium of transmission- if value exists, you will perceive it.

What interested me in the program? Among other things, chiefly, it is the fact that I watched my Democrat-controlled California legislature take away our gun rights at a steady rate over the past twenty years.

It's not acceptable for Appleseed staff (or even necessary) to bring personal politics to events, or to the curriculum.

If there was more to it than that, I would have noticed by now. I wish more Democrats would help out. You are needed, and will be welcomed. It's OUR Bill of rights after all, right?

In my opinion, the Bill of Rights are the property of the People (not of any party) and therefore, The People of all political persuasions should be able to cooperate productively, positively in the furtherance thereof. Appleseed transmits rifle shooting fundamentals (the Second Amendment) to The People, along with a lunchtime lecture on the events of April 19, 1775 and the day New England farmers stood together to win our freedom, our nation. I don't know how you could make the program more nonpartisan, or more essentially American. I never ask attendees about their personal political views, but I encourage each of them to vote and instruct their legislators according to their personal values. I don't know how they vote, but I hope that they do. And I hope that they vote for people who are likely to protect the Bill of Rights.

Americans who value the Second Amendment will find common ground, amity, and value with Appleseed, private views notwithstanding.

[one-eyed fat man]

41. A nation of riflemen

There have been periods of time and parts of the country when that appellation was accurate.

It has been applied to to other nations and men at various times as well.

The Boers gave Lord Kitchener and his Tommies such fits the British were developing a version of the 7mm Mauser on the eve of WW1.

Seven hundred sixty Spanish regulars armed with M1893 7mm Mauser rifles, kept kept three Divisions of US troops (about 16,000 men) off San Juan Hill most of the day. That left enough of an impression on Teddy that when he became President and unhappy with the lack of progress on a rifle to replace the Krag, asked the Chief of Ordnance, "Why don't you just buy the Mauser?"

Ironically, when the M1903 Springfield was finally fielded, it prompted lawsuits from Mauser over patent infringments, which Mauser finally won in the US Supreme Court in the mid-30's. To add insult to injury, when the US had to field an Army to go to France, Springfield couldn't build the rifles in time.

The solution was to rechamber the rifle the British had designed in 1913 as Winchester and Remington were both producing the gun under contract to England.