Calif. restaurant that welcomed Open Carry regrets decision, changes policy

[Newsjock]

Source: Associated Press

Walnut Creek, Calif. (AP) -- A California restaurant chain is banning the display of guns after about 100 men carrying unloaded weapons gathered at its Walnut Creek location east of San Francisco.

Buckhorn Grill had agreed to host the meeting of Open Carry advocates earlier this month. The group wants to change California law to make it easier to carry loaded guns in public.

John Pickerel, owner of the seven-restaurant chain, said in a statement Friday he regrets the decision. He says no weapons are allowed in any of the chain's restaurants.

Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2010/02/13/state/n155158S82.DTL&tsp=1

[asdjrocky]

1. Who whould have thought that might turn out bad?

:shrug:

[Kyril Enko]

2. HA!

Maybe they just wanted the Old West back! :evilgrin:

[GreenStormCloud]

23. The real Old West had a much lower violent crime rate than we have today. N/T

[madokie]

3. One thing about it is that after a few years they're wouldn't be quite as many left to bother the

rest of us as they'll be shooting each other. ;-)

[ProgressiveProfessor]

4. It is more likely that they will save the lives of others

[Control-Z]

6. Seriously?

That was a joke, right?

[ProgressiveProfessor]

17. Quite

Most of the open carry crowd here in CA already have out of state concealed carry permits. The stats clearly show they are less likely to offend than even cops in some jurisdictions.

Several of my former students were there. Not from college, but from firearms training. I teach mostly GLBT.

[aliendroid]

34. Let's look at some real evidence on the subject

come on people, recognize real evidence

Vermont and NH allow open carry freely, without restriction.

Massachusetts doesn't even give you a concealed carry permit if you are a normal person (may issue CC state)

All three states put together would still be a small state, so the area is so small criminals can roam around and people move between the 3 states and intermix during the day. Let's just put it this way, if you are in NH and you see someone walking down the sidewalk, you can't assume they are from NH, there's a good chance they are from vermont or mass or NY state.

Based on your logic there should be shoot outs all day long in NH and vermont, but shoot outs add into violent crime stats, did you know that? That is what violent crime is. So let's look to see if NH and vermont have much higher crime than Mass.

I'll post up a chart comparing violent crime under this post.

[aliendroid]

35. Here's the chart

Now, does this chart agree with your view that full open carry leads to wild west shootouts?

[Name removed]

8. Deleted message

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[asdjrocky]

10. With their gun?

[aliendroid]

36. yes and no

They probably don't need to use the gun. When the criminal minded people know that people carry guns openly somewhere and those people really want to get a chance to blow a criminal away, criminal's tend not to go there to do crimes.

It's like Murphy's law and having a CCW permit: If you don't carry your gun someone is going to attack you, but if you carry your gun they won't. Even though this isn't really accurate there is some truth to Murphy's law and in fact Murphy's law would be very accurate for open carry as the act of open carry reduces the chance someone will commit a violent crime against you.

[sharesunited]

13. Deputy Fife Syndrome.

[proteus_lives]

21. Sad, silly little man.

[cowman]

29. Ahhhhh Shares

there you go again showing just how dumb you really are

[SteveM]

42. Now we know where you do your "research." nt

[farmout rightarm]

60. Yeah...with a 1957 black and white Philco. The deluxe 12" model.

:silly:

[beevul]

56. Better than sara brady syndrome. N/T.

[taurus145]

74. Go buy a sidecar

Don't forget to look under the seat.

[onehandle]

30. Yes. Everyone is automatically Dirty Harry when they are holding a gun.

This fact is well known.

[PavePusher]

51. Cite? n/t

[asdjrocky]

9. Now yer usin' yer noodle!

[aliendroid]

37. NH vermont, unrestricted open carry, lowest violent crime rate and murder in country

'nuff said.

[SteveM]

43. It is better to use the brain...

Have you seen a "shoot-out" between open-carry folks in a restaurant? Or anywhere? No?

Lazy, oft-repeated one-liners seem to be all the gun-controllers have left. That and DEEP wells of prejudice.

[farmout rightarm]

63. Well,it "could" happen. Just like Saddam Hussein "could" have tossed a nuke onto

Baltimore.

:eyes:

[Name removed]

20. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[tkmorris]

22. Don't be narcissistic

Keep it civil Dave.

[cowman]

26. What and

asinine statement

[aliendroid]

33. ignorant post

In other states with full open carry, pretty much all have lower violent crime than california and shooting each other would add to violent crime rate. They are not shooting each other. Give it up. HOllywood is not a good historical reference. Open carry of guns does not lead to more crime and there is evidence it reduces crime.

[SteveM]

40. "They'll be shooting each other:" Seen that a lot? nt

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

19. How many people were killed or injured? Oh wait.

[aliendroid]

38. out of all the open carry events, you'll have a hard time finding a violent crime

In fact you will not find one, so these antis can't post up their anecdotal evidence or other weak arguments, they have to post up worthless emotional and ignorant rants.

[asdjrocky]

49. Don't be ridiculous, you're just looking for a fight.

If you think having roughly 100 people armed in a bar is a good idea, you go ahead and go, in fact take your Grandma and your kids.

I'll just stay away from that many idiots with guns.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

72. So you admit your fear is irrational and not based in fact. Thanks.

[PavePusher]

50. Nothing bad happened.

Except that a few pants-wetters got their utopian-fogged view of reality slighty cleared and it shocked them. Good, I say.

[Hoopla Phil]

54. What happened that was bad?

Open Carry member Brad Huffman says the group handed out brochures, but only if diners asked for them. He says the group spent more than $1,200 plus tips, and calls Pickerel's delayed decision "ridiculous."


There is no mention in the article as to WHY this reversal took place. I swear the quality of reporting these days is horrid!

[bertman]

5. It's obvious that he didn't grow up watching "Gunsmoke" like many of us did.

[xchrom]

7. Recommend nt

[Catshrink]

11. Arizona allows concealed carry in restaurants.

We're the Wild West. Californians are a bunch of wannabes.

[Name removed]

16. Deleted message

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[asdjrocky]

18. ...red roses too...

[cowman]

27. Nevada allows

us to open carry fully loaded and yet I don't remember wanting to pull my gun and start blasting and we are part of the wild west

[annabanana]

12. Who would've thought that large numbers of armed patrons

might discourage normal people from frequenting an establishment. . .you know, with kids & Moms in tow...
:shrug:

[aliendroid]

39. yeah, I can see this

People are afraid of armed people, you can't deny that. So I'm not going to call the restaurant owner a jerk, but as we are now going to move toward more gun liberty, maybe people need to start to realize they will start to see guns much more often.

[PavePusher]

52. Oh teh horrerrres!1!

Kids!1! Seeing gunz!1! Why, they'll need therapy for the rest of their lives!

And the rest of your post is flat-out mysoginistic.

Good day to you.

[aikoaiko]

14. Given the antihandgun ordinances out of SF, I'm not surprised area residents weren't ready for this

Its too bad, really.

[Techn0Girl]

15. I Live in Walnut Creek and really like the Buckhorn Gril.... But....

Great food and great prices but I would NEVER go there if there were a bunch of nuts hanging around displaying their weapons. I was unaware of this controversy until now. I'm glad they changed it. The moment I saw people carrying weapons I would have informed the management and if they refused to do anything about it I would have been an EX customer.

These sorts of stunt promotions attract the most radical and crazy of the crazies around and I definitely want to be someplace they are NOT.

[onehandle]

31. That's how most people feel.

They don't want people walking around with guns in front of their families.

It makes people uncomfortable. Even when there's a cop at a donut shop. You can see people glance at the black metal and squirm a bit.

But private citizens? That makes them even more uncomfortable.

Open carry people will continue their quest to anthropomorphize weapons, but they will largely fail, because these are guns, not benevolent symbols of righteousness.

G-U-N-S.

[Katya Mullethov]

41. So , in your opinion ......you feel

That when most people see a firearm on the hip of a policeman they squirm ?

I am curious as to what emotion you feel might cause an involuntary reflex like that ...... in most people .

[cowman]

44. Ohhhhhhhhhhhh

those "evil" guns :sarcasm:

[SteveM]

46. "You have become you're own enemy in the instant that you preach..."

"Open carry people will continue their quest to anthropomorphize weapons, but they will largely fail, because these are guns, not benevolent symbols of righteousness. G-U-N-S." So what is your point?

It seems you have done a rather bang-up job of anthropomorphizing yourself: "...glance at the black metal and squirm a bit." "They don't want people walking around with guns in front of their families."

The only one around here who is identifying human characteristics/behaviors to guns is you.

[rd_kent]

48. I see, its about "feelings" not rights. Got it.

[SteveM]

45. The controversy of guns in restaurants is the fall-back for gun-controllers...

They have pretty much been hammer-smashed in their legislative attempts to ban guns, so they have taken to playing tug-of-war with restaurants and open-carry advocates.

It's a mole hill issue that still allows this prohibitionist culture war to carry on -- with great detriment to the Democratic Party.
Personally, I don't care if someone in a restaurant openly-carries; I've seen it before. The reason I don't care is that in a crowded restaurant, in most states, there are at least one or two who are carrying concealed. You just don't know it.

Those who wish to ban open-carry from restaurants must necessarily rely on fear, deep-seated prejudice and stereotyping of the open-carry citizen; otherwise (if one is carrying concealed), how would one know whom to be fearful of, prejudiced against, and worthy of stereotyping?

On that latter subject, what makes you think, that those who carry in a restaurant are "...the most radical and crazy of the crazies...?"

[rd_kent]

47. Those people you are calling nuts are your neighbors. Why do you hate the Constitution?

Its the same document that protects your right to spew nonsense anytime you want.

[PavePusher]

53. I see you have issues...

with the peaceful exercise of Civil Rights. You are free to move elsewhere, I'll help you pack...

[Euromutt]

24. Well, that's 100 customers he's not getting back

Seems short-sighted to me; I know the open carry community communicates extensively on which establishments have welcomed them and which have shunned them, and they like to encourage the places that welcomed them by giving them as much custom as they can.

[MineralMan]

25. Also from the article:

"Open Carry member Brad Huffman says the group handed out brochures, but only if diners asked for them. He says the group spent more than $1,200 plus tips, and calls Pickerel's delayed decision "ridiculous."

100 people, $1200 billing. So, they spent an average of $12 each in the restaurant. Hmm...I suspect that any other 100 people would have doubled that, and without annoying the rest of the customers to boot.

[asdjrocky]

55. I was thinking the same thing.

What a bunch of cheap bastards. 12 bucks per person?

[MineralMan]

57. Well, it's not an expensive restaurant. I looked at the menu.

But I'd never get out of there for lunch with a $12 tab.

Besides, these people aren't going to be regular customers. They came in to make a point. They made it. They wouldn't be back, anyhow. The owner got complaints from people who ARE regular customers. He made a no-brainer decision. There it is.

[farmout rightarm]

59. If they wouldn't be back, why the knee-jerk reaction?

That's a REALLY stupid thing to do.
:eyes:

[MineralMan]

62. Ya know, it's this guy's restaurant, isn't it?

I guess he can make whatever decision he wants to about its policies. That's his right. It's his property. Everyone has rights, don't they?

You don't like his policy? Stay out of his restaurant. Isn't that simple?

Buy your own restaurant and then you can set your own policies. Leave this guy alone to run his restaurant however he wants to, OK?

[farmout rightarm]

64. I didn't say he was wrong, I said he was stupid.

...
\

[MineralMan]

66. I don't really care what you said. I don't own the restaurant.

You think he's stupid? Who cares what you think of him? It's his restaurant. He has a whole chain of them. He must be smart enough to know the restaurant business, eh?

You want an answer? I'm sure there's a contact link on his web site. Ask him why he made the decision. I'm sure he'll be glad to tell you.

Your argument is not with me. Go argue with the man who made the decision.

[cowman]

70. You are

absolutly correct. It is his place and his right to restrict guns as it is my right to go to a more gun-friendly restaurant and take my friends there too

[MineralMan]

71. I'm sure the owner's very concerned about your patronage.

[onehandle]

28. Good. You should have only so much lead in your food. nt

[aliendroid]

32. if you're going to rob a restaurant, remember in Buckhorn Grill you won't find much resistance

Not a big deal, some coffee shops allow it some don't, they open carry people can find a new restaurant.

[farmout rightarm]

58. Well, that's a relief...no criminal would dare set foot in a place with a sign saying 'keep out'

:eyes:

[MineralMan]

61. That's silly. Has this restaurant every been robbed at gunpoint?

I doubt it. You've made another non-argument that is easily seen through.

In the second place, open carry in California requires that the weapon be unloaded. It's the folks who are carrying concealed who are more likely to be able to respond to an armed criminal, not the guys with the empty weapon in their holster. They're not being kept out of the restaurant, because nobody knows they're carrying.

Open carry is just play-acting in California.

[farmout rightarm]

65. Probably nevery.

...

[MineralMan]

67. Nevery, huh?

Probably nevery will be robbed, either. Most places that are full of people don't get robbed. So, it seems like a pretty safe place to be. I'd eat there, open carry or not. In fact, the menu looked pretty good, so maybe I'll have lunch there next time I'm in the area.

[farmout rightarm]

69. Just be sure you spend over twelve bucks, or people will call you a piker.

;-)

[SteveM]

73. $12! That's big money in Austin. Sheeeesh. nt

[Name removed]

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