Is This Our Future? (Chevy Volt review)

[n2doc]

By JOE NOCERA
Published: June 25, 2011

THE moment I realized that driving the new Chevrolet Volt was fundamentally a new experience was not when I first turned it on and went around the block. Yes, it was whisper-quiet, powered by its 16 kilowatt-hour, 400-pound battery, but it still felt like a “normal” automobile. And it wasn’t when I drove the 100 or so miles from Manhattan to Southampton, N.Y., either. Although the battery’s range is only about 40 miles, the car kept going even after the battery was drained; it just switched to its gasoline engine, in a transition so seamless I barely noticed it. It wasn’t even when I arrived in Southampton that evening and plugged a special cord into an electrical outlet in the garage, to recharge the battery overnight.

No, what made the experience truly different — and what got me thinking about the Volt’s potential to change the way we think about gas consumption — was what happened after that.

...
Here’s what really got me, though: on the dashboard, alongside the gauge that measures the battery life, the Volt has another gauge that calculates the vehicle’s miles per gallon. During the two-hour drive to Southampton, I used two gallons of gas, a quarter of the tank. Thus, when I drove into the driveway, it read 50 miles per gallon.

The next day, after the overnight charge, I didn’t use any gas. After driving around 30 miles in the morning, I recharged it for a few hours while I puttered around the house. (It takes 10 hours to fully recharge, unless you buy a special 240-volt recharging unit.) That gave the battery 10 miles, more than enough to get me where I needed to go that evening on battery power alone. Before I knew it, my miles per gallon for that tankful of gas had hit 80. By the next day it had topped 100. I soon found myself obsessed with increasing my miles per gallon — and avoiding having to buy more gas. Whenever I got home from an errand, I would recharge it, even for a few hours, just to grab a few more miles of range. I was actually in control of how much gas I consumed, and it was a powerful feeling. By the time I gave the car back to General Motors, I had driven 300 miles, without using another drop of gas beyond the original two gallons. I’m not what you’d call a Sierra Club kind of guy, but I have to tell you: I was kind of proud of myself.

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http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/26/opinion/sunday/26car.html

[Buzz Clik]

1. math is cool.

[Dreamer Tatum]

2. Wonder how much fossil fuel was used in making the electricity that guy thinks is free. nt

[physioex]

3. Got a point.....

However it is still more efficient than the gasoline only version. And we do need to work on bringing more renewables like wind and solar.

[NYC_SKP]

4. Potentially, none.

Some utilities are 90% fossil, others much less.

There are pockets here and there that provide 100% renewable energy.

Traditional cars run on, wait for it, 100% fossil fuel.

That's the beauty of this.

EVs will become greener and greener as we run out of fossil fuels and as we green the grid.

:toast:

[Webster Green]

6. In addition, a lot of the charging will be done at night.

That decreases the demand on the grid during peak daytime hours.

[Dreamer Tatum]

8. I did hear that electricity used at night comes from hummus, not other forms of fuel.

:eyes:

[Webster Green]

9. Where did I say that?

There is an advantage to easing the burden on the grid.

Jeez. :wtf:

[diane in sf]

35. Utilities are pushing EVs and PHEVs because they have a problem with surplus

power at night--you can't just turn off giant power plants when demand is low. Even when your power is generated by coal, the electric vehicle produces less CO2.

[Nederland]

37. Not correct

Yes, most charging will be done at night. That means that there will be an increase in demand at night. It will not do anything for daytime demand.

[kristopher]

38. You read post 6 inaccurately, I believe.

When it was said that charging at night "decreases the demand on the grid during peak daytime hour", it seems to me that the meaning was doing it at night doesn't add to daytime peak demand as would doing it in the day. It was perhaps a bit in-artfully worded.

[Dreamer Tatum]

7. This article will impress me when all costs are considered.

Until then, the Volt is a toy for rich assholes.

(Notice how he went from NYC to Southampton, for example.)

[NYC_SKP]

10. I drove one, hated it. A really smart car would be an electric simple light thing.

And the Volt, not surprisingly, was a heavy oversized over-adorned pig of a car, to me.

[wtmusic]

34. That's what I've heard, and what I expected.

Have you driven a Leaf? I've never met someone who's driven them both - interested in how they compare.

My biggest disappointment with the Leaf is the aerodynamics. The pickup is great - it blows any other car I've owned away. But at highway speeds you can practically see the miles ticking down, and that has at least something to do with a very mediocre .28 drag coefficient.

[NYC_SKP]

36. Friend at work has a Leaf, I've driven in it. She's still too dazzled to let me drive.

Didn't take it on the highway, just around the block.

It reminds me of my 2007 Prius in terms of form factor= simple, light, practical. I don't care for the styling.

She cracks me up, getting texts from her car that it's all charged up or some other message.

I like the IDEA of the Volt, all electric with on-board ICE back-up, but it's range is a piddling 379 (est.).

PS, I know someone with a Tesla and they gave me the premium test ride, it's freaking off-the-hook quick!

[wtmusic]

42. Agree, the styling is goofy.

I drove a prototype last year as part of an marketing evaluation. It was all very secretive - restricted access to the parking lot at Dodger Stadium. One aspect of the evaluation is they had you stand on a circle around the car, at four different points, while they recorded your verbal impressions.

I told them I'm a designer and started to rattle off the reasons why the lines of the car don't make sense...they had to stop me. :)

As I've said in this forum before, I'm very, very happy with it. It's just a very useful car that's cheap to drive.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

30. Brazil. Nearly all our electricity comes courtesy of Isaac Newton. -nt

[Javaman]

41. Plus the 15 to 25 barrels of oil needed to manufacture a new car.

Ford, however, is doing something very clever.

My gf bought a Ford Fiesta, all of the plastic in the car is soy based.

[wtmusic]

43. The foam in the seat cusions is soy-based.

http://media.ford.com/article_display.cfm?article_id=32832

[Javaman]

44. Actually, on a recent episode of Nova...

they made the claim that all the plastic is soy based.

[MineralMan]

5. Wait 'til he sees his electric bill.

Energy ain't free, my friend. You're going to pay for it, one way or another.

[IDemo]

12. The energy usage per mile of EV's and HEV's vs ICE has been well documented

Nobody is claiming electric vehicles or hybrids are free energy machines, but the cost per mile is substantially less with electricity.

http://avt.inel.gov/pdf/fsev/costs.pdf

http://www.transportation.anl.gov/pdfs/TA/339.pdf

[earthside]

11. So the Volt is a hybrid ...

... that costs around $38,000 to $41,000.

I can buy a Prius now for half the cost and in 2014 the Prius plug-in is expected to cost about as much as a standard Prius.

Bottom line is that the Volt is most assuredly not our future. Indeed, it is depressing that Detroit cannot make a high tech hybrid that can compete with the Prius that has been available in the U.S. since 2001.

As cool as the electric car concept is, the whole Volt ploy is an example of why the jury is still out on the ultimate revival of the U.S. auto industry.

[Ready4Change]

31. I agree with you there.

The Volt has failed to differentiate itself from the Prius in any meaningful way. I was at first psyched about it because Chevy said it was a pure electric, with an on board gasoline powered generator. To my mind that description is the kind of car we need as we transition from petrochemicals to multi-sourced EVs.

However, turns out that the production Volt is more like the Prius, in that there is a direct mechanical linkage between the IC engine and the drive train, along with all the associated mechanical complexities and, imo, inefficiencies I think come along with that design.

Until I heard that I was considering buying a Volt, thinking that I could stomach paying that extra money, so long as I knew I was buying what I think is the right kind of car for the times. But, it turns out it is so much more similar to the Prius that, in my mind, they are directly comparable. In that light, the Volt is far too expensive for what it offers.

[ElboRuum]

13. Forward progress derided on DU due to 'insufficiency'

In other news, water wet, wind blows, fire hot.

Seriously, is no one in this thread happy to see that we are at least seriously making steps into the future, putting aside the 'not nearly fast enough to satisfy me' mentality?

[MineralMan]

14. I'm an urban guy. I live in a major city.

I drive maybe 2000 miles per year, and almost never more than 20 miles round trip. When someone comes up with an inexpensive, small, electric plug-in car, then I'm in the market. Until then, not. I'll keep right on driving my 20 year old Volvo. I've seen nothing that would entice me to switch for the limited driving I do.

[ElboRuum]

15. Fine, But really...

Whenever something shows the slightest hint of changing (for better, for worse, or whatever) I see this pullback here that I find mystifying. Whereas the extreme right wing fears change of any sort, we over here on the left resist it with the opposite rationale, that it 'isn't nearly enough' as if to say, 'we shall not move a step forward for want of a grand leap'. It is too bizarre for words.

[MineralMan]

16. I think that the problem is that some of these innovations

are marketed to only the wealthy, with not much being done for the rest of us. Of what use is a $40-50,000 care to me? There's not a chance in the world that I'd buy such a thing. Indeed, most cars are used primarily for short trips. Where is the plug-in urban electric car? Why develop the expensive one first to sell to people who are buying it primarily as a status symbol.

I'd do the same as I do now. Drive the little car around town and rent a car for trips. I've been doing that for three decades. My total automobile costs are very, very low. I'm not unlike most of the almost 300,000 people who live here in St. Paul. We don't need Chevy Volts. They're worse than useless to us. However, many of us would consider a plug-in urban vehicle that suited our driving habits. Where is it?

I mean, my 91 Volvo can't last forever, after all.

[Kolesar]

17. Of what use is a Volvo to me?

The cheapest Volvo costs $24000, according to their website.
The last car I bought was $15,300 including tax and title, so it probably cost $14,000.
The Volvo has huge horsepower and torque, but that's not worth the extra $10,000.

People buy cars that are way past utilitarian. That is why people are buying the Chevy Volt.

[MineralMan]

18. I paid $2000 for my Volvo, five years ago.

I don't buy new cars, as a rule. I could sell it today for $1500.

My Volvo doesn't have "huge" horsepower. It has a 2.3 liter, 4-cylinder, normally-aspirated, fuel-injected engine. It's got almost 200,000 miles on it, and has no mechanical issues at all. It should last me another 10 years, at least, since I drive it only about 2000 miles per year. In a pinch, I would get in it this afternoon and head for a cross-country trip, if necessary.

Show me a small, plug-in electric car I can buy for about $10,000, and I'm there. Show me a $50,000 hybrid, and I keep the Volvo.

Some people buy cars for status or other reasons. Many people, like myself, buy them to go to the grocery store or the hardware store to pick up what can't be carried.

[txlibdem]

26. You must have one of the unusually reliable Volvos

A friend's grandparents own one, it's in the shop more than it's on the road. And the Volvo shop charges them an arm and a leg.

[MineralMan]

28. The 91s were very good. As long as you stay away from

the turbo models, they're very reliable and inexpensive to maintain. Turbo is a terrible idea in a used car. Truly.

Any maintenance or repairs, I do myself, using parts I buy online. I never darken the door of the Volvo dealership.

It's all in picking the particular vehicle and model, really.

[Ready4Change]

33. Nissan Leaf is more what you are looking for.

Small, all electric, could handle 20 mile round trips no problem.

A new Leaf is far too expensive for your price range. You'll need to give them a decade for the used ones to approach your price expectations. At that point you may need to factor in a battery pack replacement. Jury is out on that. Prius packs are lasting longer than initial estimates. And the estimates weren't saying when the batteries would be totally dead, just when they wouldn't hold enough charge to satisfy most drivers. You are not most drivers. Half of the range from a 60 mile range car would be 30 miles, again, fine for you.

Until then your used Volvo could do you fine. Nothing wrong with that. You'll likely pay your original purchase price several times over with scattered as-needed repairs over the decade. But that would still be less than what you'd pay if you bought a new Leaf, Volt or Prius.

[ElboRuum]

20. It is as close as I've seen to an economical rule as might exist.

Products are expensive when new. As the market for them develops, prices typically come down. If someone came out with a hovercar tomorrow that generates power by converting smiles into energy and awesome, it'd cost a cool buhmillion (plus tax). Within five years, they'd cost something a bit more reasonable, like a fuhmillion.

[Yo_Mama]

22. I've been wondering exactly that!

Also I really don't understand why the Volt is so expensive. They say it will come down, but it is still in initial production so it seems unlikely that the average dude or dudette can buy one for five years at least.

[bahrbearian]

19. +1 Yer dealing with children here

[customerserviceguy]

21. I guess these would be workable

if you always had a fixed place you could park it at home or at work for recharges. I have to take pot luck in visitor parking at our condo, the same at work. Both are uncovered parking, which might not be compatible with a recharging station that might get vandalized in at least the neighborhood setting.

[elifino]

23. Info on battery cycle life

I am not sure about the batteries used in electric/hybrid cars at this time, however my non-automotive experience has show a marked decrease in battery capacity with increase cycle life. The thing that worries me is that the practice of short cycling as opposed to full usable discharge to full charge may shorten the life of a very expensive battery.

See links of interest

http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries

http://www.samsungsdi.com/xev/electric-car-automobile-battery.jsp

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/fuel-efficiency/vehicles/lithium-ion-battery-car2.htm

[kristopher]

24. If you don't know anything about them, then why are you making unfounded claims?

Wouldn't it be more intelligent to actually confirm or disprove your rumor yourself instead of posting it?

[elifino]

25. I do not claim be an expert but

My experience with batteries starts with diesel electric submarine propulsion systems,Electric lift truck, battery powered driver-less factory transport systems. I do have experience with both ni-cad and lithium-ion batteries, both lose capacity with the increase cycles.
Read the linked sites and decide for yourself.

[kristopher]

27. Actually you are...

claiming to be an expert, that is.

Then you make a nonspecific claim that there is some problem related to batteries that might or might not apply to electric drive autos.

Smells like FUD to me.

[txlibdem]

29. Yes and No

NiCad does suffer from "battery memory" where if you recharge it before it's 50% depleted, the next time you will only get that much out of the battery.

LiIon does not get "battery memory" at all. Especially not the new designs that are in the Volt, Nissan Leaf, Mitsubishi EV, Coda EV, Ford Focus EV, etc.

LiIon does not like to be fully discharged down to zero. It will lose "lifetime" if you do so too often. Chevy is being exceptionally careful in the design of the Volt. That is why the Volt has a 16kWh battery pack but the control software only allows you to use 8kWh (aka 50%) of it before the gas burner engine kicks in. Their tests showed that a normal commuter will get up to 40 miles of all-electric use before the gas engine kicks in, 200 watt hours per mile.

Nissan says that its Leaf uses 225 watt hours per mile and its 24kWh battery pack will never be 100% depleted either, the control software will tell the car to slow down if you skirt the limit of the pack.

How you drive will determine your actual range, and most new EV drivers take a couple of months to "get the hang of it" until they can calculate in their mind how to drive a little saner, quit the jack rabbit starts, etc.

[happyslug]

32. There is a question as to NiCad Batteries having "Battery Memory"

The only time such "Battery Memory" was reported was in a NASA Satellite I believe in the 1960s. NiCad have always claim such "Battery Memory" is possible with NiCad do to that one incident, but no other example of such "Battery Memory" has been reported DIRECTLY, i.e. people blame it for a much of the decline in battery usage in NiCad after years of service, but no actual case where such "Battery Memory" has been shown to be the only cause.

On the other hand, any battery, like ANY STORAGE DEVICE, will run down and sooner or later stop working. This decline is a slow decline in the ability of the Battery to hold a charge. In Lead Acid Batteries is is noticeable after about 4-5 years (when such batteries should be replaced in most cars). In other uses of Batteries, the device gets replaced or is damaged beyond repair, way before this problem starts to kick in.

On the other hand, such deterioration of any battery will sooner or later kick in. In most cases, the device gets replaced before the Battery has to be replaced, but occasionally such batteries break down early and has to be replaced. Cell phones and Cameras, that depend on rechargeable Batteries (increasingly these are Lithium not NiCad) still carry guarantees for the product that excludes the Battery for this very reason.

For more details on the "memory effect" on NiCad batteries see the following articles,
both says such memory effect occurs, but in most uses, will almost never occur:
http://www.powhouse.com/products02.htm
http://users.frii.com/dlc/battery.htm

Even Wikipedia in its paper on lithoium Ion Batteries point out "Over time, the cell's capacity diminishes".

Charging forms deposits inside the electrolyte that inhibit ion transport. Over time, the cell's capacity diminishes. The increase in internal resistance reduces the cell's ability to deliver current. This problem is more pronounced in high-current applications. The decrease means that older batteries do not charge as much as new ones (charging time required decreases proportionally).
High charge levels and elevated temperatures (whether from charging or ambient air) hasten capacity loss.A Standard (Cobalt) Li-ion cell that is full most of the time at 25 °C (77 °F) irreversibly loses approximately 20% capacity per year. Poor ventilation may increase temperatures, further shortening battery life. Loss rates vary by temperature: 6% loss at 0 °C (32 °F), 20% at 25 °C (77 °F), and 35% at 40 °C (104 °F). When stored at 40%–60% charge level, the capacity loss is reduced to 2%, 4%, and 15%, respectively. In contrast, the calendar life of LiFePO4 cells is not affected by being kept at a high state of charge.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium_ion_battery#cite_note-PHEV1-2

For more on Aging of Lithium Batteries see:
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries

As I stated above, most devices using Lithium Batteries tend to be replaced while before the Batteries have to be, but the decline in the Batteries is well known.

[kristopher]

39. These battery discussions do not cover the batteries being used in the Volt and Leaf.

They have new chemistries that are just being rolled out, with their own specific characteristics designed for use in EVs.

[txlibdem]

40. Yes, but

Nissan has stated publicly that the Leaf's battery pack will most likely have 80% of its original charge capacity after 10 years. Unless you abuse the battery pack by running it to empty too often or driving like a lead foot, then it will likely have 70% of its original charge capacity after 10 years.

Which is nice for me because I could get a used Leaf for my wife: she drives 40 miles max in a day. And if it ever becomes a problem, battery pack prices are going down already and will be significantly cheaper in 10 years. Putting a new battery pack into a 10 yr old Leaf will make it work like it's a brand new EV again (miles per charge wise).