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ISSUES: Health Care--who has the best plan?

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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 08:33 AM
Original message
ISSUES: Health Care--who has the best plan?
Specifically;

!. Whose plan will offer health care to the most Americans (not just children, but adults as well--I've read their websites!), and why?

2. Whose plan has the best chance of being adopted in his first term, and why?

3. Whose plan is most cost-effective and workable, and why?

Sell me, gang, AZ primaries are 2 weeks away and I need answers!

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lovedems Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 09:16 AM
Response to Original message
1. Did you watch the debate last night? This is going to sound silly
but besides DK (who wants to decrease the pentagon budget and put that money towards healthcare, which he says we are paying for now and not getting, and pre-K education) Leiberman had what sounded like a pretty good plan. He wants "medikids" and kids will be covered by insurance from birth to age 25. He stated if you lose your job, you will not lose your health insurance (as you are older). He also thought the only way to get pharmeceutical companies to lower their prices and treat the american consumer fairly was to speak with money and allow the importation of drugs from Canada. That would wake them up and get them to think of their ridiculous prices.

One of the only things I agree with Holy Joe on but it is a reasonable plan.
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 09:32 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. Yeah, I could even vote for Joe if he were the nominee.
His plan is workable, too. I like Kucinich's the best, but it is gonna be a very hard sell against the insurance companies and pharmaceutical comapnies, and even most doctors (no more "convention" trips to Barbados from the pharmaceuticals cos!).

I like Kerry's too, buy into the same plan that Federal employees get, but I'm not convinced it will be affordable for most of us.

I'd like to see this issue be big at the convention, it';s important to me; but I doubt it will get much attention.

For me, the health care issue is a definite "what's in it for ME?" thing, as I have serious medical problems.
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Demo Gog Donating Member (119 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 09:41 AM
Response to Original message
3. Health Care
I have to agree, Joe's plan is pretty good, and probably the most reasonable. Edwards' is a close second.
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flaminbats Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-24-04 12:03 AM
Response to Reply #3
12. this seems odd coming from a big Breaux booster like you!
Edited on Sat Jan-24-04 12:13 AM by flaminbats
The two health-care proposals which most closely resemble his approach are the Kerry, Clark, and Dean plans...with the Lieberman plan resembling it the least.

http://www.ndol.org/ndol_ci.cfm?kaid=103&subid=111&cont...
http://www.johnkerry.com/issues/healthcare /
http://clark04.com/issues/healthcare /
http://www.deanforamerica.com/site/cg/index.html?type=p...
http://www.joecare.com/
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papau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 09:48 AM
Response to Original message
4. Ted Kennedy's (and "by endorsement" Kerry's?) universal Health via Ins
Edited on Fri Jan-23-04 09:49 AM by papau
and coming with the Kennedy backup that is the Federal Gov health plan, all funded by fixing the Medicare Drug bill, seems the easiest to pass if you want the most bang for a little over $100 billion.

Deans is the easiest to pass - and provides the most bang for the new dollar if you are locked into the 80 billion range.

Joe's plan is Gep light which in turn was waste a bundle on insurance companies to get something universal passed.

I'd take anything we could get - and I think Dean could get the Kennedy plan passed - I am not sure John has the spine needed. But John has rediscovered his spine in the last 3 weeks - so who knows!
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Kanary Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 06:22 PM
Response to Original message
5. Thanks for sending me over here...
from the other health thread in GD.

To answer your question....

1.... Kucinich, no doubt.... his plan is for covering *EVERYONE* I'm with you that I'm sooo very tired of hearing about all the plans for children and seniors. What am I, chopped liver?? I, also, am in dire need of good medical care.

3. Again, no doubt about it... Kucinich, because he is the only one taking the insurance companies out of the mix, and that will decrease costs MOST effectively. Most workable because it uses structure already in place... no need to reinvent the wheel.

2..... I read here someone saying DK's plan would be too hard to get across. What I want to say about that is what I see as the problem is that for so long now we have been without effective leadership... or I think I could safely say, effectively without leadership, so we have forgotten the power that a real leader can have in actually making things happen. A true leader can inspire people to Make It Happen. If you remember Kennedy, he came into office with some radical and off-the-wall ideas, yet he was so inspiring that he was able to rally enough to support to make those changes. I believe that Dennis shows that same skill and charisma that inspires and motivates people to make changes they wouldn't ordinarily consider. If you look at his track rcord, you can see that this has been the case with him.

Also, do not forget that the majority of the American people want universal one-payer care, there is an organization working to this end, and it includes something like 10,000 physicians. With a president who already has a well-formulated and workable plan and the spirit to inspire the momentum, I believe this would definitely happen. As Cleita said, it's going to depend on a groundswell push from those of us in the trenches anyway. So, with the combination of an active and committed group of people pushing from the bottom, and a president who is already there, it has had an effect on my idealism, and I think it would definitely happen.

As far as the common mantra, "I like Dennis, but he's unelectable", as he said, if you vote for him, he's electable. In any case, the more votes Dennis has, the more influence his plan will also have.

Kanary
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 07:55 PM
Response to Original message
6. Don't hit me.
We are more or less on the same page. Although I favor Dennis Kucinich's expansion of Medicare, which works very well, incidentally, to other candidate's plans, I don't think he will be able to push this plan through a Republican congress. It will get the same reception that Hillary Clinton's plan did.

Howard Dean's plan, although working more through traditional methods of health care, has worked in his home state of Vermont. In other words he was able to get something working in his conservative state. This is what counts, getting something through rather than a great plan put on the back burner. Here is a quote from his website that is interesting and that I think is the direction he wants to go in.

For a year now, I have been traveling this country advocating a repeal of Bush's tax cuts so that we can provide universal healthcare and restore fiscal discipline. Many have questioned the political wisdom of challenging the president on politically popular tax cuts.

"I believe, however, that given a choice between having health insurance or keeping all of the Bush's tax cuts in place, most Americans will choose health insurance. My plan will cost $88.3 billion -- less than half of the president's tax cut -- with money left over to pay down the deficits run up by this administration."


I realize that to make this work in the long run, the for profit HMO and health insurance industries are going to have to be cut out of the system. With a pure universal health care system this would happen and it would send up alarms in that corporate behemouth that would make things worse than they already are. So I believe Dean's plan to allow them to stay in place for awhile, but plug the gaps in health care by extending existing federal health programs for the uninsured, would keep these dragons in their lair until we can wean them off of health care for good. Then I believe the health care system can be completely federalized into a single payer system.

So this is my position. I want the person I believe can jump start this movement to be the President. I want the person who knows health care issues intimately and who else would but a doctor who once had his own family practice. Not only that, imagine a First Lady who is also a doctor in her own right. Here you really do get two for the price of one. As much as I love Dennis and his ideas, I don't think he has that intimate knowledge of how the medical system works for the battle with Congress, which will be ahead. I also feel it's easy to shove hot issues aside for other problems, but I don't think a doctor will do this when it comes to health care issues and he will keep bringing it back up for debate.

As a matter of record too, Howard Dean was the first bring up the health care issue when he was Governor. That was back when Clinton was still in office and back when no one else really wanted to talk about it. Because he kept talking about it and brought it to the forefront it forced the other candidates to come up with their own plans. It also forced Bush to come up with his prescription drug plan for seniors, too. (Thanks, but no thanks!)

Okay, now I'm ready for my chastisement.
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Kanary Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 08:25 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. No Chastisement... I don't work that way... ^_^
Edited on Fri Jan-23-04 08:26 PM by Kanary
First of all, you're the first Dean supporter I've been able to talk with without getting my head chewed off, so I appreciate that.

Thank you for answering the question I wanted to ask you on the other thread which you started (and thanks again for that!) You kept stressing that it was the insurance companies who were mucking things up, so I couldn't figure out why you were supporting Dean's program, given that he is hooked into the corporate med complex. You have, as I understand, explained that you want to see it implemented in stages. So, that is making a bit more sense to me, and I'm glad that you cleared that up.

However, of course, that would take a long time, and the costs would be higher because the companies would be getting their (large) share of the pie. I would be concerned:

1. The higher cost would encounter more opposition, especially in time.

2. The "next stage" would never come, as any successor to Dean, unless it is DK, would not have his vison.


I understand your concern that it is an issue that would be put on the "back burner" by any president except a dr, who would have a more invested reason for pursuing it. I definitely understand that concern, and I do think we've waited more than long enough. However, if you know anything about DK, you know he doesn't do "back burners. :) :) :) For a little guy, he's one heck of a bulldog. :) If that ever happened, I would have to buy you a dinner, because it would shock the heck out of me. :)

Ok, back to you.... :) And, thanks for the pleasant exchange...

Kanary
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 08:44 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Well, in the long run both will do what they can.
I do think that it's going to be a hard battle for whomever is the new Democratic President until we shift the Congressional and Judicial branches our way and get some of those souless conservatives out of office.

In the long run with you and me, as well as with blondeatlast and others interested in universal health care, this is the ultimate legislation we are working toward, no matter who is charge. Don't forget it.
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Kanary Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 08:51 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. I got your back, Cleita!
You have given me encouragement that this is something we're definitely going to push! I'm looking forward to working with you and others on this, and I think it's going to take all of us lighting fires to keep it an issue.

WE'll show 'em! :)

Kanary
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 09:18 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. You'd better believe it and it starts right at your
computer writing letters to everyone and anyone who will listen.
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flaminbats Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 11:27 PM
Response to Original message
11. here are some links for those who have not seen the websites....
http://www.ndol.org/ndol_ci.cfm?kaid=103&subid=111&cont...
http://bernie.house.gov/pc/issues/healthposition.pdf
http://www.detnews.com/2003/politics/0306/09/a05-186480...
http://www.johnkerry.com/issues/healthcare /
http://www.deanforamerica.com/site/cg/index.html?type=p...
http://clark04.com/issues/healthcare /
http://www.joecare.com /
http://sharpton2004.org/index.php?menuID=Page&pid=5
http://www.kucinich.us/issues/universalhealth.php
http://www.familiesusa.org/site/PageServer?pagename=Tes...

"Whose plan will offer health care to the most Americans (not just children, but adults as well--I've read their websites!), and why?"

I think the candidate with the best plan will be the one who can provide universal coverage, while embracing a plan with the support of those like Jim Cooper and Lincoln Chaffee.
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