Gen. Discussion: "Obama mentions God and guns in Idaho"

[SteveM]

The post also mentions that Obama did not speak of his record on gun-control and outright bans; specifically, his favoring the sell and possession of ALL semi-automatic guns. If this prohibition were enacted it would criminalize tens of millions of Americans with one signature. Obama inoculated himself by being pro-hunter (I don't think he is one), but did not mention 80% of gun owners do not hunt. Interesting that he should broach the subject when so many (here and in the Beltway) seem to think that 2A rights are "not an issue" this year.

Barrack needs to get to the range and educate himself. Fast.

[jody]

1. Obama wants to portray himself as friend of D.C.'s ban guns group and loyal NRA supporter at the

same time. He's a chameleon on divisive political issues.

Can he fool a majority of the voters, all the time?

[SteveM]

2. Very much a case of Who's afraid of Virginia Wolf...

Gun prohibition sentiment is at its most powerful within the Beltway and in high-crime urban areas where Democrats are addicted to policies of cheap, feel-good fixes. These shot-out interest groups can, for some reason, still convince Dems that it is in their cultural and moral interests to agree with their stance. (I certainly can't see any realpolitik interests.) When will they learn that there is no one behind the curtain?

[virginia mountainman]

3. His Position on banning ALL Semi Autos...

Is beyond radioactive in most the nation...

Even the most "traditional hunters" would cringe at that sort of legislation.

[Major Hogwash]

4. You guys are wasting your time complaining about Obama.

McCain has a worse record concerning guns. His record is longer than your arm and extends back 20 years.

[SteveM]

5. Actually, if Obama heard our complaints and did something about them,

it wouldn't be "a waste of time." I agree that McCain's record isn't stellar either. BTW, do you have some cites on McCain -- never to early to plan a campaign counter offensive on 2A!

[dairydog91]

6. What are you basing this on?

Here's what I've got for McCain's record on guns...

Voted YES on banning lawsuits against gun manufacturers for gun violence.
Vote to pass a bill that would block certain civil lawsuits against manufacturers, distributors, dealers and importers of firearms and ammunition, mainly those lawsuits aimed at making them liable for gun violence. In this bill, trade groups would also be protected The bill would call for the dismissal of pending lawsuits against the gun industry. The exception would be lawsuits regarding a defect in a weapon or ammunition. It also would provide a 10-year reauthorization of the assault weapons ban which is set to expire in September 2004. The bill would increase the penalties for gun-related violent or drug trafficking crimes which have not resulted in death, to a minimum of 15 years imprisonment. The bill calls for criminal background checks on all firearm transactions at gun shows where at least 75 guns are sold. Exemptions would be made available for dealers selling guns from their homes as well as members-only gun swaps and meets carried out by nonprofit hunting clubs.
Reference: Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act; Bill S.1805/H.R.1036 ; vote number 2004-30 on Mar 2, 2004

Voted NO on background checks at gun shows.
Require background checks on all firearm sales at gun shows.
Status: Amdt Agreed to Y)50; N)50; VP decided YES
Reference: Lautenberg Amdt #362; Bill S. 254 ; vote number 1999-134 on May 20, 1999

Voted YES on more penalties for gun & drug violations.
The Hatch amdt would increase mandatory penalties for the illegal transfer or use of firearms, fund additional drug case prosecutors, and require background check on purchasers at gun shows.
Status: Amdt Agreed to Y)48; N)47; NV)5
Reference: Hatch Amendment #344; Bill S. 254 ; vote number 1999-118 on May 14, 1999

Voted YES on loosening license & background checks at gun shows.
Vote to table or kill a motion to require that all gun sales at gun shows be completed by federally licensed gun dealers. Also requires background checks to be completed on buyers and requires gun show promoters to register with the Treasury.
Reference: Bill S.254 ; vote number 1999-111 on May 11, 1999

Voted YES on maintaining current law: guns sold without trigger locks.
Vote to table an amendment to make it unlawful for gun dealers to sell handguns without providing trigger locks. Violation of the law would result in civil penalties, such as suspension or revocation of the dealer's license, or a fine.
Reference: Bill S 2260 ; vote number 1998-216 on Jul 21, 1998

Voted YES on prohibiting lawsuits against gun manufacturers.
A bill to prohibit civil liability actions from being brought or continued against manufacturers, distributors, dealers, or importers of firearms or ammunition for damages, injunctive or other relief resulting from the misuse of their products by others. Voting YES would:

* Exempt lawsuits brought against individuals who knowingly transfer a firearm that will be used to commit a violent or drug-trafficking crime
* Exempt lawsuits against actions that result in death, physical injury or property damage due solely to a product defect
* Call for the dismissal of all qualified civil liability actions pending on the date of enactment by the court in which the action was brought
* Prohibit the manufacture, import, sale or delivery of armor piercing ammunition, and sets a minimum prison term of 15 years for violations
* Require all licensed importers, manufacturers and dealers who engage in the transfer of handguns to provide secure gun storage or safety devices
Reference: Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act; Bill S 397 ; vote number 2005-219 on Jul 29, 2005

Voted NO on Brady Bill & assault weapon ban
McCain spoke generally of the need for some tighter gun controls on hardened criminals and children. In Congress, he pressured his colleagues to require background checks for buyers at guns shows, and he supported a requirement that trigger locks be sold with handguns. But the Senator opposed the two major gun-control measures of recent years, the 1994 ban on several types of assault weapons and the Brady Bill, which required a 5-day waiting period for handgun purchases.


Obama's record is less defined, but what he has for a record indicates a more anti-gun position...

Ban semi-automatics, and more possession restrictions

* Principles that Obama supports on gun issues:Ban the sale or transfer of all forms of semi-automatic weapons.
* Increase state restrictions on the purchase and possession of firearms.
* Require manufacturers to provide child-safety locks with firearms.
Source: 1998 IL State Legislative National Political Awareness Test Jul 2, 1998

Voted NO on prohibiting lawsuits against gun manufacturers.
A bill to prohibit civil liability actions from being brought or continued against manufacturers, distributors, dealers, or importers of firearms or ammunition for damages, injunctive or other relief resulting from the misuse of their products by others. Voting YES would:

* Exempt lawsuits brought against individuals who knowingly transfer a firearm that will be used to commit a violent or drug-trafficking crime
* Exempt lawsuits against actions that result in death, physical injury or property damage due solely to a product defect
* Call for the dismissal of all qualified civil liability actions pending on the date of enactment by the court in which the action was brought
* Prohibit the manufacture, import, sale or delivery of armor piercing ammunition, and sets a minimum prison term of 15 years for violations
* Require all licensed importers, manufacturers and dealers who engage in the transfer of handguns to provide secure gun storage or safety devices
Reference: Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act; Bill S 397 ; vote number 2005-219 on Jul 29, 2005

2000: cosponsored bill to limit purchases to 1 gun per month
Obama sought moderate gun control measures, such as a 2000 bill he cosponsored to limit handgun purchases to one per month (it did not pass). He voted against letting people violate local weapons bans in cases of self-defense, but also voted in2004 to let retired police officers carry concealed handguns.
Source: The Improbable Quest, by John K. Wilson, p.148 Oct 30, 2007

This is all from www.ontheissues.org

[Major Hogwash]

9. The NRA gives McCain a grade of "F".

That's what I base it on.

I don't bash Democrats as a hobby or as a game.
I'm a gunowner from Idaho.
I hunt and I fish quite a bit.
Since I went and heard this speech by Obama, I can tell you first hand that there was more to his speech than just this comment about guns.
I was inspired more by what Obama said that day than anything I have heard coming from any other politician in at least 25 years.
If you get the chance to hear him speak, you should go and listen to what he has to say.

I'm not worried about Obama's position on guns at all.

McCain thinks that we should stay in Iraq, even if it means we are there for 100 years.
As far as I'm concerned, McCain is insane.
Or at the very least, senile.

[Jack_DeLeon]

13. I worry about charismatic leaders...

who would want to take away my rights regardless of whatever else he is promising, no matter how compelling.

When a politican says he is going to take something away, no matter how they try to obfuscate it, I'll tend to believe it. When they promise to give you something, I tend to think that is less likely for whatever reason.

No matter what Obama promises I dont want to give up my rights.

What makes it worse I think is how charismatic he is, that makes me worry that it would be easier for him to sway people to follow him. I dont think a cult of personality is a good thing for our politicans to have.

I think I'll vote for Hillary, her gun control positions are less extreme than Obama, and she isnt as charasmatic as he is, people will actually question what it is she is proposing, where as they might be more inclined to rubber stamp what Obama is offering.

[Jack_DeLeon]

12. McCain is far ahead of both Obama and Clinton on the gun rights issue...

McCain voted against the assault weapon ban.

The only thing I think that some people have issues with is that he wants there to be NICS checks on all gun sales. Which I would have no problem with if it were open to the public for free and made simple. I would have issues with it being mandatory if there were large fees or lots of hoops to jump through to get the checks done.

The rest of his politics, well...

[gorfle]

7. Please correct grammar/punctuation for clarity...

You said:

specifically, his favoring the sell and possession of ALL semi-automatic guns.

What does it mean to favor the "sell and possession" of ALL semi-automatic guns?

[SteveM]

8. Oops! He favors BANNING the sell and possession of ALL semi-autos.

[Major Hogwash]

10. They just mentioned Obama coming to Idaho on tv! I love it! Obama will kick serious ass this fall!

They just can't help themselves. They have to lie about us here in Idaho.
This is great for the Democrats - McCain is hated out here in this state!

You watch, it will be the lowest GOP turnout in decades this fall if he is their nominee.

[Jack_DeLeon]

11. Its pretty fucking sad, Obama is worse on the gun Issue than Hillary is...

Hillary supports an assault weapon ban, which I oppose, yet she hasnt gone so far to say all semi-auto firearms should be banned.

I've also read that Obama is against concealed carry and would favor it being made illegal, like in his home state. Hillary has stated any opinion on concealed carry.