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TNDemo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-10-08 03:39 PM
Original message
So if you have some extra money
and have about 14-15 years until retirement, would it be better spent paying off the house or savings/investment? There was a time when I would have worked on paying off the house but in today's market I am not so sure anymore. What is the better bet?
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Oceansaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-10-08 03:42 PM
Response to Original message
1. join the G.O.O.D. Club....
Get Out Of Debt....i'd pay off the mortgage....
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Xenotime Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 01:05 PM
Response to Reply #1
18. You do that you lose all of your tax advantages.
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deadmessengers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-10-08 03:43 PM
Response to Original message
2. depends on your tax bracket, interest rate, and current rate of savings
In most cases, saving more makes more sense than paying off your house. The exceptions would be if you have a really high interest rate and/or you're already maxing out your tax-favored savings (like an IRA, 401k, SEP, or Roth).
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Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-10-08 04:09 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. Wrong. You need to figure what savings will pay
and these days even CDs are paying in the 2% range, plus consider inflation, which we all know is really in the double digit range. Putting money into a 2% account is losing money. The only caveat is that you do need at least a 6 month's savings cushion in case your job goes belly up and you have a tough time finding another.

Paying off a mortgage is like giving yourself that much interest every year that you've knocked off the mortgage.

In addition, the sooner you can get out of debt before you hit that early involuntary corporate retirement age of 55 the better off you'll be in the long run. Ageism laws are not enforced and most employers look for ways to rid their rolls of employees who are starting to make their health insurance rates go up. They have actuarial tables to tell them the break even point between inexperienced young workers and experienced older workers and you'd better believe they'll use them on you.

Debt is poison, no more so than in an economy going sour. Getting out from under it is the best gift you can give yourself.



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deadmessengers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-10-08 04:28 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. Not wrong.
Any financial adviser would tell you that putting your retirement savings in low-interest CDs that far out (14 years) from retirement is lunacy. There's something to be said for putting some into CDs post-retirement, but not before. Broad-spectrum, well-diversified mutual funds such as an index fund are the way to go that far out, transitioning gradually to lower-risk (and lower-reward) savings vehicles the closer you get to retirement. Also, I want to point out that the original poster did not say how old they were, just when they were planning to retire.

Also, when was the last time you saw a CD as an option on a 401k? Some IRAs might offer that as an option, but the 401k is still king for most folks saving for retirement.

Finally, debt is not universally a bad thing. Debt incurred with a high likelihood of an offsetting reward (borrowing to finance a college education *in a real-world marketable field* for example) is generally considered "good" debt. Also, in an inflationary economy such as the one we're in, debt can be a GOOD thing - because you're borrowing expensive money, and getting to pay it back with cheap money. You just have to have the ability to pay it back if the money stays expensive.

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we can do it Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-10-08 05:15 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. Any Financial Advisor Who Makes His Living Selling You That Shit?
Oh yeah and max out your cards then get a second mortgage while your at it. Its working pretty well for all those people with their homes being foreclosed

:eyes:
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Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-10-08 05:18 PM
Response to Reply #6
11. Financial advisors generally have clients
with more than just a few bucks left over every month.

My advice was for the ordinary, not the well off. People with ordinary means have savings accounts, money markets, and CDs. They don't have Roth IRAs and most don't even have 401-K plans.

Please understand that we have deep class divides in this country and that my advice was for people who don't have the means to hire financial planners.
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sendero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-10-08 05:19 PM
Response to Reply #6
12. People alwatys think..
... that whatever was true 20 or 30 or 50 years ago will be true forever.

Anyone putting a dime in this market will live to regret it, I don't care how long their time horizon is.

Debt is not a universally bad thing, except in a deflationary depression.
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Common Sense Party Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-12-08 11:19 AM
Response to Reply #12
16. I'm putting several dimes in this market, and I know I won't regret it.
Every 10 years there are people coming along saying that the sky is falling, and the next Great Depression is here.

They've all been wrong.

The people with regrets will be those who haven't saved and invested. You don't really think Social Security is going to take care of you, do you?
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AnneD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-11-08 01:56 PM
Response to Reply #6
15. Sorry to disagree with you....
any time you have debt, you not only pay the principal, but the interest. That interest is money out of your pocket ON TOP of the principal.

If you pay off your house, take that money you would have paid on the mortgage and invest. You can get investments that give you more than your the rate on your loan.

The main thing about debt is that it introduces risk. And now (or close to your retirement) is not good time to have risk. If you are laid off, at least you have a roof over your head. If worst came to worst, you could sell it and down size.

I have gotten caught several time where I had too much risk, and I paid for it. The only good side that you mentioned is that I am paying my debt off with cheaper dollars. If I had a mortgage, I'd be paying it off.

I can only see debt in the case of housing and that is it. My daughter is working her way through college so we have kept that down to a minimum. I am really not in favour of that debt either. We have been on a cash basis for 5 years now and I can't say enough about it. We own our cars and we trade up each time we get a 'new' to us model. The money we save in interest goes nicely into our bank account instead of the bank.

Lost of folks circle around you like sharks if they think you have money. They'll flatter your intellect and ego by telling you how smart you are to invest-but one downturn, and you lose years of interest on your money. I'd rather own outright than take added risk.

I invest- I really do! But not before I am in the GOOD club and can afford the risk. I think you have been brain washed or seduced by math.

DEBT=RISK
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Art_from_Ark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-18-08 09:37 PM
Response to Reply #15
19. Speaking of risk,
"You can get investments that give you more than your the rate on your loan."
That sounds pretty risky to me. If there actually are risk-free investments that actually do pay more than a mortgage rate, I'd like to hear about them.
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we can do it Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-10-08 05:12 PM
Response to Reply #4
9. I Fullly Agree
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DJ13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-10-08 03:45 PM
Response to Original message
3. If you deduct your mortgage interest on your taxes
..put it into a retirement account so you dont lose that deduction.
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we can do it Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-10-08 05:12 PM
Response to Reply #3
8. duh - keep repeating the bankers mantra
you only get about 30 cents max on the dollar (the money you spend on interest vs your little tax deduction)- interest is bad, debt is bad there is no good debt- you end up paying 3 times as much for something you use cash for
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mitchtv Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-10-08 04:11 PM
Response to Original message
5. We paid the mortgage
It worked for us.
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DemReadingDU Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-10-08 04:47 PM
Response to Original message
7. We paid off our mortgage too

We like being debt-free, except normal monthly bills.
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DCKit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-10-08 05:31 PM
Response to Original message
13. Energy efficiency improvements.
Especially when it comes to staying warm and alive in the northern winter.

If you bought your house before 2001, you're already ahead. The money you borrowed to buy the house is only worth 59% as much and inflation is eating the interest.

In relation to the current mess, the scam wasn't in offering sub-prime mortgages, it was selling the paper to greedy and ignorant investors. Anyone who got a low-interest, fixed rate mortgage before the market went completely nuts - and is still employed - should be doing pretty well. Except for the threat of doubling and tripling energy costs.

I went to closing with a friend in 1997 and the mortgage broker said "Don't ever, EVER, pay an extra penny on this mortgage." Within three years the equivalent apartment was renting for nearly 50% more than the mortgage, utilities and taxes combined.

Quoting an earlier post of my own (from my journal):

"Conservation is your best defense - seal the cracks and plug the holes. Unless you're burning fuel inside the house, there should be enough O2 moving through the walls and various cracks to prevent an unacceptable buildup of CO2. I've always called them "door dogs", but the bead/bean filled socks that you put across the bottom of exterior doors keep a lot of draft out and weather stripping is a bargain, though time consuming to install correctly.

As much as I've always detested the "shrink to fit" window and sliding glass door kits, single pane glass has an R value of one - barely suitable for keeping the air in, let alone the heat. Heat energy transfers from hot to cold and, the greater the temperature difference, the faster it "flows". If glass is R-1, then, aside from preventing any air movement you may have due to leaky windows, a plastic sheeted window provides no better than R-2. If visible light is passing through, then so is infra-red radiation - the heat you're paying so dearly for.

J.C. Whitney sells a radiant barrier insulation (for firewall, floor and header liners) that I've always thought would work well if incorporated into interior shutters or drapes. Being foil faced, it should reflect as much as 80% of the heat back into your home, even with cloth stitched or glued to the face. Infra-red radiation doesn't "see" the fabric, just the foil behind it.

There are also a couple of different kinds of insulating window treatments on the market, though (to date) I haven't found anyone who claimed to be selling insulating drapes. There are insulating honeycomb shades on all the major discount window blind sites. I've found American Blind and Wallpaper Factory to have the best prices and service.

Regardless, the goal is to prevent easy radiant transfer through the window treatment and, secondly, to prevent convection from air "washing" down over the window as it chills, then across the floor. The first depends on the material you use, the latter, how well it fits to prevent air movement over the glass. They should be tightly fitted to prevent air from moving at the top, sides and bottom of the window.

South facing windows are also a great source of winter heat, but you could lose as much or more than you gain if you aren't around to close the shades/drapes/blinds/shutters. A temperature controlled solar air heater is also an option if you're handy and don't mind the look of a huge black glass-faced box hanging off the side of your house. A couple of companies are also making window boxes.

You can close off any rooms you're not using - including those with plumbing - as long as you don't allow them to drop below freezing at any time. However, if the rooms you're using have walls adjoining the unheated spaces, you will be losing heat to those rooms. Additionally, pipe insulation can be used to conserve as much heat as possible in both the hot and cold water pipes. Neoprene is best for this, but it is pricey.

Of additional concern is the impact of closing vents in those rooms you choose not to heat (or to heat less). A forced air furnace and duct system are designed to heat the whole house, and messing around with the system flow might actually end up degrading the efficiency. It may be better just to lower the thermostat to whatever you can live with, wear sweats at home, heat the bathroom with a small, SAFE electric heater and sleep with an electric blanket - the only type of electric heating that makes any sense.

Additionally, if your system is older, check for leaks in the ductwork. If you've got leaks, buy some REAL duct tape - aluminum tape, not the silver colored, plastic tape - and seal the leaks. Change your filters regularly and, if you can, clean the fans and oil the motors.

Programmable electronic thermostats are also widely available and prices should have dropped to a reasonable point by now. They're BS for cooling since it can take a full week to dehumidify a house, carpeting and furniture, but work well with heating.

Hot air rises so, aside from windows and doors, most heat goes up through the ceiling, and that makes attic insulation the most important of all. If you've got open trusses in the attic, you can buy bales of cellulose insulation to dump and spread. Wear a dust mask.

Above all, don't wait until fall to purchase your supplies for any of these projects. There's going to be a hell of a demand this year."

Take it for what it's worth to you.
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CrispyQ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-10-08 05:54 PM
Response to Original message
14. Another one who paid the mortgage off.
Best thing we ever did. It has provided us with options we wouldn't have had otherwise.
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TNDemo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-12-08 05:52 PM
Response to Original message
17. One other thing to throw into the mix.
If you don't plan on your current house being where you grow old, does that change the equation?
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