GM Announces Plans For "New Generation" Of Hybrid Vehicles - Detroit News

[hatrack]

General Motors Corp., still lagging Toyota Motor Corp. in the image-shaping hybrid race, on Tuesday announced plans for a next generation of gas-electric hybrid vehicles that the automaker thinks will sell in big numbers around the globe.

Set to debut in 2010, GM's next hybrid system will be an upgrade to the current hybrid powertrain, which is available in only three GM models in the United States. The company's new hybrids will deliver three times more power using lithium-ion batteries instead of the current nickel-metal hydride batteries. In addition to delivering a more powerful boost during acceleration, the new hybrid systems also will increase fuel economy and provide brief electric-only power.

GM plans to add the new technology to a wide range of cars and trucks around the world, GM chief executive Rick Wagoner said Tuesday at the Geneva auto show.

Japan-based Hitachi Limited will get the first supply contract for the lithium-ion batteries, which are smaller and more powerful than nickel-metal hydride batteries now used in gas-electric hybrids. Wagoner said he thinks GM can sell well over 100,000 vehicles a year once the new system is rolled out.

EDIT

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080305/AUTO04/803050395

[DainBramaged]

1. HOORAY Detroit strikes the Japanese snake back

:thumbsup:

[phantom power]

3. with lith-ion batteries made in Japan?

yeah, they sure are showing those Japanese a thing or two.
:eyes:

[DainBramaged]

4. Well, Exide outsourced their li-ion battery production to Japan too

But that's ok, we'll still have a wider range of hybrids than those pesky Japanese. But no one here will give GM credit, God forbid they try to do the right thing.:eyes:

[hogwyld]

6. Those "pesky" Japanese

Are relegating Detroit to the dustbin of history.

[hogwyld]

5. Japanese Snake??? WTF

I can understand you wanting to protect your turf, but if it weren't for the Japanese, we would all be driving crappier cars than they now make. Oh, and wasn't it the Japanese that initiated the use of galvanized steel? How about Fuel efficiency? Quality? Reliability second to none? We quit making decent cars about 50 years ago, and think GM, Ford, and Chrysler are racing to the bottom.

[DainBramaged]

7. Just stop. If you haven't bought an American car in over a decade

you are clueless. Don't think you will ever convince me otherwise they just do a better job of brainwashing the public.

[lectrobyte]

9. Branewashed? Those IIHS tests must be brainwashed, too...

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080226/BUSINESS01/802260317/1002/BUSINESS


WASHINGTON -- The 2009 Nissan Murano SUV topped nine other SUVs in new crash tests run by the insurance industry, with models from Chrysler LLC and General Motors Corp.'s Hummer brand trailing the pack.

[DainBramaged]

18. So, do you own an American car from this decade??

Why bother, it's all about you and buying Japanese, not American. Toyota make the Pee Us, we're trying to make a lot more than an overpriced security blanket for those of you who buy one just to say "oh I am Green, look at my Pee Us in the driveway", just like thousands of Rethugs.

[kestrel91316]

26. A hybrid Urban Assault Vehicle is not any sort of improvement IMHO.

I challenge Detroit to make a Prius-equivalent for the same price or less. And the quality better match. No windows that quit working six months after purchase, and no transmission failure after 6 years of light use, like my LAST (and I mean very last) American car.

[DainBramaged]

28. When was your last American car, 1980???

:rofl:
None of you would even test drive an American car, so go to sleep tonight knowing you shove a stake in the heart of a Union member.

UNIONS are the reason there are weekends.

[kestrel91316]

29. It was 1982. I prefer a car I can keep for 20 years, like I have my made-in America Honda Accord.

And my next will probably be a made-in-America (CA, actually) Toyota Corolla.

[DainBramaged]

35. I call bullshit, you haven't owned an AMERICAN car in 26 years

You know nothing of what you speak. You have no practical comparison, you might as well be driving a fucking Model T

[kestrel91316]

37. Well, I have had enough owners of American cars bitch to me about them

over the last few years to be convinced they are still mostly POS's.

Tell me, do Honda and Toyota have union employees at their plants in the US? Because that's the only real issue here AFAIAC.

BTW, you'll NEVER convince me to buy an American car by being nasty, so give it up.

[DainBramaged]

39. Feh

I don't give a shit any longer. You folks are anti-union, Anti-American industry. Keep giving your money to the imports. It's less aggravation for us. Besides, we sell new cars, not 20 year old hulks.

[benEzra]

44. My '97 GM G-body has over 160,000 miles, still looks almost new,

the leather interior is in great shape, paint looks good, everything works, it easily pulls down 30+ mpg on the Interstate, and my repair costs over the past year have totaled about $40. And on boost, it will still keep up with most anything short of a Hemi Charger, and sounds damn good doing it.

Mobil 1, Aerospace 303, Boeshield, Autotap, and a good bit of TLC don't hurt, but it's been a damn good car.

My wife's '00 Ford is well over 100K miles now also, with no major problems.

Personally, as a former Toyota owner (we've had two different Camrys in our driveway at various times), I'd pick a CTS over a Lexus, or a (new) Malibu over a Camry, anyday. GM's build quality has been excellent for years; until recently their main fault was that many of their vehicles were boring (the old Malibu, for example), but they now have some really good designs in production and in the pipeline. I like Volvos too (particularly the S40T5), but my next car will most likely be another GM product.

[lectrobyte]

47. Only if you still count Diamler-Chrysler products as American cars.

Thanks for asking.

[Nihil]

13. Err ... no ...

> HOORAY Detroit strikes the Japanese snake back

Hardly. What the GM PR division said was

>> General Motors Corp., ... on Tuesday announced plans for ...
>> ... that the automaker thinks will sell in big numbers around
>> the globe.

>> Set to debut in 2010, ...

>> GM plans to add the new technology to a wide range of cars and
>> trucks around the world

... and we know that GM *never* back out of their announcements of plans ...

Still, they got one bit right for sure ...
>> still lagging Toyota Motor Corp.

:P

[DainBramaged]

17. And Toyota is suing to stop the new CAFE standards

Yea Toyota, oh what a feeling. Fucking two-faced pricks, they'll sell you that overpriced Pee us but work to interfere with the CAFE standards

[Nihil]

19. Yep ... they've learned how the locals behave and followed suit ...

... or perhaps you think that GM, Ford, et al have been at the forefront
of *increasing* the CAFE standards rather than *holding them back* for
decades?

:rofl:

Ford & co learned how to operate in Europe (they produce sensible-sized
cars for sale over there) and now it looks like Toyota have learned how
to operate in the US (produce guzzlers and bribe politicians).

Personally I find it disappointing that Toyota sank to that level rather
than dragging the locals up to theirs but I suppose business is business ...
:shrug:

[jakefrep]

22. It's not Pee-us, it's Pious

Per BBC TopGear: "The preferred transport of champagne socialists everywhere...."

[msongs]

2. top TEN most economical cars are ALL foreign - & GM killed the electric car

a few years ago. granted that car had some drawbacks, but had GM brought it to market, economy of scale would have lowered the price and GM would have cornered that market, selling who knows how many of those cars.

top management of GM needs to go IMO.

Msongs

[OKIsItJustMe]

8. Fuel Economy?

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/feg2000.htm
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/FEG2008.pdf

[eppur_se_muova]

10. Where're the Diesel hybrids ?? nt

[DainBramaged]

16. Ask the mighty Japanese that, you can't buy a diesel car or truck from them

[tinrobot]

31. VW just showed one...

A Golf hybrid - 69mpg.

http://www.autobloggreen.com/2008/02/28/geneva-08-preview-volkswagen-golf-tdi-hybrid-concept/

[DainBramaged]

43. Weeeeeeeeeeeeeee fahrfegneugen returns

With that vaunted VW reliability.:eyes:

In NJ, Volkswagen has a higher percentage of lemon law claims than any other maker.

[losthills]

11. The question needs to be asked--

and needs to be answered....

"Why are American car manufacturers so far behind the Goddam curve?"

[CRF450]

12. Because they focused on what was selling.

Namely, SUV's and trucks. They put hardly any effort into building a decent car because they wouldn't sell, but now their getting around to making some good cars.

[DainBramaged]

15. You don't have a clue what the curve is

[tinrobot]

23. Wherever it is...

Toyota seems to be ahead of it...

[DainBramaged]

27. Then why do they produce as many gas guzzlers as GM

Look it up. They are as guilty as the rest. They aren't going full line hybrid till 2020, But they make the Pee Us, so they are pure.:sarcasm:

[tinrobot]

30. True, they do produce gas guzzlers.

So do all the manufacturers. Sadly, people still think they need gas guzzlers, so those behemoths get produced.

On the flip side, Toyota also produces some of the world's most efficient cars. They sell a lot of them, too. When another manufacturer produces a better and more efficient car, then that company will gain market share over Toyota. I hope that happens, and I hope the company that makes those super-efficient cars is an American company.

[DainBramaged]

40. Recycle your alkaline batteries, use paper or cloth bags, don't buy bottled water

Doing those things will contribute more to the enviornment than the feel good Pee Us extra gas mileage you get and lining the pockets of the japanese. virtually all of you in this thread think that buying a hybrid excuses you from your responsibilities.

Keep thinking that way. Toyota did a good job.

[tinrobot]

49. I do all those things... and more... and yes, I drive a hybrid...

...that was made in Kansas City.

Again with the assumptions.

[IronLionZion]

33. Why does anyone produce anything? Because someone is buying it. nt

[DainBramaged]

14. These threads always bring out the American industry haters

Keep surrendering jobs to the Japanese, Koreans, and Chinese, and keep buying their shit, but when the day comes that you've exhausted your job opportunities and become an office cleaner or WalMart greeter, drive home in your import and wonder what happened to the manufacturing might that once was America.

These countries won't give us the opportunity to build or import our cars and trucks without huge tariffs and unfair restrictions, but that's OK will all of the apologists here.

Fuck it, like I said, why give GM or Ford or Chrysler any credit, you're all happy in your foreign made cars, why not take a shot at the American industry and Unions, because as I've stated here before DU is far from pro-Union, the participation in the Labor forum speaks volumes for how DU members really feel.

Keep driving campers. America needs you. None of you own an American car anyway so your points are moot. I make my living thanks to GM, so I have a vested interested in their success. Unlike any of you.

:sarcasm:

[Nihil]

20. Putting my pointy stick away for a minute ...

> I make my living thanks to GM, so I have a vested interested
> in their success.

Oh, we all know that ... there is no way that anyone who *wasn't*
being paid by GM would come out with the stuff that you do.

I can see why you are worried, why you are so defensive and why you
are aggressive towards any criticism of your wage-packet - most people
will have the same feelings to a greater or lesser extent - but most
of the stick that you get isn't directed at you: it is aimed at the
wasteful isolationist attitudes that GM *management* show every day
and which have become a caricature of American behaviour around the world.

Sorry that it becomes too personal at times.

[DainBramaged]

21. The "stuff" I come out with is in defense of my company and Union

Tough shit if you can't appreciate that. Most DU members are consumers of imported crap. They do NOTHING to improve the standard of living here or keep jobs in America.

Sorry it isn't more personal. Like I said, I have a vested interested in their (GM) success, and I am not paid for propaganda. Sorry you just don't get it.

[tinrobot]

25. We'd all love GM to be successful

It would be nice to keep jobs and profits here.

But I'm not going to show blind allegiance when it comes to buying a car that both looks good and offers great fuel economy. If some other company can produce a better car, then GM doesn't make the sale. I hope they do come out with the Volt, because that's a car I could see myself buying.

[jakefrep]

24. Exactly!

I'm glad to know I'm not the only one who finds the extreme animosity towards the Detroit 3 (and American business in general) troubling. Their demise would be a VERY bad thing.

If you can't find a decent GM, Ford, or Chrysler product, it's probably because you haven't bothered to look.

on edit: Toyota can go fuck themselves - they're just as complicit as any other carmaker in global warming issues.

[GliderGuider]

32. The problem is, the Big Three have poisoned the well of customer acceptance

Decades of obviously shoddy workmanship and a "take it or leave it" attitude left many consumers with a very deep-seated animosity towards the companies. How do you regain that trust? You can't beat the trust back into consumers by accusing them of being unpatriotic or anti-union. The Big Three lost their trust, and that trust needs to be rebuilt one brick at a time, from the ground up.

Ask any marriage counselor how long it takes to rebuild trust after you realize your partner has been screwing around. If I were to have an affair, I can't expect to regain my wife's trust by bullying her after she busts me. That's how the Big Three should see their current predicament, and the tactic on display in this thread is simple bullying. Screw that, we'll buy German or Japanese, or Korean or even a Tata Nano if that's all you think of us. Make good cars, but more than that, acknowledge why you lost our trust in the first place. Try some environmental leadership instead of dragging your heels all the time. Demonstrate that you're a worthy partner, and we'll sleep with you again. Bullying us won't cut it.

[Name removed]

36. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[tinrobot]

38. Calling other people fools for not liking your company...

...is not a good way to get people to actually like your company.

[DainBramaged]

42. You wouldn't buy an American car anyway, why even participate?

The new Malibu or Saturn, what do you care. Ford Edge, so what. Chrysler Nitro, who cares, just keep buying that transplanted crap and put another American out of work.


Do any of you think for one second the parts for your beloved transplants are even made here? ASSEMBLED with North American content and MADE of North American content are two distinct categories of reality, and the Japanese and Koreans love the word assemble.

[tinrobot]

48. Actually, I own a 2007 Ford Escape Hybrid.

Silver, with the standard package and an aftermarket moonroof. Built in Kansas City, I believe. It's a good car and I like it a lot, except the stereo has no way of adding an iPod port.

You know, you just insulted someone who actually owns an American car. In fact, you make a lot of very rash assumptions about the people here. If you really want people to look at GM products, then I'd suggest you summon up a little politeness and tolerance. It goes a long way.

[DainBramaged]

51. Sure, and I own a battery powered UPS truck myself

The people here have no intention of looking at American cars, and coddling them isn't going to mean squat. It's the same in every pro-GM thread, the American car haters come out and Japanese cars are their tin god.

No thanks.

[tinrobot]

53. Believe what you want.

You seem to be very good at that.

[GliderGuider]

54. "coddling them isn't going to mean squat"

I thought you were here to try and improve the fortunes of your union and your employer. If so, you're being distinctly unhelpful to your own cause -- in fact you're one of the better Toyota salesmen on the board. Of course if you're just here to vent and vituperate, well, have fun kicking the sand.

[selador]

55. corvette

speaking of american cars, i gotta say the new corvette's are PHENOMENAL cars.

i test rode one, read up on it a lot, and i think it is fantastic, and one of the best examples of performance for a modest price you can get.

[CRF450]

56. And they can get pretty good gas milage on the HWY for a powerful car.

They can easily get around 30mpg on the interstates with a 6 speed auto/manual, which is pretty awsome for a 6.2 436hp v8. They dont even use DOD or any of that variable valve timing stuff. My 99 6 speed Trans Am (which has the same LS1 used in the 97-04 vettes) has reached 31mpg going 74mph on the interstate, and it regularly averages around 22-23mpg.

[benEzra]

46. GM has done most of that already, IMO.

They realized they had a build-quality problem, worked very hard on it, and fixed it several years ago (build quality has been top-notch for years now). Then they realized they had a vanilla design problem, and are fixing that too.

I'd buy another GM car in a heartbeat, FWIW. Min '97 currently has 163,680 miles on it, pulls down better mileage than the 4-cylinder '93 Camry I drove for a while, and is holding up very well indeed.

[IronLionZion]

34. Simple questions: What car do you drive? Where was final assembly for it?

What is the gas mileage? And where did the parts come from?

[DainBramaged]

41. 10 year old Chevy Blazer, 126000 miles, made in Atlanta 16-24 MPG

unless I put my foot in it. I can't afford a new car, especially a $30,000 hybrid. And I BUY American made parts for my American car when I upgrade it or do maintenance.

PS I drive everything we make, so in essence I don't need to buy a new car. But I would by a gas guzzling Trailblazer SS 403 HP SUV if I had the $36000 for it. And I'd buy an extra set of tires to replace the original 20" ones after I burned tnem to the ground doing burnouts in a Toyota dealer parking lot. And then I'd only put $7 a gallon Sunoco 99 octane racing fuel in it. They only get 18 MPG on the highway if driven like a hearse.

[Name removed]

45. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[kristopher]

50. Wow what hostility. My 2 cents

The Japanese had a built in advantage when they had to rebuild their country after WWII, with newer infrastructure and newer technology being applied to product development their cars had a qualitative advantage over US autos when OPEC took control of the oil market and hit us with the oil shocks of the 70s. Their biggest advantage was that they had gone with a front wheel drive platform for most of their cars. Their domestic market is based on very expensive energy prices so their cars were already designed to meet the needs created by the spike in energy prices.
All of those factors came together and allowed them entry into and acceptance by the US market.

The big three (correctly) saw that the energy bottleneck was going to be short lived and they made no effort to retool to meet that particular consumer demand. They had a couple of aborted attempts at front wheel drive in larger cars, then started introducing front wheel drive compacts in the early and mid80s. Those early cars weren't too bad as quality goes, but the stigma of poor quality related to outdated production methods persisted.

Meanwhile, Japan, exploited the price advantage of their lower wage labor force and made ever larger inroads into the US market. By the time that price advantage was eventually levelized, they were a permanent part of the worldwide automotive landscape with extremely positive brand appeal and loyalty. Honda, in particular, committed to quality over price. While their Detroit counterparts had by now made the investment in automated manufacturing required to bring their assembly process up to a level with Japan, Honda focused on supplier quality. Industry standard for most components set 1 in 1000 as an acceptable defect rate. Since an automobile has more than 10000 parts, that meant to Honda engineers that purchasing programs based on that standard ensured that statistically, every car built had 10 defects no matter how rigorous the quality control in assembly. Honda rejected that as unacceptable and sought to get their supplier defect rate to 0. Of course, they never achieved it, but it isn't unusual for them to reach 1/50,000.

BTW, I dont find the extra quality or the brand image to be worth the extra cost in the Japanese cars. I suffer with the defects figuring it is worth about $3000 to me to do so.

Watch for significant advances in rapid recharge battery technology in the next 2 years.
The biggest hurdle IMO to consumer acceptance of battery technology is being able to fuel up quickly. As long as it requires more than 10 minutes to to pump 300 miles worth of electricity consumers are not going to be swayed. And yes, I'm familiar with the challenges that presents.

[CRF450]

52. Yup, and because of those hurdles...

We are gonna be stuck driving gas/diesle powered vehicles for a long time. I'd much rather see ethonal prevail from seing articles on switchgrass as a viable alternative to corn.