Howard Dean is right on the Medical Marijuana issue...

[sfecap]

And here is why.

Like it or not, marijuana is classified as a Class I controlled drug under tha Controlled Substances Act. (I am not interested in arguing whether it should be there or not, the fact is that it is...)

In order to remove it from the Class I list, this is what has to happen:

21 USC, Part B

(snip)

(c) Factors determinative of control or removal from schedules In making any finding under subsection (a) of this section or under subsection (b) of section 812 of this title, the Attorney General shall consider the following factors with respect to each drug or other substance proposed to be controlled or removed from the schedules:

(1) Its actual or relative potential for abuse.

(2) Scientific evidence of its pharmacological effect, if known.

(3) The state of current scientific knowledge regarding the drug or other substance.

(4) Its history and current pattern of abuse.

(5) The scope, duration, and significance of abuse.

(6) What, if any, risk there is to the public health.

(7) Its psychic or physiological dependence liability.

(8) Whether the substance is an immediate precursor of a substance already controlled under this subchapter.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

The Federal Agency that examines the data that determines pharmacological effects and potential for curative or medicinal use is the FDA. They do so through clinical trials and research. (I am not interested in debating whether they should do it or some university panel should do it. The fact is it is within the scope of the FDA's mandate by law.

Howard Dean has stated that he will, as President, instruct the FDA to begin clinical trials to determine the efficacy of marijuana issofar as it's medicinal use. He will abide by their decision, regardless of his own personal feelings as a physician on the matter.

The bottom line is that the ONLY way it is going to be approved for use is through the FDA process. While states may enact their own legislation, people still run the risk of the DEA crashing down on them claiming Federal Law usurps State Law.

Dean's position will prevent Federal agencies from terrorizing citizens legitimate use (if FDA appoval is granted).

We can debate the legitimacy of the Controlled Substances Act at some other time. That is not the issue. The fact is that Gov. Dean recognizes that IF there is a legitimate medicinal use for marijuana, it MUST get thru the approval process. He is being smart. It would be easy to just come out and say, "yep, I'm all for it!" That may sound real good to some, but it won't get the job done.

[Mairead]

1. No, he isn't right

You don't seem to realise that human laws are not the same as physical laws. Marijuana possession could be re-legalised in exactly the same way it was made de-legalised in the first place: fiat.

There was no science involved then and there's no science involved now. It's pure racist power-politics, nothing more.

[MercutioATC]

3. Marijuana is a scheduled drug...

...and whether it should be legalized or not is a matter of opinion, not fact.

Dean has said that he won't be in favor of medical marijuana until he sees FDA studies that prove it's more effective than current synthetics. I'm sure heroin would also relieve the vast majority of pain in ANY medical situation, but I'm not about to support its legalization without some serious supporting research.

[DemBones DemBones]

8. Why must it be proven MORE effective than current synthetics?

One thing's for sure about current synthetics, you can overdose on them. Look at all the abuse of oxycontin that's going on today, and the deaths resulting from abuse. It's very profitable for the manufacturer, though.

Drugs that provide real pain relief are expensive, are abused by some people, and have some nasty side effects for those who take them as prescribed, for pain relief. Read up on them and see if you think heroin would be much worse. But remember that no one is talking about legalizing heroin, only marijuana. Marijuana is not an opiate. Many pain drugs are.

[MercutioATC]

15. I'm not agruing whether marijuana should be legalized or not

but it's illegal NOW. Therefore, it would have to prove to be more successful than legal synthetics for it's medical use to be allowed. I don't see how you could justify prescribing an illegal substance when a more effective, legal synthetic was available.

[Nicholas_J]

14. Heroin has been used for a century

outside of the U.S. for pain. The U.S. is the only nation in which it is illegal for medical use.

There is more than enough evidence of its SUPERIORITY in for use in pain relief of terminal illness.

It is prescribed in cough medicines througout Europe, without causing ANY more addition than in the U.S.

Wrong again Mercutio. Such studies are irrelevant. Your conservativism is peeking out again.

[MercutioATC]

16. We use opiates in THIS country (we call one of them morphine)

Agree or not, heroin is illegal in this country while the medicinal use of morphine (and codeine) is not. All are opiates, but we have decided that we don't use heroin medically in the U.S.

Why does this upset you? We DO have adequate analgesic choices without using heroin, including other opiates. I have yet to see a study determining that heroin is a better painkiller than other opiates.

I'll never agree that "such studies are irrelevant". Dean has stated that if an FDA study proves that medical marijuana is more effective than the legal synthetics we use now, he'd suppoprt its use, and I fail to see how that's irresponsible. Your fringe liberalism is peeking out again.

[sfecap]

5. "Racist Power politics". I understand.

That ought to get the laws changed. Just tell 'em it's racist power politics. Simple!

[DemBones DemBones]

7. Are you familiar with the way racism was used to turn public

opinion against marijuana?

[DemBones DemBones]

2. You say, "I am not interested in debating. . ." and "I am not

interested in arguing. . ." which, along with your other statements. indicates that you consider yourself an authority on this matter and believe that the rest of us should do the same. So I think you need to tell us your qualifications that you believe make you an expert on laws regarding marijuana, the role of the FDA, etc.

Edit: While you're at it, why don't you tell us what you think about people going to jail for years for possession of marijuana, and what your candidate proposes to do about it. It's my opinion that it's time for this country to stop fighting the war against some drugs because it's been as ineffective as Prohibition and far too punitive. With his own son now in trouble with the law, I would hope Dean would realize what harsh drug laws have done to American families.

[sfecap]

4. I am not an authority...

Didn't claim to be.

The applicable law is there. Research it more if you like. The DEA and the FDA have the governing authorities it appears.

My point is that we can debate the semantics, but the pragmatic method to get it off the controlled list is as I noted.

FWIW...I strongly favor the use for MM. And I favor the decriminalization of M.

I just don't want to rehash whether it should be classified as a Group I drug, etc. That is not relevant for the purposes oif this discussion...

On edit...

Incarcerating casual users and posessers of small amounts of drugs is idiocy. It is a waste of money and assets. "My" candidate favors education and rehabilitation, not incarceration. In his view, substance abuse is a medical issue, not a criminal issue.

[DemBones DemBones]

6. It's interesting that you favor going through a lengthy process to

determine if marijuana is medically useful but admit that you favor decriminalization. If you favor decriminalization, what difference does it make whether it's proven medically effective? As long as it's been used, I think it could be approved as a food additive under the GRAS standards.

You've also not mentioned a major problem with FDA approval, namely that there would be pressure to make MM a patented prescription drug, with one of the big pharmaceutical companies inserting an alien gene in Cannabis sativa so that they could make a profit off the seeds they sell to farmers and a profit off the drug itself. Dean is playing into their hands.

[Mairead]

9. "Dean is playing into their hands"

You're being your usual charitable self, DB! I see it more a simple expression of his corporatism. He favors his elite peers being able to keep their hands in the till everywhere, so he sets it up that way while dissembling his motives. And people fall for it.

[dsc]

10. I don't intend to answer for him

but since I hold the same position this is my reasoning. Anything, including those so called additives, that are marketed with medical claims ought to have to prove them. While admittedly marijuana has very few side effects that isn't the totality of the problem. If people with diseases which could be cured or alleviated with other drugs instead take marijuana we should know if it is effective or not. Obviously if marijuana were to be decriminalized people could choose to use it however they like but I think before it is advertized for its curative or alleving affects it should have to prove them just like any other drug would. In short, my problem is the snake oil salesman problem.

[Mairead]

18. One word: laetrile

[dsc]

21. a word which makes my case

I put your word in to msn's search engine. Amongst the numerous sites which sell laetril was this one:

www.cancer.gov/cancerinfo/doc.aspx?viewid=962ba852-6565-41cb-b4c1-23c00b3c5f9f

I have chosen not to quote anything from this link due to copywrite rules. We are supposed to quote only 4 paragraphs and I would need to do more than that to have the methodology to explain the table. What this site did is evaluate the studies that have been conducted on laetril and found them to be either the weakest possible or the second weakest possible in each and every case. In short laetril is the quniticential snake oil for our age. You obviously feel it is perfectly OK for people to bilk cancer patients, the most vulnerable group imaginable, out of money if one is doing so with natural remedies. I don't.

[SyracuseDemocrat]

11. here's what we should do

We should treat marijuana exactly like we do tobacco. We should legalize it, regulate it, and tax the shit out of it to raise money for education. That way the drug will probably be safer and if young kids are determined to use it it won't be laced with anything else.

[bslater523]

12. Welcome to DU from a another Syracusan!

Syracuse born and raised. Hope you enjoy DU, we're a friendly bunch, most of the time.

[killbotfactory]

20. I agree...

But I haven't seen any candidates advocate legalizing marijuana except for Libertarians.

[Nicholas_J]

13. The drug schedule is totally unrelated to anything medical

But part of an international convention on Narcotics in 1961.This had nothing to do with Medicine, and was a politicla document to stop trade in drugs considered illegal by many nations. They were not allowed because of an arbitrary definition that the drugs had NO known medical uses. Britain for example, allows use of HEROIN, a drug considered illegal under the convention.

http://www.incb.org/e/conv/1961/

Prior to 1961, marijuana was not illegal as a narcotic, and no U.S. laws made it illegal as a narcotic. It was illegal under the Marijuana Tax Act. YOu could posees it, but only with a stamp that showed you pad your marijuana tax. he government just refused to let anyone pay the tax.

Dean is totally wrong, his opinion is of a VERY, VERY small minority, and he has very little medical opinion to bqack his point up.

Morphine, far more addictive and dangerous than marijuana, is schedule 2. And Cocaine is a schedule 1 drug that doctors are have been allowed to use opthamically for years, and for neurological conditions now. I get whacked with schedule one cocaine into nerves regularly by anethesiologists.

And marinol, a deactivated form of THC (THC with oils that deactivate its euphoric effects) is already a prescription medication used to assist in nausea from chemotherapy. It is already used, but the deactivation makes it ineffective for other conditions.

Summary: Marinol is a synthetic version of THC, the active ingredient in marijuana. Like smoked marijuana, it can reduce nausea and stimulate appetite ("the munchies").

What is Marinol?
Marinol is the brand name of dronabinol, a synthetic version of 9-tetrahydro- cannabinol (THC), the active ingredient in marijuana. In Canada, it has been approved for the treatment of severe nausea due to cancer chemotherapy. It is also used "off label" (used to treat something for which it was not specifically licenced) by some HIV-positive people to stimulate appetite. This increase in appetite may help some people gain weight. Note that it may take 2-4 weeks before appetite improvement occurs.

To treat nausea and vomiting
As an anti-nausea treatment, 5 mg of Marinol may be taken 3 or 4 times daily. The response to Marinol varies from person to person, so the amount of drug taken and the timing of doses will vary as well.

A number of studies have been done to assess dronabinol's effect on nausea and vomiting in people receiving chemotherapy for cancer. Of 454 people who received Marinol to reduce or prevent nausea and vomiting, 36% had a complete response, 32% had a partial response (some improvement), and 32% had a poor response (little or no improvement).

To increase appetite
As an appetite stimulant, 5 mg Marinol may be taken taken twice daily, one 2.5 mg capsule one hour before lunch and another 2.5 mg one hour before dinner.

Beal and colleagues enrolled 139 HIV-positive people who had lost at least 2.3 kg in a 6 week study of Marinol as an appetite stimulant. The participants were randomly assigned to receive either 2.5 mg Marinol (one hour before supper) or a placebo. Eighty-eight participants completed the study; 69% of those who had received Marinol and 57% of those who had received a placebo. By the end of the trial, those who had received Marinol had significant improvements in appetite and mood, decreased nausea, and their weight had stabilized.

Side effects
Side effects vary from person to person and may be dose-related. Like marijuana, Marinol may cause a sense of well being, easy laughing, elation and heightened awareness. Other side effects that may occur are dizziness, drowsiness, muddled thinking, and anxiety.

The manufacturer cautions that people using Marinol should not drive or work with machinery due to the possible impairment of judgment.

Drug interactions
The use of amphetamines or cocaine with Marinol may increase the risk of high blood pressure, and rapid or irregular heartbeat. Barbiturates, alcohol, antihistamines or muscle relaxants may increase drowsiness. No information is available about combining Marinol and marijuana.

http://www.catie.ca/facts.nsf/0/5c1c28f3f97870558525673500818acb?OpenDocument

MARINOL

(dronabinol*)

Capsules

(Warning: May be habit forming)

The USAN name for delta-9-tetrahydrocannabinol (THC).



Dronabinol is a cannabinoid designated chemically as (6aR-trans)-6a,7,8,10a-tetrahydro-6,6,9-trimethyl-3-pentyl-6H- dibenzopyran-l-ol. Dronabinol has the following empirical and structural formulas:

http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/hemp/medical/marinol1.htm

SO enough Crap about Dean being right becasue marijuana is a schedule 1 narcotic, That decision was political, not medical.

I am prescribe to several hundred 15 mlligram tablets of morphine a month and it is just as likely to be something that is abused, as marijuana. It is medcally necessary, and there is more than enough medical literature to indicate the same of medical marijuana

Like Dean you guys will misrepresent anything to try to prove that this guy knows it all when he is full of crap. This is Dean trying to foist his personal conservatism on the world.

Sorry, more of Deans almost fundie like desire to moralize for everyone else.

[MercutioATC]

17. Show me the FDA study on the medical use of marijuana...

...as compared to currently available legal synthetics (or other regimens) that suggests that marijuana is better and I'll agree with you.

What's so difficult to understand here? Marijuana is an illegal substance in this country. Like it or not, that's a fact. WHY would you take issue with somebody that essentially says "I'm not in favor, generally, of allowing the use of illegal substances for medical treatments when we have a host of legal treatments, but I AM open to no information and if the FDA says that the illegal substance IS, in fact, more effective, I'll support its medical use."?

[Mairead]

19. Do please think about what you're saying

The use of mj is illegal in the US not because of any natural characteristic but because of decisions by men. Racist decisions.

Laws are human decisions, nothing more. Humans take them, humans can reverse them.

When you talk as though legalising mj would be like repealing the law of gravity, you only make yourself seem a desperately shallow and conventional thinker. Or someone with an agenda he can't justify on any rational grounds (which is, I think, the actual case).

[DrGonzoLives]

22. And you fail to realize

that such an FDA study might be what is needed to convince a large number of people and legislators that legalizing marijuana is a good thing.

No, no, just keep beating your head against the wall, that's much better...

[Forkboy]

23. Well,someone here seems to have an agenda

but we seem to disagree on who.

[MercutioATC]

24. I'M not the one clamoring about drug laws being "racist"

And I have thought about what I'm saying. Legalizing marijuana is NOT the topic here. I never said that it would be like "repealing the law of gravity", I stated that the issue being discussed here was the near-term goal of some to legalize the medical use of marijuana. There are many that would not approve of legalizing marijuana but would feel comfortable with its medicinal use if it was proven that it worked better than other available, legal alternatives. If the FDA finds this to be true, Dean would support its medical use.

I fail to see the logical breach in that argument. I DO, see you continue to attempt to turn this into a discussion on legalizing marijuana. THAT'S an agenda if I've ever seen one...