My solution to the health care crisis: use gun-grabber logic!

[Rabrrrrrr]

Just as the gun-grabbers/haters believe that making guns illegal will make them all disappear and end crime as we know it,

let us then just make it illegal to be sick.

Voila! No need for health care.

Sometimes I'm so smart I give myself goosebumps.

[rucky]

1. Goosebumps are a misdemeanor.

But your logic warrants a felony.

[Scout]

2. who believes what, now?

gun-grabbers/haters believe that making guns illegal will make them all disappear and end crime as we know it

link please, to something that actually says/means what you are claiming....

Sometimes I'm so smart I give myself goosebumps.

you are easy to impress, aren't you?

[Euromutt]

7. Any post by sharesunited fits the bill

But if that's not representative enough to your liking, how about this passage from the VPC's "about" page (http://www.vpc.org/aboutvpc.htm):

Each year, more than 30,000 Americans die in gun suicides, homicides, and unintentional shootings as a result of the ready availability, and accessibility, of specific classes of firearms.

(Italics mine.)
Implication: restrict the legal availability of these firearms, and the suicides and homicides in question will not take place.

From the Brady Campaign (http://www.bradycampaign.org/about/):

Q. Why is my financial support of Brady so important?

Because sensible gun laws save lives.

Implication (again): with fewer guns around, the suicides and homicides that currently occur with firearms will not occur at all.

Yes, I appreciate these are implications, rather than explicit assertions, but that, not to put too fine a point on it, is a result of the persons and groups in question tacitly acknowledging that the evidence isn't on their side.

There are quite a large number of countries with stricter gun laws than the U.S. that have higher suicide rates, thereby indicating that people who want to kill themselves will not be stopped by the lack of having a firearm available. The number of firearm suicides in America at most indicates that if a suicidal person has a firearm available, that is very often what he wil use. In the absence of a firearm, they will resort to hanging, narcotics, drowning, jumping in front of trains, you name it.

The Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence sidesteps the entire question by seeking to address only gun violence, and simply ignoring all other forms of violence. And in spite of their claim that the Campaign "believe<s> that a safer America can be achieved without banning all guns," the Campaign has a record on jumping on the bandwagon of any effort to restrict any type of firearm; not just handguns and "assault weapons."

Rabrrrr might be exaggerating a bit, but not by much, frankly.

[Scout]

9. failed to fulfill requirements of the request. n/t

[Euromutt]

11. I'll be sure bear your literal-mindedness in mind...

...the next time I see a post of yours alleging that pro-RKBA types want to arm every person in America whether that person wants it or not, or that gun owners (or any subset thereof) own guns to compensate for being modestly endowed, at which point I will gently remind you that your own standard of proof requires nothing short of direct, literal quotes.

Let's see if you can live up to it, or have the decency to keep your trap shut if you can't.

[Scout]

12. no one believes what the OP alleges...

Just as the gun-grabbers/haters believe that making guns illegal will make them all disappear and end crime as we know it,

and to say that people essentially believe in magic (that guns will "all disappear") and that anything at all would "end crime as we know it" is just despicable. in fact, if i said such a thing i'd be accused of being hysterical.

NO ONE believes that guns will disappear.

NO ONE believes that crime will end as we know it.

Your post does not prove the allegations made in the OP.

So you can just put up or shut your own fucking rude trap.

[Euromutt]

13. I see you subscribe to the Iverglas school of interpersonal relations

So, if "NO ONE believes that guns will disappear" and "NO ONE believes that crime will end as we know it," then what is the point of gun control legislation? Are you not, essentially, acknowledging the pro-RKBA's lobby's arguments that gun control legislation will only remove firearms from those who were unlikely to use them for unlawful activities in the first place, and leave the criminally inclined unaffected, except to provide them with targets incapable of shooting back?

And if it offends you that I've pointed out your failure to practice what you preach, well, fuck you.

[iverglas]

15. hmm, I wonder

So, if "NO ONE believes that guns will disappear" and "NO ONE believes that crime will end as we know it," then what is the point of gun control legislation?

What is the point of speed limits?

[Rabrrrrrr]

17. Speed limits are about behavior; gun control is about a physical, real object.

Surely you can understand the difference between regulating a behavior and regulating something that exists physically in this universe.

[iverglas]

18. keep spinning

What abject nonsense.

"Gun control" is about regulating behaviours -- acquisition, possession, use -- of firearms.

Objects can't read laws, you might have noticed. Or be punished for disobeying them.

[Rabrrrrrr]

21. "Spinning" - gee, that's a great way to begin a dialogue.

:eyes:

Fuck it. You show all the subtly and intention to engage in meaningful conversation of Palestine and Israel talking to each other.

[iverglas]

23. "begin a dialogue"??

You began your thread with crap. A monologue. One that would have prompted me to demand my money back, had I had the misfortune to have paid for the show.

[Scout]

20. 'cuz there's nothing in between the two extremes of wanting to take action

to reduce the risks and the possibility of harm, which is what most people are after, and the magical thinking that gun fetishists ascribe to others.

point out links to where i've actually said ANY of the things you claim. or take your lies, fold them 5 ways, and go fuck yourself with them.

[Euromutt]

25. Well, THAT didn't take long

Got any direct literal quotes from gun owners stating (preferably ones on this board) that they fetishize their guns?

[Scout]

29. you guys call people "gun-grabbers" so i can call people gun fetishists

if i want to.

[Euromutt]

32. Actually, I don't use the term "gun grabber" myself

Besides, it's not about what standards we set, it's about the standard of evidence you demand from the pro-RKBA types, which you then evidently aren't willing to live up to yourself. That's just a tad hypocritical, wouldn't you agree?

[Rabrrrrrr]

34. I don't call people "gun-grabbers". I call *specific* people "gun-grabbers",

specifically that specific subset of people composed of those people who want to make ALL guns illegal and confiscate guns that already exist.

And before you accuse me of speaking some other load of bullshit, let me be proactive and remind you that I am speaking SPECIFICALLY; that is, I am not calling ALL people gun-grabbers, nor am I calling all who are in favor of some sort of regulation gun-grabbers. I am - specifically - calling that specific set of people the very specific title of "gun-grabber", and ONLY that specific set of people.

And you accuse (very wrongly) ME of spinning stuff. :eyes:

Now, if you can find a *direct literal* quote in which I refer to "people" as "gun-grabbers", then I will, at my own expense, fly to your home and eat my hat in front of you.

Please don't take my SPECIFICS and make them GENERAL.

And feel free to call people gun fetishists all you want - you'll be wrong, since very few people, but I imagine that occasionally your accusation will be correct since law of averages means the moniker has to land on an actual gun-fetishist once in a while. The rest of them, however, might be upset with you for the false accusation.

[iverglas]

35. "I call *specific* people 'gun-grabbers' ..."

And the question remains ... why are you wasting your and everybody else's time doing that?

[Rabrrrrrr]

36. Because I find that having a taxonomy that goes beyond "it" or "that thing" to be helpful.

But then, I'm a scientist, so maybe I'm just stuck in some kind of awful and immoral paradigm of wanting to name things so as to more easily distinguish one thing from another when communicating with others.

Unfortunately, this kind of linguistic framework is inherited from our caveman ancestors, so it is will be difficult to eradicate.

I would think that someone who prefers direct literal quotes would understand the need for noun-specificity.

[iverglas]

37. fascinating

Don't actually understand plain English though, do you?

[Rabrrrrrr]

26. And any direct literal quotes from those directly literally self-described fetishists

that they directly and literally ascribe magical thinking to others? And might you then also have a direct literal list of the direct literal forms of magic which they are directly and literally ascribing?


Just trying first to figure out exactly what your preferred standards are before we actually engage in conversation. Like the diplomatic discussions that first need a round of discussions to decide how the ultimate diplomatic discussion is to take place.

[Euromutt]

30. Actually, I'll cop to the "magical thinking" bit

I'm pretty a few others on this board have used that phrase as well. But I deny having a firearms fetish.

[Scout]

31. if this isn't ascribing "magical thinking" to others i don't know what is

making guns illegal will make them all disappear

don't think too hard about it now, you might strain yourself

make them all disappear ... magical thinking ... make them all disappear ... magical thinking

[Euromutt]

33. Nope, sorry, doesn't meet your own standard of evidence

See, you're drawing an inference here, and while normally I'd have no problem with that, when you demand nothing short of direct literal quotes as the only valid form of evidence, inferences don't cut it.

[iverglas]

28. I guess we're still waiting for their "direct" "literal" quotations

Not much point in anybody wasting time producing counter-quotations to bullshit, is there?

My, they do spin.

[Rabrrrrrr]

16. Certainly according to some of the gun-grabber's hype, there is that belief.

Bullshit lines like "30,000 die from guns every year - so we must make them illegal!!!!" has within it an implicit promise that banning guns will keep those 30,000 people from gun-related injury AND from death; and the only way that could happen is if, therefore, the guns all magically disappeared, AND if crime somehow magically disappeared, because the constant refrain from the lying nutjobs is easily reduced to "The only reason there is crime is because guns are legal". A reductio ad absurdum, yes; but not absurd.

Sorry to burst anyone's bubble, but some of the rhetoric from the gun-grabber end of the political spectrum really is all magic and enchantment.

[iverglas]

19. "Bullshit lines like"

"30,000 die from guns every year - so we must make them illegal!!!!"

Hey, you got that right. That's a bullshit line all right.

Did it take you long to think it up?

[Rabrrrrrr]

22. Do you really think that there is no one who wants to make guns illegal?

Do you live in a different country? Because I can tell you, in the United States, there are certainly those who would love to make all guns and firearms illegal. Not many, not even amongst the gun control people, but they are real and they do exist.

[iverglas]

24. congratulations

I'll bet I can find you some people who want all restrictions on machine gun possession in the US, in fact any restrictions on the sale and possession of any firearms, removed. Right here among the regular denizens of this place, in fact.

Maybe I'll go start a thread about them that will leave me in hysterics at my own wit for the rest of the night.

Or I could just behave like a decent human being and not bother.

[Rabrrrrrr]

27. I'm sure you could find those people, and yes, you could start a thread.

Not sure why you think you can't.

You could even refer to them as gun-idolaters.

And it would be just as hilarious!

[spin]

3. You summed it up nicely. K&R (n/t)

[rrneck]

4. Hell, there's already a penalty. nt

[Rabrrrrrr]

5. I have no idea what that means, so either "Right on!" or "Screw you!"

:shrug:

:rofl:

Seriously, though, I have no idea what that means.

[Endangered Specie]

6. Think of your health insurance bill as a giant ass fine

[rrneck]

8. lol I frequently get both.

I think Endangered Specie beat me to the reply.

[JonQ]

10. People have been abusing their right to be sick for some time now

causing countless deaths and heartache. 100% of all deaths can be traced back to at least one improperly functioning body part.

If not for you then at least support this for the children.

It would be really fun to do the stats on this one, in the same manner the grabbers do gun stats. And present a big scare piece on it.

[iverglas]

14. "Sometimes I'm so smart I give myself goosebumps."

If I were that smart, I'd shoot myself.

:rofl:

Of course, I would already have choked to death on straw.