Beauty salon owner should have guns. Lots of guns.She might need them.

[Tim01]

http://www.fbi.gov/page2/may09/ms13_050109.html

A COURAGEOUS VICTIM
Taking a Stand Against MS-13

After MS-13 gang members robbed a Houston beauty salon at gunpoint last January and sexually assaulted a salon employee, one of the gang members went a step further: he took the owner’s picture so he knew exactly who she was. If she thought about going to the police, he said, she would be sorry. The owner was also told that from now on, she would be expected to pay $100 a week to the gang for “protection.”

“What happened to this woman—robbery and extortion at the hands of MS-13—is not unusual,” explained the agent in charge of our Houston Gang and Violent Crime Squad. “But her response—to stand up to the gang—was very unusual.”

Though she feared for her life, the salon owner called the local police instead of paying the extortion money, and was put in touch with our MS-13 task force. She had made a smart—and brave—decision.

An MS-13 member arrested in the Houston salon robbery and extortion plot displays the gang affiliation tattooed on his back.
An MS-13 member arrested in the Houston salon robbery and extortion plot displays the gang affiliation tattooed on his back.
MS-13, whose formal name is Mara Salvatrucha, is one of the largest Hispanic street gangs in the United States. According to the 2009 National Gang Threat Assessment, there could be as many as 50,000 MS-13 members worldwide, with 10,000 members in the United States. The gang is known for its highly violent ways, and members are involved in all kinds of illegal activities, including drugs, robbery, extortion, weapons trafficking, and murder.

Larger gangs exist in Houston, our agent there said, but MS-13 is of particular concern because members are often heavily armed and well trained in the use of weapons and assault tactics.

Victims are usually so scared of MS-13 that they would rather pay extortion money than risk retribution. In Latin America, where MS-13 originated, such extortion schemes are common.

That is why the Houston salon owner’s story is so remarkable. Despite her fear, she was also angry that the same crimes she saw in her native El Salvador were happening in the United States. So she came to us with security surveillance tapes in hand that showed the robbery and the faces of several gang members who had participated.

In a recently televised segment on MS-13 produced by the Spanish-language network Univision, the salon owner recounted her ordeal. "They threatened to kill me,” she said of the gang members. “And I am very afraid for my life and my family.” But she came forward, she said, because “I like to work and fight for what I want."

Salon owner. Obscured image provided by the Univision Network Limited Partnership.
"They threatened to kill me,” the salon owner, shown here in a television interview, said of the gang members. She called police instead of paying extortion money.
About a week after the robbery, with the owner refusing to pay protection money, two gang members drove by the salon and sprayed 17 bullets into the front door, shattering the windows of cars parked along the street in the process.

But thanks to the surveillance tape of the robbery and the salon owner’s cooperation, it didn’t take long to round up the gang members. In all, seven people were arrested, and six handguns and one shotgun were seized. The gang members face state charges of aggravated robbery—which can carry long prison sentences in Texas—and the possibilities of federal charges as well.

“This case is proof that victims of crime should not suffer in silence,” our agent said. The salon owner, currently under the protection of the FBI, “was courageous to stand up to gang members, and as a result those gang members are now in jail.”

And because of this case, other MS-13 extortion victims in Houston have come forward, our agent said. “If victims contact us, we can help.”

[gorfle]

1. She's lucky she's not dead.

Video cameras are no match for guns. She's lucky she lived long enough for the footage to be submitted.

[HALO141]

57. You can't extort money from dead people. n/t

[Demobrat]

2. It was very selfish of her

to call the police instead of buying an arsenal and fighting the gang on their terms. If everybody does that, how are gun manufacturers supposed to profit from the violence?

[Tim01]

3. That isn't the point at all. I'll explain it to you.

The point is that the gang that raped her employee and threatened her is extremely vengeful and violent. She has to run her shop with her employees without a police officer standing there to protect her all day long. As a result of her going to the police gang members are probably going to come by and try to murder her in her shop, maybe her employees too.
She is brave and has my respect. But she is in very deep shit now. There is a good chance someone will try to kill her,and maybe her family too.

[Pullo]

4. Her and her employees should all get CHL permits pronto

[HALO141]

58. Agreed. But at the rate things are going now...

it'll probably take around 9 months for the licenses to actually be issued. Last I talked to her there was only one person at DPS to do the background checks and, as you might imagine, they're experiencing a huge increase in applications. I believe they were trying to add staff but I don't know if that's happened as of yet.

[Demobrat]

11. So the answer is

for her to buy lots of guns and ammo to shoot the bad guys. That way, no matter who gets killed, the gun manufacturers profit. Okay, got it, thanks.

[tisfortomi]

12. And the answer is...

"So the answer is for her to buy lots of guns and ammo to shoot the bad guys. That way, no matter who gets killed, the gun manufacturers profit. Okay, got it, thanks."

Or the police could guard her around the clock. (Of course, they're armed too, which is damned inconvenient because we don't want the gun manufacturers to profit from this.) You say the police don't do that? OK, never mind.

Then we'll have the Brady Campaign hire armed guards for her so she won't have to arm herself, but only if the guards can be armed with weapons from non-profit gun manufacturers. (And since the collapse of the Soviet bloc, there are precious few of those.) The Brady Campaign doesn't do that either, you say? OK, never mind again.

I guess she'll just have to leave town. The bad guys win.

[Demobrat]

14. The bad guys won a long time ago.

The bad guys won when guns became easier to get than cigarettes. Nobody is safe, and the only answer is ... wait for it ... buy more guns. Works for the gun companies. And that's what counts.

[virginia mountainman]

15. You can think that...

Most of us in here don't...

[Tim01]

16. You are too emotional to think.

No point in continuing this with you. You are afraid of guns.
This story could be about swords or sticks or fists. And it still wouldn't be about any of those things.

It is about a group of violent criminals who are willing to rape, rob,extort, and kill some females who work in a beauty salon.
And one owner who is brave enough to go to the police in spite of threats against her. An owner who has probably condemned herself to death by going to the police.

[jmg257]

17. What's wrong with gun companies being successful? There would be no guns to buy, otherwise.

The more companies there are in business, the cheaper the prices, and the better the products to choose from.

Jobs, competition, innovation, selection...

Nice.

[Demobrat]

18. And what a tragedy that would be.

How would the poor guys born with small, um, barrels ever compensate?

[Hangingon]

19. Wow, the thread got to penis size on the 18th posting

I read these "penis" postings and wonder. I bought a pickup and I didn't notice a size increase. I bought a good size boat and again no bigger. I bought a pistol and I am still normal size. How does it work? These things are metal and can't be eaten. I am not sure what to think. If I sell any of these thing will I shrink down to the size of Dimobrat?

[Tim01]

22. People who are afraid of guns are always thinking about penis.

As per their posts.

They probably also spend time crying, and watching Oprah.


Beauty salon owners have more pressing problems.

[SteveM]

68. Yeah, the dumb ones always start feeling you up first (nt)

[jmg257]

20. Not sure....don't have that problem.

Maybe they date women with small hands???


How would you handle it?

Curious now - do you have much experience comparing all those barrel sizes?

[Demobrat]

23. Enough experience to avoid gun owners like plague.

The bigger the gun the smaller the barrel. Now, I'll save you the trouble of making another homophobic comment by mentioning that I'm a woman.

[jmg257]

24. I realize you are a woman...it was a "slut" comment, not a 'homophobic' one.

(the '...brat' gave it away)

And OK, you say you have tons of such experience.

Apparently just not the right kind though....a little unlucky in all those selections, huh? ;)



And thinking now...maybe you should worry more about STDs then plagues?

:hurts:

[Demobrat]

28. Of course it was.

Homophobia is not okay. Misogyny is though.

[jmg257]

31. Don't be shy now. It's your experience, & so educational when you share your...peculiar insight.

You were probably very popular.

[Demobrat]

33. Still am.

I don't bother with cowards who are afraid to go through life unarmed anymore, though. It's so unmanly.

[jmg257]

36. I could see how that would be a downer - cowardice AND a small winky is

probably not a good combination to look for in a man.

Besides all the sleeping around, you would likely end up supporting his wimpy ass too.


Glad you were finally able to get passed all those guys, here's to hoping you will have better luck with the next ones!

:toast:

[dairydog91]

26. Holy profiteering corporations, Batman!

If you've bonked enough men to carry out a scientific study of how gun ownership relates to penis size, then a whole bunch of evil corporations (Penicillin manufacturers and Trojan Condoms come to mind) have probably made a bloody fortune from your activities.

[pecwae]

54. Since I'm a gun owning woman

I suppose it's 'penis envy' in my case, eh?

[SteveM]

69. Yet, here you are, no?...

There ain't nothing like a woman, while bitching about bitching about penis metaphors, making a charge of homophobia. Clean yourself up, dear.

[Abq_Sarah]

71. If you're a woman, perhaps it's time for you to stop

Behaving like some spoiled little argumentative child.

You came here into this forum and deliberately insulted every single member who supports the Constitution with your misandric comments.

[virginia mountainman]

21. *Groan...

We are talking about women defending themselves.... And you make a penis comment??

I guess you are not ready for the idea that a woman can defend herself, how very conservative of you.

[NewMoonTherian]

27. Godwin's Law of gun debate.

No less reliable and no less intellectually pathetic. You could have handled this discussion a dozen different ways, but you chose a string of quips that a middle schooler would be embarrassed to make. You certainly aren't helping sway opinion to the side of gun control.

[Demobrat]

29. I'm not trying.

It's too late for that. The gun nuts have won. They won a long time ago. Just ask the beauty shop owner.

[dairydog91]

30. What does she have to do with gun nuts?

I guarantee you, three or four young MS-13 punks with knives could kill her quite effectively. They might very well be considering that option, since she embarrassed them by refusing to cop to their demands. How would this situation be any safer for the woman in a gun-free utopia?

[Demobrat]

32. She is living in fear

because these gang members are armed to the teeth. With guns. You know, weapons with no purpose except to kill - from a distance. Her fear, not to mention the death of every innocent victim killed in this country on a daily basis, is a direct result of the lack of gun control in this country. All that's left now is to acknowledge that those lives are of less importance than gun company profits. I don't know how anybody can be against gun control and have a problem with that.

[X_Digger]

34. Ahh, the 'no true scotsman'.. nice. n/t

[Tim01]

35. You would prefer she die than arm herself and survive. Just admit it.

[Demobrat]

37. I would prefer that she do exactly what she did.

She's not dead yet, which I think was the point of the article.

[Tim01]

39. You would prefer she die when MS-13 returns,instead of getting a gun.

And they will come for her.

[dairydog91]

40. Actually...

I think she'd rather live in a fantasy world where MS-13 thugs are harmless without guns. A world where knives, bats, and other such weapons only inflict Hollywood flesh wounds, and only guns are evil enough to actually kill.

[Demobrat]

43. You actually think that

the answer for this woman, who probably has never handled a gun before in her life, is to go and buy guns for herself and her employees, and what? Take a few lessons? So she can chase after the car that sprays her shop with bullets and take out a rear tire? Or, better yet, shoot the thug in the face when he walks in the door? Who do you think will be quicker on the draw? Her or the thug? Sure a good shootout at the Curl & Crop would would make a great story, but the truth is that more guns are not the answer for her. Getting the thugs with their arsenals off the streets is the answer.

[dairydog91]

45. Of course it would be a better solution...

And if only we could have replaced Hitler's armies with legions of prancing ponies, we could have prevented World War II! MS-13 members are scum, and if we let them rule the streets they will be immensely harmful whether or not they have access to a particular class of weapon. I'd rather focus on the dirtbags, thank you very much.

[Demobrat]

48. How is suggesting that a small business owner

arm herself with the means to engage the dirtbags in a gun battle focusing on the dirtbags?

[dairydog91]

55. It's not.

But if an arsonist was threatening me, I'd make sure my smoke detectors were all set, even if the police were pursuing the arsonist.

In this case, the gun would probably help her if they went after her with hand-to-hand weapons. It might help her if they come after her with guns (Generally it's a good idea to bring a gun to a gun battle). The actual solution, such as it is, is for her to leave town or for the police to round up all MS-13 members in the area.

[Tim01]

47. Just admit it already. You would prefer her dead to her being armed.

The real life, real time situation is that the gangster took her picture and promised to murder her if she went to the police. She went to the police. MS-13 will not tolerate this insult.

She can run, but she has chosen not to.

She can stand her ground armed or she can stand her ground unarmed. But they will come to kill her.

And you would prefer she die unarmed, instead of possibly surviving with the help of a gun.

Just admit that you think a dead person without a gun is morally superior to a live person who has one.

[Demobrat]

49. Oh please

If these guys come for her, what do you think they'll do? Walk in and ask for a perm? Ever heard of a drive-by? They'll pull up, blast a few hundred rounds into the store and squeal away like the cowards they are. Stand her ground ... oh sure. Anyway, if she wants to buy a gun, more power to her, she might as well, everybody else has one. I just don't believe that a gun is the answer for her. And apparently, judging by her actions, neither does she. That false sense of security isn't for everyone, and of course she has no need for macho posturing.

[Tim01]

52. You are uneducated and emotional.

So I have started a new thread to end this endless conversation.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=118x221069

[HALO141]

60. Please just stop it with the sanctimony.

The loss of innocent life is more important than your own convenience. I suggest you look to your own skewed priorities before you go wagging your finger in others' faces and making sweepingly broad statements that you can't support.

Thanks much.

[dairydog91]

25. Chances are that a gun would be the best tool for the salon owner...

My points:

1. MS-13 are a nasty bunch of SOBs
2. The police can't set up 24/7 patrols around her home and business.
3. Advanced, effective hand to hand combat takes a long time to learn.
4. A thug in his late teens or early 20s has an extremely good chance of overwhelming a woman through physical force. Several thugs are almost certain to do so.
5. If there were no guns in the US, this woman's life would still be in danger (See point 4).
6. While point 4 remains true, a 9mm round will kill or incapacitate a young tough, regardless of who fires the round.

I'd say this woman should be buying a gun for self-defense. If guns were totally unavailable, she might be in even more danger.

[beevul]

38. Bwahahahahaha..Jeez I can't stop laughing.

"The bad guys won when guns became easier to get than cigarettes."

That is in addition to being one of the most - if not THE most - ignorant thing I have EVER seen written on DU, also probably the single funniest thing I have ever seen posted. Anywhere.


I mean...

Well, tell you what:


Name ONE SINGLE TIME IN AMERICAN HISTORY, where guns were HARDER to get than they are now.


Just one.



We'll wait.


P.S. Don't drink the brady kool-aid.

[Demobrat]

44. Oh please. If I wanted a gun

I'd go to the local bar, put in an order and get one. So would you. And that's assuming we couldn't get one legally, or make it to the gun show at the weekend.

This country is awash in guns, legal and illegal and any 14-year-old who wants one can either get one out of daddy's nightstand, ask his best friend or get on the internet.

Anybody who wants a gun in this country can get one. And you know it.

[TheWraith]

46. Please try actually buying a gun that way.

Seriously. You'll find out that guns are nowhere near as easy to get as you imagine they are. They are certainly not easier to get than cigarettes no matter what line you've been fed by alarmist bullshit artists.

[Demobrat]

50. I live in SF and work in Oakland.

I guarantee you I could have a gun by day after tomorrow if I wanted one. Tonight if I wanted to take a drive.

[SecularNATION]

51. What else could you get?

No doubt, you could score some drugs, as well. Making them illegal didn't get them off the street, and neither will banning guns. Guns are a fact of life in the United States and that will not change anytime soon. And, your overly emotional and juvenile attitude toward guns and gun owners, and your foolish name calling and childish references to penis size especially won't change it. So, if the woman is going to stay, wouldn't it be better for her to be armed, than not? No one is saying that will automatically protect her from harm, only that it will give her a somewhat better chance.

[Demobrat]

56. Where did I mention making guns illegal?

Learn to read. It's too late for that. Much too late. You and the your ilk have won, you won a long time ago. We are all at the mercy of the gun gangs, and the blood of every single innocent victim of gun violence is on your hands. But hey, as long as your hands are the ones with the guns in them, who cares, right?

[SecularNATION]

70. Not at all.

No. Blood is NOT on my hands. Just as no blood, from the victims of drunk drivers, is on my hands because alcohol is legal. And, I CAN read, thank you. I can read statements like "I don't know how anybody can be against gun control" and "arsenals off the streets" and get a general idea of what you'd like to see happen. You've made your feelings very clear.

[pecwae]

53. No kidding?

Think I could get a Glock 19 with Tac Rail laser for a couple of packs of Winston's in your area?

[HALO141]

62. Right? It'd be worth the drive. n/t

[SteveM]

67. So, you really don't care about the victims of armed gangs, right?

[virginia mountainman]

13. Seems like you are saying..

That a woman to be raped, or murdered, is morally superior to one, that chooses to purchase a gun, to protect herself and her employees...Because *GASP* a gun manufacturer MIGHT profit??


How unbelievably cold, and callous can someone be?!?

WOW....

EDIT: It is clear to me, just WHO the morally reprehensible one is.

[HALO141]

59. Thank you for your

mature and thoughtful addition to the discussion.

[SteveM]

66. The answer is to neither romance nor enable the crim to game the system...

She reported the crime to the police and armed herself. You think she should have done..... what was that...?

[tularetom]

5. Unless she plans to sit by the door all the time, the guns won't help

First of all these assholes are more experienced in the use of firearms than this beauty salon owner.

Secondly there are a lot more of them. She might be able to get one or two of them if she deprives them of the element of surprise. But in an exchange of gunfire she doesn't stand much of a chance.

And obviously the police are of no help in situations like this.

I have a lot of admiration for this brave woman. But I fear for her future.

[Tim01]

10. A gun would give her a better chance than no gun.

And if she is vigilant there is a good chance she would see them heading toward the door, or scoping the place from her car.
But yeah, her best bet is probably to immediately move out of the area and not come back. There is no shortage of these creeps, and they will probably keep coming for her until somebody gets her.

[Hoopla Phil]

6. This reminds me of the watch maker/repair guy that wound up having to close

his shop. After he had been in about 5 gun fights in his store and killed several gang members he became an initiation target for gangs. He now works by appointment only and no longer has a store.

[imdjh]

7. On the bright side...

If all these little assholes were to get tattoos, then the police could just round them up and shoot them. Maybe Texas ought to offer free tattoos a couple of times a year, and the parlors could simply call in the names of people who get MS 13 tats.

[HALO141]

63. It'd be easier if the cops just set up their own tattoo fair.

1) Put tat on dumbass
2) Delete dumbass.

No fuss, no waiting.

[Pullo]

8. I think the "Minutemen" need to refocus their efforts

[jody]

9. Govt must protect each citizen before it spends a $ of taxpayer money to protect any corporation.

"Capt. Richard Phillips, skipper of the Maersk Alabama, told the Senate Foreign Relations Committee that it was the 'responsibility of the U.S. government' to protect any ship flying an American flag, through military escorts or onboard squads of highly trained security forces."

If a self-defense is an individual's responsibility, IT SURE AS HELL IS A CORPORATION'S RESPONSIBILITY!

:grr: :nuke:

[dairydog91]

41. Unfortunately, it's rather difficult for private corporations to arm their crews.

You can carry quite a lot of stuff in international waters, but you have to obey national regulations when in a port. Since many countries refuse to allow merchantmen to be armed with anything more than popguns, it's very difficult to arm crews. Personally, I think putting a few Miniguns on each cargo ship would be a great idea, but I'm not in charge.

[jody]

61. "Unfortunately, it's rather difficult for private INDIVIDUALS to arm themselves" in other countries.

[dairydog91]

65. That too. nt

[Taitertots]

42. Send MS-13 to gitmo

We should be waterboarding these people.

I think if you get arrested and have an MS tattoo or admit afilitation they should send you to gitmo, then after they feel they waterboarded them enough, death penalty. We are not going to stop these people sitting on our hands.

[HALO141]

64. Takes too much time, bro.

These assholes need to go via the most expedient rout. I gotz things to do!

[joshcryer]

72. Threads like this are why I don't come here anymore.

:rolleyes: