Edwards Slams Dean for Confederate Flag Remarks

[Feanorcurufinwe]

"What Howard Dean said today was nothing short of offensive. Democrats from every wing of the party understand what that flag symbolizes. And when a politician embraces one of the most divisive symbols in America, it is offensive to every American. Some of the greatest Civil Rights leaders, white and black, have come from the South. To assume that southerners who drive trucks would embrace this symbol is offensive.”
http://www.johnedwards2004.com/page.asp?id=323

[Name removed]

1. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LuminousX]

4. I'm Sure Sharpton will be Up Next

They are all going to gang on Dean for this. It is like blood in the water with a school of desperate hungry sharks.

[Sean Reynolds]

5. Well Sharpton would gang up on a school boy........

That picked a vanilla chocolate bar over a dark chocolate one.

I wanna know where Dean once stated he 'embraced' the flag? If you check my other post you'd see he didn't 'embrace' the flag; in fact he said they should TAKE IT DOWN!

[LuminousX]

7. His actual stance won't matter

The other candidates sense an opportunity. Dean will need to respond swiftly and harshly to these attacks to weather this storm. He's done it in the past but this is too juicy, the media will even pick up on this a lot.

[mbali]

16. Dean can't be crticized

for his record, he can't be criticized for his proposals, he can't be criticized for his words.

And anyone who tries is a jealous liar.

No one called Dean a racist. He is being called out for comments that are offensive to many people. The fact that SOME people aren't offended by his comments doesn't make them ok. Lots of people think that every word that comes out of George Bush's mouth is honey, but that doesn't make him any less offensive to many, many people.

Dean fans only hurt their candidate by time after time after time after time not only defending him regardless of how bad his missteps, but attacking anyone who has the nerve to suggest that Dean's stuff don't stink. The Dean campaign is more and more starting to resemble a cult.

Get a clue. Dean is not infallible. He makes misstakes sometimes. He compounds these mistakes by refusing to acknowledge them and accusing anyone who points them out of evil motives. His inability to ever admit error makes him look arrogant and stubborn. His supporters' inability to ever admit it, regardless of the circumstances, makes them look just plain silly.

[virtualobserver]

19. it wasn't a mistake, we need every vote.

Do you want those votes to go to Bush?

[DJcairo]

6. He said it differently then

He didn't say flag and didn't say he wanted "to be their candidate"

But noticing differences is difficult for people who won't read statements from the opposition or who don't care what their candidate says unless it's about Iraq.

[LuminousX]

2. Operation ClusterF***

No matter what Dean actually said, I do believe this is going to be his death knell. Know we only have Kerry the Liar and Edwards the Naive.

[virtualobserver]

8. I don't think so.....

Dean is simply saying that he wants to bring the "guys with Confederate flags in their pickup trucks" over to vote Democrat.

Apparently, Kerry, Gephardt, and Edwards want as few votes as possible, as illustrated by their statements, and especially by the way they are running their campaigns.

They are the "leaders" of a minority Democratic party.

Dean wants to lead a majority.

[LuminousX]

10. We know what Dean is saying

But the other campaigns will do everything they can to make sure a different interpretation is heard. See Clark's release where he implies Dean wants to fly the confederate flag from public buildings.

[virtualobserver]

12. The attacks won't work......

Dean has to be able to handle this, and I think that he will.

It needs to be dealt with now. The ultimate result is that southern voters will be more receptive to him now. All of the publicity surrounding this will help Dean ultimately.

[XanaDUer]

13. Not the African-American ones

47% of SC Dem voters are African-American.

[virtualobserver]

15. It won't drive away African-Americans

Dean is asking for votes. No reasonable Democrat wants anyone to vote for Bush.

Kerry, Clark, Edwards and Gephardt are behaving like desperate politicians. African-Americans will not be impressed as they wildly wave their arms.

[mbali]

18. African Americans understand

and are wary of the attitude implicit in Dean's statement. The only way to attract Confederate flag-wavers is for the Democratic Party to make them feel welcome. The only way to make such people feel welcome is to give them policies that serve their interests. Many of the policies that serve such people's interests - particularly those policies that drive their choice of party - are antithetical to the interests of African American voters. That's one reason that the Confederate flag crowd tends to vote Republican and African Americans tend to vote Democratic.

Dean probably didn't mean to impart such a message, but saying that he wants to attract these people to the Democratic Party sends a frightening signal to black voters. It was a stupid, short-sighted comment that I think Dean will come to sorely regret.

[virtualobserver]

20. Telling them that you don't want their vote....

as Gephardt did, should be the thing that sends a frightening signal to black voters.

[DannyRed]

25. Questions:

Are you African American?

Do you live in the South?

Have you lived in the South and done work with African Americans?

I am white, and I spent 8 years in Durham North Carolina, working on political and social and labor issues with various interest groups, including Black Workers for Justice and the various local Unions and the NAACP...

What Dean said resonates, and is recognized as true by most every union activist, civil rights activist, social activist in the South...and by a large number of both Black and White people, including my neighbors and friends from when I lived there.

Your attitude indicates that you have little experience.

[DemDogs]

22. Which Southerners would like this remark?

African-American Southerners? African-American Southerners know how they are treated by the whites who fall into Dean's stereotype.
White Southern Democrats? White Southern Democrats know two things: there are groups in the South who use the Confederate flag symbol as an expression of hate and no Democrat wins in the South without African-American votes.

Now if you think that white Southern Republicans will like that remark so much that they would vote for Dean over Bush, you have crossed over into the Twilight Zone.

[Bread and Circus]

14. LuminousX, your post is utter bullshit...

Clark did no such thing.

I encourage everyone to read Clark's statement
for themselves without Luminous's cynical commentary.

Clark probably wouldn't have said anything but knows he
would have been nuked by Lieb and the media for silence.

Instead, he took the high road altogether and framed the
bigger issue in a very progressive way.

I don't know who you support, but you can't just go lying
about Clark like that.

Even an idiot knows what Dean was talking about and I think
people should lay off Dean. I demand an apology for your
remarks. A real Democrat is better than that.

[LuminousX]

24. I will re-read and apologize

But the remark was relayed to me via a known Dean hater so I figured the Clark statement was being used to further the hate against Dean.

[w4rma]

36. I think the Dean bashers just succeeded in giving Dean the nomination

They are widely advertising a portion of Dean's stump speech while outright lying about it. That kills their own campaigns by building up contempt against them.

Considering Dean has used nearly these exact same words in most of the stump speeches he has given, it is very easy to debunk these smears. The articles already out, debunk these smears, already.

[Padraig18]

3. nice cut and paste from GD.

eom

[killbotfactory]

9. Dean apologized in writing when he was wrong about Edwards and the war

Do you think Dean will get the same courtesy?

Of course not.

[DemDogs]

28. Alienate African-Americans=lose big

Dean obviously does not understand what the confederate flag means to African-Americans in the South. It is not a benign symbol of people who we might be winning over to the Democratic party if we just had the right candidate talking about health care. It is a symbol of violence, oppression, insensitivity, racism and deep hatred. When Dean says he wants to reach out to these people, he is also saying to African-Americans that their history and feelings on this issue are not important. Just like the "enemy of my enemy is my friend", the "friend of my enemy is my enemy."
And the sooner he understands this, the sooner he apologizes again, not to Edwards this time, but to African-Americans whose oppression he has failed to appreciate.
(I bet Jesse Jackson, Jr. is feeling lousy today.)

[deutsey]

11. "To assume that southerners who drive trucks

would embrace this symbol is offensive."

Yeah, Edwards, that's exactly what Dean is assuming. All southerners who drive pickup trucks embrace the Confederate flag. (sarcasm off)

God, where's the uproar over such asinine comments from Edwards?

Dean, perhaps in a hamfisted way, is saying we need to be inclusive of those Americans who the GOP exploit and manipulate for political gain...include them in the Democratic vision of the promise of what America can and should be. Otherwise, Bush Co. will keep them dangling on their strings of fear.

Sigh. But I guess it's easier to do your own exploitation of an issue in an attempt to revive a failing and irrelevant campaign.

[jburton]

17. Edwards needs some media coverage

He might as well join in this pile-on.

[polpilot]

21. Typical trial lawyer response.Surprised he didn't finish with his 'po boy'

speech. Edwards needs to work on his delivery. He needs to realize that he not's delivering closing arguments to 12 mill worker jurors who can't count to 10 with their shoes on. NOW THAT'S OFFENSIVE!!!!

Dean '04...

[DemDogs]

23. Edwards is right about this

And attacking the messenger is exactly the Dean-supporter tactic.
The problem is what Dean says. Talk about that.

[Endangered Specie]

26. YOu know theyre getting despirate

The more they fire at Dean, the more happy I get, bc the more I know he's gonna win! Anything Dean says that could possibly be used against him, will be. THe other 8 need to read him his miranda rights.

"You have the right to remain silent, anything you say or imply will be used as ammuntion against you in the primary"

They are getting SO despirate.

[polpilot]

27. Dean leads with strong lanuguage that is non-nuanced. One who is

accustomed to and accepting of Kerry's professional 'straddled' votes and comments will be uncomfortable with Dean. Not all are ready for a leader. The Gep/Kerry crowd are comfortable with their pale non-candidates and I certainly accept that.

Howard Dean '04...Buckle up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[DrFunkenstein]

30. No, His Staff Tells People What He Really Meant The Next Day

Just like they performed damage control with this issue as well.

[DemDogs]

34. Dean - the non-nuanced metrosexual?

Give us some credit here.

[DrFunkenstein]

29. Are You Saying Mill Workers Are Stupid?

I'm so glad I didn't put you on ignore. You are far too entertaining.

[polpilot]

32. Merely attempting to be as inane and offensive as Edwards' quote was.

I think I made it!!!

Dean '04...

[Feanorcurufinwe]

33. Some tasks take more effort than others, I guess. Try something harder.

[genius]

38. A trial lawyer may one day save your life

Treat them with respect.

[Nazgul35]

31. Wow....

I am almost hesitant to engage in this nonsense that has been going on for some time....but it is clear that the Kerry campaign and Edwards campaign is attempting to paint the Governor as a racist...

Does the Governor say that he will appeal to Southerners on their possible racist attitudes that have been used by the repugs over the last 30 years...ever since the Southern strategy was created? Anyone here who even suggest this is on crack! Dean clearly says that he will appeal to these voters by discussing health care, education and jobs, things that ALL lower and middle income families worry about....

Do we forget that LBJ's building of schools (which helped desegregation) and the Space Program (which helped bring economic growth) did much to undermine the racist message of the Republicans....it wasn't until we allowed people to turn Afirmative Action into quotas....allowed classifications into smaller and smaller groups, instead of trying to lift up all people....

The reason that repugs pull this shit is that the minute that the poor realize they've been getting screwed, they'll be coming for their piece of the American pie....STOP BEING LAZY!!! What Kerry and Edwards have done is the opposite of the Repug Southern strategy...trying to paint a fellow Dem as a racist in order to turn off African American voters........shame!

This attitude of vague understanding has gotten out of hand.....you really do a diservice to yourselves by engaging in this nonsense bashing of candidates you fear....and unfortunately it is only going to get worse as the supporters of some candidates are going to get worse.....perhaps a little maturity here.....if my candidate loses, I am going to pull up my socks and work my ass off for however does win the nomination......so we should all GROW THE FUCK UP and learn to take our lumps when our guy doesn't win....this nit picking shit is beneath contempt....

Of course, i'll be critized for not taking this issue seriously because they are pretending that this is something more than it is.....for their own purposes of course....hey, let's spend some more time sitting in front of the keyboard...arguing over issue that 99% of the public doesnt know about or give a shit about...while the repugs raise tons of cash to flood the airwaves with all the amunition we give them.....that'll be sure to win us back the WH in 2004....

Hey, here's an idea....perhaps we can win people over by educating them about the truth of their situation, instead of engaging in platitudes and sound bites that are only designed to repress voter turnout....why not give the people a reason to vote...instead of a reason not to vote....but I guess you'd actually need a candidate who can do that...with a message that reaches all the people.....

[LuminousX]

35. Nah, it is easier posting 10 threads on the same topic

[DemDogs]

41. Neither said he was a racist -- they said he was wrong.

And instead of answering that, Dean people are answering that he is not a racist. I agree He just says wants to be the candidate of racists -- that is a stupid thing to say.

[genius]

37. Good for Edwards. I'm liking him better all the time.

I was extremely impressed with him in the debate. I'm still backing Kucinich. I agree with Dennis on everything but Edwards is a really good guy.

[DemDogs]

39. Great Edwards statement

STATEMENT BY EDWARDS IN RESPONSE TO DEAN'S COMMENTS ON SOUTHERN VOTERS

ALGONA, IA: Senator John Edwards (NC) released the following statement in response to Governor Dean's remarks on southern voters:

I have lived for fifty years in the South. And the working men and women, white and African-American, Governor Dean speaks of are my family, my neighbors, my classmates, the people who fought together for equality and dignity in every part of their lives. What Governor Dean may not understand, is what the Confederate flag means to us in terms of oppression and too often violence. If we embrace those who display the flag for the purpose of heralding that oppression, because we think they share some economic common ground with us, we then fail to share the moral common ground with the Southern Democrats, white and African-American, who have been the core of the Southern Democratic Party.

[JohnKleeb]

40. I am feeling the same way as genius my fellow Kucinich supporter does

about Edwards. He's a good man, I wish he had said no to the war, I really do but on issues particulary about the common man, hes a great guy.

[BallaFaseke]

42. Heritage not hate Mr Edwards