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UTUSN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-31-08 09:13 AM
Original message
Sales of assault weapons to A-holes in Texas TRIPLE "because" OBAMA might win
Oh, it's also because they expect prices to go up and they will sell them for a profit later---, well, then, nevermind!1


*******QUOTE*******

http://www.newschannel5.tv/2008/10/29/1000501/Guns-Sale...

Guns Sales Up in Texas


Wednesday , October 29, 2008

Shop owners Say election the cause

DALLAS - This morning, guns sales in Texas are on the rise. Sales for some assault rifles have tripled. Gun shop owners say the reason is the presidential election.

Gun shop owners say customers are afraid if Barack Obama gets elected he will ban assault weapons. Obama said President Bush made a mistake when he let the ban expire. Now gun shops are seeing more business.

Johm Mannewits is the manager of the Target Master Gun store in Dallas. He says, "I had a customer today who came in and bought an AR-15. He said he'd always wanted one and he was afraid if Obama got elected there wouldn't be anymore."

Earlier this year during a debate, Obama said he still supports the second amendment, "but just because you have an individual right does not mean that the state or local government can not constrain the exercise of that right."

Gun shop owners say if Obama is elected they expect prices to go up. That means some people are buying right now to get good deals. Others are investing and hoping to sell guns after the election for a profit.

********UNQUOTE*******
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rucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-31-08 09:14 AM
Response to Original message
1. They must be terrified. n/t
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Mojorabbit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-31-08 09:17 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. The NRA
has sent out multiple pieces of scare literature this year. It seems another one comes each day to my house. They are in hysterics that Obama might get elected. They have really gone over the bend. I have never seen anything like it.
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rucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-31-08 09:18 AM
Response to Reply #2
6. If the fear weren't there, the NRA would have no reason to exist.
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old mark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-31-08 10:57 AM
Response to Reply #6
17. Republicans run the anti-gun organizations such as
Handgun Control, etc, and make their living by demonizing the Democratic Part to the gun owning GOP. The amount of fear and anger they generate is hard for a lot of people here to understand, unless (like me) you are Democratic gun owner who posts on some gun oriented sites.
They are beside themselves that Biden - who supported the old AWB bill - will join with Obama to confiscate all guns in house to house searches by military and police teams. The NRA puts out tons of lies like this, and the "gun control" organizations claim to be linked to the Democrats, even though they are not, so the Dems get the blame.

This is a real pack of lies. All the organizations on both sides really care about is power and money.

mark
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-31-08 09:36 AM
Response to Reply #2
11. All McCain has going for him (at least here in Cali) are the NRA and pro-lifers
The Obama campaign is making absolutely brilliant use of technology and organization, recruiting Californians to make GOTV calls to people in contested states.

McCain has nothing.
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Bernardo de La Paz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-31-08 09:18 AM
Response to Reply #1
4. They are. There is hysteria at freerepublic.com and raptureready.com.
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rucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-31-08 09:25 AM
Response to Reply #4
8. May their fear and anger last them 8 years.
They'll feel even worse than we felt under Bush.
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lazer47 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-31-08 09:17 AM
Response to Original message
3. I am buying mine because it isn't over with yet
MCpain and Paleface still could pull it out,,,,,
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lib2DaBone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-31-08 08:31 PM
Response to Reply #3
66. Very True..... Ready and willing
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leftofcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-31-08 09:18 AM
Response to Original message
5. They are saying that at the guns shops here too
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Scriptor Ignotus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-31-08 09:22 AM
Response to Original message
7. 23% of Texans think Obama is a Muslim
this is not a surprise.
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TornadoTN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-31-08 09:25 AM
Response to Original message
9. Yeah, the gun shops here are running with this meme
Quite funny too. They all have signs out front that say "Get your AR before the ban!" or some other variation of that scare tactic. People are rushing as fast as they can to buy them up - and the gun shops are jacking the prices up knowing full well that this craze is going to fade very soon.

I even had a guy offer to buy my AR at the range one afternoon. The reason? Scared that Obama was going to take them all away from us.
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Fire_Medic_Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-08 01:11 AM
Response to Reply #9
76. The AWB is in the party platform which doesn't help matters.
Joe Biden has consistently stated his intent to pass a new AWB. I'm going to buy an 18.5 inch barrel and put it on mine before January.

David
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-31-08 09:34 AM
Response to Original message
10. The term "assault weapon" has no legal meaning under federal or Texas state law
Edited on Fri Oct-31-08 10:09 AM by slackmaster
But increased sales of any kind of firearm that someone in Congress is trying to get banned is par for the course.

Here is what the expired federal AW ban left as its legacy:

- Dozens more manufacturers making AR-15 type rifles and other semiautomatic firearms that take detachable magazines,

- Millions more of the formerly "banned" firearms, and millions more people owning them,

- Greatly strengthened organizations of politically aware gun rights supporters who make good use of technology.

If the goal of the gun-grabbing movement is really to reduce the number of certain types of firearms in civilian hands, it's been an epic failure. Heckuvajob there, monkeys.
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marmar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-31-08 09:38 AM
Response to Original message
12. It's time to quote Mike Malloy.....
"Have I said how much I hate these people?"


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aikoaiko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-31-08 10:00 AM
Response to Reply #12
14. Which people?
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marmar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-31-08 10:05 AM
Response to Reply #14
15. Right wing a-holes and NRA extremist gun nuts......
n/t
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Codename46 Donating Member (66 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-08 01:49 AM
Response to Reply #15
80. What have gun nuts ever done to you?
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SteveM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-04-08 12:26 PM
Response to Reply #15
137. I was on the range last week and couldn't tell which were RW "a-holes...
Edited on Tue Nov-04-08 12:26 PM by SteveM
and extremist gun nuts." Do you have any specific profile characteristics so we can inform the police and have them picked up?
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aikoaiko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-31-08 09:59 AM
Response to Original message
13. Well I'm buying more guns (ARs) &mags because I worry that I won't be able to buy them in the future

Obama supports reauthorizing the AWB and now we have the House and Senate.

Obama's support for the AWB is the only thing that I don't like about his campaign.

I'm hoping Obama and Senate/House leaders will actually keep the reauthorization from coming up beacause it was a disaster for Clinton in 1994.


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yodoobo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-31-08 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #13
22. hopefully, that loophole will be closed
The 1994 ban was totally ineffective because it allowed people to continue to sell and buy the weapons.

All manufacturers did was go on a mass building spree and build up a massive inventory the weapons to sell during the 10 years.

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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-31-08 02:56 PM
Response to Reply #22
29. Actually, manufacturers were able to COMPLY with the 1994 ban by making minor modifications
For example, the Colt AR-15 was modified to have no bayonet mount and no threaded muzzle. It was renamed the "Sporter" and could be sold brand-new during the ban.

All manufacturers did was go on a mass building spree and build up a massive inventory the weapons to sell during the 10 years.

You are thoroughly misinformed.
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yodoobo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-31-08 04:18 PM
Response to Reply #29
37. But thats just symantics.
The fact is that these weapons now had pretty names like "sporter", but were essentially the same.

Its pointless where we call it comply, or call it evade. The fact remains that the weapons continue to flood our streets.

During the 10 years, assault weapons with pretty names like "sporter" continued to be sold. "pre-ban" weapons with the previous names ALSO continued to be sold.

Very little changed.

The first AWB was a complete failure. I hope we get it right next time.
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-31-08 04:28 PM
Response to Reply #37
40. The Colt Sporter complied with the letter of the law in every way
The fact is that these weapons now had pretty names like "sporter", but were essentially the same.

What it means is that the "ban" addressed irrelevant characteristics of the firearms, like bayonet mounts, threaded muzzles, and conspicuous pistol grips.

The fact remains that the weapons continue to flood our streets.

Rifles of all types are used in less than 3% of crimes in which a firearm is involved.

The first AWB was a complete failure. I hope we get it right next time.

That is a naive and dangerous position to take. Getting it "right" would have devastating political costs to our party, and little if any offsetting benefit to public safety.
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Pavulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-31-08 04:29 PM
Response to Reply #37
41. Just punish the poor..
people with money buy legal class3 weapons as individuals or corporations. Just like they get ccw permits based on political donations and straight cash. Think you cant get a ccw in NYC, think again.

So by banning replicas you just drive up their price. More people are stabbed that die from assault rifle (scurry lookin rifle) shootings.

Fixing root cause is owed to the many victims of crime in the US. That is harder than banning hicaps and black rifles so dont expect shit in the way of that any time soon. I hope we do something.
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tburnsten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-08 09:30 AM
Response to Reply #37
94. How much research have you done?
Bet it isn't much. Rifles of any type are used in less than 3% of homicides with a gun, and since "assault weapons" are generally always rifles, they must be involved in less than 3% of homicides as well. I'm not sure the exact number, because the FBIs crime data does not make idiotic distinctions between model of rifle, but I would bet they aren't all the rifles used.
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Pavulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-31-08 04:23 PM
Response to Reply #22
39. cosmetic ban was a ruse to fool the ill-informed
did nothing to stop crime and nothing to impact real "machine guns" which have been regulated for 70 some years.

It did trick people into thinking the government was doing something useful to fight crime.

Saved them the trouble of addressing root cause, which is still untouched.
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Codename46 Donating Member (66 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-08 01:43 AM
Response to Reply #22
77. Right, because disarming innocent people protects innocent people.
/sarcasm.
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krispos42 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-02-08 02:35 AM
Response to Reply #22
111. Which one of these is an "assault weapon"?
All three of the these rifles take detachable magazines, not shown, that look similar to the magazine for the M-16/AR-15 family of rifles. All three shoot the same ammunition, .223 Remington.



A.







B.







C.


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dkofos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-31-08 10:06 AM
Response to Original message
16. The good news is they are buying American made goods. The bad news is
weapons are one of the few things still made in America.
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ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-31-08 10:59 AM
Response to Original message
18. Not a problem: Just strap an grenade launcher on your side review mirror
and be packing some rifles and shotguns when you're vacationing in Texas. ;)

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SteveM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-04-08 12:30 PM
Response to Reply #18
138. That reminds me! It's deer season, here. Thanks(nt)
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yodoobo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-31-08 11:09 AM
Response to Original message
19. Any buyback program should only pay what they originally paid
Edited on Fri Oct-31-08 11:09 AM by pending
In the event of a renewed assault weapon ban, any buyback program will only pay what they paid (maybe less).

It would be crazy to reward weapon speculators.

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aikoaiko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-31-08 11:52 AM
Response to Reply #19
20. Woah there. Are you actually suggesting that Obama & colleagues would actually take away our guns?
Edited on Fri Oct-31-08 11:52 AM by aikoaiko

I think the speculators are assuming that any so called assault weapons ban will still be allowed to bought and sold on the open market (with all federal and state laws applying of course).

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yodoobo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-31-08 02:07 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. only machine guns
Edited on Fri Oct-31-08 02:12 PM by pending
Obama is pretty clear on the issue of assault weapons and I totally agree with him on it.

Of course I wouldn't advocate taking them away either. Hardly, they should be bought back.

Shotguns, hunting rifles and safe handguns probably are protected by the 2nd amendment, so its probably a dead issue to do anything about those. Besides I think that Obama is quite clear that he supports the 2nd amendment as it pertains to sportsman weapons.

But there's no protection, nor need for assault weapons. No one needs a machine gun.

Yes. Those should be banned and the government compensate owners fairly for them.]


edit to add: It wouldn't be much of a ban if they are to continued to be bought and sold. That was a big problem with the last ban. Obama is to smart to let that loophole slip through again.

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NickB79 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-31-08 02:29 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. I guess it has to be repeated: Assault rifles are NOT machine guns
Assault rifles are semi-auto only, just like millions upon millions of hunting rifles and shotguns.

It has been illegal to manufacture new machine guns in this country since 1986.

The 1994 AWB had NO effect on machine guns.

Legal machine guns have been HEAVILY regulated since 1934.

I actually hunt with my AR-15. So does my uncle.
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yodoobo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-31-08 04:12 PM
Response to Reply #23
36. The first AWB was admittedly ineffective.
It didn't ban fully automatic machine guns, nor did it ban the buying and selling of semi-auto machine guns either. Not to mention the banana clips that continued to be sold with abandon during this time.

No, manufacturers stocked up and then continued to sell them during the 10 year window. Private dealers also sold them during the 10 year window. Apparently, from this story, private dealers are planning to do the same again when the next AWB is passed.

And I do hope it is passed. I hope it it passed with loopholes removed from selling and buying them and loopholes removed that apparently exempt semi-auto machine guns as well.

Just the other week, some poor kid was killed as result of these things still being on the street at a semi-auto machine gun "meet".

Look, we can get tongue-tied all we want on terminology and technical specifications. The reality is that these weapons need to go.
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-31-08 04:31 PM
Response to Reply #36
42. Please learn about this subject before you start blathering about it
Edited on Fri Oct-31-08 04:35 PM by slackmaster
Fully automatic firearms have been strictly regulated since 1934. Their use in crime is so rare that it is a non-issue.

Apparently, from this story, private dealers are planning to do the same again when the next AWB is passed.

There is no such thing as a "private dealer". Anyone who deals in firearms must have a Federal Firearms License and whatever is required by his or her state.

... semi-auto machine guns...

The terms "semi-auto" and "machinegun" are mutually exclusive.

Just the other week, some poor kid was killed as result of these things still being on the street at a semi-auto machine gun "meet".

Wrong. That was a machinegun, and it wasn't "on the street".

Look, we can get tongue-tied all we want on terminology and technical specifications.

The subject is inherently technical.

The reality is that these weapons need to go.

The first step is to figure out what in fuck's name you mean by "these weapons". Without that, you will just continue to flail around impotently.

If you really think there is something out there that needs to be regulated that isn't already, you have to clearly define both that thing and the reason(s) it should be regulated.
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plaintiff Donating Member (418 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-31-08 05:39 PM
Response to Reply #36
47. It is my sad duty to report that you do not have the first clue what you are babbling about.
Not even.
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sl8 Donating Member (256 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-31-08 07:50 PM
Response to Reply #36
64. You're right not to get hung up on terminology and technicalities.
If I could guarantee you a world free of semi-auto machine guns, would that satisfy you?
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jmowreader Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-31-08 09:45 PM
Response to Reply #36
71. THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A SEMI-AUTO MACHINE GUN!
I have to yell here...a machinegun is a weapon that only fires in full-auto mode.
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AtheistCrusader Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-08 01:44 PM
Response to Reply #71
132. Correction.
A select-fire weapon with burst, or full auto modes is a Machine Gun. Essentially, for the purposes of the law, any weapon that fires more than one round per pull of the trigger is a Machine Gun. Whether that be a 3 round burst, or the whole mag.

That said, I don't think the person you are responding to has a clue.
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pipoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-08 05:43 AM
Response to Reply #36
81. Here my friend, watch this
if you want to discuss this topic it is pretty important that you have at least a basic understanding of the subject. What you are saying is equivalent to McSame trying to speak intelligently about computers when he hasn't the first clue about them. Again take 11 minutes to watch this completely non NRA, informative video by a San Jose, CA police armorer, an LAPD armorer, and the director of the Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco Firearms and Explosives.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HTjBxW6Df_A
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boozepusher Donating Member (152 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-31-08 02:35 PM
Response to Reply #21
24. The second amendment isn't about hunting.
Shotguns, hunting rifles and handguns will kill you just as dead as a so-called "Assault weapon".

By the way, what is a "safe handgun"?
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-31-08 02:57 PM
Response to Reply #21
30. Yes, you are indeed misinformed
But there's no protection, nor need for assault weapons. No one needs a machine gun.

Oh for fuck's sake, you don't have the slightest idea what you are talking about.
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spin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-31-08 05:31 PM
Response to Reply #21
45. Please watch this video to explain the difference...
Edited on Fri Oct-31-08 05:37 PM by spin
between the weapons banned by the Assault Weapons Ban and true assault weapons.

A police officer and firearms instructor made this video. Let me assure you that the video is educational and well worth your time. After you watch it, you should understand why there is such a controversy about the reinstatement of the AWB.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YjM9fcEzSJ0

A video such as this is better than a 500 word post.




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yodoobo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-31-08 05:48 PM
Response to Reply #45
52. Honestly I think theres too much focus on technicalities
Edited on Fri Oct-31-08 06:13 PM by pending
and were getting away from the focus of safety.

I promise however I'll take a look at the video.

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spin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-31-08 06:11 PM
Response to Reply #52
56. Thanks, if you watch the video please reply with your comments. (n/t)
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Codename46 Donating Member (66 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-08 01:45 AM
Response to Reply #52
79. That's the convenience excuse for ignorance
You will always fear what you don't understand.

Not making any effort to understand it won't help either.
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pipoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-08 05:56 AM
Response to Reply #52
82. It is a very, very technical subject,
technicalities must be considered especially if you favor these types of ban legislation. Why was the 1994 assault weapons ban completely sterile? Because the people who wrote it and supported it were essentially clueless about the subject or were just trying to produce legislation to make people who were clueless about the subject feel safe/good. The result? Legislation which did absolutely not one single thing in terms of societal safety but cost Dems election after election for nothing.

Technicalities are extremely important.
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AtheistCrusader Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-08 01:45 PM
Response to Reply #52
133. How can you possibly suggest legislative action on a subject you have no clue about?
I mean seriously.
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lumberjack_jeff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-31-08 06:30 PM
Response to Reply #21
60. You're suggesting that machine guns are currently available and legal? n/t
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Codename46 Donating Member (66 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-08 01:44 AM
Response to Reply #21
78. Do some actual research before spewing wrong information.
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Howzit Donating Member (918 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-08 06:09 AM
Response to Reply #21
83. "No one needs a machine gun" - what about a sniper rifle?
I am much more afraid of a clown with a single shot rifle who knows how to use it, picking people off from a distance. He has effectively "left the scene of the crime" and can keep this up for a long time.

If you say, why yes, sniper rifles should be banned, there goes your average hunting rifle.

It is not the tool, but the mind and the motivation that matters.
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Pavulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-08 11:34 AM
Response to Reply #83
99. It is quite difficult
to fire a rifle and hit a person moving. Try taking a helium filled balloon to the 300m line and take a few shots at it.

There are far more sophisticated ways to kill people that have been used since the 60's.

And yes it is concerning.
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Howzit Donating Member (918 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-08 05:22 PM
Response to Reply #99
102. I am not about to give advice on how to ensure success
Edited on Sat Nov-01-08 05:28 PM by Howzit
Lets just say that when a target moves toward you or away from you, it's speed doesn't matter very much.

Again, if someone has the mind for it, they can find a method. Controlling the tool does not affect the motivation.

If there is fear of what others have in mind for you, it is best to address that directly rather than seek to deprive them of one tool or another that they might use against you.

The very fact that some politicians seem afraid of the people is in itself a red flag - the AWB is evidence of that fear. You may disagree with the last statement, but why else would there be so much political capital spent trying to ban rifles that are rarely used by criminals?
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tburnsten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-08 09:35 AM
Response to Reply #21
95. Assault weapons cannot be machine guns
Because the ATF has a vested interest in making sure that any firearm which can be regulated under the NFA is regulated under the NFA, so they include in their definition of machine gun any weapon which can be easily made to fire more than one round per pull of the trigger. They count anything that could possibly become a machine gun as a machine gun, which makes manufacturers extra careful to make sure their products cannot be illegally converted to a full auto weapon.


What are "safe handguns"? I don't think I know of a single model of modern handgun that is "dangerous", other than to someone standing at the wrong end when it is fired.
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SteveM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-04-08 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #21
139. Do you know the diff. between "full auto" and "semi-auto?" Do you care? (nt)
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Vektor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-31-08 02:44 PM
Response to Original message
25. Paranoid fools.
Whatever. I'm sure the gun shops are spreading this stupid propaganda to boost sales and take advantage of the gullibility of the frightened Freepers.

And the dumb-asses are eating it right up. *sigh*
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boozepusher Donating Member (152 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-31-08 02:48 PM
Response to Reply #25
27. I'm not sure you can call it paranoia
Renewal of the Assault Weapons Ban is part of the Democratic Party Platform.
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-31-08 03:11 PM
Response to Reply #27
31. 90% of people feeling the need to own one of these weapons
fit the definition of paranoid.
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boozepusher Donating Member (152 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-31-08 03:35 PM
Response to Reply #31
32. You're painting with a pretty broad brush.
Many owners of these rifles, such as myself, don't feel a need to own one. I have a want. We as Americans have the freedom to own things, not just because we need them, but for any reason we want. Like I stated earlier these so-called assault rifles are no different than the average hunting rifle except in looks.
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plaintiff Donating Member (418 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-31-08 05:40 PM
Response to Reply #31
48. Strange how some people think the Bill of Rights ends after the First Amendment.
:puke:
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-31-08 05:44 PM
Response to Reply #48
50. Stranger still how some people are so whack that they feel they think they need or want
Edited on Fri Oct-31-08 05:44 PM by depakid
an assault weapon- and will go to any length to defend their fetishes, paranoia and obsessions.
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plaintiff Donating Member (418 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-31-08 05:46 PM
Response to Reply #50
51. Strange how some people are so whack they need or want to express their
opinions. I guess REAL TRVE DEMOCRATS are past that sort of silly shit these days. Who knew?
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-31-08 05:52 PM
Response to Reply #51
54. Ah, "the no true Scotsman" fallacy
Haven't seen that one in awhile.... ;-)
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plaintiff Donating Member (418 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-31-08 06:12 PM
Response to Reply #54
57. No doubt since you don't know what it means. You might be interested to find that over half of DU
members (according to many polls over the years) own guns and support the Second Amendment. I'm sure they will all be gratified to be a part of your "90 percent are paranoid" Frist-like assessment.
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-31-08 06:27 PM
Response to Reply #57
59. No sense arguing over assault weapons with someone who implies half of Du
Edited on Fri Oct-31-08 06:32 PM by depakid
supports their proliferation.

Nice try with the strawman- like most of obsessed, you've plenty of fallacies in your bag to toss out, and few rational arguments.
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-08 08:26 AM
Response to Reply #59
87. There is even less sense arguing over "assault weapons"
When so many people have no clue what the term really meant. (Past tense used intentionally; the term now has no meaning in federal law.)
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Tejas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-08 10:24 AM
Response to Reply #59
96. speaking of STRAWMEN, use deceptive rhetoric much?
plaintiff: You might be interested to find that over half of DU
members (according to many polls over the years) own guns and support the Second Amendment.


depakid (that's you): No sense arguing over assault weapons with someone who implies half of Du supports their proliferation.




Funny, I don't see "assault weapons" mentioned in the post by plaintiff.
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Codename46 Donating Member (66 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-02-08 03:57 PM
Response to Reply #59
120. What's an assault weapon?
Explain it to me w/out using Google
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Tejas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-08 09:09 AM
Response to Reply #50
90. STRANGER THAN ALL OF THAT, is
criminals prefer them too!

go figure!

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krispos42 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-02-08 02:26 AM
Response to Reply #50
110. For self-defense purposes...
... I want an "assault weapon".


I am more than happy to hunt with a bolt-action gun. I've done it a few times and felt at no disadvantage using one.

However one would not be my first choice for self-defense. I want features designed with tactical use, not sporting use, in mind.

I personally think a bayonet-tipped semiautomatic M1 carbine loaded with hollowpoint bullets in a 30-round magazine and fitted with a tactical flashlight would make a jim-dandy tool for fighting intruders in my home.

But that's an evil, evil assault weapon, even though it has a wooden stock and no protruding pistol grip.




I think what really bothers you is that there are people out there who have spent a lot of time thinking about and discussing the best tools to kill people with. It distresses you that people think about that stuff in a calm, rational, and dispassionate manner. You don't understand it and it scares you. You think it's an outdated relic of some dick-swinging macho caveman era, has no place in modern, civilized society, and must be attacked and destroyed whenever possible.
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minavasht Donating Member (353 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-31-08 08:35 PM
Response to Reply #31
68. And what do we call people who are afraid
of gun owners?
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Fire_Medic_Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-08 01:05 AM
Response to Reply #31
73. 100% of the people who want to ban them are scared little ninnies, since we are making up stats.
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benEzra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-08 02:55 PM
Response to Reply #31
100. Umm, you're talking about the most popular civilian target rifles in the United States.
What, exactly, scares you so much about a small-caliber, non-automatic civilian rifle with (gasp) a handgrip that sticks out?

OMG. The handgrip sticks out. God save us all. :sarcasm:
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SteveM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-04-08 12:40 PM
Response to Reply #31
140. I have never purchased a firearm because I "felt the need"...
I purchase a firearm because I "feel the need" to hunt and to secure better protection.

Actually, I am looking at an AR-15 as a possible hunting weapon. It has cammo, a shroud-like cover over the barrel, is made of synthetic material, in .260 caliber and is semi-auto. Is this suitable for non-paranoid use?
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lumberjack_jeff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-31-08 06:31 PM
Response to Reply #27
61. Welcome to DU. n/t
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boozepusher Donating Member (152 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-31-08 06:56 PM
Response to Reply #61
62. Thanks!
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Vektor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-08 06:47 AM
Response to Reply #27
84. If one believes in the myth of the "gun-grabbing Democratic boogey-man"
Edited on Sat Nov-01-08 06:51 AM by Vektor
then they are indeed paranoid. There is no such animal.

It's a propaganda tool created by the right wing to frighten the militia compound types into voting for Republicans even though there is no good reason for anyone who is not CEO of an oil company to do so.

Since the birth of this nation, we have had many Democratic presidents, and nobody has lost their right to own a gun. (Provided they are a law abiding citizen, of course.)

"Gun rights" are not going anywhere.

FWIW, I do not believe in infringing upon gun owners rights, at all, and I sincerely believe that it is a myth that the Democratic party platform has any interest in doing so either.
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Fire_Medic_Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-08 10:24 AM
Response to Reply #84
97. Your history is quite wrong.
The residents of DC and Chicago come to mind as US citizens who have had their right to own guns taken away.
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Vektor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-08 03:42 PM
Response to Reply #97
101. Mine's not wrong, but yours is very selective.
Edited on Sat Nov-01-08 04:18 PM by Vektor
The laws to which you are referring are a ban on handguns, not all guns. The ban in Chicago was passed in 1981, and the one in D.C. in 1976, so 27 and 35 years ago respectively - in two cities out of this entire vast nation. By contrast I could bring up every city that does not have a handgun ban, to prove the "threat" of successful gun grabbing is not really an issue.

Local legislation passed by individuals who are likely not even serving as elected officials anymore, hardly equates to the party as a whole, today, being responsible for those two isolated cases.

Not that I agree with those bans, mind you, I already stated I do not support that, but I can clearly see that the Democratic party of today, as a whole, is far less interested in confiscating the firearms of law abiding private citizens than the RNC makes them out to be, in order to serve a political agenda based on scare tactics.

Two decades old handgun bans passed by lawmakers who are no longer in office does not make the mythology perpetuated by the RNC true.





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Fire_Medic_Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-08 08:25 PM
Response to Reply #101
104. Then why was the District and Chicago so upset by the Heller decision.
To say that the current DC and Chicago officials aren't in the same mold as the gun grabbers of yesteryear is just false. I never said the whole party, lets not forget the AWB of 1994, granted it didn't take away anyones guns. The AWB is in the current party platform I don't know how that is mythology.

David
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Vektor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-08 10:31 PM
Response to Reply #104
105. It's likely a mater of perception then.
I really don't see a huge threat here. You apparently do. A tiny minority of "gun grabbers from yesteryear" hardly constitutes a huge threat from the party as a whole right now, as far as I'm concerned. To you, a few rogue individuals (who had their say decades ago) in a giant party is more of a big deal than it is to me. (Please remember there will ALWAYS be a few "bad apples" in every group, or those who do not "fit the mold".)

To say a few folks with radical views = the whole party thinking that way IS a myth. If it were the truth, we'd see far harsher legislation in way more areas.

RE: The AWB of 1994. That was a long time ago too - one piece of legislation, regarding a very limited number of weapons, which has EXPIRED - that is in no way, shape, or form "the "current party platform." The current party platform appears to me to be more about health care, economy, the environment, etc.. The "guns, God, and gays" wedge issues are blessedly taking a backseat to the things we SHOULD be talking about. FWIW, the Republicans are scissoring away women's reproductive rights far faster and more prolifically than Democrats are touching gun owner's rights, and that to me, is a much greater threat.

Also, if you are so convinced that all Dems are on board with those few over-the-top individuals, and this is a huge issue for you, why are you posting at DU? I'm not sure if I understand where you are coming from.
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Fire_Medic_Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-08 11:07 PM
Response to Reply #105
106. Renewing the AWB is in the party platform.
I think it's a stupid issue to lose votes over. The AWB had zero effect on crime. I find it stupid to push legislation that cost us votes and has no effect on crime. From Renewing America's Promise the 2008 Democratic Platform "We can work together to enact and enforce common sense laws and improvements like closing the gun show loophole, improving our background check system and reinstating the assault weapons ban" That doesn't really seem like a perception problem to me. Feel free to go here and read it yourself.

http://www.democrats.org/a/party/platform.html

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Vektor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-08 11:36 PM
Response to Reply #106
107. I'm not disagreeing that it's an issue.
I'm disagreeing that it is an issue that is not worthy of the hype it gets from both sides. I agree that the AWB had zero affect on crime. I think there are far more effective ways to combat crime than banning certain types of weapons.

What I said is that it is not THE party platform - there is way more to the party platform than just that one issue, and I'm not entirely sure it is the first issue that Democratic legislators will be inclined to address. The difference in perception is how important, or how much of a threat this notion really is, and how many it will affect - and in what way.

It IS a stupid issue to lose votes over, and it's also stupid, in my opinion, to even give this issue all that much attention, period. Whether you support, or oppose the ban, it is one of MANY laws that our legislators will grapple over. The effect it will actually have on the quality of life of most of Americans is negligible when you compare it to the economy, health care, etc. It's a mater of quibbling over semantics, and a pissing contest between those who don't want to be told what to do, and those who want to do the telling.

Do I agree with the AWB? No, not really. I agree with the notion of trying to curb violence of any kind, but AWB is a little too short-sighted to be of any help. Do I think it is an effective piece of legislation? No, again. Would I cast a vote for a certain candidate, or not, because of it - once again, no. Do I think that the extreme right parlays the perceived threat of the renewal of the AWB into a smear and fear campaign claiming that Dems will be banning all guns, and going way overboard with the whole "nanny" concept? Yes. That's why I reject that knee-jerk sort of thinking. They are blowing the issue way out of proportion.



I'm inclined to think that anyone who would claim to reject the entire Democratic platform, and vote Republican over the perceived threat of having one type of weapon banned would never vote Democratic anyway. I'd also be inclined to suggest that while I will never agree with any politician 100% on every issue, that some issues are more important than others, and the AWB just isn't the most important thing to think about. If a ban on assault weapons is actually somebody's #1 issue to think about, I'd really have a hard time understanding why, with so many other things at stake in the grand scheme of life. But, to each their own.


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Fire_Medic_Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-08 11:45 PM
Response to Reply #107
108. And what I said from the beginning was that it was IN the party platform.
Bill Clinton credited the AWB for costing us congress in 1996. Just so we are clear this issue is in the Gun Forum at DU, many of my posts can be found in the Health Forum also as it is another topic that interests me, if there was an Emergency Preparedness or a Golf Forum I would post those places. I don't see the need to tell people they don't belong here because they disagree with me. But, to each their own.


David
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Vektor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-02-08 01:36 AM
Response to Reply #108
109. No need to be oversensitive.
Edited on Sun Nov-02-08 01:44 AM by Vektor
I never said that you "do not belong here" - not even close, and if you genuinely gleaned that from this exchange, then you have clearly misread me.

I thought we were having a civil exchange here - I simply asked you where you were coming from on this issue, because I wanted more information on your position. I never told you that you do not belong. There is no need to take a tone with me for engaging in a discussion with you - if we are "being clear here" - you were the one who addressed my post which was a general observation, but not aimed at you at all. You chose to start an exchange with me, and now you are becoming defensive, and suggesting that I singled you out? That simply did not happen.

And yes, thanks for the remedial review of the forum list, but I am well aware that this is the gun forum. (However, this post was originally in General Discussion when I first responded to it.) And we were talking about guns, as would be expected. The funny thing here is, I never even disagreed with you. We have the same opinion on gun laws, the only difference, is that it is not my #1 issue. :shrug:
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Fire_Medic_Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-02-08 06:04 AM
Response to Reply #109
112. You have a short memory.
You wrote, "if you are so convinced that all Dems are on board with those few over-the-top individuals, and this is a huge issue for you, why are you posting at DU?" Feel free to point me to another comment to another specific poster in this thread in which you question their intentions and motivations for being here. You made a comment "Since the birth of this nation, we have had many Democratic presidents, and nobody has lost their right to own a gun." I simply pointed out that there were a lot of people in DC and Chicago that would say your assertion is incorrect. There are only a handful of people at DU that are single issue voters in regards to guns and I am certainly not one of them, but to dismiss them all as paranoid fools that don't belong here is intolerant and ignorant.

David
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Vektor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-02-08 02:47 PM
Response to Reply #112
118. Oh, enough.
Edited on Sun Nov-02-08 02:56 PM by Vektor
This is getting childish.

You are going to milk this to death, insistent on playing the victim, even though you engaged ME, and I was nothing but civil. Asking you a question does not, in any way, shape, or form, equate to saying "you don't belong here." I don't speak in riddles and I have, by all accounts, a good grasp of the English language. If I wanted to say "you don't belong here," I'd use that exact phrase. You wouldn't have to twist yourself in knots to milk it out of an innocuous question. It would be clear.

I explained in very plain english that I wanted more information on your position, yet the MORE civil I become in order to ease your increasing sensitivity, the more defensive and accusatory you become. I think it's a game for you at this point, because the civil exchange thing is not working for you, despite the fact that I haven't even actually disagreed with you.

Please stop repeating those claims over and over, it's very disingenuous. You are no longer even discussing the firearms issue, you are just accusing me of picking on you, in an increasingly more defensive tone with each post.

Nor did I ever question your motives or intentions - but if you point out another poster on this thread who has come back five or six times to challenge me repeatedly using the exact same misleading language then maybe you will see me having "be clear" with them too, or asking them where they are coming from with it. That is hardly uncivil.

If you seriously think that me AGREEING WITH YOU on nearly everything you said is "dismissing you, questioning your intentions and motives" etc, you really need to develop a thicker skin.

I'm bored with this exchange to be quite frank - I don't play the whole cat and mouse thing when somebody is feeling defensive and unable to handle an adult discussion. You are taking this way too personally, to the point of twisting my words in order to claim to be "under attack" when that is just not so.

You go ahead and think what you want and I'll do the same, including maintaining that if someone really believes that the Democratic party is going to show up en masse on folks' doorsteps to confiscate each and every gun from each and every American, and will run wailing to the ballot box, armed only with that ridiculous fallacy, they are indeed paranoid and foolish, because it is simply not true, to believe otherwise IS deranged.

Luckily, there are only a tiny handful of such people in this country, and they are all posting their drivel at Free Republic, not here.
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Fire_Medic_Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-02-08 05:18 PM
Response to Reply #118
121. Just being honest sorry if you can't take it, take care of yourself.
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Vektor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-02-08 05:56 PM
Response to Reply #121
122. Oh, you too Dave.
Best of luck to you.
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Fire_Medic_Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-02-08 07:10 PM
Response to Reply #122
123. Likewise.
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rl6214 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-08 01:36 PM
Response to Reply #105
131. Have you actually READ the DNC platform
I have and the AWB is in there.
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Tejas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-08 06:23 AM
Response to Reply #101
126. since you love to discount selectivity
I live in Texas, can I walk into a Wallyworld in the state of Illinois and buy a single .22 round?


Why not?



This bit of yours that the "glass is half full" is hilarious and exactly one of the ploys used by the Brady campaign, and it shows in your lack of knowledge on the subject at hand.
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Citizen Number 9 Donating Member (878 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-02-08 11:17 PM
Response to Reply #84
124. Dude, the anti-gun crap is pretty deep in the Party
Maybe folks don't realize how it weakens us. If we could just get rid of this useless and moronic element, we would be WAY better off. In my opinion, it's the biggest weakness of the Party.

Let's show all the anti-gun fools how to go out and start their own party so we can move forward. The Red Party is so weak right now, we might even be able to deliver them the coup de grace by chucking the gun fear.
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rl6214 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-08 01:33 PM
Response to Reply #84
130. From the Obama/Biden website
Address Gun Violence in Cities:
As president, Barack Obama would repeal the Tiahrt Amendment, which restricts the ability of local law enforcement to access important gun trace information, and give police officers across the nation the tools they need to solve gun crimes and fight the illegal arms trade. Obama and Biden also favor commonsense measures that respect the Second Amendment rights of gun owners, while keeping guns away from children and from criminals who shouldn't have them. They support closing the gun show loophole and making guns in this country childproof. They also support making the expired federal Assault Weapons Ban permanent, as such weapons belong on foreign battlefields and not on our streets.

And from the DNC website:
Firearms
We recognize that the right to bear arms is an important part of the American tradition, and we
will preserve Americans Second Amendment right to own and use firearms. We believe that
the right to own firearms is subject to reasonable regulation, but we know that what works in
Chicago may not work in Cheyenne. We can work together to enact and enforce commonsense
laws and improvements like closing the gun show loophole, improving our background
check system, and reinstating the assault weapons ban, so that guns do not fall into the hands of
terrorists or criminals. Acting responsibly and with respect for differing views on this issue, we
can both protect the constitutional right to bear arms and keep our communities and our children
safe.


You will notice BOTH of them have REINSTATING THE ASSAULT WEAPONS BAN as a major part of their policy on firearms.
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Tejas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-08 09:13 AM
Response to Reply #25
91. clue:
Some of us are collectors and now is an excellent time to make a financial investment in firearms. Ammunition has made leaps and bounds in price escalation over the past year, the firearms themselves are not far behind so it makes perfect sense to buy what is $500 today instead of waiting and paying $700 next week.


that is all.
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Tejas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-02-08 03:21 PM
Response to Reply #25
119. no no no, just keeping the Fascists at bay
so they'll think about invading Canada instead of Texas.

I believe the firearms-per-capita here in the Lone Star has been 6.2 or 6.3 for a good while now.



eh!

:rofl:
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RB TexLa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-31-08 02:46 PM
Response to Original message
26. They plan to go from chanting "drill, baby, drill" to "burn, baby, burn"

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VaYallaDawg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-31-08 02:52 PM
Response to Original message
28. Maybe they're still worried since Russia invaded Georgia??
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-31-08 03:42 PM
Response to Original message
33. Deleted sub-thread
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-31-08 04:04 PM
Response to Original message
34. Fear and Extremist Political Views Fueling Gun Sales
crazy people
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onethatcares Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-31-08 04:09 PM
Response to Original message
35. remember when Malcolm X said every black man should
buy a shotgun? That's the one to have, up close and personal if needed. Every man or boy over the age of 12 knows the sound of the slide racking a shell into the chamber.

Peace.
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B Calm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-31-08 04:20 PM
Response to Original message
38. The right to own a gun is a very liberal idea! Republicans thrive on
their made up wedge issues. So what will they say when Obama does nothing about the second amendment? The right to own a gun is a very liberal idea!
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Jed Dilligan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-31-08 04:35 PM
Response to Original message
43. You know what? I hope they decide to get militant.
They've been talking their violent, racist shit long enough. I want to see them actually take on the U.S. military.
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Fire_Medic_Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-08 01:09 AM
Response to Reply #43
75. Great idea let's use the military to kill US citizens, that's a real progressive idea.
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SteveM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-04-08 12:47 PM
Response to Reply #43
141. There is nothing more racist than gun control:
www.georgiacarry.org . Search for Heller Brief and get a mind-full of how steeped in racism gun-control has been throughout its history.
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ikura with quail egg Donating Member (2 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 06:29 AM
Response to Reply #43
150. Do you want to see Federal Agencies take on the US military?
That's far more likely in a gun related large-scale civil unrest situation. The military is likely to side with the people. Many military are gun owners and many former military are part of the "gun culture." I don't think the BATFE would fare too well against Infantry or Armor.
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Evoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-31-08 04:42 PM
Response to Original message
44. Not only that, but Obama will take our assault guns and give them to black people so they can
rape our womens and steals our land!!!!!!11111

:eyes:

Fucking idiot freepers and gun nuts.
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SteveM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-04-08 12:48 PM
Response to Reply #44
142. Uh, actually gun-control was designed to KEEP BLACKS from arming (nt)
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girl gone mad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-31-08 05:36 PM
Response to Original message
46. I live here and I think it has much more to do with the economy.
Edited on Fri Oct-31-08 05:37 PM by girl gone mad
Half the people I know have been pulling money out of the bank, buying gold and loading up on food and ammo in expectations of a "Mad Max" style Great Depression.

Yes, Texas is full of Drama Queens. It provides the rest of us with endless entertainment. I haven't heard anyone mention the Obama angle.
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spin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-31-08 05:59 PM
Response to Reply #46
55. "Assault" weapons might be a good investment...
If indeed another Assault Weapons Ban is enacted, the weapons purchased today should increase in value.

Remember that the weapons banned will merely look like fully automatic weapons used by the military. Functionally they are the same as common less threatening hunting rifles as they are semi-automatic not fully automatic. Fully automatic weapons are already restricted and while you can own one in many states, the requirements are daunting and expensive.

It was amazing how many people developed an interest in owning an "assault weapon" before and during the last ban. The ban accomplished little and in fact dramatically increased the sale of these weapons. Manufacturers made cosmetic changes to the weapons they produced after the ban. They sold like hot cakes. What had been a weapon a few people were interested in became THE weapon to own.

The situation reminded me of how the sale of .44 magnum S&W revolvers increased after the first Dirty Harry movie. Prior to that movie, few people had any interest in that revolver. After the movie the big .44 mag sold for 3 to 4 times the amount before the movie. I own a S&W .44 mag and while it's fun to shoot a few rounds through, it's a punishing weapon. For everyday target shooting, I prefer my other less powerful S&W revolvers.

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Tejas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-08 10:28 AM
Response to Reply #55
98. Excellent point
"The situation reminded me of how the sale of .44 magnum S&W revolvers increased after the first Dirty Harry movie. Prior to that movie, few people had any interest in that revolver. After the movie the big .44 mag sold for 3 to 4 times the amount before the movie."


Similar to what happened concerning the popularity of the Desert Eagle.
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SteveM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-04-08 12:49 PM
Response to Reply #98
143. To a lesser degree the .357 Mag was popularized by 50s T.V. (nt)
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charlie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-31-08 05:42 PM
Response to Original message
49. Like they need a reason
If Obama loses, you gotta have Rambo gear for the Rainbow Coalition riots that'll set our cities aflame.

Texas. It's a whole 'nuther planet.
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SteveM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-04-08 12:52 PM
Response to Reply #49
144. Gun-control is racism personified:
www.georgiacarry.org Search for Heller Brief and read about the pure racism which breeds gun-control. And those "flaming" cities? You'll read about that, too, and discover (if you let yourself) how the fear of "armed Negroes" in the latter 60s is what give birth to modern gun control. Check back in after reading the brief.
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workinclasszero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-31-08 05:50 PM
Response to Original message
53. McKKKain and Mooselini have the wingnuts whipped up into a frenzy of hate
and murderous rage.

I except many right wing gun nuts will go postal over the next 4 years. :hide:
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bdamomma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-31-08 06:14 PM
Response to Reply #53
58. sick sick people
fueled by division and hate.
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benEzra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-02-08 08:03 AM
Response to Reply #58
113. "fueled by division and hate"...
A pretty good description of the OP's attitude, yes.

40% of U.S. households own guns. Only half are repubs, 80% are nonhunters, and the OP is talking about people buying the most popular civilian rifles in America, not military guns or anything "out there."

Food for thought (written in '04, vindicated in '06, applicable in '08, IMO):

Dems and the Gun Issue - Now What? (written in '04, largely vindicated in '06, IMO)
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-31-08 08:46 PM
Response to Reply #53
70. do you suppose leaders in the GOP are Trying to Create Civil Unrest?
Edited on Fri Oct-31-08 08:47 PM by fascisthunter
it is a possibility from my perspective due to what I have read about how their supporters are behaving at these rallies for McCain and Palin. And you never see, via Youtube or read about them telling their supporters to calm the threatening rhetoric. Only once did McCain...
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Fire_Medic_Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-08 01:06 AM
Response to Reply #53
74. Maybe you'll learn to spell expect by then.
Edited on Sat Nov-01-08 01:23 AM by Fire_Medic_Dave
or did you mean suspect. Just kidding, easy mistake.

David
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Tejas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-08 09:24 AM
Response to Reply #53
93. "murderous rage" "will go postal" - project much do you? n/t
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SteveM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-04-08 12:56 PM
Response to Reply #53
145. Want to see a frenzy of hate? Read:
The Great American Gun Debate, by Kates and Kleck. You will discover the hatred and denigration heaped upon millions of Americans by gun owners. Only the gun-controllers weren't internet trolls are poison-pen blogs. They were journalists, editors, academicians, celebrities and politicians.

Your "expectations" of going postal is kinda paranoid
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gulliver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-31-08 06:58 PM
Response to Original message
63. Or it could be because of the financial system problems.
One or the other.
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Tejas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-08 09:17 AM
Response to Reply #63
92. Yep
Entirely possible. Look around at ads for firearm sales, some sellers are not at all bashful about admitting that they're selling due to a mortgage payment etc.

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lib2DaBone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-31-08 08:11 PM
Response to Original message
65. If George Bush Declares Marshall Law Before Jan 20th...
..We may all want an AR-15
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SteveM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-04-08 12:59 PM
Response to Reply #65
146. Funny, the gun-controllers seem to miss this possibility (nt)
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Elidor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-31-08 08:32 PM
Response to Original message
67. Yeah, that reminds me: everyone show up Wednesday morning for your assignments
We still need people to go door-to-door collecting guns with the Re-Education Tactical Teams in several states, especially Texas and Idaho. Details and signup sheets can be found at HusseinObamaXUnderground. Please don't sign up if you've already committed to another team (i.e. Homosexual Agenda for Schools Squads or Socialist Bank Liberation Brigades). And please remember at all times to observe Sharia law. If the Mullahs arrest you for a violation, we cannot help you.
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-31-08 08:43 PM
Response to Reply #67
69. Roger Roger
I'll be there with the Soy
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jeepnstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-08 09:05 AM
Response to Reply #67
129. I didn't get the memo...
Should I be worried? I know the secret sign. Unless they changed it on me....
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Fire_Medic_Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-08 01:00 AM
Response to Original message
72. Why are they assholes?
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Tejas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-08 09:05 AM
Response to Reply #72
89. We're not, we're just more
Edited on Sat Nov-01-08 09:06 AM by Tejas
more "direct" than most.

The OP apparently hates Texas for some unknown reason, the usual cause is jealousy.



sing-along-to-the-dancing-ball

"aaaaaaall my ex's live in Texas"

:rofl:








edit: lyrics correction
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jody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-08 05:36 PM
Response to Reply #89
103. The only acceptable version of your "sing-along" is by King George.
One of my favorites. :hi:
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Citizen Number 9 Donating Member (878 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-11-08 02:32 AM
Response to Reply #89
151. Texas is great because......
Edited on Tue Nov-11-08 02:34 AM by Citizen Number 9
You can have a beer whilst getting fitted for new boots.

Other than that...well..... :)
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jody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-08 07:45 AM
Response to Original message
85. I love threads like this because it attracts those who oppose my views. They post
assertions contradicting widely known facts and vie to see who can use the most hysterical, emotional adjectives to attack an inanimate object, actions consistent with someone who has a serious case of hoplophobia.

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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-08 08:21 AM
Response to Reply #85
86. And when you point out their deep misunderstandings of facts, they run away
About the same time the moderators move the thread to the Gungeon.

:argh:
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SteveM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-04-08 01:01 PM
Response to Reply #86
147. Don't worry. Everybody sees their behavior (nt)
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Tejas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-08 08:58 AM
Response to Original message
88. Typical drive-by subject line
Way to go skippy, nothing works better to incite and attract attention than calling an entire state of gun owners a foul name.

Thank you for your help in attracting voters who are on the fence. :sarcasm:

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Rancid Crabtree Donating Member (138 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-02-08 08:34 AM
Response to Original message
114. Yeah, but when you have shitheads like
George Soros and Rebecca Peters out there who'd like to disarm honest citizens, such as myself, and willing accomplices that allege to represent us...and a previous attempt to ban guns that folk in the gun culture like to shoot...and thread titles like this one has...well, it shouldn't come as a shock that registered Democrats such as myself are questioning their standing...time will tell.
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Tejas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-02-08 10:59 AM
Response to Reply #114
115. Fascists always shoot themselves in the foot
You would think they just don't know any better than to give the Republicans ammo to use against us, but the truth be known, facts start to show that they actually don't care.

That's when the antis & gun-grabbers here start to look like GOP plants. Really, look at some (or all) of the posts by those from other countries that push the gun control agenda. Doesn't take much to see a trend.
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Retired AF Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-02-08 01:23 PM
Response to Original message
116. All the assholes live in Texsas
Edited on Sun Nov-02-08 01:40 PM by Retired AF Dem
No assholes in your state?
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jody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-02-08 01:27 PM
Response to Reply #116
117. His state has at least one!
:rofl:
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Citizen Number 9 Donating Member (878 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-02-08 11:19 PM
Response to Original message
125. It's not just in Texas...
I watched firearms being vomited out the door of the local gun shop the last two weeks. What's more is I saw groups of people buying guns two and three at a time. Never really seen that before.
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benEzra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-08 08:13 AM
Response to Reply #125
127. Word on the gun boards is that the most popular rifle models are backordered
three to 10 MONTHS, depending on model and caliber.

Illinois-based Rock River Arms, one of the leading manufacturers of AR-15 type rifles, indefinitely suspended sales of its highly regarded Model 1911 style pistols so that it can focus on trying to meet rifle demand.

http://www.rockriverarms.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=categ...
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jeepnstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-08 09:00 AM
Response to Reply #127
128. I saw this one coming....
I was going to order an upper for a SBR and was nicely told by the supplier it probably wasn't going to happen any time soon. My dealer really didn't want to hassle with helping with the paper work right now and I can't blame them. Panic buyers are just eating up everything in sight right now. I've been well-stocked for years so I can view this last-minute concern with a bit of amusement. Look for good deals on ammo and magazines in a couple of months after people figure out they don't need 10,000 rounds of 5.56 sitting on the shelf.

Things will settle down in a few weeks when they see President-elect Obama heading to the center to govern. My only last-minute run today will be to the liquor store for a bit of Knob Creek, to share with a few fellow political hacks as we watch the results roll in.
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Citizen Number 9 Donating Member (878 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-06-08 12:53 AM
Response to Reply #127
149. Prices are rising, too...
It's not just the popular models, it's anything that looks remotely scary. In fact, nearly everything is backordered. Nearly everything.

Prices are now rising rapidly, too. From the reports it does look a bit like price-gouging and now, some of the buyers are beginning to get irritated, grumbling against the retailers.

The inside news is that some retailers are making as much profit in a couple weeks as they used to do in an entire year.

Guns, guns, guns...ain't it crazy?

I think it's amazing that fewer people than ever seem to actually use them as tools or for hunting, yet more and more people make a big deal over them.
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JoeyMac Donating Member (31 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-08 03:16 PM
Response to Original message
134. My local shop stopped all layaway pending election outcome...
I've noticed that my local shop has been packed lately and the stock on the shelves is dwindling. I heard the shop owner explaining to a customer that they would not accept a layaway application on an AR15 (Black Rifle) until the election results cleared up. He said that if McCain gets elected layaways and custom orders will again be taken... if obama gets elected then no credit/layaway/custom orders will be issued. Basically, it's resorted to cash'n'carry. I also heard from a Class 3 weapons dealer that his orders have SKYROCKETED recently so he is having alot of touble keeping up and the ATF is experiencing a long backlog with longer than normal delays.

I attribute this to mostly ignorant hysteria rather than just hysteria. I mean, the guns won't be banned the moment (if/when) obama gets elected. The ban will happen AFTER the innauguration (duh).

I still got a few months to get a few more "assault weapon" recievers and a few dozen hicap mags.
I just picked up a new silencer over the weekend so I'll be good on those in the near term future.
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spin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-08 05:38 PM
Response to Reply #134
135. So the threat of gun control increases gun sales...
Imagine that!

Sometimes I think Democrats in control are better for gun manufacturers than Republicans. The last Assault Weapons Ban was a total failure at gun control but it did accomplish one thing. The sale of "assault weapons" and high capacity magazines skyrocketed. Instead of reducing the number of "assault weapons", the ban dramatically increased their presence. Every regular shooter and a lot of the less enthusiastic gun owners just had to have one.

Looks like the mere possibility that Obama will become President is causing the same phenomenon.

It would be nice if the people we elect would take firearms away from criminals rather than honest citizens. That might be called real gun control.
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JoeyMac Donating Member (31 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-08 07:08 PM
Response to Reply #135
136. Here's the real teaser...
And the REAL kicker is that in spite of ultimately putting more "assault weapons" on the street, the crime rates still did not go up.
That's like failure x2 for the AWB - during AND after the ban period.


I just wish the supreme court would come out an say," The sale & possession of guns, ammo, and acessories cannot be banned or excessively taxed"
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benEzra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-04-08 01:10 PM
Response to Reply #134
148. Only problem is, some models are backordered for MONTHS.
On another board I frequent, someone went to order a .308 AR variant (it may have been a DPMS) and was told that they were backordered eight to ten months. So if you want something that your local gun store doesn't have in stock or in the pipeline, you may have to wait quite a while.
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