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GUNS IN THE NEWS - October 28, 2003 (Revised Guidelines)

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CO Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-27-03 11:46 PM
Original message
GUNS IN THE NEWS - October 28, 2003 (Revised Guidelines)
Please try to adhere to the following guidelines:

1 - Feel free to add any CURRENT stories to this thread by replying to this message. In order to be considered current, stories should have been originally posted to the 'Net within the past 24 hours, or provide follow-up to a story that was previously posted on the J/PS board. (On Mondays, stories that were originally posted to the 'Net over the weekend - Friday night through Sunday - are considered current. This allows for the fact than amny people are off-line over the weekend, allowing the Monday thread to be a weekend summary.)

2 - Both pro-gun and anti-gun stories are welcome in this thread, as well as gun-related editorials, as long as they're current. Please do not post links from a few years back that support your position.

3 - Do not change story titles. In other words, if the Oskosh Gazette's web site runs a story titled "Two Killed in Holdup", the title of your message should read "Two Killed in Holdup". Don't change it to "Gun Owner Kills Two People", or anything else that changes the meaning of the story.

4 - If it's not clear from the title where the story occurred, add the city, state, or country in parentheses after the title.

5 - Comment on a story by replying to that story.

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Valarauko Donating Member (227 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-27-03 11:49 PM
Response to Original message
1. Neighbor rescues man mauled by his own pit bull
Neighbor rescues man mauled by his own pit bull

By Vincent T. Davis
San Antonio Express-News

Web Posted : 10/20/2003 12:00 AM

Terry Ayala was stirred from her Sunday afternoon nap by loud barking.
When she peered from the bedroom window of her Northeast Side house, a horrific sight was unfolding in the yard next door.

Ayala's neighbor, Malko Oswald, was on the ground behind his house with his 50-pound pit bull latched to his face.

http://news.mysanantonio.com/story.cfm?xla=saen&xlc=1072142


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iverglas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-03 09:13 AM
Response to Reply #1
6. "This is at least the third pit bull attack ...
... in San Antonio this year."


The problem: pit bull attacks.

Solution # 1: all neighbours of people with pit bulls should possess firearms to protect themselves and others against pit bulls, since firearms are the most effective and sometimes only way to do that. Hell, you just never know when you'll come upon a pit bull attacking someone, or be attacked by a pit bull, so it's actually wise for everyone to carry a firearm with them at all times.

Solution # 2: possession of pit bulls should be prohibited and the prohibition strictly enforced.


Feel free to guess which solution I advocate.


The article notes that neighbourhood children had played in the yard with the dog in question. How fortunate that when it decided to attack someone, the victim was its owner.

.
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CO Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-03 09:24 AM
Response to Reply #6
10. Many Towns Have Banned Pit Bulls
I've known pit bulls that were very sweet dogs. But I've seen others that were trained to become killing machines.
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-03 09:43 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. Indeed...
Many pit bulls have been trained to be aggressive and rage-filled...
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iverglas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-03 12:37 PM
Response to Reply #11
19. actually
It's pretty generally recognized that they're bred that way. The development of the breed itself (which is a pretty recent thing), the characteristics that were selected for, had the specific aim of producing an aggressive dog. The risk arises not only from the propensity for aggression, but also from the great strength of the dog and capacity for damage as a result of the configuration of its jaws and teeth.

As the example in this story shows, pit bulls that have at all previous times been safe around children, for example, may suddenly (and presumably inexplicably) try to kill their someone, including their owners. (Or, of course, other animals; a good friend of mine lost a kitten when her neighbour's pit bull jumped the fence.)

That law-abiding pit bull can just go postal in an instant.


If the aim of whatever public policy is adopted to address this known danger to public safety is to reduce the risk, what does make more sense?

1. Reduce the number of opportunities for the risk to materialize -- i.e. for people to get hurt or killed -- and thus reduce the need for people to take measures to protect themselves against the potential harm by methods that themselves involve serious risks of harm occurring (e.g. keeping firearms in their home or on their persons); or

2. Allow (essentially, make it necessary) for people to equip themselves with the means by which they might (but might not) succeed in averting or minimizing harm if the risk materializes.

Impair liberty by prohibiting the possession of pit bull dogs thereby reducing the need for the possession of weapons to defend against pit bull dogs that may be the source of other, different harms, or impair security by permitting the possession of pit bull dogs and thereby reducing the need for weapons that to defend against them (and perhaps restricting access to those weapons, to reduce other harms)?

Ah, liberty vs. security in a nutshell. A pitshell. A nut bull. Bull-nuts vs. pit-grabbers?

.
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demsrule4life Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-03 09:58 AM
Response to Reply #6
12. No bad dogs
but plenty of bad dog owners. Had a problem with one on saturday while walking two of my dogs. So for my next walk do I double up on the dogs I'am walking or carry a .45?

http://www.geocities.com/newlandzoi/intro.htm

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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-03 08:29 AM
Response to Original message
2. Teen Shot While Lying In Bed
"Police are working to find the person responsible for firing a shot that injured a teenage girl Monday morning.
The 15-year-old was lying in her bed when a bullet came through the bedroom window and struck her in the right leg, according to police. "

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ibsys/20031028/lo_wdiv/1849286
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-03 08:52 AM
Response to Original message
3. Witnesses thwart robbery attempt
"A man armed with what a witness said was a shotgun unsuccessfully tried to rob a Kansas City, Kan., grocery Monday while an infant boy awaited in his getaway car.
The man fired a shot into the ceiling and demanded money, Lipari said. After one of the two clerks handed him money, the robber told Lipari to give him more from a booth near the exit.
As Lipari passed in front of the robber, Lipari punched him in the face. Startled, the man lowered the shotgun, which had a pistol-type grip. Lipari said that as he pulled the gun toward the floor, he wrenched it from the robber’s hand. The gun went off a second time, Lipari said, but the shot went into the floor."

http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/news/local/7118847.htm
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-03 08:57 AM
Response to Original message
4. Traffic tied up for hours as slaying suspect sits with gun
"A man suspected of killing his ex-girlfriend late Sunday caused a nearly five-hour shutdown of a major intersection north of Downtown on Monday as he sat on a curb holding a gun to his head, officials said.
Authorities were forced to evacuate some residents and reroute miles of traffic as Alfredo Garcia, 22, ignored police orders to drop his gun and offers of help, said Sgt. Marco Borboa, a Tucson Police Department spokesman.
Garcia finally put down his handgun just before noon, and officers shot him with a Taser, rubber bullets and wooden dowels, Borboa said. "

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=397&ncid=397&e=2&u=/azstar/20031028/lo_azstar/traffictiedupforhoursasslayingsuspectsitswithgun
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-03 09:07 AM
Response to Original message
5. Britney's Black Helicopter
"I was reminded of my old cyberspace gun friends the other day when I came across the NRA blacklist, a fact sheet that the National Rifle Association offers to all visitors to their website. It identifies individuals, organizations and corporations that apparently suffer from the twisted, un-American delusion that the Founding Fathers didn't want all Americans to be able to defend themselves with fertilizer bombs. The list is a full nineteen pages long and can be printed out and duct-taped to the wall of your trailer in case you forget who the enemies of freedom are.

The NRA doesn't explain in detail why any of these people or organizations are on their list but I think that we can be sure that some will take their word that those on the list are laying in wait to shred our precious Bill of Rights and render us defenseless against the criminal hordes in our streets and our government.

Upon looking at the list I realized just what a service the NRA has performed for those who value their Second Amendment rights. I mean without the NRA to tell you otherwise, you might be under the impression that Olympic figure-skating champion Tara Lipinski and Tampa Bay wide-receiver Keyshawn Johnson were just harmless if talented professional athletes. How wrong you are - they're on the list so they're after your guns."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/articles/03/10/28_britney.html

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Stilgar Donating Member (197 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-03 12:32 PM
Response to Reply #5
18. Good lord that article is stupid
The blacklist is a list of people, groups, and companies that are opposed to the RKBA or think that banning guns will keep them safe. So what? Many groups have blacklists. People dont like to spend money on others that use your money to support something you are against, imagine that.

Equating a few zealots to all members of the NRA is foolish and does nothing. The NRA is not for Dirty bombs and grenade launchers. Those zealots have history as a reason for fear of the government. This artical ends up sounding just as inane as the zealots it tries to ridicule.

Most people know, when the stuff really hits the fan, the government shows up only after the stink dies down. Natural disasters and riots happen, when they do people inside these areas are on there own for long periods of time. Unfortunatly there are people who take advantage of the situation and steal, rape, and murder while police and others tend to other things. Knowing this FACT, I would like to protect myself with a gun since the closer a threat is the more damage to me or family can happen. The only difference between the everyday world and those rare occasions is police responce time, and any time beging for your right to life is too long.

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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-03 01:15 PM
Response to Reply #18
21. Not as stupid as the NRA's blacklist
It pretty much is everybody decent in America...

"Many groups have blacklists."
Name some....

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Stilgar Donating Member (197 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-03 02:40 PM
Response to Reply #21
24. If you really dont know, lets start by what a blacklist is.
Edited on Tue Oct-28-03 02:42 PM by Stilgar
black·list ( P ) Pronunciation Key (blklst)
n.
A list of persons or organizations that have incurred disapproval or suspicion or are to be boycotted or otherwise penalized.

So who has ever created a list of people to be penalized...
Well, the government has many
Anyone who violates a company's policy
almost any hall of shame
almost any company or person that does something bad in someones opinion usually is put on one

Wow i am having a hard time with this, Yahoo! only lists just over a million pages dealing with boycotts.

http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=boycott&ei=UTF-8&fr=fp-top
http://www.boycott-republicans.com/
http://www.boycott-riaa.com/

Click on the search yahoo and you get a list longer than I care to type.

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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-03 02:46 PM
Response to Reply #24
26. So in this case
how are you going to boycott e.g., the American Academy of Pediatricians, pray tell?

Send your kids to faith healers?

Shoot at them until they get well?
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DoNotRefill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-03 02:54 PM
Response to Reply #26
27. simply ask the doctor's secretary when scheduling an appointment...
if the doctor belongs to the organization. If the doctor does, go somewhere else.

Before I'd go to a new doctor, I'd do some research, wouldn't you? Pertinent facts: Where and when the doctor went to school, is the doctor board-certified in a specialty, how frequently has the doctor been sued, how many complaints have been filed against the doctor, How many patients does the doctor see annually, does the doctor belong to subversive groups, et cetera.

Or do you just pick doctors based upon their yellow pages ad???
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-03 03:04 PM
Response to Reply #27
29. Where, the gun show?
"Before I'd go to a new doctor, I'd do some research, wouldn't you?"
Yeah, and I'd certainly want to know why a pediatrician wasn't in the largest and most well known group of pediatric specialists...and if that pediatrician didn't belong for an idiotic reason like "they want to take away my handgun" I'd certainly know that he was a gun nut and most likely a prize quack.

"do you just pick doctors based upon their yellow pages ad?"
I just shoot toward the Yellow Pages at random until I hit a name....
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Stilgar Donating Member (197 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-03 03:44 PM
Response to Reply #29
33. Heaven forbid you take your sick kid to see a "gun nut" doctor
Since he/she is obviously a quack for not belonging to the AAP and standing up for his/her rights.

By that logic everyone should pay dues to thier leading industry group. No matter what they do with your dues, keep paying them. Even if you have an objection to what they do with it, keep paying them for you might be labeled a nut, quack, or insane.
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-03 03:57 PM
Response to Reply #33
34. No, I'll take mine to a SANE one
"By that logic everyone should pay dues to thier leading industry group."
Well, yeah. That's what an industry group is FOR..

"Even if you have an objection to what they do with it, keep paying them for you might be labeled a nut, quack, or insane."
You mean just because somebody fears the AAP is going to take away his precious guns?
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Stilgar Donating Member (197 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-03 01:45 PM
Response to Reply #34
41. So if AAP's position were reversed you would still send your money
Just wondering all things being the same, just this one area they changed there minds., IF the AAP said "Guns in the home are fine, and kids should learn to shoot the same age as they learn to ride a bike." You would still be sending every check? Perhaps they are giving money to the NRA. You would still be just fine with that? Would the AAP become suddenly insane?
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-03 03:04 PM
Response to Reply #41
42. Gee, you really think
They'd take a lunatic position like that? Really, that's touching...and hilarious.

"Perhaps they are giving money to the NRA."
Gee, and if everyone who believes in fairies claps their hands, perhaps they will and Tinker Bell will live again....
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Stilgar Donating Member (197 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-03 02:59 PM
Response to Reply #26
28. I am guessing you don't know where the AAP's money comes from
SOURCES OF FUNDING: The AAP's activities and programs are funded through a wide variety of sources including membership dues, revenues from continuing medical education activities and publications, and unrestricted educational grants from individuals, foundations, corporations, and government.

So if the NRA has members that are also in the AAP, dues will drop and grants could stop. I have a feeling a few of the NRA's 5 million people might contribute to the AAP, and once on the list may not any more.

You see, one of the main purposes for a blacklist or boycott is to hurt the amount of money flowing to the person, organization, or company. This is a good way for the group on said list to measure the amount of displeasure of its members and to bring change.
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-03 03:06 PM
Response to Reply #28
30. Too too funny...
Yeah, I can see the chinless gumps with NRA stickers on their trailers withholding their AAP dues in spite...

"I have a feeling a few of the NRA's 5 million people might contribute to the AAP"
Leaving only 282 million sane Americans to make up the difference....
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Stilgar Donating Member (197 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-03 03:30 PM
Response to Reply #30
32. yes, you are too too funny
Edited on Tue Oct-28-03 03:48 PM by Stilgar
I see that you are trying to sound intellegent on issues only to find you dont know squat about them and once called out on that fact you try to change the subject and end up spouting more nonsense.

You asked for a list and I gave you a link to a long one. Putting a name on a list can cause change. Geico insurance once on the list sent a letter to the NRA begging to be removed.

If boycotts dont work there would not be any. The shear number of them shows that they do work. As much as you may loath to admit it but the ousting of the Democrats in 2000 and Gore's loss of his home state show that there are far less than 282 million sane Americans making up the difference. The number of people that agree with the NRA but do not pay dues would probably cause you nightmares.
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-03 04:01 PM
Response to Reply #32
35. Gee, I know plenty about the issue
"Geico insurance once on the list sent a letter to the NRA begging to be removed."
Actually, they pointed out that they had no public position on guns whatsoever, since they sell auto insutrance......it turns out the dingbats at the NRA imagined they might have once pointed out in public how unsafe a gun in the house actually IS.

"the ousting of the Democrats in 2000 and Gore's loss of his home state show that there are far less than 282 million sane Americans making up the difference."
Prove it.

"The number of people that agree with the NRA but do not pay dues would probably cause you nightmares."
Not me...but then I'm not fretting that the AAP is going to take away my guns.
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Stilgar Donating Member (197 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-03 01:33 PM
Response to Reply #35
40. Prove it
If the "blacklist" the NRA made has no effect (as you said about the AAP) why would Geico want to be taken off, since some see it as a badge of honor. Why would an auto insurance agency be talking about guns in the home. They deal with cars? The mistake was a person acting as a rep for Geico said that but it is not policy, so they sent the letter to clear that up.

Prove that Gore lost because of guns? Well since leading Democrats, Republicans, and political observers have said as much, I will tend to agree with them and not you.

Of coarse you are not fretting, you probably dont own a gun. I do, though I dont give a rip about the boycott, they obviously do work.

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DoNotRefill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-03 02:45 PM
Response to Reply #21
25. So Britney is "decent"?
After what she said about Bush????

Groups with "blacklists":

Million Mom March:
http://www.millionmommarch.org/features/timeout/index.asp?record=27

PETA:
http://www.caringconsumer.com/

If you go to the NAACP and search for "boycott" it turns up a bunch of stuff, but I couldn't find a complete premade list.
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-03 03:08 PM
Response to Reply #25
31. Compared to Ted Nugent?
Hahahahahahahaha....

Meanwhile, from the Million Moms...

"John Ashcroft is at it again! We noted when he was first placed in the Time Out Chair, that we knew that as the new Attorney General, he would surely weaken gun laws and put our families at risk. This was an easy assumption to make for a man on record for voting to weaken the Brady law, voting against a ban on importing foreign high-capacity magazines, against background checks at gun shows, against child safety locks, and against the federal assault weapons ban.

True to form, now he has threatened to prosecute California's top law enforcement officials for enforcing California laws that prevent criminals from obtaining guns! One such practice in California has been to do a background check to determine whether a gun owner is prohibited from possessing firearms before the gun is returned after it has been removed from a home during a police response to a domestic violence incident. The Department of Justice has also strong-armed Georgia State officials from pursuing a similar policy that uses federal background checks to keep guns out of the hands of felons.

Now we are watching to see what position and role John Ashcroft will take on renewing the Assault Weapons Ban that is due to expire in September 2004. At a recent hearing before the Senate Judiciary Committee, he refused to directly respond to a question on whether the Administration would support the renewal of the ban, stating, "We will continue to study what impact the ban has had on reducing crime." I suspect that even John's own mother wouldn't accept that kind of answer! "

They've certainly tagged that scumbag accurately.

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CO Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-03 09:15 AM
Response to Original message
7. New gun shoots around corners (Israel)
Just what we need..... - Wayne

* * * * *

New gun shoots around corners

Oct. 28 -
An Israeli-American company Corner Shot Holding has developed a gun that is capable of shooting around corners, without exposing the shooter to risk., Ma'ariv reported. Officials in the security establishment and the IDF currently are examining the possibility of incorporating this newly developed gun into the arsenal used by the special counter-terrorism units that operate in the territories. The patented invention used in the Corner Shot gun is a special rod that allows for the end of the gun to be trained either left or right by the combatant, depending on the specific situation on the ground.

<more>

http://www.israel21c.org/bin/en.jsp?enPage=BlankPage&enDisplay=view&enDispWhat=Zone&enDispWho=InThePress&enZone=InThePress&Date=10/28/03%208:23%20PM
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Withergyld Donating Member (685 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-03 11:25 AM
Response to Reply #7
13. The Germans made guns with curved barrels during WWII
big deal
:eyes:
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CO Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-03 09:18 AM
Response to Original message
8. Five shot during open weekend of pheasant season (Iowa)
Edited on Tue Oct-28-03 09:18 AM by CO Liberal
As far as I'm concerned, anyone wh can't tell the difference between a pheasant and a hunter should stay out of the woods - Wayne

Five shot during open weekend of pheasant season


DES MOINES (AP) ---
The number of hunters accidentally shot during the first weekend of pheasant season equaled the number wounded for the entire season last year, officials said.

Five hunters suffered gunshot wounds Saturday and Sunday, while only five hunters were shot last year during the entire pheasant season, which runs through Jan. 10, said Rod Slings, recreation safety programs supervisor for the Department of Natural Resources.

He said the increase in accidents reflects an increase in hunters in the field, enticed by reports of increased pheasant numbers.

Scott Grandstaff, 27, of Newton, suffered superficial wounds in a hunting accident about 10:40 a.m. Saturday. He was with eight other hunters when he was struck by stray pellets, said DNR conservation officer Mike Ryan.

<more>

http://www.wcfcourier.com/articles/2003/10/28/news/breaking_news/e780d77ebf29478586256dcd00405d28.txt
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CO Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-03 09:22 AM
Response to Original message
9. Triple shooting leaves 2 dead (Kentucky)
Yet another senseless killing .... brought to you by a "law-abiding" gun owner - Wayne

* * * * * * * * * *

Triple shooting leaves 2 dead

Jennifer and Ricky Risner's divorce was to be final next week. And until Sunday, authorities said their split had not been volatile, and no reports of violence between the two had been officially documented.

So police continued Monday trying to piece together how a child custody exchange Sunday between the Risners led to a triple shooting, killing both Grayson County residents and leaving their 3-year-old son critically injured.

Kentucky State Police Detective Norman Chaffins said the divorce of Jennifer A. Risner, 31, and Ricky D. Risner, 30, both of Leitchfield, was to be complete next week. Instead of the final resolution being handed down by the court, Ricky Risner "made it final himself," Chaffins said.

<more>

http://www.newsenterpriseonline.com/articles/2003/10/28/news/news01.txt
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-03 11:32 AM
Response to Original message
14. Gunman Shoots Clerk Over Cigarettes
"A southwest Harris County convenience store clerk was shot late Sunday night after he asked two men to show identification in order to purchase cigarettes.
Harris County deputies responded to a shooting call at the 7 Days Food Store on Winkleman near Lindita a few minutes after 10 p.m. Sunday.
"The clerk asked (the men) for their ID because of their age and at that point one of the suspects produced a small-caliber handgun and shot the clerk one time in the chin and then fled the scene," Harris County Sheriff's Department Sgt. John Martin said."

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=320&ncid=320&e=3&u=/ibsys/20031027/lo_kprc/1848036
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-03 11:52 AM
Response to Original message
15. Police Say Aiea Shooting Well Planned
"Honolulu police launched a search for three men who gunned down an Aiea man as he sat in a friend's garage Sunday night. The killing appeared to be well planned, according to police.
Police were called to a house on Pamoho Place in Aiea Sunday night. When they arrived they found a man who had been shot several times.
"Three armed suspects walked into the carport and approached the victim who was seated in a chair in the carport and shot him at least three times," Honolulu Police Department Lt. Bill Kato said. "According to some of the witnesses they may have been wearing masks or T-shirts over their face and head." "

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ibsys/20031028/lo_kitv/1849455
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Romulus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-03 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. another gun control success
http://www.bradycampaign.org/legislation/state/viewstate.asp?state=hi

HI has severe handgun restrictions, handgun owner licensing and registration, and the much-touted discretionary permit system that results in no CCW's being issued. Plus, it's an island thousands of miles from the nearest land.

Yet these three can still walk around in public, shooting people at will. :eyes:
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-03 12:31 PM
Response to Original message
16. Injured Man Charged With Murder
"A Chickasaw County man accused of shooting his girlfriend will make an initial court appearance tomorrow morning.
Rick Devries, 39 was arrested Saturday on first degree murder charges in connection with the death of Rachel Fisher, 22.
Fisher died from gun shot wounds earlier this month at a house near North Washington.
Devries was also shot, but deputies are not saying whether it was self-inflicted."

http://www.kcrg.com/article.aspx?art_id=69065&cat_id=123
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iverglas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-03 01:05 PM
Response to Original message
20. (Update) Witness says Boca man shot teen as he was running away ...
"Witness says Boca man shot teen as he was running away after prank"


I suggested we keep an eye on the story posted by Benchley yesterday, "Family, friends mourn West Boca teen shot to death by neighbor". The basics were:

Mark Drewes, out with a friend ringing doorbells along Woodbury Road about 12:30 a.m. Saturday, was shot by a neighbor, Jay Steven Levin, 40. Levin, permitted for 12 years to own a concealed handgun, told police he shot Drewes thinking he was a burglar.


Now we have this.

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/palmbeach/sfl-pdeath28oct28,0,5247810.story
(emphasis added)

Two teens were running away from a house early Saturday, panicked at the sight of the homeowner with a pistol, when a fatal shot rang out, one of the boys told his mother. ... Martynenko ... told his mother he and Drewes rang the doorbell at 6115 Woodbury Road in a spirit of mischievousness.

When Levin, 40, opened the door, the boys were not far away, and he fired, according to the Sheriff's Office.

We know what the man who did the shooting said: that he shot someone whom "he thought was a burglar". Some might think that unlikely (even if they maintained that people are entitled to shoot fleeing burglars in the back). A burglar and his buddy ringing his doorbell at midnight, on "meandering, well-tended Woodbury Street"? Some might think he was on the lookout for seasonal Hallowe'en property damage; he does indeed seem to have had his share of neighbourhood-kid problems, and I'm by no means unsympathetic to someone with those problems.

Levin has reported vandalism at his house twice within the past four years, according to Sheriff's Office reports. In March 2000, he told police two windows in the front of his home were broken by a paint ball. In a second incident, Levin told deputies in February 2001 that he found a hole in a bedroom window.
I'm just not sympathetic to someone who decides to kill the kids.


Looks like the fact that a charge was not laid on the spot just isn't the final word:

Sheriff's spokeswoman Diane Carhart refused to discuss the case, saying only that detectives hope to meet with the State Attorney's Office within the next week to determine whether criminal charges are warranted. She said Levin has cooperated with detectives. Carhart said the detectives don't think he is a flight risk, but she declined to elaborate why.


In a black-humour twist, the surname of the mother of the dead kid's friend is "Gun".

.
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-03 02:02 PM
Response to Reply #20
23. Interesting...
Thanks for the update.
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iverglas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-03 04:14 PM
Response to Reply #23
36. and interestingly

I'm still waiting for all the "justifiable homicide" conclusion-leapers from the previous thread to show up.

Anybody who couldn't smell the stink on that story from anywhere on the continent has no business being allowed out without supervision.

Will you help me find my kitten, little girl?
Ever done any modelling babe?
I just need $10 to get to the hospital because my wife's having a baby.
I guarantee it, you'll double your money in a week.
Of course it's not swamp!

If it ain't potentially fatal gullibility, it's gotta be something else ...

.
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-03 04:45 PM
Response to Reply #36
37. You will notice the same bunch
wanted us to believe a week or so back that somebody would be trotting around in public in a Nazi uniform or peddling Nazi memorabilia for reasons that had absolutely nothing to do with being a Nazi...

The wonder is not that they're peddling it; it's that they think anybody else is gonna buy that hooey...
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-03 02:00 PM
Response to Original message
22. One Dead, One Injured In Uptown Shooting
"When police arrived at the scene on Lombard Street, they found two people shot in the car.
A woman, identified by police as 47-year-old Mary Lee Clevanger or Waynesburg, died at the scene and the male victim was taken to Mercy Hospital. "

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ibsys/20031028/lo_wtae/1849823
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-03 04:55 PM
Response to Original message
38. Shooting Witness Testifies in Sniper Case
"VIRGINIA BEACH, Va. - An explosion rang out and a woman on a bench slumped over, blood pouring from her head, a witness testified Tuesday in the trial of sniper suspect John Allen Muhammad. And an officer testified that a horrified colleague informed her the shooting was "the third one this morning."
Ramos was one of five people to die in Montgomery County, Md., within a 16-hour period on Oct. 2-3, 2002. In all, 10 people were slain in the shooting spree that terrorized the Washington area for three weeks.
Muhammad, 42, is on trial for only one of the 10 killings, the Oct. 9, 2002, shooting of Dean Harold Meyers at a gas station in Manassas, Va. But prosecutors are presenting evidence from other shootings before and during the Washington-area spree."

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20031028/ap_on_re_us/sniper_shootings_trial_21
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-03 05:23 PM
Response to Original message
39. Witness: Fred Lane said his wife might kill him
"Deidra Lane threatened her husband, former Carolina Panthers player Fred Lane, with guns in the weeks before killing him, prosecution witnesses testified Monday.
Deidra Lane has pleaded guilty to voluntary manslaughter in connection with the July 2000 shotgun slaying of her estranged husband.
Muhammad said Fred Lane told him that he woke up one night to find Deidra Lane pointing a gun at him.
Then, Muhammad recalled Fred Lane telling him about being fired at with a shotgun."

http://www.charlotte.com/mld/charlotte/news/7120250.htm
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