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One thing Clark has going for him

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Speck Tater Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-03 01:28 AM
Original message
One thing Clark has going for him
Disclaimer: I'm a Dean supporter and I don't care for Clark, but...

He has said in effect that he supported Bush then decided he'd been let down, and wouldn't support him now. Frankly, he is probably the best candidate to draw the votes of others who voted for Bush and started out supporting him, but then also decided along they way that they'd been betrayed.

These disillusioned Republicans might feel a lot of empathy with Clark for that stand. It could translate into a lot of votes. That's possibly an edge the other Dems don't have, and can't lay claim to.

Don't get me wrong, I'll keep right on dissing the guy, but if he's the pick of the crop then I will go to the polls and vote against Bush. My first choice is to vote for someone, because that just feels better. But if Dean doesn't get the nomination then I'll have to be satisfied with voting against Bush.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-03 01:46 AM
Response to Original message
1. But he didn't say that
He didn't support Bush, he voted for Al Gore. Spring 2001 he gave a speech to some Republicans and said nice things about the Administration, they had just taken office. Not a whole awful lot to criticize at that point. Then over the course of the last 2 years, he not only became disillusioned with Bush, it seems he's become horrified.

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Tinoire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-03 01:52 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. What disillusionment? In March 2003, Clark lavished praised on Bush & Co
Edited on Tue Oct-07-03 01:54 AM by Tinoire
I'm just not seeing the disillusionment here. What am I missing?

If I think about it really hard, I suppose I could see that Clark is disillusioned that they gave the Military Industrial Complex game away but that's about it.

March 2003

Of the people who are running this war, from Vice President Dick Cheney and Defense Secretary Don Rumsfeld and Powell on down, in terms of the political appointees, are there are any who you particularly like who you would work with again, hypothetically, in some ...

I like all the people who are there. I've worked with them before. I was a White House Fellow in the Ford administration when Secretary Rumsfeld was White House chief of staff and later Secretary of Defense, and Dick Cheney was the deputy chief of staff at the White House and later the chief.

(Deputy Secretary of Defense) Paul Wolfowitz I've known for many, many years. (Deputy National Security Advisor) Steve Hadley at the White House is an old friend. (Under Secretary of Defense for Policy) Doug Feith I worked with very intensively during the time we negotiated the Dayton Peace Agreement; he was representing the Bosnian Muslims then, along with (Pentagon advisor) Richard Perle. So I like these people a lot. They're not strangers. They're old colleagues.

Do you disagree with them on their worldview?

I disagreed with them on some specific aspects. I would not have gone after the war on terror exactly as did and I laid that out in the . But I also know there's no single best plan. You have to pick a plan that might work and make it work. That means you've got to avoid the plans with the fatal flaws. This administration came into office predisposed to use American troops for war fighting and to realign American foreign policy so it focused on a more robust, more realistic view of the world than the supposedly idealistic view of the previous administration.

But the views that President Bush espoused recently at the American Enterprise Institute, if his predecessor had espoused that view he'd have been hooted off the stage, laughed at, accused of being incredibly idealistic about the hard-nosed practical politics of the Middle East. So this is an administration that's moving in a certain direction, and now that that's the direction they've picked they've got to make it work. Like everybody else, I hope they'll be successful. It's too important; we can't afford to fail.

But certainly you're contemplating running for president -- I understand you haven't made a decision -- so even though you root for their success, you can't agree with their methods.

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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-03 04:15 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. "middle of war"
"You're unlikely to hear Clark the candidate speak up on CNN, now that we're in the middle of war."

"Salon spoke to Clark several times by telephone last week. On Sunday, four days into Operation Iraqi Freedom, we caught up with him again to talk about the status of the war. Those questions and answers are at the end of the interview."

I know people on this board think everybody should be running through D.C., ripping people out of their offices and setting the place on fire, but that's not the real world. Most people try to respect others, even if they strongly disagree with what they're doing.

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GOPBasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-03 04:59 AM
Response to Reply #2
6. "I hope they'll be successful."
Of course he hopes they'll be successful. Don't you? Of course we all dislike Bush's foreign policy, but are you actually HOPING that he fails? Are you actually HOPING for another terrorist attack? I hate Bush, and I think a good President would've done things much differently, but of course I hope we're successful now that we're doing it this way.
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clar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-03 10:43 AM
Response to Reply #6
9. Yes, I'm hoping he fails
I'm hoping he fails with as little attendant death, distruction and misery as possible, but I'm hoping he fails. Should Bush be perceived in any way shape or forms as successful a year from now, we're all in even deeper shit; he'll be re-elected. And then we'll really inherit the cyclone.
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boxster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-03 10:37 AM
Response to Reply #2
8. What you're obviously missing is the point.
Liking people and knowing them does not equate to agreeing with their positions on the issues. My father is a right-wing wacko - that does not mean that I am, as well. In fact, we disagree so heartily on so many issues that we have agreed that politics is off-limits between us.

Re: "I hope they're be successful". (Noting your bolded emphasis)

I take it that your opinion is that we should fail?
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-03 01:29 PM
Response to Reply #2
11. Never mind
though he said he would not be in Iraq. On the other hand, a few "pure" democrats voted wholeheartedly for the Iraq invasion.
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Feanorcurufinwe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-03 03:57 AM
Response to Original message
3. But is it really true he voted for Reagan?
is there a link for that? I mean, Reagan... I have a hard time with that... Reagan was so obviously an empty suit and I just don't see how someone could have voted for him without either being just plain evil or much more gullible than our President should be.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-03 04:17 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. He said probably
No, I don't have a linky. But I read that he said he probably did, ballots get lost in the military and all. And he probably voted for Bush 1 too, he said. I have a really hard time with his politics too, but I'm willing to give him a wait and see. We've got lots of time.
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Eurobabe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-03 05:46 AM
Response to Reply #3
7. link here?
Keeping an open mind as an independent.
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ModerateMiddle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-03 01:15 PM
Response to Original message
10. How you feel about Clark is how I feel about Dean
I don't want to vote FOR him, but I will vote against Bush, even if Dean is the nominee. It's not a horrible position to have. Folks have reasonable reasons for their choices, and are very entitled to have them.

I like the fact that Clark looks like he's humbled to be running for President and is excited about doing so.
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Larkspur Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-07-03 01:35 PM
Response to Original message
12. Lowell Weicker didn't need Clark to convince him Bush was bad
and Dean has been attracting Republicans who voted for Bush for quite some time now. Go check the Republicans for Dean web site.
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