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NNadir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-25-06 05:00 AM
Original message
Duke Power Selects Cherokee County Site for Nuclear Plant Application


Duke Power Selects Cherokee County Site for Nuclear Plant Application

Duke Power enters agreement with Southern Company on potential Cherokee project
Duke Power to consider early site permit applications for additional nuclear projects in North Carolina and South Carolina
Media teleconference Thursday, March 16, at 1 p.m. ET. Media may dial in at 800/807-8494 to hear the briefing and participate in the question and answer period.

CHARLOTTE, N.C. – Duke Power has selected a site in Cherokee County, S.C., for a potential new nuclear power plant. Duke Power also announced it has entered into an agreement with Southern Company to evaluate potential plant construction at this jointly owned location.

With selection of the Cherokee County site, Duke Power is moving forward with previously announced plans to develop an application to the U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission (NRC) for a combined construction and operating license (COL) for two Westinghouse AP1000 (advanced passive) reactors. Each reactor is capable of producing approximately 1,117 megawatts


http://www.dukepower.com/news/releases/2006/Mar/2006031601.asp
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blindpig Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-25-06 07:58 AM
Response to Original message
1. About 50 miles from me.....
So, what do you think about this particular plant, efficiency, economic and safety wise?
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NNadir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-25-06 08:36 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. I think the AP-1000 is an excellent reactor.
You will enjoy reasonably priced power, lower air pollution, and relative stability. You will have fewer of the health problems connected with coal.

I wish they were building one near me.
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blindpig Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-25-06 09:53 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. Won't benefit directly
as I recieve my juice from a local rural co-op. Prices seem better and the service certainly is better than Duke.
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NNadir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-25-06 09:55 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. How does your co-op generate its power?
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blindpig Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-25-06 10:09 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. Buys from the market I guess.
No doubt most of my electricity is produced by nukes, there are two plants within 100 miles. I like very much that it is a non-profit, stock-holder free operation.
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NNadir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-25-06 10:54 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. That's fine with me.
If it works well, I don't have a problem with it at all.

In fact though, you will benefit from the nuke plant since your co-op buys power and does not generate it itself.

You are not alone, by the way, in not knowing exactly where your power comes from. Most Americans are routinely unaware of how energy is produced. They think it comes from the switch, the thermostat and the gas pump. To the extent that people are aware of where energy comes from, the generally over-estimate production from hydro, wind and solar, since all that stuff reduces Pavlovian guilt.

Personally I am relieved that 50% of the electricity generated in my state is nuclear. I wish it were more.
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Dogmudgeon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-25-06 08:46 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. And don't forget ...
... your babies will glow in the dark and you will be overcome with the urge to vote Republican.

:evilgrin:

You will also die. I live near Three Mile Island, and my doctor has given me less than 50 years left to live -- and that's only if I stop shooting smack.

--p!
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JohnWxy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-25-06 05:49 PM
Response to Reply #3
12. Some info on nuclear waste
http://www.nirs.org/factsheets/llwfct.htm


"Low-Level" Radioactive Waste includes:

Irradiated Components and Piping: reactor hardware and pipes that are in continual contact with highly radioactive water for the 20 to 30 years the reactor operates. The metal becomes "activated" or radioactive itself from bombardment by neutrons that are released when energy is produced. Also called Irradiated Primary System Components.

Control Rods: from the core of nuclear power plants--rods that regulate and stop the nuclear reactions in the reactor core.

Poison Curtains: which absorb neutrons from the water in the reactor core and irradiated fuel (high level waste) pool.

Resins, Sludges, Filters and Evaporator Bottoms: from cleansing the water that circulates around the irradiated fuel in the reactor vessel and in the fuel pool, which holds the irradiated fuel when it is removed from the core.

Entire Nuclear Power Plants if and when they are dismantled. This includes, for example, from a typical 1,000 megawatt nuclear reactor building floor: over 13,000 tons of contaminated concrete and over 1,400 tons of contaminated reinforcing steel bar.

The highly radioactive and long-lived reactor wastes are included in the "low-level" waste category along with the much less concentrated and generally much shorter-lived wastes from medical treatment and diagnosis and some types of scientific research.

~~~~
~~~~

HALF-LIFE and HAZARDOUS LIFE

Radioactive elements decay by emitting energy in the form of radioactive particles and rays. As radiation is given off, other elements (some radioactive and some stable) are formed.

The Half-Life is the time it takes for HALF of the radioactive element to decay (give off half of its radioactivity). Different radioactive elements have different half-lives.

The Hazardous Life of a radioactive element is about 10 or 20 Half-Lives. (It is best to measure the amount of radiation after 10 or 20 half-lives before releasing waste from active controls.)

Reactor waste remains hazardous for a very long time. Most medical waste from treatment and diagnosis is hazardous for a very short time. Research and industrial waste can contain small amounts of some long-lived radioactive materials.

Among the radioactive elements commonly found in nuclear reactor "low-level" waste are:

Tritium, with a half-life of 12 years and a hazardous life of 120-240 years;

Iodine-131, half-life of 8 days, hazardous life of 80-160 days;

Strontium-90, half life of 28 years, hazardous life of 280-560 years;

Nickel-59, half life of 76,000 years, hazardous life of 760,000-1,520,000 years, and

Iodine-129, half-life of sixteen million years, hazardous life of160-320 million years.

By contrast, common medical waste elements include Technetium-99m, with a half-life of 6 hours and a hazardous life of 2.5-5 days; Galium-67, half-life of 78 hours and hazardous life of 1-2 months; and Iodine-131, with its half-life of 8 days and hazardous life of 80-160 days.

The vast majority of medical waste is hazardous for less than 8 months. Yet, it is in the same category as reactor waste that will be hazardous for hundreds of thousands to millions of years.

Clearly, the definition of "low-level radioactive waste" must be changed. It would make sense to redefine the more concentrated and/or longer-lived waste as high-level. Active recontainerization and operational control must be provided for the entire hazardous life of the waste, yet the NRC requires only 100 years of passive institutional control. Thus, waste hazardous longer than 100 years could be forgotten. Retrievability is essential.

PLANNED LEAKAGE AND "ACCEPTABLE" RISK

Waste containers and forms will not last as long as some waste remains hazardous. Therefore, waste should be placed in a manner which will facilitate recontainerization and make continued isolation from the environment possible in the future. If the waste is "disposed of" as the NRC currently requires, it will not be isolated from the environment. "Planned leakage will occur at (what NRC considers) an "acceptable" leak rate leading to "acceptable" public radiation exposures and health risks. The allowable leak rates and exposure levels are determined by federal agencies, not those experiencing the risk.
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jpak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-25-06 01:13 PM
Response to Original message
8. Ah yes, the Southern Company - a co-conspirator in Dick Cheney's
Energy Task Task Force, Charter Member of the infamous anti-climate Climate Coalition, Big Time GOP Donor and FO"W".

How much of my tax money will be spent on building this plant and how much will I have to pay to subsidize the electricity produced???

Subsidize a "mature" energy technology???? How Bushie is that!!!!!

Lot's of COL applications (50% of the application cost paid by taxpayers) - but still no reactor orders!!!

Talk is cheap....
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NNadir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-25-06 03:24 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. Talk is indeed cheap.
Edited on Sat Mar-25-06 03:24 PM by NNadir
As we know from repetition, many people like to pretend that renewable energy is sufficient to replace fossil fuels, at least until someone says that realistic word "exajoule."

Some people try to extend the renewable fantasy to include a capability to replace not only fossil fuels, but also the much safer, cleaner, more reliable and cheaper nuclear option.

To disprove these second, more dubious, claim, again all one needs to say is "exajoule."

Nuclear energy now produces almost 30 exajoules of primary (thermal energy) and 9 exajoules of pure electrical energy.

Once we dispose of the renewable fantasy - which is a form of doing nothing about global climate change through the agency of denial - the argument is reduced to the old tried and true logical fallacy of "Guilt by Association." Chanting "Dick Cheney" often and loud does nothing to make nuclear power as dangerous as its alternatives - alternatives that I note are also promoted by Dick Cheney. As a technical issue, the distinctions are clear. Nuclear power works on an exajoule scale and has a low external cost.

The nature of the "Guilt by Association" fallacy is easily dismissed (as are all anti-nuclear arguments) by noting that the rejection of the misleading and poorly thought out anti-nuclear position is international, and is independent worldwide from the contents of any scheme by Dick Cheney. As I recently pointed out in another thread, the nuclear power plant that came on line last week in Japan, for reference sake, can easily produce 5 times as much energy as the entire United States produced from solar power in 2004. In any case, even if it worked on a significant exajoule scale, which it doesn't, solar power is not a constant power base load source in any case.

The base load energy case comes down increasingly to a choice between coal and nuclear, disregarding whatever gas and oil are left. In the face of the global climate change crisis that faces all humanity, I would personally advocate our government purchasing many hundreds of nuclear reactors. The investment of trillions of dollars in this cause would give us a fighting chance at a safe future - a chance that is rapidly disappearing. On a risk managed basis, this would be money that would give us the best shot at surviving a very difficult situation. Unfortunately our government - ruled by weak minded frauds - has chose instead to invest in fossil fuel wars, an egregious mistake.

The Department of Energy budget of the United States is on the order twenty to thirty billion dollars, and much of that is actually for nuclear weapons, fossil fuels, renewable energy etc.

http://www.mbe.doe.gov/budget/05budget/content/highlite/highlite.pdf

Given the scale of the international emergency and its direct consequences for Americans, this is a disgrace. For my money, given the history of return on investment, nuclear power gets a share of the budget that is way too small. I personally would be all in favor of reducing the expenditure on the Department of Defense to rump status and sinking all that money into energy, because as things are developing, there is right now little defense from the consequences and implications of the matter of energy and the environment. Nuclear funding should be expanded. Since it is the only new form of energy invented in the last 100 years that has produced on an exajoule scale, any rational person can easily recognize it really demands more investment than it has enjoyed.

I recognize the tendency of the anti-nuclear movement to distort issues of money spent - just as it relies on the distortion of all other issues to make an increasingly desperate and frankly, silly, case. The annualized cost of nuclear energy is the equivalent of a few days of oil imports or, a few days of the cost of environmental destruction wrought by coal operations.

The anti-nuclear case is now widely recognized to be without merit and has been rejected. One hopes that it is not too late.
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jpak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-25-06 04:45 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. Dick Cheney and Southern Company were the authors
Edited on Sat Mar-25-06 04:54 PM by jpak
of ChimpCo's nuclear giveaway program.

Subsidies are ~$2 Billion for each new reactor - $2 billion in subsidies for reactors that *supposedly* cost ~$2 billion to build - including a 1.8 cent per kWh production credit (more than the production credit for wind power).

This whole scheme is GOP Crony Politics at its worse.

Futhermore, it is fantasy to think that nuclear power will save us from global warming.

Global uranium supplies cannot support an expanded nuclear power program. The uranium simply is not there. Nuclear - unlike renewables - is unsustainable.

These new nuclear plants will NOT replace existing coal-fired plants and they will NOT result in the cancelation of any new coal-fired plants.

And, as we all know, the life cycle GHG emissions from a nuclear power plant exceed life cycle emissions from a similarly sized gas-fired power plant.

Conservation and wide-spread use of domestic PV and solar hot water would result in a significant decline in demand for electricity and heating fuels. This will subsequently reduce greenhouse gas emissions from the grid and from homes.

The Supply SIde approach of simply building new nuclear power plants cannot reduce energy demand at the consumer level.

Finally, I would rather that the government subsidize domestic PV and hot water systems than new nuclear power plants. These system "empower" homeowners - not corporate GOP contibutors.

I do not want to hand my tax money over to GOP Cronies who will use that money to build nuclear power plants and then charge me for electricity produced.

A fundamental difference in approach.

PS I also not want to subsidize the Southern Company - a corporation that campaigned against the Kyoto Treaty and US efforts to combat global warming.

another fundamental difference....

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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-25-06 05:34 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. Deleted message
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jpak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-26-06 02:13 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. It's a sad day when one criticizes GOP energy policy
on DU and gets flamed for it.
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NNadir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-26-06 02:58 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. Oh please...
:eyes: :puke: :cry:

Making the "Guilt by Association" argument ever more convoluted does not make it any less desperate.

There are three kinds of energy on the planet: Renewable, fossil, and nuclear. (We will ignore for a second that the first two are actually special cases of the last.) The GOP is mostly notable for its actions on the second of these cases, but they include all three in their propaganda.

Again, that fact has no bearing on the merits of the three options. Renewable energy is the oldest form of energy, but it is incapable of providing enough energy for our industrial society without leading to wholesale tragedy. Its capability is not measurable at an exajoule scale. Fossil fuels are unacceptably risky and the consequences of their use is becoming readily apparent. Only nuclear energy is scalable, available and safe. Again saying "GOP" and "nuclear" in the same sentence, chanting that sentence 50 billion times will do nothing to change the physical facts involved.

In fact you are not criticizing the GOP. You are merely narrowly bad mouthing one of the three forms of energy while irrationally ignoring a second, more dangerous form, and fantasizing irrationally about the potential of the third.

The picture of Bush speaking at Sandia Laboratories about the wonders of solar stirling systems, available in this link, which I have produced before, does not have anything whatsoever to do with whether or not Stirling Solar Power plants are a good idea or whether they can produce useful energy:

http://www.stirlingenergy.com/breaking_news.htm

It is known for a fact that one of the first people to promote the corrupt Presidency of George W. Bush was the Green Mountain Energy mogul Sam Wyly, who in 2000 funded all kinds of ads about the wonderful environmental ideas of the then Governor of Texas. Because Sam Wyly is in the wind power business has nothing to do with whether wind power is a good idea or should be expanded.

http://www.dallasobserver.com/issues/2000-04-06/news2.html

In fact, the largest growth of nuclear power is not in the United States, which is in fact lagging behind the rest of the world because of Bushian fossil fuel mysticism. Fossil fuel of course was an exercise on the part of Bush supporters in denial. In fact the whole argument that the world can survive for very long without rapid expansion of nuclear power is denial. I note that many advocates of nuclear power oppose fossil fuels. I know only a few people who are still dogmatically "renewable is the only acceptable form of energy" advocates. Almost everyone of them was in a panic when the hurricanes took out the gas wells this summer. Speaking only for myself, I saw it as a silver lining, since it got people thinking seriously about the issues. The sooner we get serious, the sooner we can get real. We'd better get real pretty quickly too, because we don't have much time left.


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jpak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-26-06 04:20 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. I reserve the right to bad mouth nuclear power
and the Bush administration at every opportunity - and I will.

Let's talk US uranium supplies.

In 2004, US reactors used 62 million pounds of yellow cake.

US mines produced only ~2 million pounds of yellowcake in 2004 - down from 43 million pounds in 1980.

US uranium stockpiles are dwindling rapidly - down from ~185 million pounds in 1984 to ~94 million pounds today.

The US imported ~66 million pounds of yellowcake in 2004.

US uranium reserves @ $50 a pound are 890 million pounds.

What does this say about the security and future of US uranium supplies???

A lot - and one can run the numbers any way one wants - it's all bad news.

If the US had to depend entirely on its remaining uranium reserves, they would last <24 years.

At its peak - US uranium mines produced significantly less yellowcake (again, ~43 million pounds) than US reactors use today (again, ~62 million pounds).

When current US uranium stockpiles are depleted, the US will be almost entirely dependant on foreign uranium.

The US is in keen competition with all the other importers of uranium: France, Japan, India, China, UK, Germany, Sweden, Finland, Latvia, Mexico, South Korea, et al.

Global uranium production peaked in 2001.

The World Nuclear Association predicts a significant shortfall in global uranium production relative to demand in the next 5-10 years.

Some of those countries are going to lose a significant portion of their uranium supplies - they all can't "win".

So how is this going to help fight global warming????

It won't - any shortfall in global nuclear power production will be made up by power produced from fossil fuels - most likely coal.

We know the uranium isn't there to support an expanded nuclear power program, so why spend billions to build reactors that we won't be able to fuel in the out years????

Renewable energy is the ONLY sustainable energy option we have, and we better start facing up to that reality PDQ.



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NNadir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-26-06 06:10 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. No one is saying you don't have a right to bad mouth nuclear power.
It is certainly among your rights and you exercise it freely, repeating the same stuff over and over and over and over, most of which I think is made up

And over and over and over and over I produce data that refutes it.
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jpak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-27-06 01:09 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. Made up??? I don't think so...
The uranium numbers were "made up" by the US EIA and are available here...

Uranium Overview, 1949-2004

http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/aer/nuclear.html

"Highlights" of the 2005 Energy bill....

http://www.uic.com.au/nip58.htm

<snip>

* production tax credit of 1.8 c/kWh from the first 6000 MWe of new nuclear plants in their first 8 years of operation.

(Edit: do the math: 1.8 cents per kWh, 6000 MWe of capacity operating for 8 years = ~$6 billion)

* federal risk insurance of $2 billion to cover regulatory delays in full-power operation of the first six advanced new plants,

* federal loan guarantees for advanced nuclear reactors or other emission-free technologies up to 80% of the project cost.

(Edit: do the math: Six 1GW plants @ $2 billion a piece - 80% of that cost provided by taxpayer guaranteed loans = ~$9 billion)

* the Price Anderson Act for nuclear liability protection extended for 20 years.

<snip>

The Energy Bill of 2005 was "made up" by the Bush administration.

Those are the numbers from that bill, they are also not "made up"...



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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-27-06 08:17 PM
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-26-06 03:26 PM
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NNadir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-25-06 07:16 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. I have discussed the logical fallacy of "Guilt by Association" many times.
Many people think they can effect physical events by saying "Satan" or by saying "Jesus."

Actually mouthing these words has no effect on physical events however.

So it is with the physics of nuclear reactors, the chemistry of atmospheres, and the chemistry of uranium. Saying "Dick Cheney" and "nuclear" in the same sentence has no effect whatsoever on whether nuclear power is safer than it's alternatives.

I thought everybody knew this.

It would be wonderful if there were many viable means to provide baseline energy. However there are only two viable approaches available to humanity. They are nuclear and fossil fuels. Fossil fuels are unacceptably dangerous and their continued use will probably be fatal to humanity.

As for the absurd contention that nuclear energy is a public works project, I have many times stated that I wish it were so. It should be so, since nuclear power is a proved source of energy on industrial scale that does not depend on obfuscation and misleading promises about some vague future. However it is not the case.

I have produced in a previous post the budget of the Department of Energy. The numbers are very clear and clearly do not represent billions of subsidies for each new reactor. In fact the capital expenditure for the Department of Energy for new energy sources for plants was $835,265,000, less than 1 billion dollars, and not enough to build a single nuclear plant of 1000 MWe or, a today's prices, a solar facility that produces 200 MW, even using the "peak" power scam. If one is unable to negotiate the link at the Department of Energy website, this information can be found here:

http://www.mbe.doe.gov/budget/05budget/content/es/approp.pdf

In fact, there is a considerable amount of money being spent on technologies that have yet to produce an exajoule of energy, in spite of billions invested in research. The argument that nuclear power is unacceptable because it is subsidized is typical of all anti-nuclear arguments, an attempt to misrepresent the readily verifiable situation in order to justify irrational biases.

I am a liberal. I believe that government should invest in infrastructure, especially infrastructure that is critical to human safety and the safety of future generations. Clearly in the field of energy, the only proved option for providing a safe infrastructure is nuclear energy.

I note that in many countries where Dick Cheney is held in justifiable contempt this conclusion has been reached without any appeal to his statements, policies or actions, including especially his absurd fear mongering uranium demonetization comments used to justify the war in Iraq, that silly business about Saddam Hussein and the Niger uranium purchases. The world as a whole has rejected Dick Cheney, but it has not rejected nuclear power. Nuclear power continues to operate on an exajoule scale.

I would be thrilled if the government announced a one trillion dollar program to build 500 nuclear reactors. It would go a long way toward relieving my fear of what is befalling humanity. It would be worth the money, worth the financial risk of borrowing and spending that much. Since it would provide capacity it would, indeed, be an investment and one which clearly give returns for many decades and centuries to come.

The argument about there not being "enough" uranium is, as I have shown many times, on the same level as all of the other arguments against nuclear energy. If it were true, of course, nuclear opponents would not be so desperate to make their other irrational arguments, since nuclear power would simply "go away." (In fact for many decades the anti-nuclear argument was precisely that: "Nuclear energy will go away." But it's not going away.)

No one would object if the renewable option were able to play a serious scalable role in the fight against global climate change, by the way, but thus far, hydroelectricity excepted, it has failed to provide even 1% of world energy demand, which would be 4.4 exajoules.

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jpak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-26-06 04:39 PM
Response to Reply #8
18. Some fun facts on the Southern Company and their views on fighting
global warming

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Global_Climate_Coalition

Not one penny of my tax money for these folks - not one.
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struggle4progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-27-06 12:43 AM
Response to Reply #18
20. It looks like Southern is playing a shell-game with the Carolinas:
the company appears to be considering a number of sites in the region, with inconsistent press in different areas. I might expect some bait-and-switch with these proposed reactors ...
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