Casing-code issues snag (California) handgun law

[slackmaster]

By James P. Sweeney

U-T SACRAMENTO BUREAU
2:00 a.m. August 10, 2009

SACRAMENTO – Two years after California passed a novel law requiring the next generation of semiautomatic handguns to leave a microscopic identifying code on shell casings, the controversial technology appears no closer to being introduced here or anywhere else.

California Attorney General Jerry Brown has not certified the law, which is required before it can take effect as scheduled on Jan. 1, and his aides could not say when that may happen.

Other states expected to follow California's lead instead have pulled back, waiting in some cases to see what happens here. Similar federal legislation has failed to find any political traction.

Gun manufacturers continue to question the readiness and potential cost of the technology, known as microstamping or ballistic tagging. Regardless, they say, other safety standards unique to California are stopping most companies from introducing handgun models here....

slackmaster comments: This is exactly what I said would happen. The technology is not only unproven, it's owned by a single entity. Even if they figure out a way to make it workable, it will be defeated so easily as to render it useless as a crime-fighting tool.

Full copyrighted article at http://www3.signonsandiego.com/stories/2009/aug/10/1n10guncodes235322-casing-code-issues-snag-handgun/?uniontrib

[michreject]

1. To a gun grabber

since when did efficiency and effectiveness matter when it came to feel good gun control laws.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

2. Wont work for several reasons:

A) One company has a monopoly on the technology that enables a constitutional right.
B) It can be defeated with a fingernail file.
C) Simple firearm wear rendered the microstamp ineffective
D) Revolvers (aka cheap handguns) are a staple chioec for gun crime... they do not eject shells @ the crime scene.
E) All the shooter has to do is drop brass picked up at a local scene to shade the crime scene with several serial numbers.

Microstamping is a pipe dream. Even in a world with 100% perfect firearm registries, microstamping would be a tremendous failure.

[slackmaster]

3. On point E, that would also cast suspicion on innocent people

Who didn't pick up their brass after target shooting.

[spin]

6. At the indoor range that I used to shoot at...

if the brass went forward of the firing line, you couldn't retrieve it. (The range master would hit the roof if he noticed you using a broom to pull the brass back behind the line.)

Of course, we did it when he wasn't watching. You often retrieved other peoples brass along with yours.

[formercia]

23. Brass is worth good money

I'm cheap. I reload.

[spin]

25. I did for many years...

still have the equipment.

I was shooting at an indoor range and a blood test revealed that my lead content was very close to being serious. I stopped reloading and it dropped to a far more reasonable level.

If I take up reloading again, I'll use a brass tumbler to clean the brass and wear gloves while handling it. I definitely will not smoke or eat while reloading. Note: I never did smoke when powder was in the room. I use a single stage press so much of the reloading could be accomplished without any powder near.

[formercia]

26. A lot of ranges now require lead-free primed ammo

Lead-free primers are available at a modest premium. The primer is the major contributor to aerosolized lead.

I do all my shooting outdoors, so it's not much of a problem.

[spin]

27. It's far better to shoot outdoors...

often if large urban areas this is difficult if not impossible. (Without driving a considerable distance.)

It's amazing how contaminated an indoor range can become.

[michreject]

29. NO primers are available anywhere

It's been dry since the 1st of the year.

[spin]

30. Damn! (n/t)

[X_Digger]

4. K&R

The same claims were made about ballistic fingerprinting in 2000 in NY/MD. For as little as $50, you can replace the barrel on many handguns (1911: http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/cid=710/k=/t=S/mfg=/Products/1911-Barrels). This isn't a particularly complicated procedure, as you remove the barrel for normal cleaning. Since you can have a part delivered to your front door via fedex that changes the 'fingerprint', it's authoritative value is small.

Most firearms owners that I know (none of whom are gunsmiths) could render this moot in under an hour with a firing pin ($20) or barrel ($50-$100) swap.

[Statistical]

5. Microstamping is a little different than ballistic fingerprinting.

Ballistic Fingerprint = looking at the marking left by barrel on the round with the intent of identifying the weapon used. It is an utter failure. Maryland has a ballistic fingerprint database for 10 years now and to date has resulted in a single conviction. One conviction at a cost of tens of millions of dollars. The jury likely would have convicted even without the ballistic data.

The problem is that ballistic "fingerprints" are not exactly like human fingerprints and often the weapon can't be identified or the wrong weapon is identified. In FBI testing sometimes the wrong MODEL is identified via ballistic fingerprinting.

So because BF sucks so much the gun grabbers moved to Microstamping which uses a modified firing pin to stamp a code onto the brass. If fails for the obvious reasons.

So the two are not the same but both are worthless.

[spin]

7. File the firing pin, change it or use an older weapon...

do the people who voted for microstamping have ANY common sense?

[virginia mountainman]

8. They answered that qestion, when they voted "YES" on it. NT

[Statistical]

9. No I think the law is proof of that.

Most people have no idea how complex items work.

From firearms, to internet, to nuclear powerplants the general public is mostly clueless.

They rely on politicians & special interest groups to do the heavy lifting for them.

Sometimes that works and sometimes not so much.

If you had a bill to ban hydrogen-dioxide and phrased it right I think the masses would pass it into law.

[valhalla]

19. Dihydrogen Monoxide is a health threat though.

Thousands die from inhaling it every year.

[TheWraith]

10. They have no understanding of the technology.

It's like the people who think that a GPS receiver can be tracked by satellites. They don't know how the technology works, so they can't offer an informed opinion.

[proteus_lives]

18. That was my first thought too.

It won't work for shit.

[X_Digger]

11. *nod*

I know it's different, but replacing the barrel and firing pin (possibly extractor) would negate a microstamp that touches a casing hard enough to leave an identifiable impression. The article mentions firing pins and 'one other location – within the firearm and positioned so that they transfer onto each cartridge as it is fired.'

The other thing that I can see happening is using steel cased ammo (Wolf, etc) that's harder and less likely to take a transfer.

[Euromutt]

31. Another problem with "ballistic fingerprinting"...

... is that, as more rounds are fired through the weapon, wear and tear occurs and the markings the gun leaves on the cartridge case are changed. This holds true for ballistics in general, and the upshot is that ballistic matching can work if the firearm hasn't been fired very much between the crime in the question and the time the gun was recovered.

With a "ballistic database," which contains a cartridge case from very early on in the gun's life, the "fingerprint" very rapidly becomes outdated. Even calling it "fingerprinting" is a major misnomer, given that human fingerprints don't get altered every time you use your hand to do something.

[Jackson1999]

12. Under an hour?

Try 10 seconds with a sharpening tool.

[X_Digger]

14. I was being generous :)

Assuming firing pin swap in a 1911 by someone who's never done one.

Barrel swap? ~45 seconds

[Jackson1999]

13. Of course, Police weapons are exempted from this in the Cali. law

If the technology adds minimal costs and is so accurate, then how come police weapons are exempted?

[slackmaster]

15. It's kind of twisted, but here is my take on it

The microstamping bill expands California's definition of "safe handguns", which implies that any handgun that does not comply is unsafe in the eyes of the state.

If police were required to use only certified "safe" handguns, their options would be limited. And if they ever shot someone with an "unsafe" handgun they could be sued. The exemptions in the laws protect them from that possibility.

The whole idea behind most California gun laws is to limit peoples' choices. The authors want to eventually ban all firearms from non-government use.

[SteveM]

34. Who are the "authors" of this bill. What is their connection with gun-controllers? (nt)

[Israfel4]

16. All this law would've done is trace back to who had the ammo/firearm LAST

How is that going to catch a criminal when they normally STEAL firearms and now ammo??? If this had been implemented.

[rrneck]

17. Trying to regulate them out of existence. nt

[Endangered Specie]

20. Handgun manufactures should consider doing what Barret firearms did..

and refuse to sell to any government agency in California.

[michreject]

21. STI did the same thing

I own 4 STI's. Wish I had a Barrett. I do have a T-shirt though. :)

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

24. 4 STI's? Now that's a chunk of change.

I Demand Pictures! :D

[michreject]

28. My STI's

Rangemaster in 9mm



Edge in 40. My Limited gun.



Edge in 45. My Limited 10 gun.



My Trojan. Bought from Tripp. Use for Single Stack or carry.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

32. Nice USPSA rigs!

I only use a plain S.A. 1911-A1 Laoded Black'n'Stainless for Single Stack and Glock 19 for production. Both are factory stock and carry guns - but I am saving up for a CZ-75 TS in .40s&w, best limited gun for the price imo.

I usually place top 3 in production and 1 or two in SS - too bad .45 is soo expensive right now or I'd only shoot SS.

[michreject]

33. I reload.

I have four presses. :)

I'm only shooting in Revo Division. I have a 5" 625. Carmonized. I am a CRO in USPSA. I shoot every Sunday from April until November.

Edit to add:

I want the CZ SP-01.

[formercia]

22. Tool mark identification has been around for generations

The slide face,chamber, extractor and firing pin leave unique marks on the fired cartridge case.

This non-technology has been proven in many court cases and remains valid. The best part is that it's free.

[spin]

35. Good point. (n/t)