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“Obama's Mexico Mission: Keep Guns in el Norte “(Time)

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jody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-11-09 11:10 AM
Original message
“Obama's Mexico Mission: Keep Guns in el Norte “(Time)
Obama's Mexico Mission: Keep Guns in el Norte
But seven months into Obama's Administration the guns keep flowing south and show no sign of abating. Mexican government raids continue to turn up vast arsenals of brand-new firearms that can be traced to shops north of the Rio Grande. Another sign of the gangster's abundant supply of firepower is that they can afford to leave some weapons at murder scenes to avoid detection. Along with the river of guns, Mexico's bloodbath has deepened into the Obama era. Last month was the deadliest since Calderón launched a frontal offensive against drug cartels in 2006, with 854 drug-related killings. In total, more than 13,000 people have perished in massacres, beheadings and execution-style hits under Calderón — whom Obama has compared to the "untouchable" Elliot Ness for his fight against organized crime. (See pictures of crime-fighting in Mexico City.)

Obama concedes that one major problem in stopping the traffic is the strength of U.S. gun laws — and the gun lobby supporting them. Mexican officials have pushed for the United States to reinstate a Clinton-era ban on assault rifles. Such weapons — especially Kalashnikovs and AR15s — are behind the vast majority of Mexican gang-killings. Both types of guns have been sold widely in Arizona and Texas since the U.S. ban on sale of assault weapons was repealed in 2004. A 2008 Supreme Court decision reinforces the Second Amendment to the U.S. Constitution, making a future ban even more difficult. In his first visit to Mexico in April, Obama said apologetically that it was beyond his power to overturn that. "Assault weapons, as we now know here in Mexico, are helping to fuel extraordinary violence," he said. "Having said that none of us are under any illusion that reinstating that ban would be easy."

But perhaps Obama could also better use the resources he does have to stem the flow of firepower. His Administration has ordered new checkpoints with hundreds of Homeland Security Agents searching for guns heading south. However, such random stop tactics have had little impact on a border that stretches 2,000 miles from the Pacific to the Gulf of Mexico. Meanwhile, ATF agents who run the intelligence work that nets most convicted traffickers still complain about being overstretched. In the Phoenix area, for example, the ATF has only 20 dedicated firearms investigators for thousands of gun sellers; some shops don't get inspected for years. "The traffickers have very organized operations. Intelligence work and investigations are the best way to get at them," says Peter Forcelli, who runs the Phoenix firearms-trafficking group. A veteran of the New York Police Department, Forcelli says the scale of the problem in the southwest is overwhelming. "I seized more AK47s in my first week in Arizona than in 15 years in New York," he says.

Calderón will be especially keen to see new efforts on the U.S. side because a large chunk of the American money promised for Mexico has been delayed. Under the Merida Initiative, $1.4 billion was earmarked to help Mexico fight cartels over three years. But following accusations of Mexican army abuses — including torture, rape, and murder — the Senate has held back 15% of those funds until it can certify that Mexico is making efforts to clean up its human-rights record. Mexico's Congress this week issued a statement condemning this certification process. While American shops are arming the cartels, the lawmakers said, they have no right to judge the Mexican army for fighting back. "We can never agree with a foreign government unilaterally judging us in return for economic help to deal with a shared problem," said Rep. Tomas Torres.

Interested readers may consider Newark Mayor Cory Booker’s statement “There's federal law that says that criminals can't have guns and we should enforce that law and get guns off the streets nothing wrong with the Second Amendment.” See DU thread http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=118x246181
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Tim01 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-11-09 11:16 AM
Response to Original message
1. I have an idea, lets stop the drugs from flowing north too.
It is Mexico that doesn't want the border closed.
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-11-09 11:21 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. Better yet, LEGALIZE POT.
End the prohibition, and you end the crime connected to it.

Legalize pot, decriminalize hard drugs, and the drugs wars END.
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TPaine7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-11-09 01:16 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. Hey, that's logic.... no fair! n/t
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gorfle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-11-09 10:05 PM
Response to Reply #1
10. Just legalize it
You have a multi-billion dollar multi-national business in illegal drugs. When you cannot turn to the legitimate courts to settle business disputes, you operate outside the law. We see the results.

Make it legal. End the war on drugs. It's a waste of resources, completely ineffective, and causes far more harm than it prevents.
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benEzra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-11-09 12:09 PM
Response to Original message
3. Umm, AR-15 type rifles and civilian Kalshnikovs were NEVER BANNED
so reinstating the non-ban wouldn't do anything whatsoever. Especially since a lot of those assault rifles ending up in Mexico are NFA Title 2 police/military restricted guns that are not available on the U.S. civilian market to start with...
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TPaine7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-11-09 01:17 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. Fact use is uncivil and unfair. For shame! n/t
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X_Digger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-11-09 03:32 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. Neat graph from the study of AWB effectiveness..


The '88-'89 spike was the california 'ban', then the huge spike ahead of the '94 'ban'. (Notice the peak _during_ the ban, reflecting an almost 50% increase from right around the time of the ban.)
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Taitertots Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-11-09 06:29 PM
Response to Original message
7. Mexico has to reap what it has sown
They were not complaining when millions of Mexicans were flooding into America and pouring money back for them. They were not complaining when they reaped enormous profits off the narcotics they peddled. Now, they want to blame us, because they made Mexico into a narco state. Where are they at the border? Now, We have to spend billions trying to fight the drugs they are sending and give up our rights because they are a failed state.
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-13-09 09:23 AM
Response to Reply #7
13. That is all just so fucking WRONG.
Maybe there were millions of people crossing the border, and sending money back to their FAMILIES - not to 'Mexico' - but that was only because NAFTA devastated their economy, and people like to eat.

'Mexico' did not reap millions of the narcotics 'they' peddled. Some criminal Mexicans reaped enormous profits - the government (by definition in a democracy, the PEOPLE)lost billions in fighting those criminals. Not to mention something like 13,000 LIVES.

If Mexico is becoming a failed state, it is because of our WAR on drugs. If a government makes something that everyone wants illegal, the criminals will take advantage of that. That is nothing more than human nature.
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Taitertots Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-13-09 12:10 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. You will just do anything to blame us for Mexico's problems
Their economy is in the can, our fault
They are a failed state, our fault for refusing to accept their drugs.
They encourage mass illegal migration and wealth transfer, and its our job to patrol the border.
They can't be expected to do anything to the point that I should be expected to sacrifice my rights.


Is there anything going on in Mexico that the people of Mexico are expected to take care of themselves?
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-13-09 12:12 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. Yeah, you're absolutely right
and all them happy niggers was so much better off before Lincoln freed them.

Racist shit.
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Taitertots Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-13-09 11:15 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. That is all you've got
Can't attack the content, better scream racist and add idiotic shit.

The people of Mexico have problems. Many of those problems are caused by the people of Mexico, and the Mexican government. I'm not willing to give up my rights because the government of Mexico refuses to stop cross border trafficking.
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-11-09 07:14 PM
Response to Original message
8. The expired "AW" ban did NOT ban either AR-15s or semiauto Kalashnikov rifles
It forced manufacturers and importers to reconfigure those rifles to comply with the ban.

Ignorance on this issue runs wide and deep.
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gorfle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-11-09 10:02 PM
Response to Original message
9. Happy to dispel the illusion
"Having said that none of us are under any illusion that reinstating that ban would be easy."

Every time I write my check for my NRA dues I smile knowing I'm helping dispel those illusions. :)
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Redneck Socialist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-11-09 10:11 PM
Response to Original message
11. So Mexico's inability to control its criminal gangs is Obama's fault?
Yeah, OK, whatever.

His (Obama) Administration has ordered new checkpoints with hundreds of Homeland Security Agents searching for guns heading south. However, such random stop tactics have had little impact..."


Oh wait, the Obama administration is doing something. What do you know? Mayhap the guns aren't coming from the north?
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Euromutt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-12-09 07:28 AM
Response to Original message
12. "Fighting back"?
But following accusations of Mexican army abuses — including torture, rape, and murder — the Senate has held back 15% of those funds until it can certify that Mexico is making efforts to clean up its human-rights record. Mexico's Congress this week issued a statement condemning this certification process. While American shops are arming the cartels, the lawmakers said, they have no right to judge the Mexican army for fighting back.

What an interesting notion, first that torture and rape constitute "fighting back" against the cartels, and secondly that the U.S. government has no right to criticize the Mexican government because the narcotraficantes are managing to do something illegal on the U.S. side of the border. By that logic, the Mexican government has no talking room either, given the illegal stuff the cartels get up to in Mexico itself.
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