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dArKeR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-06-05 11:07 PM
Original message
Taiwan belongs to the Taiwanese
Taiwan does belong to Taiwanese in spite of China's repeated claim. One of the most frequently heard Chinese arguments is that "Taiwan has belonged to China since antiquity." Such and such a territory has always belonged to China is probably the most commonly used rationale for the Chinese territorial claim. The Chinese are plainly deceiving themselves whenever they make such a ridiculous claim.

A decade ago, a retired colleague of mine served as a visiting professor at a university in Manchuria. The American professor and his wife enjoyed entertaining his graduate students at their apartment. One night, the professor led a discussion centering on Manchurian history and culture. One of the students asserted that "The northeast has belonged to China since ancient times," and his collegues enthusiastically supported the argument.

Having strived to teach his Chinese students how to think rather than what to think, the professor, who was also well read in Chinese history, asked them to explain why Manchuria lies outside of the famed Great Wall that was constructed and reconstructed since the third century to defend China from the nomadic "barbarians." All the Chinese at the party were speechless.
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Oversea Visitor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-06-05 11:31 PM
Response to Original message
1. Aaaah
Have you hear of Manchurian Emperor of China?
Oh well Taiwan is part of China that is recorded history.
China position is using diplomacy. Look at Macau, Hong Kong.
Taiwan can do what they want. Only thing they cannot declare that they are not part of China.
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Chan790 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-06-05 11:39 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Please tell me this is sarcasm n/m
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Oversea Visitor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 02:55 AM
Response to Reply #2
8. Facts and reality
Take in anyway you want.
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dArKeR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 09:29 AM
Response to Reply #8
10. Read this and then report back!
The Robert F. Kennedy of Asia, President Chen Shui Bian (Abian) (Taiwanese) (English)

General History, Present and Future of Taiwan

Generalissimo to be buried in Taiwan
LEGACY: The man who led the shattered remnants of the Chinese Nationalist Party's forces to Taiwan after their defeat by the Communists will be buried here after all
By Chang Yun-ping and Jimmy Chuang
Friday, Jul 09, 2004,Page 1

The bodies of Chinese Nationalist Party (KMT) Generalissimo Chiang Kai-shek (???) and his son and successor, former president Chiang Ching-kuo (???), which lie embalmed in temporary mausoleums in Taoyuan County, will finally be buried after Chiang's descendants asked the government to bury the bodies of the two presidents in a military cemetery in northern Taiwan.

Generalissimo Chiang fled to Taiwan in 1949 after losing the Civil War against the Chinese Community Party. Chiang died in 1975. The burial of Chiang and his son in Taiwan mark the Chiang family's recognition that the "Republic of China" military could never retake China.

The New Taiwan Person
Centuries ago, the island had an aboriginal culture of Malay and Polynesian descent. In the 17th century, the Dutch and Portuguese had colonies here, and the imported Chinese laborers all men intermarried with locals, forming the basis of the majority of todays population. According this version of history, it was only in 1887 that China declared Taiwan a part of its territory in an effort to stem Japanese expansionism, say independence activists. But when that failed, China ceded Taiwan to Japan in perpetuity.
The Japanese held Taiwan for 50 years, until their defeat in World War II. In the years immediately after, Allied Forces backed Chiang Kai-sheks temporary occupation of Taiwan. But according to pro-independence legal experts, the Nationalists never had a legal basis to stay.
In 1949, Taiwan did not split off from China, but was occupied by the losing side in the Chinese Civil War, according to a 1999 white paper endorsed by 18 overseas Taiwanese associations.

Lee said that the people of Taiwan need to shrug off the mentality of being a "long-term laborer" after being ruled by the Chinese Nationalist Party (KMT) for half a century, and take up the responsibility of being the master of their own country.

Liu Yan Chun grew up in Taiwan firmly believing that her family would someday go back to mainland China. It took most of her life to realize that there would be no triumphant return, as envisioned by the Nationalists when they retreated (Edit: this word should be INVADED Formosa which they renamed to Taiwan.) to Taiwan after defeat by the Chinese Communists in 1949. It took her longer still to realize that she had no desire to return.

`One China' review under way
RE-EXAMINATION: An academic at the Heritage Foundation says the US is studying the longstanding policy with an eye to debunking the myth that Taiwan is part of China
By Charles Snyder
Thursday, Jun 17, 2004,Page 1

The Bush administration is already conducting a secret review of its "one China" policy, although the review is fairly narrow and technical and will not necessarily result in a decision to support Taiwan's independence, a leading Washington Taiwan specialist says.

John Tkacik, an academic at the Heritage Foundation, told the Taipei Times that the review aims to debunk the myth that Taiwan is part of China and to clarify just what a "one China" policy means.

He was commenting on a report issued in Washington on Tuesday by the US-China Economic and Security Review Commission, which recommended that the Bush administration and Congress "conduct a fresh assessment of the `one China' policy, given the changing realities in China and Taiwan."

"I think the State Department is already reviewing the `one China' policy," Tkacik said.

KMT can go back to China

History is coming full circle ("KMT delegation travels to China for historic visit," March 28, page 2). The Chinese Nationalist Party (KMT) can go home now. As far as the Taiwanese are concerned, China is the KMT's home, not Taiwan.

Some Taiwanese did favor going back to the "motherland" after World War II. However, they did not expect the murdering, corrupt, thieving, arrogant, self-appointed government that was the KMT regime. "The KMT does not support Taiwan independence" is a statement that masks the fact that the KMT does not support democracy. In fact, it does not support Taiwan.

Are KMT Chairman Lien Chan (??) and his KMT cronies so naive as to think they can talk the Chinese Communist Party (CCP) out of "non-peaceful means" to resolve the Taiwan issue? If that's the case, more power to them. More likely, they would rather disarm Taiwan to make it more convenient for the CCP to annex Taiwan by "non-peaceful means."

Beijing's claims tied to war myth
Despite the opposition of Taiwan and the international community, China passed an "Anti-Secession" Law, attempting to realize its ambition to invade Taiwan through legal means. The purpose of the legislation is to continue the Chinese civil war and provide a legislative endorsement for a war launched by the executive.

China has no documentary evidence to prove its sovereignty over Taiwan. Its claim is based on its Constitution or the Anti-Secession Law -- which states in Article 2 that, "There is only one China in the world. Both the mainland and Taiwan belong to one China." Such a unilateral claim does not make Taiwan part of its territory. This is just like Beijing's demand for its allies to acknowledge that Taiwan is part of China when they establish diplomatic ties. It is not legally binding and is merely an exchange of political opinions.

Jackie 'Whore' Chan is a Communist Puppet!
Senior DPP figure gets in a tangle over Jackie Chan

Jackie Chan Rips Taiwan's Election

TAIPEI, Taiwan - Hong Kong film star Jackie Chan (news) said Sunday that Taiwan's recent presidential election was "the biggest joke in the world." ...

I'm putting the WORLD on notice. This is how Fascism, Communism, Brutal Regimes, Nazis, Hitlers rise. The use of immoral instruments masquerading as moral/just people. Chan, speaking from Communist China and bashing Democracy! This is as laughable as Trent Lott saying aWol got more votes. Jackie 'Whore' didn't mention that there are no elections in China but its obviously the most corrupt and murderous regime on the planet. Where government officials falsely convict citizens, execute them and sell their body parts for cash.

Honk Kong has no ability to vote for its leader either. And the Communists are trying daily to take away ALL rights of Hong Kong citizens.

I was in Hong Kong when the first Chinese astronaut went on tour in Hong Kong. Who was there as the Communist mouth piece? Jackie 'Whore'. Not only did I read in the Hong Kong newspapers, I spoke to many Hong Kong citizens questioning why Jackie 'Whore' was playing the puppet for the Communists. So many people felt this way, Jackie 'Whore' went on a TV 'attack dog tour' (like Condi Lice is doing now), to try to salvage his reputation. He just kept saying, 'We are all Chinese that's why I do it.'

Everyone I spoke to, and also saw personally on HK TV interviews of people standing in line, (The space capsule was put on display at the Space Center next to Kowloon Star Ferry), the Hong Kong people said, 'I don't care about seeing Yang Liwei, astronaunt, I only want to see the space capsule.'

Most all HK people were really pissed at Jackie 'Whore' for his actions. Many said he's a traitor.


You've got to look at this honestly people! Everyone stop and look what's go-in down! There isn't an official/knowledgable person in the world who'd say Taiwan's election procedures aren't the fairest in the world.

The people protesting, in Taiwan, are all the Fascists Mainland Chinese who invaded Taiwan in 1949. They are about the most corrupt group on Earth, have been stealing money from Taiwan since 1949 but now no longer have an easy method to steal.

The KMT Party is the richest political party in the world. How did they get this money?

Assassination attempt. Is Jackie 'Whore' willing to take a bullet in the stomach while riding in a Jeep? The investigation is on going but Jackie 'Whore' knows what happened?

You can read just about anywhere the near certainty of ALL Hong Kong media stars being part of the Hong Kong Mafia. Which I would assume has now been taken over by the Communist Chinese Government.


ps. I'll never watch a Jackie 'Whore' movie again!

The book that built the Lien family.
Just when the family assets of Lien Chen-tung and his son Lien Chan became a hot election campaign issue, a dissertation written by academic Lin Yuan-huei.

The 30,000-character paper tells the reader that, during the era of Japanese occupation, both Lien Heng and Lien Chen-tung worked for a pro-Japanese newspaper. It also tells how Lien Heng eulogized the colonizers in poems.

"Since last year, the pan-blue camp has carried out numerous campaign activities in China, all in violation of Chinese law. However, not only did the Chinese government fail to put a stop to these activities, instead it allowed and even supported their activities," said DPP campaign headquarters spokesman Wu Nai-jen (???).

More than 60 percent of Taiwan's people believe China's authorities are hostile to the country's government while over 40 percent consider the hostility targeted at Taiwan's population, the Mainland Affairs Council said yesterday after reviewing 80 polls conducted on cross-strait relations last year.

"It is an embezzlement case with top KMT officials involved. Whoever can control the project has to be someone with a minister status or higher. We should find out who made the decisions back then," Chang said.

Taiwan's Chen Defends Move on Referendum
(Los Angeles Times - free register)

007 James Bond - Sean Connery says President Chen is his hero!

First lady's European tour seen as diplomatic success

Assassination Attempt
Chen's wife, you know, was at a time an even more strident crusader than he was for the rights of the Taiwanese and the DPP. In 1985 she was rammed over three times by a truck and was crippled, and the driver was never found despite the fact that there were witnesses. Most Taiwanese believe _ that it was a botched KMT assassination attempt. And Chen has to go home every night and see her sitting in a wheelchair because of it. It's not an easy thing to shake. /

Accident or assassination attempt?

One account claims the driver, described in press reports at the time as a "simple peasant with a steady job and a fixed residence, Chang Jung-tsai" was driving an "illegally assembled truck" down the narrow street where Mrs. Chen was standing.

Witnesses said Chang purposefully hit Mrs. Chen. They insisted that the driver reportedly exclaimed "Oh, she's not dead yet" before backing up and running over her again to ensure maximum injury if not death.

From poverty to power: Chen Shui-bian's rise to the presidency

(Ex President) Lee says pro-unification forces to blame for SARS outbreak

Ex-KMT mayor gets 7-year sentence
(He should be forced to pay back the money he stole OR buy every person in Taiwan a kayak!)

Young voters supportive of Chen, poll says

Chen gains 55% approval rating, survey shows
(The come back kid!)
(Someone send me an Abian doll!)

Taiwan's Chen Defends Move on Referendum
Calling Taiwan a free and sovereign country, President Chen Shui-bian defended his decision to call a referendum on relations with mainland China and rejected international concerns that the move was a provocation that endangered the uneasy peace in the Taiwan Strait.

DPP decries Soong's proposal
(Soong and Lien are mainland pigs.)

The TSU regards Chinese Nationalist Party (KMT) Chairman Lien Chan (??) and People First Party Chairman James Soong (???), both born in China, as "aliens."

(Wow, I didn't know they were born in China. This brings up very very very serious legal issues! Lien and Soong should NOT be issued Taiwan Passports because they were born in China. They should be issued Communist China Passports! If they are not eligible for Taiwan Passports then they are NOT Taiwan Citizens. If they are NOT Taiwan Citizens how can they hold political office in Taiwan? How, who issued them Taiwan passports and Taiwan IDs? I read many stories were a foreigner has a baby in Taiwan but the previous Gou Ming Dong government kicked them out of Taiwan. Even Taiwanese who married a foreigner, the foreigner could NOT stay in Taiwan as a citizen. So how can the Taiwan law be so strict on citizenship but allow Lien and Soong to maintain Taiwan Citizenship?)

Ma's democratic credentials queried.
Ma, Guo Ming Dong's (KMT) Pig Puppet Mayor

DPP says KMT should apologize for buying votes
(Apologize? Put the scum in jail!)

KMT (Pig) rebel blasts party's voting order

Recent poll shows satisfication with government, Chen

Former hospital chief under fire (SARS spreader)
Wu was the superintendent of Taipei Municipal Jen Ai when President Chen Shui-bian was Taipei mayor, but he was fired over allegations of corruption in an equipment purchase scandal.

When Ma Ying-jeou (KMT Pig) was elected mayor, he invited Wu back and made him the superintendent of Hoping.

Premier's performance satisfies public, poll says

Chirac sold out to PRC for commerce, says Lu Taiwan VP
Vice President Annette Lu (???) declared that French President Jacques Chirac had "sold out the national character and spirit of France" by opposing Taiwan's planned peace referendum Monday during a visit to Paris by People's Republic of China State Chairman Hu Jintao (???).

Billions Embezzled In China (Like Communist Chinese like KMT. Whats the difference between a Communist Chinese and a Guo Ming Dong Chinese? Answer:Nothing)
Audits aimed at ferreting out corruption in China uncovered $8 billion in misused or embezzled funds and widespread irregularities that produced "serious losses" of state assets, the government said Friday.

Auditors investigated 130,000 state businesses and offices last year as part of the communist leadership's campaign against the pervasive graft that has soured public faith in the government.

Protest staged over KMT assets
Forging ahead with a campaign to exert pressure on the Kuomintang to return swathes of its financial and property holdings to the state, local activists yesterday staged a protest in front of the former ruling party's headquarters demanding it hand over allegedly 'ill-gotten' assets.

Members of the Alliance to Campaign for Rectifying the Name of Taiwan brandishing leaflets entitled 'Returning KMT Party Assets' yesterday morning converged on the Chinese Nationalist Party headquarters, downtown Taipei and called on KMT Chairman Lien Chan (??) along with other party staff to vacate the building.

Taiwan's democracy has need of America
Chinese army preparing large-scale military exercises aimed at Taiwan
BEIJING, (AFP) - China is gearing-up for large-scale military wargames aimed at "taking control of the Taiwan Strait", with 18,000 troops and the amphibious landing of a tank brigade.
AFP/File Photo

The exercises were to take place in June and July on Dongshan Island in southeastern Fujian province just 150 nautical miles west of Taiwan's Penghu Island, the New Express Daily said, citing a pro-Beijing Hong Kong newspaper.

China has become increasingly agitated with independence-leaning Taiwanese President Chen Shui-bian, and the report referred to the exercises as the first-ever aimed at "striving to control the Taiwan Strait."

The 18,000 soldiers will be deployed from the land, navy and air force of the Nanjing Military Region, where some 500 short-range ballistic missiles are pointed at Taiwan.

"Sukoi Su-27 fighter jets will be outfitted with KN59M guided air-to-surface missiles in an effort to maintain control over the Taiwan Strait and ensure that tank brigades can make a landing and engage in warfare," the report said.

KMT youth urge Lien to spare them any favors

By Huang Tai-lin
Wednesday, Jun 02, 2004,Page 1

Chinese Nationalist Party (KMT) Chairman Lien Chan (??) is too much of an embarrassment for many younger members of his party, who say they would rather not be associated with the three-time election loser.

"How can you embark on a `thanksgiving and unity tour' when you don't work to unite party headquarters first?" said Chiu Teh-hung (???), organizer of a group of young party members calling itself the "Blue Eagle Warriors" (????).

KMT spokesman Alex Tsai (???) announced on Monday that Lien, 68, was planning a tour of central and southern Taiwan this month to thank supporters and drum up support for KMT candidates in the year-end legislative elections.

Taiwanese VP asks world support against possible attack by China

SAN JOSE (AFP) - Taiwanese Vice President Lu Hsiu-lien asked for international support for her island against a possible attack from mainland China, saying Beijing posed an "imminent danger" to Taiwan.

"Taiwan has been fighting alone for 50 years to protect itself against this possible invasion," she told a press conference on the second day of an official visit to Costa Rica, part of a three-country Central American tour.

"Today," she said, "we need the world to give us a hand so that this threat does not become reality."

Lu Hsiu-lien said China has been expanding its military power and at the moment it has along its eastern coast "more than 600 missiles aimed at Taiwan," a number she said could be increased to 800 to 1,000 next year.

The missiles, she said, pose an "imminent danger," not only to Taiwan, but to "the entire Asia-Pacific region."

China "puts on an outwardly peaceful mask" but in reality "is developing massive power in many areas," said the Taiwanese vice president. /...

KMT must return its media to the public
The Campaign for Media Reform is a local media monitoring group

Monday, Jun 07, 2004,Page 8

The media have reported that the Chinese Nationalist Party (KMT) intends to sell all its media businesses as a single package for about NT$8 billion.

These media businesses include Chinese Television Company, Ltd (CTV), Broadcasting Corporation of China, the Central Daily News and the Central Motion Pictures Corporation.

Private enterprises such as Eastern Multimedia Corp and Chinatrust Group have shown their interest in the deal.

As a media reform group, Campaign for Media Reform is strongly disappointed with the KMT's handling of its party-run media businesses.

What is China's beef with Chen?
By Sushil Seth

Thursday, Jun 10, 2004,Page 8
Why is China so angry with President Chen Shui-bian (???)? Because he is not delivering Taiwan on a platter. Otherwise he appears quite reasonable, even from a Chinese viewpoint. For instance, in his recent inauguration address he scrupulously avoided the question of independence for Taiwan. He simply sought Beijing's cooperation "to guarantee there will be no unilateral change to the status quo in the Taiwan Strait." Indeed, he hasn't ruled out "any possibility, so long as there is the consent of the 23 million people of Taiwan."

For all his efforts at moderation, Beijing has branded his "provocative pro-independence activities the biggest threat to peace and stability in the Taiwan Strait." It has declared that "we will absolutely not tolerate Taiwan's independence" and would crush it "at any cost."

The sub-text of this harsh message is that Beijing doesn't trust Chen, no matter what he says. They also feel frustrated at the lack of credible political alternatives in Taiwan to advance China's unification goal. Indeed, Chen has consolidated his position by polling about 11 percent more votes than in 2000.

Pan-blues losing support, poll says
CHANGING ATTITUDES: The post-election antics of the opposition parties have cost them dearly, according to a poll conducted by the think tank Taiwan Advocates
By Chang Yun-ping
Friday, Jun 11, 2004,Page 1

The two-month-long protest and resistance against the legitimacy of President Chen Shui-bian's (???) re-election by the pan-blue alliance has resulted in the loss of public support, which would lead to a marked defeat of Chinese Nationalist Party (KMT) Chairman Lien Chan (??) by Chen should the presidential election be held now, a public opinion survey released by Taiwan Advocates (???) said yesterday.

The think tank yesterday held a press conference to release the results of a public opinion poll investigating the public's attitudes toward the two-month long protest by the KMT and People First Party (PFP).

Its findings showed that the disapproval rate of the pan-blues' protests has increased to 67.8 percent from 53 percent.

The poll also found that if the election were held today, 60 percent of the public would vote for the Democratic Progressive Party-backed presidential ticket of Chen and Vice President Annette Lu (???), while 40 percent of the voters would support the KMT-PFP alliance's Lien-James Soong (???) ticket.

China's a dying tiger, to be feared in decline
Jin Zhong??

Sunday, Jun 13, 2004,Page 8

When Hong Kong residents rallied to commemorate the fifteenth anniversary of the bloody Tiananmen Square crackdown, they mourned with a question in mind: Why did 1989's wave of democratization help end communist rule in Russia and across Eastern Europe, when at Tiananmen it heralded a rollback of people's rights that has lasted 15 years since then?

Princeton University professor Yu Ying-shih (???) once remarked on China's future with the saying "a dying tiger is the most ferocious." The 3,000-year-old tiger of China's feudalism devoured many, but the tiger of China's communist tyranny is even more bloodthirsty, preying on tens of millions. But the 1989 democracy movement sounded the communist tiger's death knell. Ever since the Tiananmen massacre, a sense of crisis has weighed heavily on China's government.

Earlier this year, some Beijing scholars described China's policy framework as "market economy, elite alliance, authoritarian politics," claiming that this framework will remain unchanged for the next 10 years. Such is the autocracy that has emerged in China since 1989. After a visit to southern China, the late Chinese leader Deng Xiaoping (???) gave the green light to a free-market economy, linking China's bureaucracy to international capital to strengthen the dictatorship's effectiveness.

US fires back at China over Taiwan
`STATUS QUO': The US Department of State's spokesman said yesterday that there had been no recent changes in Washington's policies or commitments to Taiwan
By Charles Snyder
Friday, Jul 16, 2004,Page 1

The US on Wednesday rejected Chinese demands that Washington cut back on weapons sales and other cooperation with Taiwan, insisting that US policy had not changed in recent months.

State Department spokesman Richard Boucher made the comments in response to statements Tuesday by Chinese Embassy spokesman Sun Weide (???), who said that Beijing was "gravely concerned over the recent US moves on the Taiwan question."

"I don't know why one needs to talk about `recent US moves,'" Boucher said at his regular daily press briefing. "There's been no change in US policy regarding China and Taiwan."

US officials have repeatedly communicated the US' continuing Taiwan policy to China, Boucher said. National Security Advisor Condoleezza Rice reiterated the policy during her meetings in Beijing last week with the top Chinese leadership, as did Secretary of State Colin Powell in a recent meeting in Indonesia with Chinese Foreign Minister Li Zhao-xing (???), Boucher said.

China's purged Communist Party chief Zhao Ziyang poses for a photo at home in Beijing in Autumn of 2002. Zhao is 84, with silver hair and in declining health, but still lives under house arrest 15 years after he was toppled for opposing the army crackdown on student-led pro-democracy protests. Picture taken in Autumn 2002. REUTERS/Stringer/FEATURE/CHINA-TIANANMEN-ZHAO




Local residents load wounded people on a rickshaw flatbed shortly after PLA soldiers opened fire on a crowd in Beijing in this June 4, 1989 file photo. Friday, June 4, 2004 marks the 15th anniversary of the military assault that killed hundreds, possibly thousands, and ended seven weeks of protests centered on Tiananmen Square. (AP Photo/Liu Heung Shing)

The bodies of dead civilians lie among mangled bicycles near Beijing's Tiananmen Square in this early June 4, 1989 file photo. Friday, June 4, 2004 marks the 15th anniversary of the military assault on pro-democracy protesters who had occupied the square for seven weeks. Hundreds, possibly thousands, died in the early hours of June 4, 1989 when troops shot their way through Beijing's streets to retake the square. (AP Photo)

This is a May 27, 1989 file photo of student leader Wang Dan in Tiananmen Square Beijing calling for a city wide march. Friday, June 4, 2004 marks the 15th anniversary of the military assault on pro-democracy protesters who had occupied the square for seven weeks. Hundreds died in the early hours of June 4, 1989 when troops shot their way through Beijing's streets to retake the square. (AP Photo/Mark Avery, File)

A Chinese man stands alone to block a line of tanks heading east on Beijing's Changan Blvd. near Tiananmen Square in this June 5, 1989 file photo. Friday June 4, 2004 marks the 15th anniversary of the military crackdown on a student-led demonstration for democratic reform and against government corruption, which left hundreds, possibly thousands dead. (AP Photo/Jeff Wide ner, File)

Chinese tanks guard a major approach to Tiananmen Square two days after the June 4, 1989 crackdown on democracy protests. A resolution was introduced in the US Congress condemning China for the brutal crackdown 15 years ago and offering hope to Chinese citizens that democracy will ultimately triumph in the communist-ruled nation(AFP/File/Manuel Ceneta)

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Igel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-06-05 11:45 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Many things are part of recorded history.
Penang belonged to Britain for a while.

The Dutch controlled large portions of Malaysia.

That you cite the Manchurian Emperor apparently as evidence of the ancientness of the Chinese claim to Manchuria (which is all that the article seeks to disprove by raising the point), would imply you would believe the Dutch claim to Malaysia is even of greater antiquity. Surely this isn't something you wish for us to infer.

People are either for or against colonialism for strange reasons on this board.
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Oversea Visitor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 02:43 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. US
belong s to the RED INDIANS
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 11:28 AM
Response to Reply #5
12. And Tibet belongs to tibetans too.
And Formosa to Formosans.
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Oversea Visitor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 02:54 AM
Response to Reply #3
7. Damn it
Go studey your history on the Nationalist Party and the Communist Party War.
Does not means that the Nationalist Party retreating to Taiwan and the fact that the Communist Party wants to end the fighting by not attacking the Nationalist Party in Taiwan mean that they do not consider that Taiwan is part of China. Fact it they dont see why so many should die and would prefer to wait it out is wrong.

Talk about bloodthirsty.

Since you so gungho on that and support that declaration of independent are you willing to go fight China when they attack because of this.
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-06-05 11:52 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. Right, Goa belongs or Portugal, Pakistan and India are one ...
Empires are not doing well these days, China is a decaying empire.
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Oversea Visitor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 02:58 AM
Response to Reply #4
9. Yeah
and US kill hundreds of thousands in Afghanistan and Iraq to conquer it.

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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 11:25 AM
Response to Reply #9
11. Exactly.
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Oversea Visitor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 02:49 AM
Response to Original message
6. Well
Think Taiwan should declare independent then China send in their troops. Then you guys can go to war with China.


I am sure its a just war Freedom Liberty Democracy

As for Penang and all that shit we were colonised by the British Empire just like USA so??

We only gain our independent in 1956. Without innocents dying in needless battle.

I surprise at the quality of brains cells display in the narrow minded view to world problems. Maybe Toyota is right.
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 11:31 AM
Response to Reply #6
13. Tsk, tsk, no personal attacks.
Edited on Thu Jul-07-05 11:31 AM by bemildred
Calling people "narrow minded" is not an argument, it's an admission that you have no argument.
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dArKeR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 11:11 PM
Response to Original message
14. Facing up to the denial of justice
Taiwan's democratic transformation has evoked so many feelings in the public, including expectation, discouragement, despair and powerlessness. The underlying reason for such emotional complexity is mainly the absence of appropriate government action addressing historical injustices. As a result, the truth remains concealed and the victims of the White Terror have been almost completely forgotten with time.

Let us consider the examples of the murders between the Kaohsiung Incident up until the beginning of the social movements. One of these is the killing of family members of former Democratic Progressive Party (DPP) chairman Lin Yi-hsiung (???) on Feb. 28, 1980; the other is the Chen Wen-chen (???) incident on July 2 of the following year. Almost everyone acknowledges the Chinese Nationalist Party (KMT) government was responsible for the murders, yet to this day the authorities have not been able to conduct a new investigation into the incidents to collect new evidence and find the perpetrators.

Before the memorial ceremony for the 20th anniversary of Chen's martyr-like death, sponsored by the Chen Wen-chen Memorial Foundation, an appeal was entered by Chen's relatives for a new trial, but it continues to be rejected because of a lack of new evidence.

Who needs evidence? We follow America!
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Lefty48197 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-09-05 08:07 AM
Response to Original message
15. I went to school with a guy from Taiwan
When I asked him where he was from, he said, "China". I think the people of Taiwan can be compared to the Cubans in Miami.
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Java Donating Member (77 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-09-05 06:16 PM
Response to Original message
16. Taiwan originally belonged to Taiwanese Aborigines
See: /

When people usually mean when they refer to Taiwanese are Chinese people who came from the Fukijen Province and colonized Taiwan, forcing the Aborigine peoples into the Mountains.

China's claim to Taiwan is about as legitimate as Japan's claim.

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dArKeR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-09-05 10:10 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. And if you go back a little further I think you'd find the Taiwanese
Edited on Sat Jul-09-05 10:21 PM by dArKeR
Aboriginals came from Micronesia. (I'm blowing it out my nose now. It's been a long time since World's Religions in college.) I believe the Micronesians sailed west, north, east then south. Which took them to the PI, TW, Marshall Islands, Hawaiian Islands, then the Tahitian Islands. 100% on the Marshall Islands, Hawaiian Islands, then the Tahitian Islands. If you look at the still used boats, tools on the two outer Formosan Islands of Green and Lan Yu they look very Micronesian. So in theory, Micronesia is the heir of China, Japan, TW, PI...
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Maple Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-12-05 12:22 AM
Response to Original message
18. Rejoin China
and be done with it. Than you can move on.

Taiwan is wasting their big chance in political game playing.
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rfkrfk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-12-05 02:38 AM
Response to Reply #18
19. tell that to Tibet,
East Timor, Bosnia, the countries of the
former Soviet Union, Norway, etc
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