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Homer12 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-29-03 12:20 PM
Original message
Why do Males become Conservatives so Quickly?

Why does this happen?

Things in my life and what I imagined it to be since I was young have not come to fruitration, but yet I can only mostly blame myself for much of this.

Why do males between the ages of 25-30 become reactionary conservatives, seemingly overnight?

It makes no sense to me: Is it becuase WE lefties and liberals have been smeared so bad that the "Bleeding Heart" label seems to be a sign of weakness for our Testosterone filled brains?
Is it reaction against how we truned out, wanting to blame others for our own mistakes?

Honestly, this is one thing I don't understand why it is so easy for some people to do a near 180 degree turn on what they supposedly beleived.

Yet, even with this new identity as a "conservatives" they seem to take, they certanily don't live-up to the ethics and morals of the conservatvie philiosiphy (marjunia use, heavy drinknig, etc...).

Any insight is appreciated.

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fertilizeonarbusto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-29-03 12:23 PM
Response to Original message
1. Line form "Moonstruck"
Edited on Tue Jul-29-03 12:26 PM by fertilizeonarbusto
"Because they fear death." I see conservatism as nothing but fear-inspired and the biggest fear we have is that of death. Women tend to have more of an understanding of their continuity through future generations and are less prone to this. Also, women are raised to be less self-centered, so that their personal well-being and existence is not as central as is the general good. Anyway, my musings, take them for what they are worth.
And, oh, because they need to grow the fuck up and realize it's not all about them.
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LuminousX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-29-03 12:25 PM
Response to Original message
2. Laziness...
nt
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NewJerseyDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-29-03 12:26 PM
Response to Original message
3. Taxes
I think that once some men start having to pay taxes they become more conservative and turn anti-"big" government and anti-tax. It seems like more men don't like taxes than women.
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FloridaPat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-29-03 12:55 PM
Response to Reply #3
20. NO way! Women don;'t like taxes either. We just make less
then men, so we pay less taxes. When you talk to women about making extra money, they talk about pin-money. When you talk to men, they expect to make car payments. It's a mind set that I have to constantly bring up when talks with women turn to money.
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Caution Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-29-03 12:26 PM
Response to Original message
4. simple...fear of inadequacy
(im male for the record) look at the things they talk about:

1.) affirmative action - fear of losing ones job to a minority (who are mostly liberal)
2.) feminism - fear of losing power over women.
3.) homosexuality - fear of being "turned" gay.

the root of all this is of course ignorance plain and simple...it's funny because the very thing they trumpet all the time is the solution to two of the above "problems"

work hard, be diligent and your efforts will be rewarded.

as for number three...well some of them would do well to realize they actually are gay and it is nothing to be afraid of or ashamed of, or they should stop being a bigot, realize that if they aren't gay no one can "make" them gay and get on with their lives.
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BarbariansAtTheGate Donating Member (14 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-07-03 05:07 PM
Response to Reply #4
49. Yeah but.....
Edited on Thu Aug-07-03 05:09 PM by BarbariansAtTheGate
Aren't you just being a little ignorant yourself? All men talk about stuff like this exactly the same way?
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USMC0861 Donating Member (7 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-02-03 10:35 PM
Response to Reply #4
83. Honorable
Edited on Tue Sep-02-03 10:35 PM by USMC0861
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

YEP thats me alright.

But

A few men are. Used, downtrodden, and taken advantage of by few, respected responsible and honorable to most. And could give a rats @$$ about affirmative action, feminism, and homosexuality, because putting food on the table for his kids kind of pushes all those issues out the door.
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Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-29-03 12:27 PM
Response to Original message
5. MEN WITH SMALL PENISES BECOME REPUBLCIANS
Edited on Tue Jul-29-03 12:28 PM by Skittles
YES INDEED. THEY NEED GUNS AND WAR TO FEEL ADEQUATE AND THAT'S WHAT REPUBLICANS STAND FOR.
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diesle55 Donating Member (18 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-30-03 12:53 PM
Response to Reply #5
32. .
Is this sort of response normally tollerated by the mods. here?


Diesle
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Ellen Forradalom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-03-03 03:22 AM
Response to Reply #32
35. Depends on context.
Try the Alert button if you have a problem with it.
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Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-03-03 12:44 AM
Response to Reply #32
84. too bad,k Diesle
it would appear they tolerate me quite well. NA NA NA NA NA. :7
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FunkmeisterJohn Donating Member (15 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-07-03 08:04 PM
Response to Reply #5
51. Mmmmm...
Edited on Thu Aug-07-03 08:04 PM by FunkmeisterJohn
Perhaps a bit simplistic. There are quite a few intelligent, sincere, conservative males out there. I know a good many of them. They might not be right about everything, but they aren't all warmongers, and a good many see just how dangerous our foreign policy has become.
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Yaoi_Huntress_Earth Donating Member (185 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-10-03 06:32 PM
Response to Reply #51
59. Ironicly
My father was a pro-choice and pro-gay conservative republican who doesn't think Regan is the second coming of Christ) so I know what you mean, FunkmeisterJohn. A lot of it has to do with who you were exposed to. If the only conservatives you were exposed to were Ann Coulter and Pat Robertson, then you'd have a more unfavorable idea about them.
As for the recruitment of young, white males, I think part of it is that straight, clean-cut WASP males aren't the ones who only count as Humans any more and they're scared. People have seen what racism, hate, and intollerance has done and want to make life better. I remember there was a counter-protest for the war at my college with the college Rebuplicans (the kind that think Regan is the coolest thing on wheels) and the only ones there were White males with shaved, stubblely hair. No offence to people with that kind of do, but it look like an Ayran rally to me.
Love,
Yaoi Huntress Earth
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LiveandLetLove Donating Member (4 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-22-03 01:43 PM
Response to Reply #59
71. WOW Yaoi...
Do I detect racism on your part? Do you hate white males? or what? That seems to be the freud behind your remarks. Why does there seem to be this hatred against white males coming from our side. It's not good. It will only kill us and divide us. Not everything is a black, brown, yellow and white issue. Geesh. You need to become colored blind.

That's all. I'm done.
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SyracuseDemocrat Donating Member (696 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-10-03 03:18 PM
Response to Reply #5
58. hehe
:P
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-12-03 11:14 AM
Response to Reply #5
61. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
AmandaRuth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-29-03 12:28 PM
Response to Original message
6. my opinion,
hate radio, dealth of the unions, and the gun issue. I think we could get them back by tying their $12.00 an hour job to the thugs.
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MattNC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-29-03 12:28 PM
Response to Original message
7. good question
and it's one I've thought about quite often - especially since I'm a 21-year-old white male.

At least with a lot of the conservative guys I know, they feel they're "losing" their country whether it's through affirmative action, strong-willed women (that's why so many of them hate Hillary), and the increase in immigration from Latinos. It's commonly referred to as the "good ol' boy" mentality.

Furthermore, I think a lot of guys in this age group tend to respect action a lot more than insight with the problems we face. They'd rather just "kill all the brown people" as opposed to learning why terrorists hate the U.S.

Hope that little bit helps.
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oldshoe Donating Member (127 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-03-03 04:16 AM
Response to Reply #7
36. If true...
it represents a total failure of moral and factual education, ie both church and schools are failing in showing the complexity of life. But, hey, let's face it, how can these two institutions compete with the entertainment industries and their simplistic "solve all your problems with a punch or gun" message? The PC gaming industry revels in anti-women, anti-outsider, pro-violence. Much of pop culture is a perfect growth medium for facism.



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IDUDOYOU Donating Member (203 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-29-03 12:29 PM
Response to Original message
8. To be honest
I see a lot of liberals as just being plain pussies.
Many men do not want to be associated with pussies(well, in one sense of the word)
When I tell men I am a Democrat, they get this look and say something involving "those liberals". When I mention I am Democrat because of the "union" they get this enlightened look on their face.
How many people can call Democrats who are steelworkers, Teamsters, etc... pussies?

How many posters on this site talk about blue-collar union issues, which is really the modern historic base of the Democratic part?
Very few, because I bet most people on this site are upper-middle class white collar workers(or were) and were not in unions.
Now, I know there are exceptions to every statement, so please no
I AM IN A UNION.
By the way, I am in a union.

When is the last time somebody posted a thread about a blue-collar union strike?
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Pillowbiter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-29-03 01:44 PM
Response to Reply #8
24. I am not in a union
and I do agree with you, that unions are the ultimate form of american democracy. Capitalism directed by the people, restrained by their collective consciences from doing things that would harm America and it's people and land. It really pisses me off when workers willingly let companies take away their benefits, totally ignorant of early union workers who fought, and sometimes died, to get them those rights that they take for granted.

Unfortunately in the ephemeral IT industry unions are nigh near impossible to form. Even during the tech boom, workers were given alot of benefits, but not a choice in how they wanted them to be effected. Yeah, so I may be white collar, but we are all in this together, pussy or not.

PB
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SharonAnn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-29-03 12:31 PM
Response to Original message
9. Testosterone Poisoning and/or Not Enough Sex
Edited on Tue Jul-29-03 12:31 PM by SharonAnn
Years of exposure to testosterone finally cause their body and brain chemistry to go awry and they are no longer capable of thinking logically.

Also, not enough sex means not enough exposure to good hormones and good body chemistry (endorphins) so they become mean and hateful.

Just my theory, but I think there's some basis for it.
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IDUDOYOU Donating Member (203 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-29-03 12:34 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. SharonAnn, very sexist statement
That's like me saying that woman's menstrual cycle messes up their body's chemistry and their brain so they should not have any type of role that is important in society except childbirth and rearing.
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FunkmeisterJohn Donating Member (15 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-07-03 08:09 PM
Response to Reply #11
52. Actually...
I have begun to think that human hormones, with the help of neurotransmitters and a neural organ designed for individual survival and not much more, have rendered people completely unable to think logically past the age of puberty.

Therefore, I propose that we should have children build us computers which would then make decisions for us.

Any questions?
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no_labels_please Donating Member (9 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-03 07:09 PM
Response to Reply #9
44. Sharon Ann
We want men to treat us as equals but we go around saying things like that?

Harumph.

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Dukejr Donating Member (34 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-16-03 03:32 PM
Response to Reply #9
69. Turn that around
That is interesting. Now, if you said something similar about women, replacing "testosterone" with "estrogen", I wonder what would be said about the charactor of the person whose espouses such an opinion?
Just my theory.
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GainesT1958 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-29-03 12:32 PM
Response to Original message
10. It takes less thinking to be a right-winger...
Their "philosophy"--and the ways they spread it--appeal to two things male in combination: testosterone level, and the Cerebellum (the "Lizard Brain"). YOUR lifestyle, YOUR money, YOUR wife/girlfriend; see, HATE, defend against "those OTHERS" who would HARM or CHANGE any of that. Easy to digest, with NO real thought or reasoning process involved. That's how Rush got to be so succesful; he trashed all that was "foreign" to that mentality, and assumed a "we" stance to relate to all the selfish, worried, lizard brain using guys out there.

When one thinks about it, how many guys with ANY INTELLECTUAL DEPTH really AGREE with--Rush? And how many women listen to him, period?

This dilema has been with us for a while now. On the campaign trail in 1952, Adlai Stevenson was told by a woman after a speech, "Gov. Stevenson, you shall surely have the vote of every thinking man and woman in America." To which Stevenson replied, "Why, thank you, madam...but I need a MAJORITY!" :eyes:

B-)
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stopthegop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-29-03 12:36 PM
Response to Reply #10
12.  how many guys with ANY INTELLECTUAL DEPTH
well..since most of us define intellectual depth as 'thinking like I do'...not many
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IDUDOYOU Donating Member (203 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-29-03 12:37 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. Elitist attitude, kiss of death
"Liberals" need to stop talking like they are elitists.
Nobody likes being talked down to or made to feel inferior.
Just because you went to college does not mean that you know more than the auto mechanic at the local service station who dropped out of high school.
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Homer12 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-29-03 12:47 PM
Response to Reply #13
17. Elite, Who's elite?


If a person already has bad self-esteem or is at "war with reality", any factual corrections Liberals do or say will be looked as and viewed as eliteism.

Just as all people don't like being talked down to or made ot feel inferior by a condesing assholes; Many people don't like being corrected when they are wrong or ignorant as well.
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leftyandproud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-29-03 03:10 PM
Response to Reply #17
27. elitism..
Edited on Tue Jul-29-03 03:11 PM by leftyandproud
I think is better defined by those who believe they have the proper vision of the world--they know better than joe six pack, and if only they could get government to impose their beliefs on others...things would be better. Now, they may be right or wrong, but a lot of guys just don't like that attitude..it seems condescending...holier than thou. And BTW, I know BOTH sides do this...The right tends to impose morality...while we tend to impose stricter economic policy on people...progressive taxation, regulation, anti discrimination stuff, etc etc...which is probably more noticable in their lives.
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LiveandLetLove Donating Member (4 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-22-03 01:48 PM
Response to Reply #17
72. Your wrong...
Your first sentence is not true in my opinion. We libs do come off as elitist; however, what cracks me up are the non-college graduates that were to lazy to finish school, subsequently "dropping out". Yet, they are evrywhere pretending to be educated and acting like elitist and rallying people.
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Cassandra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-30-03 09:01 AM
Response to Reply #13
29. Having gone to college may mean you know more...
about some things than people who didn't. It's, unfortunately, not a guarantee that you will manage your life better than someone less educated.
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oldshoe Donating Member (127 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-03-03 04:28 AM
Response to Reply #13
37. Well.....
Actually, the point of going to college IS to learn more about things than other people, although the frat rat crowd, to name one obvius example, does their best to party away their four years, so you may be right after all!

I guess it depends on subject matter. They ought to know more about whatever it is they majored in, and have a broader liberal arts theoretical understanding about how society works. But a few years on a real job is its own social education.

I agree however that an auto mechanic has the full ability to learn whatever he or she wants and applies him/herself towards. Mental ability is widespread, and college is too often a matter of daddy's ability to pay. Anyone with intellectual curiosity finds ways to learn throughout their life, and there are way too many men and women who seem to lack much curiosity at all, they settle all to readily for platitudes.

More power to you for keeping your brain alive!

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FunkmeisterJohn Donating Member (15 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-07-03 08:12 PM
Response to Reply #13
53. Well, actually...
Edited on Thu Aug-07-03 08:14 PM by FunkmeisterJohn
<Deleted>.
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MooPie Donating Member (397 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-29-03 12:42 PM
Response to Original message
14. 
than women because today's "conservative" requires very little compassion and empathy for those less fortunate in society. For whatever reason, it seems to me that women are more perceptive to personal vulnerability in every aspect of existence, and seem to be able to envision "there but for the grace of god go I" much easier than men. Women seem to have a greater sense of fallibility than men, and thus a 180 seems less likely. But who knows?
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IDUDOYOU Donating Member (203 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-29-03 12:47 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. What sexist and elitist attitudes on this post
I am done looking at this post.
The women who have posted have basically said that men suck, that is why they are conservatives.
The elitists on this site believe that only liberals hold the keys to the kingdom, that conservative men are lost, selfish sheep.

People, stop looking at your reflection in the water and believing that you are the greatest thing ever to be created.
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hadrons Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-29-03 12:44 PM
Response to Original message
15. cultural fears .....
Just afraid of change and something different
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Runesong Donating Member (219 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-29-03 12:49 PM
Response to Original message
18. Because most men are emotional cripples.
Their spirits are thoroughly broken. They learn to put on a suit, go to work and be subservient to an arbitrary hierarchy. They daily have to swallow their pride, and spend their lives doing things they'd rather not be doing. They are truely enslaved. They know no emotion but frustration, anger and fear. They hate with a passion, anyone who breaks out of this cycle and not similarly enslaved.
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Homer12 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-29-03 12:59 PM
Response to Reply #18
21. I think that your generalization of "most men" is wrong.
If most men are emotional cripples, what does that make most women?

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stopthegop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-29-03 01:02 PM
Response to Reply #18
22. you realize..I assume...
that what you posted in number 18 is pretty much gibberish...
if it were so, why don't ALL men in our culture become conservatives?
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Runesong Donating Member (219 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-29-03 01:57 PM
Response to Reply #22
25. Where do you live / work?
Edited on Tue Jul-29-03 02:11 PM by Runesong
I have lived all over Massachusetts, a supposedly democratic state and have met about a dozen (straight) guys in my lifetime who are not conservative. At every job I've ever held, I have been the only "liberal guy" in the break room. When my wife has her freinds over, I have to keep my mouth shut around their husbands. In the particular county I live in, the courthouses are jammed with cases of sexual abuse and domestic violence 99% of offenders are male.

Where is this majical wonderland that you live in, where men aren't pigs? I'd move my family there in a heartbeat.
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stopthegop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-29-03 02:49 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. I live in/near Denver
n/t
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MacCovern Donating Member (336 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-03-03 03:07 PM
Response to Reply #25
41. More than just supposedly Democratic...
It appears to me that Massachusetts is staunchly Democrat.

I would think Massachusetts is one of the few automatic electoral votes for the Demo candidate in 2004. Aren't all the Senators and Congressmen from Mass. Democrats?
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FunkmeisterJohn Donating Member (15 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-07-03 08:17 PM
Response to Reply #25
54. Well, for starters,
Try the South. North Carolina, specifically. A majority of men here are still conservative, but there's plenty that aren't. Move to Chapel Hill, and you've found your wonderland, as UNC is a wonderfully open minded school, and the attitude has expanded to the town around it.
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AverageJoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-29-03 12:54 PM
Response to Original message
19. Speaking as a middle aged, white southern liberal male
I have to say that it's been my observation that what passes for conservatism these days (actually, radical right wing paranoia) is very often a symptom of stupidity.

It doesn't take much brain power to be afraid of minorities in America, disdain the rest of the world, hate women and play with guns....
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-15-03 03:58 AM
Response to Reply #19
64. Okay
So why when I posted a thread asking why white males think they need their own party, no DU male could take it any other way then them being bashed.

Republican men want to retain the myth of the superior white male. And the women who are Republicans are married to these guys and/or depend on husbands, fathers or brothers for their security (thus the need for guns).

Women who are Democrats depend on themselves and turn to law and the government for security and men who are Democrats have simply overcome that need to be superior or brawl to solve problems and also depend on law and government for security.

Isn't it kind of that simple? And why is this so offensive to Democratic men?

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JustinCredible Donating Member (112 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-29-03 01:30 PM
Response to Original message
23. My boyfriend is a republican
He flat out told me that he's a republican because 1) he doesn't want to pay taxes (pure selfishness) and 2)he doesn't care enough about anything else to get educated about the other issues.

I don't think it's a male thing. I think it's a lazy, apathetic thing. If it isn't as simple as point A to point B.... many people just don't care.

Sometimes I wonder how I could possibly love him.... but the truth is that political apathy does not always translate to every other kind of apathy.



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oldshoe Donating Member (127 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-03-03 04:34 AM
Response to Reply #23
38. If he's this bad now, wait a few years
Do you really want a guy so into himself? Selfishness and willful ignorance only get worse with age. Laziness and apathy spells out "I don't do housework."

Don't say "I do." until you figure out if you can really live with that year in and year out. Never imagine a leopard will change his spots into something better merely because it would be nice if he would.
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Beer Snob-50 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-27-03 03:26 PM
Response to Reply #23
76. The beauty of talk radio....
is that they paint the solution to all issues as being as simple as point a to point b.
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Festivito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-30-03 04:07 AM
Response to Original message
28. Between WWII and Korean aged soldiers...
lies an interesting group of people who didn't have to go to either war. Indoctrinated by their elders of WW's into believing in country while riding the wave of wars becoming more and more just, perhaps, these now 60 and 70 year-olds are the respected owners of businesses and respected by people willing to sell their souls for the appearant success of money. They do not know war's calamity, but they do know that greedy success can supplant the absence of victory in wars they were not allowed to know.

Thus, they harbor unquestioned love of country, nostalgic for the people they admired: soldiers of our better wars. Thus, they love people who talk in decisive distinctive clear tomes.

It's not stupidity or lazyness, they just don't have anything else to grasp in a culture lacking directives in a sea of diversity with no clear goals. (Idle hands are the devil's workshop.)

Just guessing!
-Fes
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drdigi420 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-30-03 12:43 PM
Response to Original message
30. Bad movies and religion
Stupid movies perpetuate the stereotypical aggressive male characteristic that ignores fact and embraces religion.

Stalone, Wayne, Eastwood, Norris, etc

This media-supported image of masculinity infects lots of males (and females too, that respond to such trite).

I don't think it's a male/female thing, but more of an intellectual laziness thing. Too lazy to question the lies of the government, the clergy, and the media.
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diesle55 Donating Member (18 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-30-03 12:51 PM
Response to Original message
31. .
I believe what you are seeing is a lot of emerging 'fiscal conservative'. Dems have a hard to shake persona of big spending. That is obviously true is some cases and not others. And if you take a look at Bush, he is as big a spender as even the most spend happy liberals out there.

Folks are having a hard time giving right now. Every man (woman) needs to be able to pull their own weight. So, what appears as conservative flakiness is really a strong emergence of fiscal conservatives that are socially liberal. Liberal in that they feel that government has no business legislating morality. And they dont.

Its a stay the hell out of my pockets AND out of my home mentality. That interestingly enough is most closely aligned with Libertarians.

Diesle

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FunkmeisterJohn Donating Member (15 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-07-03 08:21 PM
Response to Reply #31
55. Libertarianism is certainly gaining steam...
Though most of them still vote Republican when it comes down to it, as they are convinced that Democrats will start throwing their money around, and people generally vote with their wallet.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-02-03 09:39 PM
Response to Original message
33. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Homer12 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-03-03 01:32 AM
Response to Original message
34. I've got some Insights; Yet , Testosterone Blame is not enough!!!

Biology is one thing, and it affects male and females both; Just ask the Buchannans's and the Coulters of this world.

If male hormones affect males, estrogen also affects females as well.

Sure, Are biology affects us all, but not to the point where we are complete slaves to IT.

If that was true like a poster made clear, then ALL MALES WOULD BE REACTIONARY CONSERVATIVES, since we have a predominance of the testosterone hormones in our bodies.
Then the question can be asked why women with a predominance of estrogen hormone can be conservative as well????

Could it be social and psychogical as well????


I think it could?

Our universe is a mass of 3 pounds (BRAINS), we filter our existance through this biomechanical tool.

Some of the things I've read are pretty sexist in this discussion.

You have a right to be sexist, but at least back up your opinion, with more than just opinion.






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oldshoe Donating Member (127 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-03-03 04:38 AM
Response to Reply #34
39. Right
Have you read Steven Pinkers, "The Blank Slate", about genes, culture and free will? It is an excellent summary of what science knows, and how whacky the nature vs nuture debate has become. It is a very down-to-earth examination of what it is to be human. A great read.
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DaleFM Donating Member (13 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-03-03 08:05 AM
Response to Reply #39
40. Homer has it right
Not much substance or facts in response to your question.

I was what many would consider to be a liberal 20 years ago. You all would consider me to be a conservative now.(rut oh). But I am actually neither but holding liberal views on some issues and conservative on others.

What happened? I actually do not know. All I have been doing the last 25 years is working and raising my family the best I can hopefully without any interference from others. I abide by what the laws are even when more got placed on me regardless if I agreed with them or not. I had family live on welfare for years and actually lived better than I did. I had many people tell me how to raise my children when they didnt have clue to what my children's needs were.

That isnt all I have seen and experienced but I have limited composition skills with only 1 semester of junior college.LOL

I have only ever voted for a Democrat for President. Regardless that I am person who loves the outdoors and the activities that it involves. ( I am a hunter and have many firearms,muzzleloaders and archery equipent and plan on keeping them)

However I also look at the BIG picture. What is best for ALL Americans. Not the factions who shout the loudest and spin their spin.

So I am sure that some of the emotional replies in this thread are way off base.
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disgruntella Donating Member (983 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-03-03 09:15 PM
Response to Original message
42. my two cents
This is a fuzzy theory of mine, and obviously oversimplified -- but disclaimers aside, I wanted to throw it out there:

IMHO some men have a sense of personal entitlement that women are less likely to have. This is not a biological thing but a socialization thing, i.e. how culture constructs masculinity vs. femininity.

When a man with this sense of personal entitlement hits his mid-20s and realizes that the world isn't living up to his expectations, this man is likely to turn conservative. He isn't getting what he believes he is entitled to, and he looks externally for the causes. And the right wing is ready to hand him a grand assortment of scapegoats (minorities, welfare mothers, immigrants, etc.). He does this instead of adjusting his expecations to the reality around him, which females are more used to doing (again, this is not biological, but social).

I know men who have not followed this path, but I know others who seem to fit the pattern. Then again, in some accounts I have read, it seems some conservatives who have "switched" just got tired of of caring about other people. I think laziness is another big factor.
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no_labels_please Donating Member (9 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-03 07:01 PM
Response to Original message
43. Fear, it's all about fear, babe
I have a theory that all social conservatism is based in fear. Just as racism, xenophobia, and jingoism are based in fear.

And we all know how racist, xenophobic, and jingoistic our favorite neocons can be.

Everytime I talk to anyone who is socially conservative (I make the distinction because I am fiscally conservative, but that is the only way I am conservative, and to me, that is a whole other animal...maybe someone will disagree...) all you have to do is scratch the surface a tiny bit to see the hatefulness pour forth. And hatefulness is almost always born out of fear.

Even the neocons who seem polite on the surface have it there, just bubbling underneath...

They are also almost always control freaks. Think about it. They want to control this, control that, everything is perceived as a threat (think homophobia as an example). But what they don't realize is that the people you can control in this life make up a VERY short list. Let's see:

1. Yourself
2. Your minor children, in a healthy and age-appropriate manner, that is, not complete or extreme control

Yeah, that's about it.

I also have a theory if they'd all just let go (of control, of hate, of fear), they'd be so much happier, and the world would be SUCH a lovely place....

Reject the "bleeding heart liberal" label. I reject all labels. Labels are a convenient way for other people to dismiss your notions. Instead, spread the word of tolerance in both your words and actions.
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no_labels_please Donating Member (9 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-03 07:12 PM
Response to Reply #43
45. By the way, I didn't address the male question at ALL
because I am not so convinced this is a male issue. I know some seriously die-hard neocon women. I also know some really laid-back, tolerant men.

So there you go.
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no_labels_please Donating Member (9 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-03 07:14 PM
Response to Original message
46. By the way, I didn't address the male question at all
because I am not so convinced this is a male issue. I know some seriously die-hard neocon women. I also know some really laid-back, tolerant men.

So there you go.
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whoYaCallinAlib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-05-03 12:50 PM
Response to Original message
47. I think they want to keep more of their own earnings.
It seems to me that all males do not become conservative as they age. It's the more affluent males that become conservative. Low income males tend to stay with the party. I have no facts . . . this is just my opinion as a white middle class female.
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Homer12 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-06-03 04:33 PM
Response to Original message
48. What I've learned so far, since my orginal post.

---Biology is not the sole and only cause of ideological reversal. Sure testosterone spures agressiveness and sexual energy, but... testosterone also affects females as well.

Evidence: I'm male and not a conservative, as well as many thousands of males on DU; while, their are millions of conservative females in this country as well.

---Fear is a big part of the reversal.

Evidence: This is self explanatory the Freepers make this apparent to us all.

----Hating any and all taxes is another.

Evidence: Most people don't like taxes, I am one, yet the people whom turn conservatives that i have known and still know, see this as ONE major reason not to vote socail liberal or democrats in general becuase they view liberals and democrats as big taxers.

----- Scapegoating others for our own failures and lack of personnal responsability.

Evidence: Let history be your guide on this one, conservatives constatnly blame other groups (blacks, libreals, women, gay, etc...) for every and all problems with our country. Willing to blame everyone else except themselves so THEY can act like victims.

This is what I get:

Ideology is an extension of personality on a group scale.

Ideology reversal is do to, in part, a psycological change in a person both from internal and societial pressures and influences on them.

I still don't think it is as simple as my two above reasons, but it's a start.
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FunkmeisterJohn Donating Member (15 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-07-03 08:01 PM
Response to Reply #48
50. Conservatism is cool...
Or, at least, that's the prevailing sentiment of the day. Just as women are trained to promote their physical appearance, men are trained to promote their manliness. Liberalism requires thought and a consideration of abstract ideals (such as mercy and social responsibility) that the muscle-bound social ideal conflicts with.

Therefore, most weak-minded men (esp. white men) are conservatives. Those who can see past social expectations have to make a choice for themselves. Though I know many independent-minded, intelligent conservatives (my roommate among them, who is extraordinarily intelligent and quite thoughtful in his philosophies), they are far outnumbered by the moronic legions that seem to make up the conservative status quo.
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Giverney Donating Member (61 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-08-03 09:00 AM
Response to Reply #50
56. Why many in late 20's turn to CONSERVATIVE
Here's my philosophy, and having been all over the world in travel, I speak from a wide-range of cultural experience:

1. MANY of us have ideas and dreams and fantasies of 'changing the world' when we're young. we want to make a difference, we want to do the 'right' thing and help others, etc.

2. as we get older, and have to start working more and more, we realize that there are ALOT of people out there that mooch of the system.. you have big CEO's who steal all the money, you have 'poor' people who think they 'diserve' to sit on welfare for 20 years living off other's hard work, and you have presidents who dont make a difference, and just get themselves money.

3. AT this point, males realize (around 25-30) that they want a family, wife who loves them, and some kids maybe (majority do anyway). They realize how many scam artists, thieves and ripoffs there are in the world, and their ideas of 'changing the world' slowly deteriorates and becomes just a fantasy. They want to work, earn the money without someone else taking it and giving it to someone else and earn a happy life for their new family.

they turn conservative becuase they give up on the principles of liberalism ... which is to try to help others no matter what...

becuase they think it's hopeless.. the rest of us cling to it with sacred efforts... and remain liberal.

that's my take anyway.

I still think that people can be changed, turned back to being good, and learn to not mooch off the system, that people CAN be honest... if you show them the light.

maybe I'm just an ideologue.
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SyracuseDemocrat Donating Member (696 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-10-03 12:35 AM
Response to Original message
57. Here's what I think it is:
Life is full of failures. Sometimes these males fail and then start to blame all of their problems on welfare recipients, minorities, etc. They realize that the Republican party is the perfect home for their views.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-12-03 11:10 AM
Response to Original message
60. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
kwolf68 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-03 02:11 PM
Response to Original message
62. Because
Many are selfish, aggressive and dominating.

I was the most self-centered young man growing up. Everything was ALL about me. I was also Conservative.

Since then, I have grown, figured out the world is a much more complex place than I once imagined and that there was a greater calling than getting a job to make money and that serving someone or something other than myself is actually much more pacifying than being a selfish recluse.

The mentality of giving back of compassion of selflessness is NOT a Conservative trait. It never has been and never will be.

I didnt become Liberal and then decide to change the way I thought about the world. I began to look at the world from a much different perspective and then the politics took care of themselves.

To break off the shackles of Conservatism you must consider yourself a minute part of the worldyet almost have the idealistic belief that no matter how insignificant you appear to be, that you can do wonderful things.
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LiveandLetLove Donating Member (4 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-03 07:16 PM
Response to Original message
63. Good question. Let me share this...
I'm a single woman with no kids-college graduate-good job-yaddayaddayadda. One of the girls in our office set me up with this guy. We met for dinner and I (as usual) started talikng politics. I think it really turned him off. He was and engineer at another firm and he was very handsome. He said he knew I was a liberal just by looking at me. I said, "how do you know", he said he could tell just by looking at my glasses.

Long story short. He wouldn't even talk to me after I gave my political position away. He payed for my dinner and excused himself before I even got up from the table.

On a different topic of yours: I know plenty of conservatives (men and women) who smoke pot and drink. They just have different views then us.
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kwolf68 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-15-03 02:13 PM
Response to Reply #63
66. Good story


When I met and married my wife she knew me as a Conservative. I am no longer that and now consider it vile.

She can be classified as a moderate Republican leaning left on some issues (thanks to yours truly)...She so much as said she wanted a Conservative man because she felt they were more successful and she wanted to have kids and raise them and not work out the home...She didn't believe a Liberal man would approve of that.

Well to make a long story short...I am Liberal and I desperately want her to be there for our kids and not someone else. She has a Masters Degree and could put us in a high income bracket, but we decided our priorities were not buying diamonds, cars and shit...but creating a great life for our kids. we dont believe you do that with STUFF, but with the relationship you build.

To that end...I do wish she was more Liberal, more activistic sometimes becuase she doesn't like politics.
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rusk2003 Donating Member (224 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-15-03 02:29 PM
Response to Reply #66
67. more money dose provide a greater life
more money can provide better education, medical dental care, legal help,higher social standing thus giving your children better selection of life partners,nicer family vacations,more money to hire help so you don't have to spen dfree time cleaning, and unexepcted punches life throws at you.

just something to think about any way some people work part time so they can get the best of both worlds. :bounce:
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johnlal Donating Member (974 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-15-03 01:13 PM
Response to Original message
65. I'll tell you why I was conservative at that age
I fell for the conservative lie. It all made sense back then. Ronald Reagan was railing against "tax and spend" liberals, and talking about his trickle-down economics. The Republicans trotted out David Stockman who appeared to be an economics whiz kid. I have always felt that fiscal responsibility was important. Once Reagan's popularity solidified, it was business as usual- huge deficit spending, obscene weapons expenditures, spiraling debt. I felt betrayed, but it was an important lesson.

Nowadays, if anyone starts to talk about "supply-side economics", trickle down, or anything similar, I see the scam. Same with "tax reform" or "flat tax proposal". But others have fallen for the same lies throughout Bush and Bush Lite presidencies.
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pink-o Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-15-03 07:35 PM
Response to Original message
68. I think women can be equally knee-jerk..
But with different motivations. Even the most liberal of us don't think that there's absolutely no difference between the genders, right? And we all agree that there are plenty of ignorant freepers of both sexes, the kind you just wanna shake until their brain cells rattle into place and they begin to think rationally. Men definitely don't hoard the market on that.

Take one issue: Anti-abortion. You turn a man into a flaming pro-lifer by appealing to the fear that if women take power over their own bodies, they might just take it elsewhere and render him superfluous. With a woman, you prey on her compassion for unborn babies, show her bloody pix of aborted fetuses, get her to react emotionally. Both sexes will picket Planned Parenthood and try to overturn Roe V Wade--but with divergent motivations.

As for "turning" conservative, I'm old enough to remember my friends, young in the 70s, who worked hard for the anti-war movement and cried out for Nixon's head on a platter. You should see most of them now--either totally apolitical or registered Repugs. I seem to be the only one who still believes killing and exploitation and inequality are wrong--and it saddens me. Maybe the "real world" does interfere with all of us as we age--but I see no reason to desert our real values.
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premjan Donating Member (30 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-17-03 10:40 AM
Response to Original message
70. it's because
that is when they first begin to grow old (or grow up, depending on how you look at it).
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Classical_Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-24-03 11:58 AM
Response to Original message
73. The DLC doesn't like the Unions because of "class warfare"
or the perception of it. After that he only issues dems stand for are issues that don't involve white guys.
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rusk2003 Donating Member (224 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-24-03 01:49 PM
Response to Original message
74. Their no longer eligable for the draft
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PROGRESSIVE1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-27-03 03:08 PM
Response to Original message
75. Very Personal Insecurity!
.
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hyphenate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-28-03 03:53 PM
Response to Reply #75
77. Men and women are conservatives for many reasons
Women become conservatives for different reasons than men--to sum it all up, it's often a conscious choice by many women to try to recapture what they think/thought was the ideal family situation (which is really a myth) of when they were children. In many cases, women tend to have a very narrow view of what adult life is really like, and will try to block out all the unpleasantry in favor of making that disproportioned dream from the past come as true as they can make it. In most (obviously not all!) cases, conservative women fall into about four different categories:

1) From a rich or upper-middle class background, most likely sequestered from the problems of poverty and class struggle;

2) Raised in a particularly conservative household, perhaps military in origin, who might have all their lives wished to emulate their powerful pater in the hopes of impressing him (even more likely, the woman was raised as an only child to a father who wanted a boy) This kind of household greatly embraces "tradion," and as a result, the woman's role in the family is in hearth and home;

3) A deeply religious, albeit more right-radical religious, household, where it wasn't the desire to help those less privileged, but the desire to help themselves through their religious beliefs, and thereby "save society" as a trickle-down effect;

4) The woman who has no true identity of her own, and allows public opinion to shape her and her views.


As for the male conservative, the reasons are just as vast, but with some obvious standouts:

1) The man who was raised in a typically conservative household (see #2 under women above). They are most likely to engender very strident views about women and their place in society (hence a fear of powerful and strong women), they are also likely to have deep seated prejudices about minorities (as evidenced elsewhere in this thread) and they are least likely to be swayed by issues and ideals of liberalism, simply because "their way" is the only way they have ever known;

2) True capitalists, who really don't give a crap about issues, Democrats, Republicans, whoever, just as long as they're able to profit, just as long as they can make certain that the least amount of money can be taken from them in the process, and just as long as foreigners don't muscle in on their territory;

3) Rich or upper middle class males who are either undereducated in the world political arena, or who choose willingly, to ignore the plight of those in other countries. These people probably have deep-rooted prejudices against anyone who doesn't fit in the white male mold, because it's only those who are of that mold who they can trust implicitly. (Sort of like your garden-variety country club member.)

4) Those who might have been raised in families with single mothers, who as a result of their upbringing chose to "be different" than their pater familias, and become dedicated fathers and scions of family estates. Of course, along the way, they build up a certain amount of hatred and indifference toward those women who raised them, and end up denigrating all who rely on either the state welfare system and help from oh-so-patronizing family members, and the fact that these measures are what managed to help them make something better of themselves;

and

5) Males who have never really grown up. They are selfish, self-absorbed little boys who want to carry their guns and shoot people like they did growing up with their toy guns, when life was truly blissful, and mommy and daddy took care of all their needs, both physically and emotionally.


As far as a previous poster's comment about unions and such, I am in full agreement that many conservatives fail to remember that it was the fact that workers were able to take their own futures into their own hands that helped spur liberal policies in many areas that touch upon employment and the needs of the average worker. My dad was part of unions, and I myself was part of one as well. However, I don't see as many people who follow politics on their own in these middle-class occupations--many of them will read the union newsletter and rely on the choices their union makes for them in terms of who they should be voting for.

In another area, I am a single woman, who didn't graduate from college, though by today's standards, my level is far above that of many college students. I have assumed a lot of self education over the years, read continuously and find out what I can through working on the computer and on the internet. I have a high IQ, but not a lot of money (currently unemployed) and would surely like to see the U.S. put back on course, something which isn't going to happen with the regime in power now, and most assuredly not with the conservatives dictating policy as they currently are.
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GOPBasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-29-03 04:36 PM
Response to Original message
78. I'm a 26 yr-old man and I'm a liberal.
I know that the majority of men who vote are Repubs, but certainly not all.
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luigi8888 Donating Member (13 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-29-03 08:16 PM
Response to Original message
79. It's so easy.
Everything is answered neatly, in black and white, and very satisfactorily - America is good, bad people get blown up, and white male Christianity is in charge, the end. Plus, the media makes it easy.
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HPLeft Donating Member (490 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-30-03 12:56 PM
Response to Original message
80. Confusion about Male Behavior
Edited on Sat Aug-30-03 01:05 PM by HPLeft
I think some men become conservatives because they are truly confused about what it means to be a man.

True compassion, especially kick-ass, tough-love compassion, requires a mixture of authentic strength and psychological insight. You have to know who you are, and why you think and act as you do, before you can truly be of service within your family, or to other people on this planet. You have to be able think outside of typical herd-like jock-ish, machismo patterns. Otherwise, you're just unconsciously playing out a blueprint that some supposed authority figure told you that you're supposed to follow - and are hence neither a leader or courageous. You're just a drone.

Liberalism and progressive values have been caricatured over the past 20 years as being weak and unmanly. No man wants to be thought of as weak. That's why a candidate like John Kerry is so important to the American psyche. Unlike cowards like Dubya and Cheney, Kerry decided to serve his country, then return home and blow the whistle on the things he believed were wrong about his country's direction.

What men need today are better role models for courageous, emotionally-conscious, behavior. Neither Bill Clinton or Dubya and his Chickenhawks brethren represent those kind of role models. Democrats need strong, centered, emotionally-conscious men representing our values, in partnership with strong, centered and emotionally-conscious women. We have to begin to redefine the entire debate - and stop letting fools like Limbaugh and Hannity set the agenda in people's minds.
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Realityhack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-01-03 01:16 PM
Response to Original message
81. I think I might Know
Ok, I think I have it...

Males between these ages are not typicaly acustomed to useing thier brains.

Seriously... Reactionary conservitism is soundbite politics. You don't actualy have to follow or beleve any of it. You just adopt it cause it sounds cool. So if you are used to haveing your brain in the off position where such inconsitancies don't register, and especily if you are of an age and gender where society has told you that you should be upset and angery alot. Well they give you great targets to vent at.

A verry social thing as well. That demographic is hevily infulenced for the same reasons by both their emediate and larger "TV" "Peer groops".

David Brocks book has some interesting stuff on it.

-Realityhack
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meow2u3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-02-03 09:02 AM
Response to Original message
82. Most conservative men were emotionally abused as boys
Edited on Tue Sep-02-03 09:02 AM by fed2dneck
In other words, the boys whose fathers have overdisciplined them without showing them any affection become the conservative men of today.
Their unconscious rationale: "They made me suffer when I was small; I'll make everyone else suffer now. Since I'm not allowed to make Mom and Dad suffer because they're superior to me, I'll have to take it out on the public."

Women emotionally abused as girls, on the other hand, are more likely to become poltically liberal. Wanna know how I know this? I've lived it.


edited to correct spelling
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Uncle Sam Donating Member (6 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-03-03 11:34 PM
Response to Original message
85. You have to grow up sooner or later
I would imagine it's because they got a job and started a family.
But, what do I know ?
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-04-03 12:00 AM
Response to Reply #85
86. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
BurtWorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-04-03 12:04 AM
Response to Reply #85
87. How does getting a job and starting a family ruin the brain like that?
All that telemarketing and all those diapers just makes them stop thinking? Interesting theory.
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pmbryant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-09-03 05:43 PM
Response to Original message
88. Locking
Please do not make sexist, derogatory comments about all members of either gender.

Thanks,
pmbryant
DU Moderator
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