The NRA's Enemies List

[MrBenchley]

"he National Rifle Association doesn't call it an enemies list, but deep in the recesses of the organization's Web site is a long, long compilation of the names of groups and individuals that the N.R.A. considers unfriendly.

I'm happy to report that I'm on the list, but my name is truly one among very many. The A.F.L.-C.I.O. is there, and the American Academy of Pediatrics. The Children's Defense Fund and the Lutheran Office for Governmental Affairs are there. The United States Catholic Conference, the U.S. Conference of Mayors and the Y.W.C.A. of the U.S.A. are all there.

Among the celebrities on the list are Dr. Joyce Brothers, Candice Bergen, Walter Cronkite, Doug Flutie, Michelle Pfeiffer, Vinny Testaverde, Moon Zappa and the Temptations.

Also on the list are the Kansas City Chiefs, Hallmark Cards, the Sara Lee Corporation, Ben & Jerry's, and Blue Cross and Blue Shield of Kansas City.

I'm sure there's a method to the N.R.A. madness, but to tell you the truth, all I can see is the madness."

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/10/13/opinion/13HERB.html?adxnnl=1&adxnnlx=1066045127-NegMvPiv6bnP6QgL5Goklw

Nice to see what extremist scum the gun lobby really is....

[MrBenchley]

1. You can join the list too!

Join the A.F.L.-C.I.O., the American Academy of Pediatrics, the Children's Defense Fund, the Lutheran Office for Governmental Affairs, the United States Catholic Conference, the U.S. Conference of Mayors, the Y.W.C.A. of the U.S.A., Dr. Joyce Brothers, Candice Bergen, Walter Cronkite, Doug Flutie, Michelle Pfeiffer, Vinny Testaverde, Moon Zappa, the Temptations, the Kansas City Chiefs, Hallmark Cards, the Sara Lee Corporation, Ben & Jerry's, and Blue Cross and Blue Shield of Kansas City on the NRA's hate list.

http://www.nrablacklist.com/

[LibLabUK]

2. Hmm

Wouldn't it be easier for the NRA just to post a "Who's not on our list" list?

Is there a list of organisations/companies that do support/contribute to the NRA?

[CO Liberal]

3. Yes - The Republican Party

Their parent corporation.......

[MrBenchley]

5. LOL!!

Clearly the way to go is to turn our backs on the entire rest of America and pander to a tiny extremist fringe.....NOT.

[MrBenchley]

4. It's basically

the gun industry and a handful of loonies...

[Name removed]

6. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[StClone]

9. Like Clark says

If you want to shoot guns join Bush "Peace Parade" in Iraq you animal.

[GOPFighter]

7. Sobering Statistic

"Between 1968, the year of Johnson's failure to get his legislation passed, and 2001, the last year for which complete statistics are available, more than one million Americans were killed by firearms."

Puts the death toll in Iraq in perspective, doesn't it?

[MrBenchley]

10. Yup

NNo other civilized country is willing to put up with anything near that level of bloodshed just to pander to a corrupt industry and a handful of loonies....

[Wcross]

138. Including suicide right? n/t

[slackmaster]

8. A link to the actual lists

Since Mr. Herbert did not bother to provide a link to the actual data, I looked it up. There are actually multiple lists of organizations and individuals that the NRA apparently considers to be anti-gun. Also some background information on anti-gun lobbying groups.

http://www.nraila.org/library.asp?type=Pro%2DGun+Groups+%26+Anti%2DGun+Groups&FormMode=Filter&IID=011

[MrBenchley]

11. Yup...look at the people these screwlooses hate...

Let's hear the RKBA crowd tell us how "biased" they are....


"American Association of School Administrators
American Association for the Surgery of Trauma
American Bar Association
American Civil Liberties Union
American Medical Association
American Trauma Society
National Association of Community Health Centers
National Association of Police Organizations
National Association of School Psychologists
National Coalition Against Domestic Violence
National Education Association
National Safe Kids Campaign
Physicians for Social Responsibility
Dehere Foundation
Harris Foundation
Hechinger Foundation
Joyce Foundation
Lauder Foundation
Lawrence Foundation
Ortenberg Foundation
Police Foundation
H.M. Strong Foundation
Florence and John Shumann Foundation
The Council of the Great City Schools
U.S. Catholic Conference, Dept. of Social Development
Committee for the Study of Handgun Misuse & World Peace
Common Cause
Children s Defense Fund
Disarm Educational Fund
George Gund FundAmbulatory Pediatric Association
American Academy of Ambulatory Care Nursing
American Academy of Child & Adolescent Psychiatry
American Academy of Pediatrics
American Association of Family and Consumer Sciences
American Association for World Health
American Association of Neurological Surgeons
American Association of Retired Persons
American Counseling Association
American Ethical Union
American Federation of Teachers
American Firearms Association
American Jewish Committee
American Jewish Congress
American Medical Association
American Medical Student Association
American Medical Women's Association
American Nurses Association
American Psychological Association
American Public Health Association
American Trauma Society
Americans for Democratic Action
Anti-Defamation League
Association of American Medical Colleges
B'nai B'rith
Black Mental Health Alliance
Central Conference of American Rabbis
Children's Defense Fund
Church of the Brethren
Coalition to Stop Gun Violence
Coalition for Peace Action
College Democrats of America
Congress of National Black Churches, Inc.
Congress of Neurological Surgeons
Consumer Federation of America
Council of Chief State School Officers
Council of the Great City Schools
Environmental Action Foundation
Episcopal Church-Washington Office
Friends Committee on National Legislation
General Federation of Women's Clubs
Gray Panthers
Hadassah
Interfaith Neighbors
Int'l Association of Educators for World Peace
Int'l Ladies' Garment Workers' Union
Jewish Labor Committee
League of Women Voters of the United States*
Lutheran Office for Governmental Affairs, Evangelical Lutheran Church in America
Manhattan Project II
Mennonite Central Committee-Washington Office
National Assembly of National Voluntary Health & Social Welfare Organizations
National Association for the Advancement of Colored People
National Association of Chain Drug Stores
National Association of Children's Hospitals and Related Institutions
National Association of Counties*
National Association of Pediatric Nurse Associates & Practitioners
National Association of School Safety and Law Enforcement Officers
National Association of Elementary School Principals*"

[0rganism]

23. They blacklisted the American Firearms Association?

There's something kind of oddball about that. This business is more complicated than I originally suspected.

And they blacklisted Ann Rice, presumably because she can only be harmed with bullets made from melted-down silver crosses.

[MrBenchley]

25. Here's another bunch of loonies wailing about the AFA

"Take your blood pressure medication before you visit this site. It pretends to be on the side of law abiding gun owners, proclaiming that compromise is the only way to approach gun ownership. It prides itself in being a home for NRA refugees. Backed by gun grabbers, supported by the same misguided folks that nearly brought the NRA to its knees a few short years ago, the American Firearms Association is no friend of gun owners. Don't encourage them, don't support them, and most of all DON'T BE FOOLED into thinking they care about your firearms rights. "

http://www.gunsmoke.com/scot/guns/firearms_internet.html

Seems like the same mindless "gun rights" horseshit being peddled there as anywhere else...and despite the crap about "mothers, fathers, sisters, brothers, grandparents, friends, children blah blah blah", it seems to be run by a PA gun club.

http://www.firearms.org/

You will notice some of the "celebrities" mentioned are mighty small potatoes...(Kevin Spirtas?)...pretty sccummy for a national organization like this to target them for petty political reasons..

[MrBenchley]

12. Some more people that gun nuts are urged to hate

"National Organization for Women
National Organization on Disability
National Parks and Conservation Association
National Peace Foundation
National People's Action
National Political Congress of Black Women
National Parent, Teachers Association*
National SAFE KIDS Campaign
National Spinal Cord Injury Association
National Urban Coalition
National Urban League, Inc.
NETWORK: A National Catholic Social Justice Lobby
Peace Action
People for the American Way
Physicians for Social Responsibility
Project on Demilitarization and Democracy
Public Citizen
SaferWorld
Society of Critical Care Medicine
Southern Christian Leadership Conference
The Synergetic Society
Union of American Hebrew Congregations
Unitarian Universalist Association
United Church of Christ, Office for Church in Society*
United Methodist Church, General Board & Church Society
United States Catholic Conference
United States Conference of Mayors
War and Peace Foundation
Women's National Democratic Club
Women Strike for Peace
Women's Action for New Directions (WAND)
Women's Int'l League for Peace and Freedom
World Spiritual Assembly, Inc.
YWCA of the U.S.A.
20/20 Vision"

[CO Liberal]

13. Guess You Really Have to Watch Those Folks Down at the YWCA

:-)

[GOPFighter]

15. AND the Gray Panthers!

:scared:

[MrBenchley]

18. You might recall

Ronald Reagan let Soviet Spy Robert Hanssen into cabinet meetings so that he could hear Hanssen's reports on how "subversive" the Gray Panthers were....

"Gray Panthers work on multiple issues that include: Peace, Jobs for All, Housing, Anti-Discrimination (ageism, sexism, racism), Family Security, Environment, Campaign Reform, and the United Nations. Over the years, Gray Panthers stopped forced retirement at age 65, exposed nursing home abuse, and worked in coalition for Universal Health Care. Gray Panthers mobilize voters on a variety of issues. Respected by their local, state and federal officials, Gray Panthers speak out on the issues that affect us all. Nationally, Gray Panthers fight to expand health care programs, promote peace, earn greater rights for the disabled, and create decent housing. We believe that together, we can make a difference. "

http://www.graypanthers.org/graypanthers/info.htm

<sarcasm>Yeah, THERE's vicious anti-gun scum...</sarcasm>

[MrBenchley]

16. LOL!!

I don't think any of us gun control folks could do nearly as dandy a job showing what an extremist fringe the NRA and their ilk represent as this hate list does...

Never underestimate the RKBA crowd's penchant for inadvertant hilarity...

[MrBenchley]

14. Leonard Nimoy? Yup...gun nuts HATE Leonard Nimoy...

Remember, Mr. Spock used to pinch people on the shoulder instead of shooting them with his ray gun...only an extremely anti-gun person (or extraterrestrial) would do something like that....thank Koresh the NRA has exposed him and his evil for their inbred ignorant members!


"Krista Allen - Actress
Suzy Amis - Actress
Louis Anderson - Comedian
Richard Dean Anderson - Actor
Maya Angelou - Poet
David Arquette - Actor
Ed Asner - Actor
Alec Baldwin - Actor
Bob Barker - TV Personality
Carol Bayer Sager - Composer
Drew Barrymore - Actress
Kevin Bacon - Actor
Lauren Bacall - Actress*
Sarah Ban Breathnach - Writer
William Baldwin - Actor
Candice Bergen - Actress
Richard Belzer - Actor
Tony Bennett - Singer
Boys II Men - Pop Group
Jon Bon Jovi - Singer
Peter Bogdonovich - Director
Peter Bonerz - Actor
Albert Brooks - Actor
Beau Bridges - Actor
Benjamin Bratt - Actor
Bonnie Bruckheimer - Movie Producer
Christie Brinkley - Model
Dr. Joyce Brothers - Psychologist/Author
James Brolin - Actor
James Brooks - TV Producer
Mel Brooks - Actor/Director
Steven Brill - Author
Betty Buckley - Actress
Ellen Burstyn - Actress
Steve Buscemi - Actor
David Canary - Actor
Kate Capshaw - Actress
Josh Charles - Actor
Julia Child - Author/Chef*
Robert Chartloff - Producer
Stockard Channing - Actress
Russell Simmons - Record Producer
Jill Clayburgh - Actress
Rosemary Clooney - Singer
Terri Clark - Singer
Jackie Cooper - Actor/Director*
Jennifer Connolly - Actress
Judy Collins - Singer
Kevin Costner - Actor
Sean Connery - Actor
Sheryl Crow - Singer
Walter Cronkite - Frmr News Anchor
Billy Crystal- Actor
July Cypher - Director
Bill D'Elia
Arlene Dahl - Actress
Clive Davis - Writer
Linda Dano - Actress
Matt Damon - Actor
Pam Dawber - Actress
Patrika Darbo - Actress
Stuart Damon - Actor
Ellen Degeneres - Actress
Gavin de Becker - Writer
Rebecca DeMornay - Actress
Danny DeVito - Actor
Michael Douglas - Actor
Phil Donahue - Talk Show Host
Richard Donner - Director
Fran Drescher - Actress
Richard Dreyfus - Actor
David Duchovny - Actor
Sandy Duncan - Actress
Christine Ebersole - Actress
Kenneth "Babyface" Edmonds - Singer
Missy Elliott - Singer
Nora Ephron - Director
Gloria Estefan - Singer
Melissa Etheridge - Singer
Mia Farrow - Actress
Mike Farrell - Actor
Carrie Fisher - Actress
Sally Field - Actress
Doug Flutie - NFL player
Fannie Flagg - Actress
Jane Fonda - Actress
Rick Fox - NBA Player
Andy Garcia - Actor
Art Garfunkel - Singer
Estelle Getty - Actress
Geraldo - TV personality
Richard Gere - Actor
Kathie Lee Gifford - TV personality
Paul Glaser - TV director
Brad Gooch - Writer
Elliott Gould - Actor
Louis Gossett, Jr. - Actor
Michael Gross - Actor
Nancy Lee Grahn - Actress
Spalding Gray - Actor
Bryant Gumbel - TV Personality
Deidra Hall - Actress
Ethan Hawke - Actor
Mariette Hartley - Actress
Mark Harmon - Actor
Anne Heche - Actress
Howard Hessman - Actor
Marilu Henner - Actress
Hal Holbrook - Actor*
Whitney Houston - Singer
Helen Hunt - Actress
Grace-Lynne Ingle - Actress
John Ingle - Actor
Francesca James - TV Producer
Norman Jewison - Director
Lainie Kazan - Actress
Richard Karn - Actor
Jeffrey Katzenberg - Producer
Barry Kemp - TV Producer
David E. Kelley - TV Producer
Diane Keaton - Actress
Margaret Kemp - Interior Designer
Chaka Khan - Singer
Coreta Scott King - Activist
Kevin Kline - Actor
Michael E. Knight - Actor
Jonathan Kozol - Writer
William Kovacs - Director
Lenny Kravits - Singer
Lisa Kudrow - Actress
Wally Kurth - Actor
Christine Lahti - Actress
k.d. lang - Singer
Ricki Lake - TV personality
Denis Leary - Actor
John Leguizamo - Actor
Norman Lear - TV Producer
Spike Lee - Director
Hal Linden - Actor
Lisa Linde - Actress
Tara Lipinski - Former Olympian
Keyshawn Johnson - NFL player
Rob Lowe - Actor
Amanda Marshall - Singer
Barry Manilow - Singer
Camryn Manheim - Actress
Howie Mandel - Actor
Kyle MacLachlan - Actor
Madonna - Singer
Marla Maples - Actress
Marsha Mason - Actress*
Mase - Singer
Penny Marshall - Director
Prema Mathai-Davis - YWCA Official
John McDaniel - Musician
John McEnroe - Athlete
Brian McKnight - Musician
Ed McMahon - TV personality
Natalie Merchant - Singer
Bette Midler - Singer
Shane Minor - Musician
Mary Tyler Moore - Actress
Norval Morris - Law Professor
Mike Myers - Actor
N Sync - Singer
Kathy Najimy - Actress
Paul Newman - Actor
Jack Nicholson - Actor
Leonard Nimoy - Actor
Mike Nichols - Director
Stephen Nichols - Actor
Rosie O'Donnel - Actress/Talk Show Host
Jennifer O Neill - Actress
Julia Ormond - Actress
Jane Pauley - TV Personality
Sarah Jessica Parker - Actress
Mandy Patinkin - Actor
Rhea Perlman- Actress
Michelle Pfieffer - Actress
Sydney Pollack - Director
Aidan Quinn - Actor
Colin Quinn - Actor
Dennis Quaid - Actor
Elizabeth Bracco Quinn - Actress
Bonnie Raitt - Singer
Debbie Reynolds - Actress
Mary Lou Retton - Former Olympian
Paul Reiser - Actor
Peter Reckell - Actor
Rob Reiner - Actor/Director
Robert Redford - Actor/Director
Anne Rice - Writer
Cathy Rigby - Actress
Natasha Richardson - Actress
Julia Roberts - Actress"

[DBoon]

21. Bon Jovi??

So hair metal is anti-NRA?


The NRA has doen what I thought impossible - made me suddenly respect a lot of half-celebrities.

Like a couple of years ago I NEVER thought I'd ever listen to the Dixie Chicks.


Now why didn't Ozzie Osbourne make the list? That would have made my day....

[MrBenchley]

24. Want proof the NRA is a bunch of lunatics?

Who else thinks "Krista Allen," "John Ingle," and "Peter Reckell" are CELEBRITIES?

[Name removed]

50. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MrBenchley]

51. Gee, dems, thanks for those "thoughts"

which would not have been out of place at Free Republic...a delightful mix of hysteria and bigotry.

"Ed Asner is a communist and history has taught us how communists feel about guns"
Really, is ANYBODY fooled by this poster?

[demsrule4life]

52. Ed Asner

has stated many times in public that he is. You have a real hangup with the truth.

[MrBenchley]

53. Nice to see red-baiting

from the RKBA crowd...

I don't think you're fooling anyone...and I'd LOVE to see you try and prove this one..

Quick everybody, what do you think his right wing loony source will be?

[demsrule4life]

54. Red baiting?

One thing about Ed at least he has true convictions and he stands by them.

[MrBenchley]

56. Yeah, red baiting...

Another thing about Ed Asner is that at websites where hate-filled right wing loonies congregate, he's commonly called a communist.

http://www.protestwarrior.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=4860

http://www.boycott-hollywood.net/archives/000253.html

http://www.marchonhollywood.com/roll_asner.shtml

http://www.etherzone.com/2003/lang101303.shtml

[CO Liberal]

55. I'm Calling You On That, Dems!!!!

I just did a Google search on < "Ed Asner" + communist > - the only references I found were to right-wing sites such as Free Republic and World Nut Daily.

Please provide a link to a reputable source that supports your statement about Ed Asner being a communist.

[MrBenchley]

57. Good call!

[MrBenchley]

58. You should also check out the "assault weapons ban" thread

Where we actually have an "enthusiast" trying to claim the KKK is NOT racist.

[demsrule4life]

61. Why should I bother?

Why don't you prove I'am wrong? I posted it, I stand by it. I'am not going to get in a debate with two faced anti's. NRA has an agenda. The Brady bunch has an agenda. It is not ok for progun to link to anything by the NRA but it is ok for the anti's to link to anything put out by the Brady bunch. Just for once I would like to see the antigun folks link to a site that is a "reputable source". If you are confused that is a source that post facts and is not either pro or antigun.

[MrBenchley]

62. In other words, it was crap as usual

"It is not ok for progun to link to anything by the NRA but it is ok for the anti's to link to anything put out by the Brady bunch."
That's because the NRA is headed by a bunch of right wing racist turds, dems. And pretty much everything they say is a LIE in some form or other.

"An outspoken Democrat, during the recent presidential campaign, Asner taped a telephone message geared to Senior Citizens on behalf of Al Gore and the DNC.  And he was also part of the demonstration in LA on Inauguration Day that expressed displeasure with the election outcome. ”

http://www.thepetpress-la.com/articles/edasner.htm

" Democrats have begun making tens of thousands of recorded phone calls featuring actor Ed Asner assailing George W. Bush's Social Security plan.
The calls, begun over the weekend in several battleground states, echo the message being delivered this week in more than $10 million worth of television advertising."

http://www.stater.kent.edu/stories_old/00fall/102400/W1023socialsecurityAP.html

[demsrule4life]

65. How does this have anything to do with me

calling him a communist?

[CO Liberal]

67. You Called Ed Asner a Communist

MrBenchley provided links showing him to be a Democrat.

Your turn.

[MrBenchley]

68. Well, as we've seen, that claim was crap

but thanks for pretending that Democrats are communists...

[CO Liberal]

66. Last Time I Looked, Dems, I Only Had One Face

It's not the best looking one in the world, but it's served me well for over 50 years.

[MrBenchley]

69. Helluva carnival, isn't it?

Between the "enthusiast" claiming the KKK wasn't racist, and this stuff...it's been loads of laughs...

[RoeBear]

71. You showed me two faces the other day...

...one when you said you weren't a gun banner the other when you said you would support any law that will save one life. Can't have it both ways.

[CO Liberal]

77. There's a Difference.....

....between banning a specific class of weapon and confiscating all guns. Too many pro-gunners fail to recognize this.

[DoNotRefill]

78. CO...You're a gun banner.

You said there are certain classes of weapons you want to ban. Claiming that you aren't a gun banner after saying that is just silly. Let me show you why. Suppose somebody has sex with somebody else against their will, and the person gets arrested and convicted of rape. Can he claim he's not a rapist? After all, he didn't rape EVERYBODY, did he? He just raped the one person, right? This is the same thing, except without the sex, arrest, and trial. You admit you want to ban some guns, but say you don't want to ban them all. I'm sorry, CO, but that makes you a gun banner. You don't have to want to ban ALL guns to be a gun banner, wanting to ban ONE gun is enough.

[MrBenchley]

79. So the AWB is like rape to the RKBA crowd?

Uh-huh. Ho-kay.

[CO Liberal]

81. If That's The Case.....

...I'll wear the label of "gun banner" with pride, they same way I wear the labels of "liberal", Democrat", "loving husband" and "devoted father".

[demsrule4life]

82. There was no question in my mind that

you werent a gun banner. I don't argee with you of course, but I respect a person more if he says this is what I am and now try your best to change my mind. :) And I will still say that Ed is a communist. He has given to much money to communist causes and in my book actions speak louder then words. He is a member or at the very least has done work for the DSOA party. I have spent time in the old DDR and I have seen first hand on how "socialist democratic" governments treat their people. Our country has alot of faults but at least we dont shoot anybody if they try to leave. I might be wrong, hell I'am wrong alot but I have a hard time telling the difference between a hard core "socialist" and a communist by what I have seen in my travels. And one thing I do know that is that hardcore socialist/communists are antigun, and for good reason in the real world the common people don't want to live under that system.


DSOC also drew to its banner a number of well-known public figures, such as Machinists' Union leader William Winpisinger, feminist Gloria Steinem, gay rights activist Harry Britt, actor Ed Asner, and California Congressman Ron Dellums, the first avowed socialist in Congress since World War Two.
http://dsausa.org/about/history.html

[MrBenchley]

83. So now Gloria Steinem is a Commie too, dems?

You really ARE a pip...

"FORMER REP. RON DELLUMS: Well, I think the quote that described my election says it all. The quote that went around the nation and around the world was: "Afro-top, bell-bottomed, radical black man from Berkeley wins election," and that’s how I walked in the door. And so I was perceived as the left-wing, Commie, Pinko, Black Panther from the Bay area that walked into Congress.

ELIZABETH FARNSWORTH: When you were made a member of the Armed Services Committee, what happened when you first went in to sit on the committee?

FORMER REP. RON DELLUMS: Well, at first, you know, they turned me down. And they turned me down because I was ostensibly a security risk because I was from Berkeley. They said, we’ll never be able to have secret meetings; this guy will expose--it was bizarre--it was extreme. Remember, in Richard Nixon’s top ten enemy list I appear as number six on that list.

FORMER REP. RON DELLUMS: Right off the top, it would clearly be bringing sanctions against South Africa that led--helped lead to the freedom of Mandela and the freedom of the people of South Africa and a new reality in South Africa. When I first introduced the legislation to bring sanctions against South Africa, I was joined with one of my fellow African-American colleagues, John Conyers, after we had met with Polaroid workers back in 1972. And so when we introduced the bill to bring sanctions and disinvestment of American corporations in South Africa, it was a Berkeley, Commie, Pinko, Socialist idea, but later on it became an idea that people all over this country embraced because they understood it. "

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/congress/jan-june98/dellums_2-12.html

"It's a very dignified place, you get cut up with a smile and with a great... I'd say, "Would the gentleman yield for a few questions? Has the gentleman ever received free medical care from the House position?" Because we have an entire staff to take care of us because we make important decisions that affect many people's lives, so we have to stay healthy. He would reluctantly then say, "Yes." Second question, "Will the gentleman yield further?" "Yes." "Have you ever received free medicine from the House position?" He would say yes. I would say, "When you needed to be hospitalized at Walter Reed or Bethesda Hospital, were you treated as a private, a PFC or were you treated better than the general?" "The latter." I would say, "I thank the gentleman for his candid responses." I would suggest to him if that's not creeping socialism, what is it?
But for the elite, you see, for the elite, and that's the point that I would like very much to drive home to you, is that some of us, because of our station in life, have benefits that people because of their lack of that station do not have."

http://www.commonwealthclub.org/archive/20thcentury/71-11dellums-speech.html

It's certainly swell to see good old fashioned 50s-style red-baiting on the pages of DU....what's next from the RKBA crowd, Ann Coulter's opinion on gun control?

[demsrule4life]

84. Her name was on the link

dont recall me, myself or I saying that. Only person I said was Ed and Jane, since I havent caught any crap about Jane am I right?

[MrBenchley]

85. Now what the hell are you babbling about?

"Only person I said was Ed and Jane"
So "Ed and Jane" is the ONLY person you're red-baiting? Koresh, the RKBA crowd's penchant for inadvertant hilarity grows ever stronger!

So which Jane are you spouting right wing rubbish about? Fonda or Pauley? Both of them turn out to be "enemies" of these racist scumbags at the NRA.

[demsrule4life]

86. The question should be

"Now what the hell are you babbling about?"

I just noticed that Flash deleted the orginal post, I said Jane "someday we should all be lucky to be communist" Fonda.

[MrBenchley]

88. That's what I ask after many RKBA posts...

"I said Jane "someday we should all be lucky to be communist" Fonda. "
Really, why ARE you here? It's not like you're fooling anyone any more by posting this far right wing crap.

http://urbanlegends.about.com/library/weekly/aa110399.htm

[demsrule4life]

90. That is a fair question

I do have alot of soul searching to do. I'am sorry if I sound like I belong to the right but I have never belonged or voted for a repug, I don't belong to the NRA and I hate any group that preaches hate. Maybe I'am just to much in the center to belong to any party.

[MrBenchley]

95. Doesn't sound like anybody

shouting "__________ is a communist" at the drop of a hat is anywhere near the center to me.

Did anybody ever tell you that McCarthyism died about 1955 or so?

[demsrule4life]

96. Sounds like someone

that is in the center and who is sick and tired of all the fighting between the far right and far left. When I did that post about my "thoughts" was trying to add some levity into the thread. Guess I messed that up.

[MrBenchley]

97. Yeah, that Joe McCarthy...what a kidder!

[CO Liberal]

100. You Will Never Change My Mind

Others have tried on this forum, and most of them have earned little tombstones for their effort.

[demsrule4life]

101. Never said I could

But I do respect a man that sticks to their beliefs even if I agree with them or not.

[DoNotRefill]

103. to each his own....

hell, some people bear the label "Copropheliac" with pride...

[RoeBear]

152. So it's ok to ban guns...

...if you just do a couple at a time. I get it.

[CO Liberal]

153. And To Your Way of Thinking....

...it's OK for any moron to get his hands on any fire power they want. I respectfully disagree.

[damnraddem]

17. And the entire states of Kansas and Nebraska ...

two of the last states that do not allow concealed carry. It's scary how few states have been able to stand up to the true American terrorists -- the NRA.

[MrBenchley]

19. Exactly so...

Just look at their range of "enemies"....it's pretty much every decent person in America...

[DocSavage]

70. Kansas will have Right to Carry

This will be presented within a year. And it will pass.

I have not now nor have I been a member of the NRA, I am however a supporter of the 2nd Ammendment.

[MrBenchley]

80. Whether the citizens want it or not

thanks to the GOP and their willingness to pander to a handful of neurotics and the corrupt gun industry.

[DBoon]

20. They forgot one important anti-gun group

DU

[slackmaster]

22. Maybe they don't think DU is important enough

Either that, or the diversity of opinion here prevents its classification as anti-gun per se. Pro-gun views are tolerated here.

[Emoto]

26. Glad to have that list!

It is always good to know who has been working on taking away our civil rights.

[CO Liberal]

27. Be Sure to Keep an Eye on the YWCA.....

Who knows WHAT they're planning in the locker rooms?

:-)

[MrBenchley]

28. Even funnier to see

that claim....

Yeah, just look at these people <sarcasm>"taking away our civil rights."</sarcasm>

American Bar Association
American Civil Liberties Union
American Medical Association
National Education Association
Common Cause
Children s Defense Fund
American Association of Retired Persons
American Ethical Union
American Federation of Teachers
College Democrats of America
Congress of National Black Churches, Inc.
Congress of Neurological Surgeons
Consumer Federation of America
Int'l Ladies' Garment Workers' Union
League of Women Voters of the United States
National Association for the Advancement of Colored People
National Center to Rehabilitate Violent Youth
National Council of La Raza
National Council of Negro Women
National Council on Family Relations
National Education Association
National Political Congress of Black Women
National Parent, Teachers Association
National SAFE KIDS Campaign
National Spinal Cord Injury Association
National Urban Coalition
National Urban League, Inc.
Women's National Democratic Club"

Wow, what a ruthless freedom hating bunch of despots...NOT.

For the RKBA crowd, THESE are the sort of folks defending "our" civil rights....

"The so-called gun control bill enacted by the government is nothing but anti-self defense laws designed to disarm law abiding citizens. The right to own guns as guaranteed by the 2nd amendment to the United States Constitution must be protected. Gun ownership is NOT a privilege, it’s a CONSTITUTIONALLY PROTECTED RIGHT!!! The Texas Knights work to completely restore the right of all law-abiding citizens to keep and bear arms."

http://www.texaskkk.com/platform.htm

[BullDozer]

29. Too bad

that you dislike that an organization keeps track of groups and person who activily work to oppose them. This is exactly something I expect that any advocacy group does and something that members of a group deserve to receive as a service.



The following organizations have lent monetary, grassroots or some other type of direct support to anti-gun organizations. In many instances, these organizations lent their name in support of specific campaigns to pass anti-gun legislation such as the March 1995 HCI "Campaign to Protect Sane Gun Laws." Many of these organizations were listed as "Campaign Partners," for having pledged to fight any efforts to repeal the Brady Act and the Clinton "assault weapons" ban. All have officially endorsed anti-gun positions

The following celebrities and national figures have lent their name and notoriety to anti-gun causes, speaking out for anti-gun legislation and providing a voice for anti-gun organizations.

The following listing includes the most prominent national corporations that have lent their corporate support to gun control initiatives or taken position supporting gun control.

[MrBenchley]

30. Gee, dozer

Seems like pretty much every group of sane people everybody's ever heard of seems to be anti-gunn to the asswipes of the NRA.

"This is exactly something I expect that any advocacy group does"
Really? Let's see some other groups with "enemies lists"....

[BullDozer]

31. And if all of your friends wanted to jump off of a bridge

Let's see some other groups with "enemies lists"....

Well since the NRA doesn't have an "enemies list" I guess you are screwed on that one bub.

Peddle your spin cycle right on out of here.

[MrBenchley]

32. The hell the NRA doesn't have an enemies list...

And all of MY friends don't have several screws loose....unlike the NRA and their supporters.

[BullDozer]

33. Is that so?

. The hell the NRA doesn't have an enemies list...

Care to point me to the NRAs enemies list? No not the lists that YOU are spinning the label of enemies list onto. The list the the NRA itself calls their enemies list is what you need to show.

And all of MY friends don't have several screws loose

Now that IS funny!!!!!!!!!

[MrBenchley]

34. Yeah, that's so.....

You can spin until you're blue in the face, dozer. It's an enemies list....and like Nixon's original, it's an honor to be on it.

So where are all these advocacy groups you claimed had similar lists?


Here's a link to a list of some groups....

http://www.worldadvocacy.com/

Let's try a few...

http://www.wrongfuldeathinstitute.com/

No enemies list there....

http://www.actagainstviolence.org/

None there either...

http://www.nabe.org/links.asp

None there either...although there certainly are enemies of bilingualism...for example, the racist "English Only" groups so many RKBA leaders also head up....

[BullDozer]

35. Whatever

It's an enemies list

Sez you are your feeble spin machine

[RoeBear]

36. I'd say it's fair to call it an enemies list...

...I'd bet though that the NRA calls it an enemies of gun freedom list.

And I like the writers lack of bias: ""All of the groups and individuals listed are supposed to be anti-gun. I can't speak for the Kansas City Chiefs or Moon Zappa, but I'm not anti-gun. I think soldiers, the police and certain other law enforcement officials should have guns. Civilians, however, should be required to demonstrate a good reason for having firearms. We should go to great lengths to keep guns out of the hands of children, criminals and insane people. All guns should be registered. And all gun owners should be properly trained and licensed."

No gun banner he. Suuurrre!

[MrBenchley]

38. Sounds good to me, roe...

but then I don't have a gun fetish...or need to pretend that the Kansas City Chiefs, NAACP and Candice Bergen are threats to freedom.

[CO Liberal]

39. There's a difference, RoeBear......

Between registering guns, training and licensing gun owners, and banning guns. They are three separate concepts.

[RoeBear]

40. Do you fully agree with the writer's comment:

"Civilians, however, should be required to demonstrate a good reason for having firearms."

If so, what would you consider a good reason for owning a gun. I, personally, would say a good reason for owning one is because you want to own one.

[CO Liberal]

41. And a Bad Reason Would Be.....

...."I want to rob people."

:-)

[MrBenchley]

42. In my entire lifetime

I've never met anyone who "had to have" a gun who wasn't either a raving nutcase or a lowlife.

[DoNotRefill]

106. I'm sure the police appreciate your opinion of them....

Make sure you tell them that they're lowlifes and raving nutcases the next time you get a speeding ticket or go through a sobriety checkpoint... :evilgrin:

[demsrule4life]

107. Something new I just found out

cops now have alcohol detecting dogs for those checkpoints. Before I retired my nose worked just fine, but a dogs nose is always better.

[MrBenchley]

110. Gee, refill

Try spinning a bit harder next time...you haven't quite reached escape velocity.

[RoeBear]

43. I guess we are in agreement then...

...we'll add that question to the 4473 and see what happens.

[MrBenchley]

37. It's an enemies list

and I guess that claim other advocacy groups had them is a load.....

[BullDozer]

44. I suggest that

You should learn to use the cut and past feature of your computer since you are so clearly unable to accurately quote people on a consistent basis.


"This is exactly something I expect that any advocacy group does and something that members of a group deserve to receive as a service."

To those of us that comprehend English that is clearly not a blanket claim that all advocacy groups have lists of those in opposition to their goals.

and I guess that claim other advocacy groups had them is a load.....

Gee bunkley who do you think can meet the burden of proof first, you who will have to show that the NRA is the only group to have a similar list or I who just has to find one group who has one?

Ooops I guess you lose http://www.splcenter.org/intel/intelreport/article.jsp?aid=50.
(you will have to look at the link as SPL has a copyright disclaimer in place "Reproduction of material from any SPLCenter.org pages is strictly prohibited.")

I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with the contents of that link it's merely used to show that groups do indeed produce lists similar to that which the NRA has.

Is it supposed to my fault that members of some groups don't get the same service from theirs that others can get from the NRA for $10 a year? I happen to like having a list of National Organizations With Anti-Gun Policies and Anti-Gun Lobbying Organizations available to me.

You can whine all you want but until you can show that it's an enemies list and not merely a list of those who support or are vocal about their support of positions contrary to that which the NRA takes then once again you don't have a leg to stand on.

[MrBenchley]

45. I appreciate the suggestion, dozer, really.....

After all, it's not like there's anything but the same tedious distortions from you post after post after post.

"I guess you lose http://www.splcenter.org/intel/intelreport/article.jsp?aid=50"
Too too funny...a list of right wing hate groups corresponds to the NRA's hit list in your book?

"I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with the contents of that link it's merely used to show that groups do indeed produce lists similar to that which the NRA has."
So a group listing foundations that generate right wing rubbish is supposed to be similar to this idiotic enemies list by the NRA? Who the hell are you trying to kid?

"An array of right-wing foundations and think tanks support efforts to make bigoted and discredited ideas respectable"
Joined by the RKBA crowd here, evidently.

[BullDozer]

46. Follow along now......

After all, it's not like there's anything but the same tedious distortions from you post after post after post.

I'm sure you really meant to send that to yourself since that's where it's true.

So a group listing foundations that generate right wing rubbish is supposed to be similar to this idiotic enemies list by the NRA? Who the hell are you trying to kid?

Duh! It's not the contents of the list that matter it's the purpose of the list. SPLs list is for the same purpose as the NRAs list, to tell the people who see the list that the groups and persons on the list are against the side of the list creator.

Got it now?

[MrBenchley]

47. Gee, dozer, it's funny as hell to see you claiming

content don't matter...

[BullDozer]

48. blindness is bliss?

For the specific purpose of the point that you are so dutifully missing, the content of the list doesn't matter.

[MrBenchley]

49. Who the hell arre you trying to kid?

Content means everything in this context.

Why don't you tell us how Vinny Testaverde is "anti-gun."

How about the American Academy of Pediatrics? Tell us what makes them "anti-gun."

How about the National Organization on Disability?

[BullDozer]

60. Weep away

Content means everything in this context.

The contents of a list are irrelevant for the purpose of disproving your assertion that the claim of other advocacy groups having lists for a similar purpose is "a load", only the existence of the list is required.

Your claim was that "and I guess that claim other advocacy groups had them is a load....." and you have been shown to be wrong about that.

Why don't you tell us how Vinny Testaverde is "anti-gun."

According to http://www.stopgunviolence.org/Supporters.html he lent his name to the gun control cause, speaking for gun legislation and provided a voice for gun control advocates.

I'll wager he opened his mouth and said something stupid like "Guns are bad Mmmmkay?"


How about the American Academy of Pediatrics? Tell us what makes them "anti-gun."

All from their web site:

"Use the Child Health Month observance as a context for establishing a new procedure, such as placing a small sticker bearing the image of a gun on patient charts to indicate the family keeps firearms at home. This will serve as a reminder to include firearm safety counseling during routine visits"

Right pediatricians giving firearms advice! Especially when "Some 76 percent (of the pediatricians surveyed) said they do not own guns" I'm sure they learned alot about firearms safety in medical school. Was that class a basic requirement like organic chemistry or is it an advanced elective?

"Two percent of pediatricians are involved in promoting gun control. The same proportion, 2 percent, are also members of gun control organizations"

"Among those surveyed, 92 percent agree or strongly agree that pediatricians should support legislation to restrict possession or sale of handguns. "

"Some 77 percent of the physicians surveyed agree or strongly agree that pediatricians should support legislation to ban possession or sale of handguns. "

"18 percent of the physicians surveyed stated that they always recommend that handguns be removed from their patients' homes. "

June 17, 1998 The American Academy of Pediatrics endorsed "Children's Gun Violence Prevention Act of l998 introduced by Rep. Carolyn McCarthy (D-NY).

How about the National Organization on Disability?

Gee I dunno how about having a raving antigun lunatic as their Vice Chairman?
http://www.bradycampaign.org/about/jim.asp

[MrBenchley]

64. Hahahahahahahahaha!!

Yeah, dozer....be sure and tell us content is meaningless..

"According to http://www.stopgunviolence.org/Supporters.html he lent his name to the gun control cause, speaking for gun legislation and provided a voice for gun control advocates.
I'll wager he opened his mouth and said something stupid like "Guns are bad Mmmmkay?""
Or maybe he mentioned what a extremist and dishonest bunch of right wing loonies the NRA was.

"Right pediatricians giving firearms advice! "
Yeah, imagine that dozer.

"The American Academy of Pediatrics endorsed "Children's Gun Violence Prevention Act of l998 introduced by Rep. Carolyn McCarthy (D-NY)."
Wow! Legislation proposed by a Democrat. The outrages never cease, eh, dozer?

[BullDozer]

72. whatever Bub

Yeah, dozer....be sure and tell us content is meaningless..

Anyone with a lick of sense can follow the conversation and see that for the purposes of making my point the content of the lists do not matter one stinking bit. But please feel free to try and show how the content of a list will somehow show that other advocacy groups do not keep similar lists.

"Right pediatricians giving firearms advice! "
Yeah, imagine that dozer.

I guess I should start asking my gunsmiths for medical advice then by your "logic".

Wow! Legislation proposed by a Democrat. The outrages never cease, eh, dozer?

Damn straight. I'm well within my rights and obligations to disagree with something that someone with a D after their name says or does.

[MrBenchley]

74. Anyone with a lick of sense?

Hahahahahahahhahha......content doesn't matter, all right.

"I'm well within my rights and obligations to disagree with something that someone with a D after their name says or does."
Yeah, surrrrrrrrrrrrrre....

[BullDozer]

104. Left you out eh?

content doesn't matter, all right.

But please feel free to try and show how the content of a list will somehow show that other advocacy groups do not keep similar lists.

I'm well within my rights and obligations to disagree with something that someone with a D after their name says or does. The D is not an invisible shield that protects one from criticism.

You can just go right on ahead and march in perfect lock step with whatever anyone with a D after their name says or does, I properly choose to make my wishes known to those you represent me.

[MrBenchley]

109. Nope, left yourself out

"The D is not an invisible shield that protects one from criticism."
Oh, koresh forbid that anybody in the RKBA crowd agree with decent people like the ones on the NRA's enemies list, expecially those with D after their names.

"You can just go right on ahead and march in perfect lock step with whatever anyone with a D after their name says"
No, I think I'll just avoid those pimping for trash like John AshKKKroft and Ted Nugent.

[BullDozer]

113. Are you ever going to get it?

Oh, koresh forbid that anybody in the RKBA crowd agree with decent people like the ones on the NRA's....list, expecially those with D after their names.

I'm sure I'd agree with groups and person from the list on many things they just happen to be on the totally wrong side of the gun issue. Hell I've even told you that Schumer runs about 50-60% good for me on issues other then guns which is where his head is totally up 100% his ass.

To normal people it's not an all or nothing world Benchely, you've seen the post where the NRA and the ACLU are fighting against the same campaign finance reform law, but Gee isn't the ACLU on the NRAs list? How can it be that they are on the same side of that fight?:: sarcasm ::


No, I think I'll just avoid those pimping for trash like John AshKKKroft and Ted Nugent.

As you've been told many many times it's possible to agree with a person or a group on one issue and on absolutely nothing else. I'll once again give you a standard simple example in hopes that you can grasp this very basic concept.

I like pizza.
The KKK likes pizza.

This does not mean I like the KKK.
This also does not mean that I argee with anything the KKK says or does other than our mutual interest in liking pizza.

Do you get it YET?

[MrBenchley]

114. I got it a long time ago, dozer......

"To normal people it's not an all or nothing world Benchely"
Tell it to the people screaming "Waaah! They're going to take my guns!" every two minutes, dozer.

"I like pizza.
The KKK likes pizza."
Hell, LOTS of people like pizza, dozer. What does it say if you patronize a pizza parlor where the guys working the oven wear white hoods?

The NRA pushes a phony gun rights agenda....and considers just about every group of decent people that can be found an enemy. Who ISN'T the NRA's enemy? Well, who else pushes that phony gun rights agenda.

[BullDozer]

121. You got nothing

The NRA pushes a phony gun rights agenda

Seez you and few others.

....and considers just about every group of decent people that can be found an enemy.

No it just lists them as groups who are in favor of guntrol etc. No where except in spin is the list described as enemies.

[MrBenchley]

124. I got more than the RKBA crrowd, dozer....

"groups who are in favor of guntrol etc."
Hahahahahahahaha....

[BullDozer]

129. Thats what it is

A list of groups who are in favor of guntrol etc.

Nothing more than that.

[MrBenchley]

132. It's pretty much every group of decent people

that anyone can think of.....and it shows what extremist loonies the NRA IS.

[BullDozer]

136. Keep whining

It's a list of organizations that have lent monetary, grassroots or other support to anti-gun organizations.

You know what to do if you don't like it.

[MrBenchley]

144. The whining is from NRA supporters, dozer

"You know what to do if you don't like it."
Keep pointing out what an extremist bunch of racist loonies the NRA is.

[BullDozer]

146. Anytime you're ready

I have yet to see you provide a single instance of proof to show that the NRA as an organization is a racist institution.

[MrBenchley]

147. Been there, done that

But don't let actual facts get in the way of your fantasies about the NRA...like them not having an enemies list.

[RoeBear]

59. It's not to hard to find a list...

...when the side that opposes you publishes itself.

http://www.stopgunviolence.org/Supporters.htm

[MrBenchley]

63. Gee, so the NRA is not only ugly

but lazy....

[MrBenchley]

76. By the way, roe...

If gun control is racist, as the RKBA crowd keeps claiming, why are there so many groups devoted to tolerance and diversity onn that list? How come there aren't any racists like Ted Nugent or Larry Pratt there?

[MaidinVermont]

73. BFD unless you're into petty warfare.

The groups helping to secure our right to KBA need help not dismisal.

The 2nd is not a hatrack - it's the constitution.

[MrBenchley]

75. Yeah, Koresh forbid tyrants like the NAACP

or the American Academy of Pediatricians oppress the poor armed neurotic....

"The 2nd is not a hatrack - it's the constitution."
To the RKBA crowd, it IS the entire Constitution...and it's only half as long as it is in real life..

[juancarlos]

87. Hi, MrBenchley,

Do you support the Constitution? If you don't want guns, why don't you work to repeal the 2nd Amendment?

[MrBenchley]

89. Yeah, I do support the Constitution

and I'm not dumb enough to swallow John AshKKKroft's idiotic lies about the Second Amendment.

Tell me this...if the Second Amendment REALLY gave every American an individual right to keep and bear arms, as the National Rifle Association claims, then EVERY gun control law in the nation would be unconstitutional. Yet the NRA has NEVER sued in any court, anywhere, at any time, to overturn a single gun control law. Nor has the Gun Owners of America. Nor any gun manufacturer anywhere.

Why is that? It's sure not because they're afraid to sue...in fact, the NRA (which also claims the entire Bill of Rights refers ONLY to individual rights) is in court RIGHT NOW to overturn campaign finance laws (with Ken Starr and THERE is an Ace to draw to) on the grounds that its COLLECTIVE right to free speech is being infringed.

[Name removed]

92. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MrBenchley]

93. The SC doesn't prohibit lawsuits...

Why doesn't the NRA put its money where its mouth is? Because they know what a crock of crap it is they're selling to their ignorant members.

[DoNotRefill]

98. That shows complete ignorance of how the courts work...

the appropriate term is "grant cert". The Supreme Court accepts maybe 1 out of every 100 cases they're asked to review. It's not like there's a right of appeal to the Supreme Court in most cases...

[MrBenchley]

99. Gee, you'd think

somebody claiming to be so knowledgable about the law would have heard about "lower courts" and the like...

"It's not like there's a right of appeal to the Supreme Court in most cases..."
And it's not like there's any cases TO appeal.

Wonder why that is? Oh, yeah, that's right...the NRA is full of crap and knows it, too.

[BullDozer]

105. And the rest of the story

in fact, the NRA ... is in court RIGHT NOW to overturn campaign finance laws

Yes joined with other groups such as American Civil Liberties Union, California Democratic Party, and the AFL-CIO.


http://www.aclu.org/FreeSpeech/FreeSpeech.cfm?ID=13477&c=20
http://conlaw.usatoday.findlaw.com/supreme_court/docket/2003/september.html

Tell me this...if the Second Amendment REALLY gave every American an individual right to keep and bear arms, as the National Rifle Association claims, then EVERY gun control law in the nation would be unconstitutional.

It's so damn feeble when you fall back on the absolute rights bullcrap.

[MrBenchley]

108. Gee, dozer....

Now show us where the ACLU ever claimed the Bill of Rights confers only individual rights......

So tell us, dozer...how come the NRA and the other gun nut groups NEVER sue? It's pretty feeble to pretend they're right but refraining for some higher purpose...

[BullDozer]

112. All your blah blah blah

Since I'm not aware that the NRA has claimed that the Bill of Rights ONLY address individual rights to the exclusion of any collective rights, which is what you are trying to imply, why don't you just point that out?

where the ACLU ever claimed the Bill of Rights confers only individual rights......

It was shown clearly weeks ago that you don't have a clue what constitutes an individual right and what constitutes a collective right, you can't grasp even the fundamental concept that an individual right can be exercised collectively.

how come the NRA and the other gun nut groups NEVER sue?

Name one constitutional right that has ever been found to be absolute by the supreme court. You can't legally yell fire in a crowded theater now can you? That's the bullshit arguement that you are trying to make here and that pig won't fly.

[MrBenchley]

115. You mean those FACTS, dozer....

Here's the NRA discussing the Bill of Rights, and making that claim. Gee, you'd think before leaping to defend a dishonest racistbunch like the NRA, someone would check out their site to see what it says.

"Those who founded our state and federal governments conferred upon them extensive powers but reserved to the people certain individual freedoms. Citizens demanded that our original federal Constitution be amended to include a Bill of Rights with specific provisions to safeguard cherished individual liberties......The authors of the Bill of Rights made it clear that individual rights were at issue." (and other distortions)

http://www.nraila.org/FactSheets.asp?FormMode=Detail&ID=108


So how come the NRA and the other gun nut groups NEVER sue?

[BullDozer]

122. Try again bub

Now show us where the NRA ever claimed the Bill of Rights confers only individual rights to the exclusion of collective exercising of individual rights.


Your link and quoted passage only shows the NRA discussing the Bill of Rights and individual rights no where are collective rights excluded.

You seem to not understand that individual rights can be exercised collectively.

[Name removed]

125. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[BullDozer]

130. You just don't even learn

You seem to not understand that individual rights can be exercised collectively.

[MrBenchley]

133. I learned a long time ago

what a pantload the RKBA crowd's gun rights rubbish was.

Of course not long ago you were trying to pretend "well regulated" and "unorganized" were synonymous.

[BullDozer]

139. Fish markets are closed on Sundays

Any fish at a market on a Sunday is left over from the day before and isn't fresh bench and this feeble attempt at a red herring is about as rotten as it gets.


You mean where you totally and completely FAILED to show that the label unorganized militia, which is fully detailed in law, somehow invalidates it's existence as detailed under law.

[MrBenchley]

141. But horseshit stinnks 24/7

But DO keep pretending "unorganized" and "well regulated" are synonymous...it puts the utter ridiculousness of the gun rights argument in such stark relief.

[BullDozer]

145. Sticking with the red herring then?

Since you can't seem to win the initial point and you want to play switch the topic I'll play with you on this one then.

Funny how you used to spout off about how the 2nd Amendment really meant the national guard until you were shown that position to be a farce.

But you want to try to use the label of unorganized to somehow make the existence of the unorganized militia under law vanish. It doesn't work that way Bench especially when the militia relationship of the National Guard and the unorganized militia are outlined right next to each other.

Section 311. Militia: composition and classes

(a) The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied
males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section
313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a
declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States
and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the
National Guard.
(b) The classes of the militia are -
(1) the organized militia, which consists of the National Guard
and the Naval Militia; and
(2) the unorganized militia, which consists of the members of
the militia who are not members of the National Guard or the
Naval Militia.

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/ts_search.pl?title=10&sec=311

[MrBenchley]

148. NOW what the hell are you babbling about?

"Funny how you used to spout off about how the 2nd Amendment really meant the national guard"
I still do...as most sane people know, the National Guard is the direct descendant of the Colonial militia...

"Carved into the walkway is a roll call of officers of the east regiment of Mass Bay Colony Militia that eventually became today's Massachusetts National Guard. "

http://www.ngb.army.mil/onguard/31/11/pg15.asp

"The National Guard is the oldest military organization in the United States whose lineage of 357 years of service can be traced back to four units in Massachusetts. The 181st Infantry, 182nd Infantry, 101st Field Artillery and the 101st Engineer Battalion have the oldest lineage in the National Guard and the U.S. Army. They were organized on December 13, 1636 when the General Court of the Massachusetts Bay Colony ordered the organization of the colony's military companies into three regiments, the North, South and East Regiments. The colonists had adopted the English militia system which obligated all males, between the ages of 16 and 60, to possess arms and participate in the defense of the community. The early colonial militia drilled once a week and provided guard details each evening to sound the alarm in case of attack. The growing threat of Pequot Indians to the colony required the militia to be at a high state of readiness.
The Marquis de Lafayette, who commanded a Virginia brigade during America's War of Independence, coined the phrase "Garde Nationale" for his French Revolutionary Army during the French Revolution in the 1790's. Lafayette popularized the term in the United States, during a return visit in 1824, by applying it to all organized militia units in America. The term immediately began to appear in newspapers and magazines as popular slang for the militia.
The 2nd Battalion, 11th Regiment of Artillery, New York Militia, voted to rename itself the "Battalion of National Guards" in 1824 in tribute to Lafayette's command of the Paris militia. New York, by state statute, adopted the term National Guard for its militia during the Civil War. Many states followed New York's lead after the Civil War by renaming their militias "National Guard." The term was not recognized as the militia's formal title by federal legislation until the 1916 National Defense Act."

http://www.delawarenationalguard.com/history/overviewn.html

"The Maryland Militia, which descended into today’s Maryland National Guard, has existed in various forms since the settling of the colony in 1634.  No matter the time or circumstance, Maryland’s citizen-soldiers have always been prepared to answer the call of their colony, state, or nation."

http://www.mdarngrecruiter.com/history.html

"But you want to try to use the label of unorganized to somehow make the existence of the unorganized militia under law vanish."
And YOU want to pretend "unorganized" is synonymous with "well regulated." Now go play your silly semantic games with someone dumb wnough to fall for them.

[MrBenchley]

120. By the way....

Here's the ACLU brief...funny the only plaintiff appears to be the ACLU....don't see the National Rifle Assocciation even mentioned here....

http://www.aclu.org/court/court.cfm?ID=13127&c=261

In fact, from your second link, it appears the NRA stands ALONE in its suit...as does everybody else.

[BullDozer]

123. Did I say that?

No I didn't say they were in the same lawsuit now did I?

in fact, the NRA ... is in court RIGHT NOW to overturn campaign finance laws

Yes joined with other groups such as American Civil Liberties Union, California Democratic Party, and the AFL-CIO.

All joined togther to overturn the BS campaign finance laws. All on the plaintiffs side vs the government.

[MrBenchley]

126. Yes, dozer, you DID...

"joined with other groups"
But it turns out they sued by themselves...and no other group has joined their suit.

[BullDozer]

127. Can you read?

and no other group has joined their suit.

I didn't say that Mr can't-make-an-accurate-quote-to-save-my-life.

You whined that they were suing to over turn the law and I showed that MANY others are suing too.

[Name removed]

128. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[BullDozer]

131. Then try comprehension it's fundamental

Without saying that I implied anything as you claim, if we go with your claim of implication, you have to agree that implying something is not saying that same something. Thus I never said that which you claim I said.

Just as you said keeping an enemies list was something "exactly something I expect that any advocacy group does".

No, I never said that an "enemies list" was kept by other advocacy groups. I did say that ".. organization keeps track of groups and person who actively work to oppose them. This is exactly something I expect that any advocacy group does and something that members of a group deserve to receive as a service."


There is the accurate quote -mr-I-can't-provide-an-accurate-quote-to-save-my-life.

I have in fact shown that other advocacy groups do produce similar lists.

Now go spin.

[MrBenchley]

134. And spin is fundamental to the RKBA crowd

Now go peddle your rubbish to someone dumb enough to believe it...

[Name removed]

91. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MrBenchley]

94. Gee....

I could ask you why you think the NRA has an "enemies list"...or why it contains just about every organization of decent people you can think of.

"I find it difficult to understand why you would be willing to hand over your freedom for some decreased sense of fear for the “RKBA crowd”? "
I find it funny as hell to hear that keeping lunatics and criminals from buying guns at gun shows without background checks, or keeping assault weapoins off the street, is handing over my freedom.

"I know our society is very violent and racist, but how is restricting gun ownership to a select few or types of weapons going to provide a decrease in crime or death?"
Gee, leaving aside that the gun rights crowd includes many of the most violent and racist in our society...it's ludicrous to pretend that there is no way to keep guns out of the hands of criminals...

[Name removed]

111. Deleted message

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[MrBenchley]

116. Ri-i-i-i-i-i-i-ight.

"I have not seen an enemy list from the NRA"
You mean, you didn't read the TITLE of this thread or ANY of the posts in it before leaped in and you started posting? Ho-kay.

[Name removed]

118. Deleted message

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[MrBenchley]

119. Nuff said....

"I have not seen or read anything within this topic or the NRA publications that can be considered an enemy list. "

By the way....

"I am not going to just fall in line with out proof that decent people have somehow had their reputation or integrity slandered by the NRA so called “enemy list”."
Hell, as far as I can see, being put on this list by the racist loonies of the NRA is a glowing testament to someone's reputation AND integrity.

[Name removed]

102. Deleted message

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[MrBenchley]

117. From MWO....

"Last week I received a call from the NRA. The woman on the phone breathlessly foretold of Hillary Clinton's impending takeover of the White House. Concerned, I asked if Hillary had gathered troops for an armed insurrection. She replied, no, she is planning on running for president. That's not quite the same as a takeover, I said. Becoming president requires convincing the majority of voters to select you intentionally. That's a bit different than a "takeover." That's a bit more like, say, the democratic process. I know they were promoting anti-Hillary hysteria for fund raising purposes. But I am sick of these people, and these tactics. And I worry about all those folks who reached for their guns and checkbooks when they received this same call.

On a positive side, I had the pleasure of introducing Paul Krugman to an enthusiastic audience of over 600 in Portland, OR last Saturday evening.

Keep up the good work."

http://www.mediawhoresonline.com/

[MrBenchley]

135. Jews appear on ‘blacklist,’ prepared by NRA

Another perspective....

"NEW YORK, Oct. 16 (JTA) — The list reads like a roster of “Who’s Who in America,” and it’s full of Jewish names.
In addition to Britney Spears, NBC News and the NAACP, Jews and Jewish organizations figure prominently on the list — from Jerry Seinfeld and Mandy Patinkin to the Anti-Defamation League and the Ronald S. Lauder Foundation.
The list is not easy to find on the NRA’s Web site. One has to click through layers of the site’s legislation and research sections to find those the group considers “pro-gun” and “anti-gun.”
The list is about as expansive as America. Among those named are the American Medical Association, Maya Angelou, Ed Koch, Julia Child, the St. Louis Cardinals, Spike Lee, Ben & Jerry’s, the United States Conference of Mayors, Hallmark Cards, the National Education Association and Moon Zappa.
Some said they considered their presence on the list a “badge of honor.” Others expressed slight concern at making the blacklist of a group whose members possess so much ordnance, but they still support gun control and downplayed the list’s importance.
Shelley Klein, director of advocacy for Hadassah, which is on the list, said that “to try to stigmatize organizations” and reduce multifaceted groups to a single issue is “really troubling.”
But Klein was largely dismissive of the list.
“Seeing the company we keep, we’re not concerned,” she said."

http://www.jta.org/page_view_story.asp?strwebhead=Jews+on+NRA%92s+%91blacklist%92&intcategoryid=5

[DoNotRefill]

137. from the article....

"Abraham Foxman, national director of the Anti-Defamation League, shrugged off the issue.

“There’s nothing wrong with it,” Foxman said.

Calling it a blacklist is “inappropriate,” he said, because the NRA does not petition members to take any action against those listed.

The ADL is “appropriately on there because we are an organization that has opposed” the NRA on gun legislation, Foxman said. The list only “adds credibility to them and to us.”"

The ADL doesn't have a problem with it....why do you?

When PETA or the Doris Day foundation puts out a list of companies that use animal testing, is that somehow a bad thing?

Do Americans no longer have a right to boycott people and companies that do things that irritate them? What about the Brady's high-profile boycott of H&R Block?

[MrBenchley]

140. Gee, refill, also from the article

"But Klein was largely dismissive of the list.

“Seeing the company we keep, we’re not concerned,” she said."

Really, all the list does is show what a bunch of far right wing nutcases the NRA is...and what sane person DIDN'T know that?

[MrBenchley]

142. "everyone disagrees with the NRA and supports some form of gun control"

"NEW YORK--(COLLEGIATE PRESSWIRE)--Oct 15, 2003--Britney Spears, Julia Roberts, Bruce Springsteen, Oprah, Jerry Seinfeld, Shania Twain, Uma Thurman, Sarah Jessica Parker, Michael Douglass & Catherine Zeta Jones, Drew Barrymore, New York Times, Levi Strauss Company, Hallmark Cards, American Jewish Congress, U.S. Catholic Conference, St. Louis Cardinals, etc.
An NRA blacklist targets a wide cross-section of America, a new Web site – nrablacklist.com – revealed today. The 19-page list, hidden in the belly of the NRA Web page, contains the names of major corporations, religious organizations, non-profits, writers, artists, journalists and even sports teams and police groups.
The list reads like a ``Who`s Who`` of contemporary America, reflecting different religions, ideologies, ethnicities, music styles, fashion sensibilities, and manufacturing bases. In fact, the list shows how out of step with America the NRA is – an organization that is so isolated that it keeps an enemies list with groups as diverse as the United States Catholic Conference and American Jewish Congress, the League of Women Voters and the National Urban League, the American Association of Retired Persons and the Children`s Defense Fund. In addition, the list includes major entertainers and celebrities, including those listed above, and corporations and sports teams.
The NRA claims that the individuals and organizations on the list have ``anti-gun`` views or have supported ``anti-gun`` causes. If that`s the case, the list proves that everyone disagrees with the NRA and supports some form of gun control."

http://www.cpwire.com/archive/2003/10/15/1414.asp

[MrBenchley]

143. "Scary sounding groups, right?"

Another perspective...

"The 14-page printout is pretty wide ranging. While my name wasn't on it (I opposed the Michigan concealed weapons law), plenty of others were, including some that might be surprising.
Like the National Association of Police Organizations, the AARP, American Federation of Teachers, General Federation of Women's Clubs, Grey Panthers, National Peace Foundation and YWCA of America.
Scary sounding groups, right?
I think it might have been easier for the NRA to set up a friends list. It probably would have been shorter and wouldn't have alienated everyone from millions of teachers and senior citizens to the major media outlets and the 300,000 cops who belong to the National Association of Police Organizations."

http://www.cheboygannews.com/articles/2003/10/17/news/opinion/opinion2.txt

[MrBenchley]

149. Rosemary Clooney is on the list, and she died last year

Even in death, the toothless inbred moron hordes of the NRA fear her....

"An enemies list can be used in many ways. For instance, proof that the NRA is out to get me is the fact that I'm not on the list.
An innocent omission? I don't think so. Not when you're talking about a person who has written in favor of licensing and registration. A person who's done articles about closing the gun-show loophole that allows buyers to bypass background checks. A person who began one column about the NRA:
"You're a decent, hard working guy, a longtime member of the National Rifle Association, now run by people who have more in common with Timothy McVeigh than with you."
And who ended a column about 23,000 NRA members jammed into a Phoenix convention center like this:
"Rather than selfishly looking forward to the departure of NRA members and their munitions suppliers, perhaps we should look beyond ourselves and consider a more important question, one that might actually assure the future good health and welfare of our nation. That is: How can we keep them here?"
If you're one of the big guns in the NRA and you want to discredit a punk like that, what's the best way to do it? Put him on the enemies list? No. That's exactly what he wants. He'd wear it like a badge of honor. If you want to undermine him, to ruin him, you leave him off the list, which makes him look like your friend. Your buddy. Your pal."

http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/local/articles/1019montini19.html

[MrBenchley]

150. The right to list enemies

"The NRA, by the way, says The Tempts earned their way onto its list by lending their name to an anti-gun newspaper ad in 1999.

Wow. The nerve.

Still, you'll forgive me if I don't run out to burn the rare, factory-sealed Temptations live album that cost me $60. And if I say that I see in this predilection for listing enemies a sweaty, shifty-eyed, hunker-in-the-bunker mentality that recalls Nixon at his worst.

In the face of such asininity, of paranoia beyond parody, I have just one thing to say to the NRA:

There are two "t's" in Pitts."


http://www.bayarea.com/mld/cctimes/news/opinion/7057648.htm

[demsrule4life]

151. Is the NRA "hate list"

any different then the daily DU hate list?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=105&topic_id=311286

[MrBenchley]

154. Gee, dems...

Amazing you'd hang around a site you find so repugnant...

Why don't you go on up there and tell them how awful that list is?

[demsrule4life]

155. That double standard thing sure is a bitch.

[MrBenchley]

156. "A vast cross-section of talented, thoughtful Americans"

"There are more enemies listed, many more. But you get the point. A vast cross-section of talented, thoughtful Americans, many beautiful people and just plain all-American companies and organizations are on the NRA bad list. They should be proud, because the NRA is about a lot more than making sure "law-abiding Americans" get to "keep and bear arms."
Actually, I'm not for gun control. I'm for gun elimination. Guns don't kill people, the NRA tells us, people kill people. Take away their guns and killing would be a lot harder. I'm for taking away guns from anyone who can't prove a real need. That's more radical than most gun control advocates seem willing to state. But while this country has dithered on the issue - unlike most other civilized places - and politicians have been intimidated by the NRA, tens of thousands of innocent people have been killed, and for what? For the sake of preserving "the right to bear arms"? That's not good enough. "

http://www.sunspot.net/news/opinion/perspective/bal-pe.column19oct19,0,4296961.story?coll=bal-perspective-headlines

[MrBenchley]

157. Mark Morford Weighs In

"And you might think, glancing down the list, that it's just comical and sad how the nation's most powerful and paranoid gun club sees no self-mockery in this, no hint that in creating such an impressive catalog of its "enemies" and revealing just how extensive is the list of intelligent and thoughtful and creative people and organizations who all find some sort of fault with its gun-fetishizin' agenda, they might just be revealing how pitiable and warped their cause actually is. You might think.
....
Maybe you are not on the NRA's list just yet. Maybe you want to join the blacklist and add your name to the thousands who look at the NRA and feel, well, not really anger, not liberal outrage, not even mistrust or disgust.
But more like this overwhelming sense of sadness, and embarrassment, and twisted empathy, this acidic knot in the gut at all the ignorance and misinfo the NRA seems to wallow in and engender in its members, what with the 32,000-plus gun-related deaths in America every year, even as the NRA actively works to reverse the assault-weapons ban in Congress and absolve gun makers and dealers from any liability and protect your right to buy the same high-powered Bushmaster rifle used by that murderous D.C. sniper.
Because remember, to extend the NRA's favorite saying, guns don't kill people, gun-happy sociopaths weaned on ultraviolent media coupled with the NRA's very brand of fearmongering and paranoia and intolerance and anticultural loathing kill people.
Make a note of how in one recent year, guns murdered four people in New Zealand, 19 in Japan, 54 in England, 57 in Australia, 66 in Switzerland, 151 in Canada, 373 in Germany, and 11,798 in the U.S. Note how the NRA hates stats like this. Send this note to all your friends, using the subject line: "Fun data to toss around at a GOP party or when scoring Vicodin for Rush Limbaugh." "

http://www.sfgate.com/columnists/morford/

[MrBenchley]

158. Even Faux Nutcase Noise can't spin it

into anything but craziness....

"MIKE MEYERS, ACTOR: That's just groovy, baby. They're going to love me, I know it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN GIBSON, HOST: Shameless attempt to get Austin Powers into the show. Actor Mike Meyers, along with hundreds of celebrities and organizations are finding out that he and they are not loved by the NRA.
The National Rifle Association (search) is putting together a lengthy list of enemies to the Second Amendment.
Wayne Lapierre (search) is executive vice president and CEO of the NRA. The big question at this hour, Wayne: are you shooting yourself in the foot with an enemy's list? Even Nixon figured out that's a bad idea.
...

GIBSON: It goes beyond the celebrities. On your list here, I am reading of the list again, the AFL-CIO, the American Academy of Pediatrics, the Children's Defense Fund… the United States Catholic Conference, the U.S. Conference of Mayors, the YWCA.

Once again, it seems like you have put out such an extensive list that there's something there for everybody to say, "Well, maybe I don't agree with the AFL-CIO, but maybe I do agree with the United States Catholic Conference." "

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,100763,00.html

[FlashHarry]

159. Locking

This one's getting long and nasty (no puns, please).
Feel free to start a new thread on the subject.

FlashHarry
DU Moderator