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Are the Neocons actually Ayn Rand's "looters"?

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benburch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-06-04 02:18 PM
Original message
Are the Neocons actually Ayn Rand's "looters"?
Edited on Wed Oct-06-04 02:23 PM by benburch
Those of you who have suffered through reading Ayn Rand's magnum opus "Atlas Shrugged" know what a looter is - A government or government assisted company, who loots the general treasury for personal gain while taxing both the average person and non-favored companies to death.

Many of you are aware that the neocons claim to be informed by Ayn Rand's philosophy.

But the question I have, when I look at Cheney and Haliburton and the whole corrupt mess we have right now is; Did they take the wrong lesson away from Ayn Rand? Instead of choosing to be "The Engines Of The World" have they decided that the easy path to personal power is to become the very model of a Randian looter?

Discussion welcome.
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MikeG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-06-04 02:23 PM
Response to Original message
1. The aristocracy of pull.
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Vincardog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-06-04 02:23 PM
Response to Original message
2. Looters yes they read 1984 and took it as an instruction manual
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Maple Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-06-04 02:26 PM
Response to Original message
3. Yes, they appear to be
both second-raters and looters.

They are also big on 1984 and a Handmaid's Tale
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ixion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-06-04 02:28 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. yeah, Handmaid's Tale
is uncomfortably close to where we are now, and surely indicative of where we are heading.

1984 is the playbook.

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ixion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-06-04 02:27 PM
Response to Original message
4. absolutely
Edited on Wed Oct-06-04 02:34 PM by ixion
This is why when people dog her as an architect of the conservative movement, I laugh. True, she was okay with greed. However, the reasoning behind that is the key. She believed in passion, committment and excellence, responsibility and accountability, none of which are exhibited by the neocons or the GOP.

Rand would most probably have fit into the Libertarian category, IMO, and would not think much of the GOP or the neocons.

She was defintely anti-authoritarian / anti-facist, despite the conservative nature of objectivism.

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knowbody0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-06-04 02:29 PM
Response to Original message
6. philosophy-prophecy
don't forget the carlyle group,heroic distributors of WMD's. it's madness - the bush cheney connections. babylon towers. misinformation.disposable humans off to the battlefields, only bombing "slums" where do we go from here? is it too late?
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glitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-06-04 02:33 PM
Response to Original message
7. Absolutely! Good catch.
Although personally not a fan of Rand's simplistic world view.
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The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-06-04 02:49 PM
Response to Original message
8. Looters. Hmm..
I'm sorry, but I've been posting my opinion about this for the last day or so and have received very little response. My carefully crafted rant wasn't even good enough for the archives. It sits in limbo land, begging for someone to show it some proper respect by plagerising it. <places back of hand on forehead>

Here see for yourself:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=2452478


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=984030#984252
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Robert Oak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-07-04 02:52 PM
Response to Original message
9. Strauss, University of Chicago more
http://www.thefourreasons.org/leostrauss.htm

http://www.counterpunch.org/boyle08022003.html

http://www.lewrockwell.com/woods/woods28.html

http://www.straightdope.com/columns/031212.html

Ayn Rand made me shudder, Strauss (and I've read about
1.5 hours worth) made me tremble like a Stanley Kubrick movie
had suddenly become my reality.

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ismnotwasm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-07-04 03:19 PM
Response to Original message
10. I read as much of that book as I could stand
Mostly because I wanted to know who John Gault (sp ?) was. I think part of what leads to widespread cooperate corruption is basic herd mentality. I've often thought that those at the top of companies like Haliburton almost have to have some psychological difficulties, because of the cutthroat nature of advancement. And we know what direction shit rolls. So I don't see the possibility of a consistent philosophy, even if someone, say cheney, starts out with one. He would just do what it takes to get to the top, and take those who agree or can be manipulated. The rest stay behind, or try to hang on out of self preservation
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The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-07-04 03:54 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. Why has it been kept such a secret that Cheney is a Libertarian?
I don't think this is common knowledge and I don't believe moderate Republicans would knowingly vote for him under that premise. It would explain his reckless behavior.
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TO Kid Donating Member (565 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-07-04 03:56 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. If Cheney's a libertarian
Then he sure as hell doesn't have much influence on the admin.
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The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-07-04 04:00 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. L/libertarians believe in a free market world.
Edited on Thu Oct-07-04 04:24 PM by The Backlash Cometh
He was described as a Western style L/libertarian by one of the pundits on Tuesday night (and I think it was a pundit on his side), That kind of L/libertarian has an anarchistic viewpoint when it comes to property rights. He doesn't want guv'mint to own anything, but he wants to be in the best position to take from guv'mint as it steadily gets dismantled.
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ismnotwasm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-07-04 04:13 PM
Response to Reply #12
15. I wasn't aware that he was
But given their policies it makes a certain sense. Let's see, winging it here, bankrupt Social Security, undo most of the New Deal, deregulate EVERYTHING that is corporate run, let the "free" market take over...Gut environmental policy, and use the loosest of laws for environmental protection, with the idea that cooperate owned forests (and maybe for the future, national parks),in the interest of profit would no doubt be wonderful stewards, protecting future profit. Run roughshod over other countries,--treat them as though they were the US because they obviously don't know what's good for them. Kill the labor unions,let the free market decide wages, benefits. Encourage private free market competition for schools, place them in direct competition with public-funded schools. Man, now I have to go look all this stuff up. I'm scaring myself
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The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-07-04 04:23 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. A pundit referred to him as a Western style L/libertarian.
I contend that he would never have been elected if this fact were well-known. People just don't trust L/libertarians.
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RPM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-07-04 03:41 PM
Response to Original message
11. Funny....
I was thinking the same thing the other day.
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Robert Oak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-07-04 05:56 PM
Response to Original message
17. Cheney is a Necon
See my previous posts on where the Neocon philosophy is coming from.

Different from Rand or Liberatians.
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The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-07-04 06:55 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. Liberations: alcoholic toasts to Liberace.
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MS68 Donating Member (99 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-09-04 11:14 AM
Response to Original message
19. Ayn Rand's philosophy also based on truth and honesty
I also believe that Ayn Rand's view of the world was too simplistic. Her society doesn't take into account that we have a whole portion of our society that we enslaved for hundreds of years and only recently allowed to vote. In an ideal capitalist society, her philosphy would work great.

However, I did like the fact that she believed in being truthful to yourself and to everyone else. You don't suffer through a crappy marriage because that's what society expects. You get out and make the most of your life. You don't martyr yourself because that doesn't benefit anyone.

I believe she was also an atheist. She would be appalled by the supposed religious "beliefs" of the current administration. Or at least the fact they are trying to impose their beliefs on the citizens of this country and claim to make decisions for this country based on religious beliefs.
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Paleocon Donating Member (422 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-04 06:25 AM
Response to Original message
20. I read through the entire thread...
I think Ayn Rand would be appalled by our present situation.

Dick Cheney is most definately not a Libertarian.

John Galt's speech was one of the toughest things I've ever tried to read.

Alan Greenspan used to hang out with Ayn Rand and actually wrote a defense of the gold standard, I can't understand why he pursues the fiscal policies that he does...

I found "The Fountainhead" to be much easier to read.
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