Pope blames atheists for global warming

[stuntcat]

http://www.examiner.com/humanist-in-portland/pope-blames-atheists-for-global-warming?fb_comment=14305106

The Pope blames atheists for global warming. Pope Benedict is claiming atheists are responsible for the destruction of the environment. The Pope made the claims in a recent speech given at the Vatican. The claim is a puzzling attack on atheism that frankly makes little sense.

Popey: "Is it not true that inconsiderate use of creation begins where God is marginalized or also where his existence is denied? If the human creature's relationship with the Creator weakens, matter is reduced to egoistic possession, man becomes the 'final authority,' and the objective of existence is reduced to a feverish race to possess the most possible."

But wait!! Who's holy book is that says to "fill and subdue" the Earth?? :*

[peace13]

1. Said the man in the gold lined cape and the ruby shoes! n/t

[Viva_La_Revolution]

3. but the hats bring the look together!

:rofl:

[SCantiGOP]

5. like your joke

love your avatar

[AmericaIsGreat]

2. What a dipshit

It's the Christian zealots who keep saying God did not make the Earth so that we would be able to affect it in such a big way; that only God has the ability to do warm the planet such that it would endanger us, so we shouldn't be worried and keep going about our daily business as usual.

[OKIsItJustMe]

13. “Christian zealots” are to blame — No. I don’t think so.

There are a number of people who seem to hold this self-destructive attitude towards the earth, with no guidance at all from religious teaching. Some simply choose to justify their beliefs with their religion, just as people who wanted to own slaves justified their actions by religion.

However, the hard-core abolitionists were people like the Quakers, the Methodists and the Baptists who felt compelled by their religion to end slavery. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abolitionism#Calls_for_abolition


Roman Catholics actually have a long history of environmentalism, dating back to Saint Francis and beyond:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_of_Assisi#Nature_and_the_environment

…

Francis preached the teaching of the Catholic Church, that the world was created good and beautiful by God but suffers a need for redemption because of the primordial sin of man. He preached to man and beast the universal ability and duty of all creatures to praise God (a common theme in the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psalms">Psalms) and the duty of men to protect and enjoy nature as both the stewards of God's creation and as creatures ourselves.^{http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_of_Assisi#cite_note-b78-30">31} Legend has it that St. Francis on his deathbed thanked his donkey for carrying and helping him throughout his life, and his donkey wept.

…

[AmericaIsGreat]

17. No, they are definitely not to blame

I'm not saying they caused any of this, just that that argument is very popular among Christian fundamentalists/evangelicals.

[OKIsItJustMe]

20. What I question is the suggestion of a causal relationship

Are Christian fundamentalists/evangelicals convinced by religious teaching to undervalue the environment? or do they simply use religion as one way to justify their values?

I would argue that it is the latter.

After all, http://solveclimatenews.com/news/20101102/study-only-47-republicans-think-global-warming-happening">only 47% of Republicans believe in Global Warming. Are we to conclude that 53% of Republicans are Christian fundamentalists/evangelicals? (Or did they come to their beliefs some other way?)

Also, consider that at least some Christian fundamentalists/evangelicals are led to environmentalism by their religious beliefs, consider (for example) the “http://creationcare.org/">Evangelical Environmental Network”

Welcome to the home page of the Evangelical Environmental Network (EEN) a ministry that seeks to educate, equip, inspire, and mobilize Christians in their effort to care for God's creation, to be faithful stewards of God's provision, and to advocate for actions and policies that honor God and protect the environment.

Founded in 1993, EEN's work is grounded in the Bible's teaching on the responsibility of God's people to "tend the garden" and in a desire to be faithful to Jesus Christ and to follow Him. EEN publishes materials to equip and inspire individuals, families, and churches; and seeks to educate and mobilize people to make a difference in their churches and communities, and to speak out on national and international policies that affect our ability to preach the Gospel, protect life, and care for God's Creation. …

[AmericaIsGreat]

23. The latter

They use their religion as one way to justify it.

There was never an implied connection between the faith itself and undervaluing the environment. I was just pointing out, in light of the Pope's stupid remarks, that you can just as easily talk about the argument posited by some Christians as proof to the opposite.

I had never heard of the Evangelical Environmental Network, though. Interesting stuff; thanks for the link.

[SCantiGOP]

4. Don't you remember

The Department of Energy guy for Reagan, can't grab his name right now, who said that conservation went against what the Bible preached. Reasoning: the bible says God put everything on earth that man needed, so, when it runs out it will be time for the End Times. Therefore, conserving any resource is not trusting that God gave us everything we needed. Sorry that I labeled this as "reasoning" rather than as "delusional."

[peace13]

8. In ohio if you have a sailboat or canoe or kayak on the waters of the state....

you have to pay a conservation tax!!!!!! It's true. If you don't use oil then you must pay a tax. Go figure!

[MountainLaurel]

15. James Watt? n/t

[hatrack]

24. I think it was James Watt, who was his Interior Secy. -

Something to the effect that The Lord would be returning soon, so it really didn't matter what happened to the Earth.

And not a single one of the Distinguished Gentlemen and Honorable Gentlewomen called him on his bad acid trip, Sky Fairy ravings, or even wondered aloud, even ever-so-gently, if such beliefs meant that he might not be the best guy for the gig.

Fucking disgusting political cowardice at its worst.

[xfundy]

6. I see... so atheists, gays and libruls are more powerful than god.

Truly, is there ANYTHING we can't do?

[Enrique]

7. im an athiest and i like this statement

the Pope is being a bit of a lefty here, which imo is a good thing.

[Kolesar]

9. The Catholic Church lobby has environmental protection to their credit

But this is fucked

[NickB79]

10. Yeah, because atheists have been in control of the world for the past 2000 years

I'm sure atheists were behind the mass deforestation of the globe, the Industrial Revolution that started us down the path of burning coal, the vision of Manifest Destiny that pushed destruction across the continents, and the refusal to control population growth when it was apparent that we were passing the planet's carrying capacity.

[stuntcat]

12. and it's atheists' fault the richest countries are wasting their resources on holy wars!

and at the very moment when we could be using that power to help the cute lil' babies' future!

Ohhh but it's funny how this stuff works out.. almost makes me think there's a big hand smacking the entire human race to Hell.


I have to try to laugh.....

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

11. But nooo, there's no such thing as institutionalized bigotry against atheists.

If you say there is, you're a whiny militant atheist! :banghead:

[OKIsItJustMe]

14. You did notice that story is 2 years old, right?

I wonder, has the Vatican said anything about Climate Change recently?

http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_academies/acdscien/2011/PAS_Glacier_110511_final.pdf

…

May 11, 2011

Declaration by the Working Group

We call on all people and nations to recognise the serious and potentially irreversible impacts of global warming caused by the anthropogenic emissions of greenhouse gases and other pollutants, and by changes in forests, wetlands, grasslands, and other land uses. We appeal to all nations to develop and implement, without delay, effective and fair policies to reduce the causes and impacts of climate change on communities and ecosystems, including mountain glaciers and their watersheds, aware that we all live in the same home. By acting now, in the spirit of common but differentiated responsibility, we accept our duty to one another and to the stewardship of a planet blessed with the gift of life.

We are committed to ensuring that all inhabitants of this planet receive their daily bread, fresh air to breathe and clean water to drink as we are aware that, if we want justice and peace, we must protect the habitat that sustains us. The believers among us ask God to grant us this wish.

…

Three Recommended Measures: Human-caused changes in the composition of the air and air quality result in more than 2 million premature deaths worldwide every year and threaten water and food security —especially among those “bottom 3 billion” people who are too poor to avail of the protections made possible by fossil fuel use and industrialization. Since a sustainable future based on the continued extrac- tion of coal, oil and gas in the “business-as-usual mode” will not be possible because of both resource depletion and environmental damages (as caused, e.g., by dangerous sea level rise) we urge our societies to:

1. Reduce worldwide carbon dioxide emissions without delay, using all means possible to meet ambitious international global warming targets and ensure the long-term stability of the climate system. All nations must focus on a rapid transition to renewable energy sources and other strategies to reduce CO2 emissions. Nations should also avoid removal of carbon sinks by stopping deforestation, and should strengthen carbon sinks by reforestation of degraded lands. They also need to develop and deploy technologies that draw down excess carbon dioxide in the atmosphere. These actions must be accomplished within a few decades.


2. Reduce the concentrations of warming air pollutants (darksoot, methane, lower atmosphere ozone, and hydrofluorocarbons) by as much as 50%, to slow down climate change during this century while preventing millions of premature deaths from respiratory disease and millions of tons of crop damages every year.


3. Prepare to adapt to the climatic changes, both chronic and abrupt, that society will be unable to mitigate. In particular, we call for a global capacity-building initiative to assess the natural and social impacts of climate change in mountain systems and related watersheds.

…

http://arstechnica.com/science/news/2011/05/anthropocene-vatican-climate-change-group-coins-name-for-our-era.ars

[MountainLaurel]

16. May 11, 2011 is 2 years ago?

Are you from the future?

[OKIsItJustMe]

18. No, the OP is 2 years old

This paper is much more recent.

[stuntcat]

19. not til after I posted it

I mean posted it EVERYWHERE :p But I forwarded this 2nd article you shared too, TY

(not that the update or the age of the article changes what he said about Atheists though, the ones the least to blame for the worst stuff in the world.)

[OKIsItJustMe]

21. OK, so let’s look at this for a moment…

What did he actually say anyway?
http://www.catholicculture.org/news/headlines/index.cfm?storyid=3882

Pope links atheism, environmental destruction, urges world leaders to act

August 27, 2009

In his Wednesday general audience, Pope Benedict, linking atheism and secularism with environmental destruction, summarized his new encyclical’s teaching on man’s duties towards the environment:

Is it not true that inconsiderate use of creation begins where God is marginalized or also where his existence is denied? If the human creature's relationship with the Creator weakens, matter is reduced to egoistic possession, man becomes the "final authority," and the objective of existence is reduced to a feverish race to possess the most possible.

Creation, matter structured in an intelligent manner by God, is entrusted to man's responsibility, who is able to interpret and refashion it actively, without regarding himself as the absolute owner. Man is called to exercise responsible government to protect it, to obtain benefits and cultivate it, finding the necessary resources for a dignified existence for all. With the help of nature itself and with the commitment of its own work and creativity, humanity is able to assume the grave duty to hand over to the new generations an earth which, in turn, the latter will be able to inhabit worthily and cultivate further.

The Pontiff urged world leaders “to give the appropriate indications to their own citizens to address in an effective manner the ways of utilizing the environment that turn out to be harmful. The economic and social costs stemming from the use of shared environmental resources, recognized in a transparent way, must be assumed by those who use them, and not by other populations or by future generations.”

For an example of what he may have been talking about, consider Eastern and Western Europe. Eastern Europe (under Soviet control) was an ecological disaster compared to Western Europe.


http://storico.radiovaticana.org/en1/storico/2009-08/312113_pope_benedict_calls_the_world_to_assume_responsiblity_for_environment.html

[muriel_volestrangler]

22. For an example of why he was talking rubbish, consider the USA and Western Europe

far more Christianity in the USA, and it's the USA that has more responsibility for global warming.

[OKIsItJustMe]

26. Really?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Spain">73% of Spaniards are Roman Catholic.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_France#Statistics">81% of the French identify themselves as Roman Catholic.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Italy">87.8% of Italians are Roman Catholic.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_the_United_States#Christianity">76% of Americans are Christians.

[muriel_volestrangler]

27. Yeah, really - 52% of people in EU countries think there is a God

(which includes Muslims and some other religions, as well as Christianity).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Europe#Eurobarometer_poll_2005

Your links show that while they may call themselves Roman Catholic, many of them don't actually believe in God; saying they're Catholic is a family thing, not about belief. The Eurobarometer poll says (as I presume you already know, if you read your links) 59% in Spain believe in God, 34% of French, and 74% of Italians; and 38% of Britons, and 47% of Germans, from the link I give.

The equivalent question in the US produces figures of 76%, 82%, and 70% (perhaps more, because 'non-personal God' isn't included in that last figure).

And religion matters much more to Americans:

U.S. Stands Alone In Its Embrace of Religion Among Wealthy Nations

Religion is much more important to Americans than to people living in other wealthy nations. Six-in-ten (59%) people in the U.S. say religion plays a very important role in their lives. This is roughly twice the percentage of self-avowed religious people in Canada (30%), and an even higher proportion when compared with Japan and Western Europe. Americans’ views are closer to people in developing nations than to the publics of developed nations.
...
Secularism is particularly prevalent throughout Europe. Even in heavily Catholic Italy fewer than three-in-ten (27%) people say religion is very important personally, a lack of intensity in belief that is consistent with opinion in other Western European nations. Attitudes are comparable in former Soviet bloc countries. In the Czech Republic, fully 71% say religion has little or no importance in their lives — more than any nation surveyed — while barely one-in-ten (11%) say it is very important. And in Poland, the birthplace of the Pope and where the Catholic Church played a pivotal role during the communist era, just 36% say religion is very important.

http://pewglobal.org/2002/12/19/among-wealthy-nations/

[OKIsItJustMe]

30. “Nominal” religion

(Your survey is almost 10 years old.)

There are nominally religious people in all countries.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhism_by_country
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity_by_country
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_by_country
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judaism_by_country

What criteria shall we use to measure whether a person is truly religious or not? (For me, if they call themselves a Christian or a Muslim or a Jew or… I will call them that as well.) The Pew Forum uses the same test:http://religions.pewforum.org/reports


The United States is somewhat different from other countries, in that our Constitution made no mention of religion except in a negative sense. (e.g. “no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States.” “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion,”) Other countries established “state religions.” (e.g. The Church of England)


However that may be, I believe that what The Pope was saying in essence is that ecological abuse comes from the belief that there is no higher truth, and that the needs of other people are less important than our own.

[muriel_volestrangler]

33. If you want a more recent global survey - April 2011:

"How important, if at all, is your or your religion in your life?"
Important:
US 85%
Italy 74%
GB 52%
Germany 44%
Spain 44%
France 41%

http://www.ipsos-mori.com/Assets/Docs/News/ipsos-global-advisor-views-on-globalisation-and-faith.pdf p.24

"What, if any, is your faith or religion even if you are not currently practising?" (p.41)
US 65% Christianity; 18% no religion at all
Italy 77% % 15%
GB 53% & 37%
Germany 50% & 38%
Spain 67% & 21%
France 45% & 35%

All the large western European countries think religion is less important than the US. The average for 'even if you're not practising' works out less too, and the average for 'no religion' well above.

[OKIsItJustMe]

34. The thing is… I don’t believe those numbers

As I am wont to say, “Statistically speaking, ‘the people I know’ make a lousy sample.”

Yet, to judge by “the people I know,” 85% seems awfully high!


According to a recent Gallup Poll:
http://www.gallup.com/poll/141044/americans-church-attendance-inches-2010.aspx



Hmmm… 85% say God is important, yet 45% seldom (if ever) attend worship services.

[pscot]

25. It's a fair cop, your papishness

I done it.

[CJvR]

28. Well...

...I suspect it is true to some extent. Without the scientist, who tend to be less religious, we would still be living in an agrarian society where we could look forward to 40 years of backbreaking labor under the rule of God's annointed and the stinking clergy before we die.

[GliderGuider]

29. That pope is evidence that God has one vicious sense of humour nt

[OKIsItJustMe]

32. I suspect—as is so often the case with political leaders—we are presented with a mere caricature

For example, in this case, if you look at what he was really saying, I think you’ll find his philosophy not so different from your own.

… With the help of nature itself and with the commitment of its own work and creativity, humanity is able to assume the grave duty to hand over to the new generations an earth which, in turn, the latter will be able to inhabit worthily and cultivate further.

[trof]

31. Well then, I apologize.

I didn't mean to do it.
:-(


:rofl: