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FBaggins Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-18-11 01:27 PM
Original message
German energy - Shock to the system
Edited on Thu Aug-18-11 01:37 PM by FBaggins
ELECTRICITY producers in Germany are in disarray. The cause of the chaos is the government: in June it decided to shut all the country’s nuclear power stations by 2022, after Japan’s struggles to contain radiation leaks from its reactors following an earthquake and tsunami in March.

A study commissioned by the economics ministry has estimated the cost of that decision, in lost jobs and higher energy and carbon prices, at around €32 billion ($46 billion). The government had planned to extend the life of nuclear plants by an average of 12 years.

...snip...

More disturbing, perhaps, is that the disarray extends to the renewables industry, which is supposed to benefit from the nuclear closures and fill the gap. Germany’s solar industry, once the world leader, has been eclipsed by Asian producers and the country’s onshore wind-power specialists are being buffeted by a move to offshore wind farms. The technology for capturing and storing carbon emitted by hard-coal and lignite plants is still not commercially proven. The nuclear gap, says a study prepared jointly by the Institute of Energy Economics at Cologne University, and two consultancies, GWS in Osnabrück and Prognos in Basel, Switzerland, is more likely to be filled by new gas-fired power plants and electricity imports. Both will be expensive and increase Germany’s dependence on foreign and sometimes fickle gas suppliers. Prolonged use of coal and lignite plants, without carbon capture, will drive up the price of carbon-emission certificates and hence the cost of electricity, not only for Germany but across the European carbon-trading area.

A bleak picture indeed, without much sunlight from the solar industry. It was, though, always an artificial market, says Wolfgang Hummel, an energy expert at the University of Applied Sciences in Berlin. Solar-panel producers flourished, especially in eastern Germany, mainly because of the guaranteed premiums, known as feed-in tariffs, that solar-power suppliers can get for electricity sold to the grid. The government-guaranteed premiums have been sharply reduced, while those for wind farms have been kept high—higher still for offshore ones. Now investors in solar arrays have to compete with fewer subsidies. That has sent the share prices of Germany’s solar champions, such as Phoenix, SMA Solar and Solarworld, spiralling downwards.

http://www.economist.com/node/21526366


Almost $50 Billion down the drain and increased harm to the environment. What a plan!

That has sent the share prices of Germany’s solar champions, such as Phoenix, SMA Solar and Solarworld, spiralling downwards

Indeed. SolarWorld down from a high in the mid 60s just a few years ago to a new low under $6 today. Phoenix is doing a little better (only down 80%) while SMA is still getting by (but IIRC they're more in the inverter business, which China hasn't buried - yet).
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kristopher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-18-11 01:33 PM
Response to Original message
1. That's nothing but squirming propaganda by a dying nuclear industry.
Edited on Thu Aug-18-11 01:37 PM by kristopher
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FBaggins Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-18-11 01:38 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. You do know that calling facts "propaganda" just because they make you uncomfortable...
Edited on Thu Aug-18-11 01:39 PM by FBaggins
...isn't a particularly strong argument. Don't you?

Or was this just an excuse to spam your latest marching orders from above?
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NickB79 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-18-11 02:15 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. Are the authors of the study known nuclear propagandists?
Does the Institute of Energy Economics at Cologne University, or GWS in Osnabrück and Prognos in Basel, Switzerland, have a history of promoting nuclear power?
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kristopher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-18-11 02:18 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. I was referring to The Economist nt
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DCKit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-18-11 01:50 PM
Response to Original message
3. So there's a total lack of commitment by the German government. Shocking.
I guess it's up to the people to change their government and reinstate (then expand) the programs that will increase investment in alternatives. They've still got a couple of years to play catch-up.

The people of Germany want alternatives to nuclear and coal.
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kristopher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-18-11 02:15 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. And they are clearly going to get them. nt
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CJvR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-18-11 04:54 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. So?
Just because you want something doesn't mean you can get it, or that it is even possible to get. I suppose they could dam the Rhein if they were willing to sacrifice a few minor cities like Köln...
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DCKit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-18-11 10:32 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. The fact that you are even willing to suggest they dam(n) the Rhine...
lets me (and probably a bunch of others) know that you don't know WTF you're talking about.

You didn't think beyond the very basics of your argument, then made it on the most environmentally damaging grounds.

Amateur.
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CJvR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-19-11 09:11 AM
Response to Reply #8
10. You think...
...you would be able to replace 90% of the energy production without some major projects? There are not much non-nuke & carbon power sources available to Germany. The Rhein valley is probably the only major site where hydro power can be built in a large enough scale to have any impact in Germany - which today only generates a few% of it's power from hydro.
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DCKit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-20-11 08:04 AM
Response to Reply #10
14. Let me tell you a little story....
When my grandfather was a little boy, the Susquehanna river in PA used to run with so many shad and eel every year, that everyone could eat for pennies. His father died of flu around 1900, but he made enough money (at ten) working in the coal mines to support the family.

Not so much, anymore.

I'm not a big fan of dam(n)ming rivers.
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SpoonFed Donating Member (801 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-19-11 08:48 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. You are so correct...
I mean if we were to look at any country or people in the world, it would be safe to say that the Germans are the ones that are totally incapable of meeting any engineering or technical challenges put before them. :sarcasm: They are just a bunch of TV watching, Cheetos eating, Internet surfing layabouts.
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CJvR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-19-11 09:14 AM
Response to Reply #9
11. Your argument...
...is based on the notion that there is a solution.
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SpoonFed Donating Member (801 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-20-11 06:35 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. Actually...

Your argument is that there is no solution, except your implied solution; nukushima filth plant license renewals.
My argument and plenty of other pro-renewable people think there are plenty of solutions, you and your cohorts just do not like those ones.
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DCKit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-20-11 07:25 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. I see you're falling for all that "green" crap. Well, me too.
We can do it better. In so many ways.

I'm getting weary of the argument that "It'll never work HERE". JFC, why not? We have winter to take the load off our refrigerators and, when it's HOT, we have the sun to run our AC and refrigeration. How does that not work?

Even if we have to make some small sacrifices and changes in our daily lives, it's all shit we just have to get used to. I don't get why "some people" are terrified of making those changes and learning to live with them. What a bunch of sissies we are.
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