St. Pete Times: "Democrat (Dean) laces up a liberal exterior"

[seafan]

I thought I had some understanding of Dean's positions before this, but this article of July 6, 2003 has me totally gurflummoxed...


Quote---

BURLINGTON, Vt. - Pausing from hawking his organic beets and strawberries, David Zuckerman grinned when asked about the new hero of liberals across the nation.

"Most Vermonters I know chuckle about Howard Dean as the most liberal presidential candidate," said Zuckerman, a pony-tailed farmer and Vermont state legislator.

Customer Laura Brown, after unfavorably comparing President Bush's I.Q. to one of Zuckerman's beets, recalled the fiery, populist speech Dean had given to announce his candidacy recently in Burlington.

"He sure wasn't giving those kinds of speeches as governor," said Brown, a professional herbologist. "Howard Dean's a different creature than when he was here."

In the capital of Ben and Jerry's and Birkenstocks, Vermonters are a tad perplexed as their former governor makes big waves in the Democratic presidential race. At times they don't recognize him.

The fellow delivering stemwinders that bring roaring crowds to their feet was known in Vermont for dull speeches. The darling of liberal activists nationally repeatedly snubbed the left wing of his party during nearly 12 years as Vermont governor. He rails against President Bush's tax cuts, but in Vermont he twice fought for state tax cuts and repeatedly bashed Democratic spending plans as irresponsible.

"The joke among a lot of Vermont Republicans was that they didn't need to run anyone for governor because they basically had one in office already," said Harlan Sylvester, a conservative Democratic stockbroker and longtime adviser to Dean.

---End Quote

http://www.sptimes.com/2003/07/06/Worldandnation/Democrat_laces_up_a_l.shtml

[xchrom]

1. as long as he performs like a liberal

if he becomes president and confronts the corporatist element in the dem leadership, i will be satisfied.

[liberalmike27]

2. Hard to Tell

With the media it is hard to tell what is up. Some say he's too far left, some to the right.
We need someone in office to balance the budget anyway, and there are a few social issues he is liberal on.

[trumad]

3. The media certainly is stitttttzoid when it comes to Howard..

A pony-tailed Beet farmer...snarf!

[blm]

4. Some people are choosing to believe the last 7 months

instead of the previous 11 YEARS. He never FOUGHT for any progressive programs, and instead aligned with the GOP on most issues during that time.

[DrGonzoLives]

14. So people can't change?

Evidently not...I guess that means more pro-war policies from Kerry if he gets elected?

[DrFunkenstein]

17. And you call yourself a doctor!

Yeah, Kerry is really pro-war, saying over and over again that we go to war because we have to, not because we want to. Dean and Kerry's positions on Iraq were virtually identical, except Dean kept calling himself the anti-war candidate until he built up enough support to start calling himself a centrist.

[blm]

23. Sure people can change....

As soon as the antiwar movement grows and liberal $$$ flow and moves them further left. A consistent, 17 year liberal record means NOTHING...you're certain Kerry is now Bushlite. An 11 year record of compromising centrism and aligning with the GOP means NOTHING...now you're certain Dean is a fighting progressive.

[clar]

5. Zuckerman's a good guy

He's a progressive (one of several in the VT legislature). This article is actually pretty accurate. Dean was not known as a liberal here, but what one has to take into account is that Vermont is more liberal than most other states. I'm sure that most conservatives would consider our new republican governor, Jim Douglas, a liberal. (He just supported raising the minimum raise, he's pro-choice). It's certainly true that Dean was never known for his oratory skills during his tenure. His positions haven't changed significantly since he started his run for the presidency, and I'm not surprised by his opposition to the war. He never struck me as a guy who bought ideas wholesale. As Trippi says, he's a tough guy to pigeon hole.

[CMT]

6. Dean is not running as the most liberal candidate

He is clear that he is for fiscal responsibility and balancing the budget. The press wants to interpet it the way they want to--they want to label him a leftist because of his opposition to the war. He has liberal positions and he has moderate positions.

[Ellen Forradalom]

7. Having seen the good a balanced budget can do...

I want the candidate who makes that a priority. Also, I want a candidate who is willing to take a swing at the Bushies. That's mostly what I ask.

That said, I am concerned about the paucity of detail on the issues at his website. Kerry and Kucinich spell out their positions on their sites.

[Stoic]

8. Dean has never pretended to be other than what he is.

It's the media and political establishment that has tried to buttonhole him into rigid catagories. Dean is a moderate to left pragmatist who supports the environment, reproductive rights, gender rights, etc. He's taken a PRINCIPLED stand against the Iraq war when half the Democratic party, people who appear on paper to be more "liberal" than he, failed the test. He also admits that the process of running for president and the people he has met have shaped him in ways he hadn't expected. This is a man who LISTENS to the average voter and is deeply concerned about their lives. You can tell EXACTLY where he stands and the positions he's taken. No need to wonder where's he's going to be at any given time depending on the whim of the powers-that-be. Dean is brash, rough-around-the-edges and, like a young boxer, still learning the craft , but, dammit, he fights and he fights for us. And, if for no other reason that he's going to teach the Democratic Party what it means to stand up against the bullyboy Republicans, I support him all the way.

[Nazgul35]

9. Has any events or circumstances changed...

from the time Dean was governor and now?

Hmmmm....lemme think....Dean was governor during the best economic times in our nations history...now he is running ofr President when the current occupant has created record deficits, undermined civil liberties, divided the nation, turned world opinion against us, and involved US troops in TWO GROUND WARS IN ASIA...

so the battles we have now are not the battles we had then!

At least Dean and Kucinich are paying attention enough to be pissed off!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

that might explain why he's delivering more moving speeches...Clinton wasnt screwing up the country like Pres. Sock Puppet is...

[AmericanErrorist]

10. One thing they got wrong

(Dean)... overwhelmingly won a recent Internet contest of liberal voters.

if they are refering the MoveOn.org primary, Dean won a pluarity of the votes, not enough for MoveOn to declare a winner.

[Orangepeel]

11. "overwhelming" is open to interpretation

It is true that he didn't win a majority, but over 40% in a field of nine can legitimately be called overwhelming.

[pansypoo53219]

12. this is good

the MW will not be able to put him in hole. He's this and only this.
shoot, they might actually have to do their JOBS.

[Larkspur]

13. Howard Dean left Vermont in better shape when he left office than

Bush did Texas.

Unlike Kerry, Lieberman, Edwards, and Graham, Dean went among us folks and listened to what we were saying. He tapped into that anger and is now channeling it into a powerful force to restore our democracy. None of the other candidates have figured that out. They're too busy dreaming about being in the White House. Kucinich is copying Dean, but he doesn't seem to understand Dean's overall strategy.

It's Dean's and Trippi's ability to channel the rage of voters into constructive nonviolent political actions that wins my admiriation of the Dean campaign. I chose Dean back in April, primarily because of his stance on the Iraq War and because I want Prez nominee who will fight for me, not cave in to Bush.

[DrGonzoLives]

15. Ah, but, say the Anyone-But-Dean crusaders

The only thing that matters is that he's not liberal enough for them, and took moderate stances in the past. That means he's utterly, completely worthless as a human being.

[blm]

No...it means he enjoyed a great Clinton economy.

And kept a balanced budget.

[kwolf68]

16. The truth will soon get out

That Howard Dean is the biggest fraud in this election.

These passionate Dean supporters are simply projecting onto him what kind of leader he could be and what kind of principles and stands they wish him to take.

At the end of the day, if he HAD been in the goddamn Skull and Bones YET STILL was for some federal gun control, was against the death penalty in totality and was a strong advocate for the environment and actually fought for said issues then I would support him.

Dean is the paper tiger of the Democratic Party.

[DrFunkenstein]

18. Kerry On Corporate Subsidies

The special interests will stop at nothing to keep their special deals. That’s why I’ve joined John McCain in calling for a “Corporate Subsidy Reform Commission” modeled after the military base-closing commission. A bipartisan group would recommend corporate subsidies to be eliminated and Congress would have to vote up or down on the entire package.

It’s the only way to stop the games that go on in Washington. When I first came to the Senate, each year millions upon millions of dollars were lavished on a wool and mohair subsidy cooked up during WWI to make sure we’d have plenty of wool and mohair for our soldiers’ uniforms. But even after we stopped making our uniforms out of wool and mohair, the subsidy continued. I came to the Senate floor again and again - finally we killed it. Or we thought we did. Last year it came back. This kind of wasteful, no-growth, special interest giveaway is alive and well -- again. But it’s just the tip of the iceberg.

We were presented a defense bill that gave away $250,000 to an Illinois firm to research caffeinated chewing gum; $750,000 for grasshopper research in Alaska; $250,000 for a lettuce geneticist in Salinas, California and $64,000 for urban pest research in Georgia. This is our defense budget?

By eliminating these expenditures would you balance the budget? No. But that’s not the point. The point is that no politician can - with credibility - tell you he’s ‘fiscally responsible’ if he stays silent while these games are played. Is wasteful spending a tiny part of the budget? Yes. But it’s far more than most working people will ever see in their lives and invested in choices that do matter -- that do grow our economy -- it can make a world of difference.

It’s a question of choices. The Fossil Energy Research and Development program spends more than $400 million on R&D for oil companies who can afford their own R&D- and even duplicates research they’re already engaged in. And for 130 years the Federal government has allowed companies to mine on publicly owned lands for free, in addition to letting them buy those lands way below market price -- $5 an acre or less. If we simply required small, fair royalties and eliminated the giveaway of public lands we could save another $519 million over 5 years.

[DrFunkenstein]

19. Kerry On Tax Loopholes

Just think - offshore tax havens and shelters enable corporations and
executives to evade an estimated $70 billion in taxes each year. How can anyone in this country suggest we have a fair system when companies can take $70 billion off the table? That undermines the very essence of our government.

It’s a system only companies like Enron could love. And did they ever. Enron held over 800 subsidiaries in countries with no taxes on income, profits, or capital gains -- 692 in the Cayman Islands alone. I believe in opening new markets and I want American companies to win. But I know we can distinguish between legitimate businesses and sham transactions. Assets in offshore entities have climbed from an estimated $200 billion in 1983, to an estimated $5 trillion today - and too many are brass plate addresses with a fax machine in an offshore tax haven.

What does that say to the vast majority of Americans who actually pay taxes? And the silence from this Administration speaks volumes! They’ve dragged their feet and fought every attempt to crack down on corporate loopholes. It’s time we stood up and insisted on real reform and real tax fairness.

[DrFunkenstein]

20. On The Back Cover of "Pigs At The Trough"

Arianna Huffington has always been willing to speak and write with conviction about the world around her. Her sharp wit and thoughtful commentary help put issues on the agenda ignored by conventional thinkers. I'm certain, that with her powerful new book, Arianna Huffington will be stirring the waters for some time to come.

- Senator John Kerry

[DrFunkenstein]

21. On The Bush Tax Cuts

How can anyone reasonably suggest to our fellow Americans that the way to get the economy moving today is to cut taxes 8 years from now?

And as for fairness, we’re not calling for redistribution - what we want is for average, middle class Americans who work hard to be able to get ahead just like their parents did. 20 years ago, the average CEO made 42 times what the average worker made. Now it’s 531 times more. It’s out of whack. Yet 40 percent of Bush’s tax giveaway goes to that very top 1 percent. I think that’s an attack on the fundamental fairness that holds this country together.

And perhaps most outrageous if the violation of generational responsibility -- The largest cost of the Bush tax giveaway will not be born by any of us here today - it will be paid for by our children. That’s right - we’re borrowing from Social Security and Medicare to put money in some peoples’ pockets today - and sticking our children with the bill.

We need to repeat the truth again and again. The new Bush tax cuts are unfair, unaffordable and unquestionably ineffective in growing our economy -- because they come at the expense of choices we need to make now so more Americans can enjoy greater wealth and a higher quality of life later.

Because of those cuts this Administration is clinging to, there are riorities going completely ignored - all of which make a difference in the quality of our lives - education, health care, transportation, our environment.

So our task is to get our economy moving again now. To create jobs and raise incomes... to grow out of the deficit... and to meet our needs.

[DrFunkenstein]

22. On Job Creation

I propose a new job creation tax credit to encourage employers to start hiring and raising wages again. This tax credit would give a 1-time break from the payroll tax for every new job and for any raise given to an existing employee. It would benefit every business, from the smallest Mom and Pop shop to the largest employer. Most importantly - it would start creating jobs now.

And to encourage investments in the jobs of the future - I think we should excite the capital markets by eliminating the tax on capital gains for investments in critical technology companies - zero capital gains on $100 million issuance of stock if it’s held for 5 years and has created real jobs. And we should encourage the measurement of the real value of companies by ending the double taxation of dividends.

You know politicians are always talking about the importance of small
business. How they create 90% of the jobs and are the engine of job
creation. I say it’s time we did something to really help them.

During this credit crunch, we should let every rapidly growing small
business defer up to $250,000 of federal taxes if they are reinvested in the business. I can think of no better single idea to stimulate the economy - it would create more than 600,000 jobs within three years at little cost to the Treasury.

[DrFunkenstein]

24. I Think I HiJacked The Thread...I'll Take This Elsewhere (Sorry)

Kinda off-topic.

[blm]

25. Why don't you give it a separate thread?

Many people assume they know a candidate by the attacks leveled against them by their opponents. None in their fair, right mind could call Kerry, "Bushlite."