What can we do to stop Wal-Mart/educate others?

[travisleit01]

Other than boycotting (which I am doing, and have urged many family members and coworkers to do), what can we do? Does anyone have some flyers we could print up and put on people's cars? Can we think of some "in-store" activism?

Let's brainstorm some ideas of how to stop this corporate monster that is ruining America. Maybe if some DUers want to work on this with me, we could have this thread moved to the Activism forum.

[LauraT28]

1. I don't know for sure but...

I actually went to

http://www.fastcompany.com/magazine/77/walmart.html

today and printed it out for my co-workers to read (warning it's 10 pages!). Long but very informative and well worth it.

Laura

[travisleit01]

2. I've seen that... it's good.

I wonder if it could be paired down into a 3-fold pamphlet (SP?) to be placed on cars at Wal-Mart. Could you get arrested for that? Or just asked to leave?

[LauraT28]

3. Good question...

I don't know! I'm sure you'd have to have permission from fastcompany.com... who knows with Wal-mart, it might be like mentioning the word "union" and then mysteriously getting a pink slip! They would probably figure out a way to have you arrested!

UGH!

Laura

[travisleit01]

5. Probably! n/t

[Silverhair]

14. Wal-Mart is PRIVATE property. You do not have the right

to pass out anything on their lot. They will take action. I know from experience. In my case I was just using the WM lot as a high traffic place to collect signatures on a political petition that had nothing to do with WM. I was politely asked to leave as they did not want to be seen as taking a side in the issue. (Local issue.)

I would think that they would react more aggressively to you passing out anti-WM material on their property.

Wal-Marts has rights too, and they do enforce their rights.

[Touchdown]

4. Get them to watch Bill Moyers Tommorrow night.

He's gonna have an expose on Hick-Mart, and what it does to our tax dollars (subsidizing food stamps for low wage earners).

It's not everything, but it's a starting point for dialogue.

[Devlzown]

6. Scare people

You can talk to most of these people about poor wages and products made in China until you're blue in the face and their eyes will just glaze over. Most people out there are selfish. They've been conditioned by our culture to be that way. To make them give up the sales at Walmart, you must make it seem somehow risky to shop there. RFID tags are a good start. Walmart has been trying for a while to get its suppliers to put RFID tags on merchandise going to their stores. These tags are tracking devices and they don't stop tracking when the merchandise leaves the store. The beauty about something like this is, you can write your flyer up from a fundie Christian point of view (mark of the beast) or a libertarian point of view (big brother). Use your imagination and use the point of view that will work on the particular area of the country you are in. Here's an link about RFID, but there are plenty more out there. http://www.thoughtcrimenews.com/rfid.htm

[Silverhair]

15. While you are at it, look up Verichip.

It is an RFID implanted into the body.

[Neshanic]

7. I posted the absurdity of a situation here in Arizona but was

ignored.

The Goodyear city council last night approved a Walmart that will be built THREE miles from one that was built 5 years ago. The "older" one, given every gimme known by my city Avondale, will probably close.

"The council then heard from Sean Lake, attorney for Wal-Mart, and Pete Canelis from Wal-Mart’s corporate office. The audience, upward of 150 people, was allowed to ask questions of the speakers during their presentations.
Subsequently, audience members who filled out speaker cards — about two dozen — were given three minutes each to address the council on the issue; about 18 exercised their opportunities.
Most of the speakers expressed concerns or objections to the proposed Wal-Mart. The primary reason cited for opposition was the store’s proposed location — at the gateway to the city’s designated civic center area and the primary road to the Estrella Mountain Ranch development.
Other reasons cited included traffic generation, the store’s big-box look, security and police-call concerns and alleged low-wage and discriminatory employment practices by Wal-Mart.
After the presentations and questioning, Cavanaugh opened up discussion of the matter to council members. Vice Mayor Dick Sousa succinctly summarized the feelings of the majority voters.
“We need the sales tax revenue … Until someone shows me how another retail project can bring $1.5 million in sales tax revenue, I have to support this,” Sousa said."

West Valley View, December 19. 2003

They make their deals with the city councils, the rest is just window dressing.

[Tansy_Gold]

8. sorry I missed your post, neshanic

I'm a fellow West Valleyite, and when I saw the headlines in yesterday's paper, it put me in a bad mood all evening.

I worked at the Avondale store when it opened. Folks, that store was built in 1997, opened in January 1998, expanded to SuperCenter a few years later. Now Wal-Mart is going to open another one three miles away. They will drive much retail competition away, unless of course people can be convinced not to shop there.

I hate to say it, but I have a hard time buying the "gateway to Estrella Ranch" complaint. Estrella Ranch is miles away. I think Verrado is actually closer to the proposed new WalMart.

However, the Goodyear City Council has chosen the quick fix of $1.5 million in sales tax revenue over the negatives, such as:

Low wage jobs that will leave many workers and their families without sufficient income to rise above poverty, while the profits from the store leave the community. Workers who are paid a living wage can then recycle their earnings into the local economy, buying goods and services from other businesses. The loss of local businesses means the loss of sales tax revenue that won't necessarily be made up by the revenue from Wal-Mart, because their low prices result in lower sales taxes.

Goodyear just experienced a rather heated city election; I suspect if public opinion remains high on this WalMart issue, there may be some council members and a mayor looking for other jobs next time around.

the west valley resident known as

Tansy Gold

[Neshanic]

11. Verrado is getting their own Walmart

In my profession, I am privy to information that usually does not get out until it is too late.

The Avondale one is too "old" for WalMart's liking. The new one in Goodyear 3 miles away will have a much more space, and a clientele of all new homeowners. The Avondale one is "difficult" to get to by their standards, that being one turn right more than two. You know the average valley person, and their utter laziness in driving.

As far as Verrado, the one that will be planned, will be very near the community on the west side of the monstrous master planned community. They Have fresh city council to take advantage of in the way of the "town"/mega city of Buckeye.

The elected officials are the key to this nightmare in Metropolitan Phoenix. It may not be the case for other places. The elected officials see tax revenue, and the WalMart guys do all the groundwork early....when all is said and done, the citizens are being told how the being built will be "architecturally enhanced".

[Nobody]

12. I heard Wal Mart is hiring

Wouldn't that be a fun thought. The City Council members who are OK with other people getting low wages and losing their small family-owned businesses having to make do on $8/hr 35 hours a week.

[OldSoldier]

17. It's sales tax shifting, not sales tax enhancement

Wal-Marts don't generate "new" sales tax revenue. Only a non-retail employer that brings people to town will generate new sales tax revenue.

Let's throw a number out: $104 million. It's a nice round number--$2 million per week. Let's say it's the total non-automotive retail base, or NARB, for your area. (I just made that term up. Most retail-base calculations include the sale of cars, but I'm leaving cars out because Wal-Mart doesn't sell cars in its Wal-Mart brand stores*.) And without a Wal-Mart, it might be spread over thirty stores.

Put a Wal-Mart into the mix, and you still have a $104 million NARB. But now it's Wal-Mart with half or three-quarters of the total, and ten stores to take up the remainder because Wal-Mart put the rest of them out of business. (A Wal-Mart that can't do a million five in one week is a Wal-Mart that will soon be welcoming a new store manager.)

Example: Wal-Mart sells a lot of ceiling fans. If I have a $100 Hunter ceiling fan (that's the cheap one), and Wal-Mart has a $50 fan that looks like my $100 Hunter, Wal-Mart is going to steal a lot of my ceiling fan business. Not all of it--anyone seriously in the market for a Hunter fan knows Wal-Mart fans are crap--but quite a bit. Let's say 500 fans a week. And let's further assume that in addition to my losing 500 fans a week, Wal-Mart manages to convince 250 people who weren't in the market for a ceiling fan that having a ceiling fan would be a good thing. Now for the only numbers a city council cares about: Wal-Mart has just shrank the market for ceiling fans by $12,500 per week. (They'll also have increased the market for $3 light fixtures, because when the Wal-Mart fan breaks down in six months to a year, they probably aren't going to replace it with another ceiling fan. "Ceiling fans are crap, let's just put a light fixture up.")

Now open a factory of some sort on the edge of town. Two things happen: people come to town to work in the factory (not all of whom will live in town, but many will), and the salaries generated by that factory will increase the NARB. If the factory has a $100 million annual payroll, you've probably got a $52 million increase in NARB. (Remember, people still have to buy cars and houses, and go to the doctor--three businesses Wal-Mart-brand stores are not in--so the NARB is probably about half of the total payroll. I made it $52 million because $1 million a week is a nice round number. )

Yes, Wal-Mart will collect $1.5 million in sales tax revenue, but the other stores in town will be collecting $1.5 million less sales tax revenue. We can also add in the property tax shifting--Wal-Mart will pay property tax on their big new store, but the stores that are put out of business by Wal-Mart will no longer pay said tax. Also consider that Wal-Mart chooses locations in part due to property tax concerns--to get the lowest rate, of course.

Meaning Wal-Mart is actually tax-neutral or tax-negative.

* We have to be careful to differentiate between Wal-Mart the company and Wal-Mart the store. You can special-order cars and manufactured housing through a Sam's Club store. The Wal-Mart-brand stores don't do special orders right now, but give them time.

[meti57b]

9. There was a three-day front page article in the Los Angeles Times......

about Walmart. It included descriptions of their driving down salaries locally and their shopping around third-world countries for even cheaper prices for making their products. The articles described the lengthy days at pennies in salary the poor people of those countries worked and earned, and described their lives under such poverty conditions.

The article was actually on the first page for each of the three days and was very descriptive and persuasive on the immorality of Walmart's business strategy and tactics.

They printed many letters to the editor on the topic and all were negative on Walmart.

So often, I can't help but be proud of our hometown paper, The Los Angeles Times .... doing the right thing for people!!

[Touchdown]

10. Since this thread fell off the first page in record time

...obviously not enough Duers care enough, or defeated too much to try anything or to work on solutions. Perhaps some feel a bit overwhelmed by the sheer size and power of WM, that to attempt a counter argument to them would be dodging at windmills.

I really can't blame anybody though. This is a complex issue, and it calls for complex thought to come to solutions.

:kick:

[Nobody]

13. I don't have internet access at work

And today I'm take to leave early, so here I am.

I like the leaflet idea. But there are SO MANY REASONS why Wal Mart is bad for the economy, bad for the nation, and historically, companies like this had anti-trust lawsuits brought against them.

We can take all of the reasons and make a leaflet about each topic and create a set. If you do leafleting, you can have a variety of topics, but only one per 1 page leaflet. Wait for this to sink in, then leaflet on another topic.

If your community is thinking about getting a Wal Mart, consider letters to the editor, letters to your city council, letters to everyone and everything in sight.

Another option is the lawsuit. Wal Mart is driving local companies out of business. If you owned one of these companies, check into anti-trust legislation and maybe you might have a case. It would be a doozy of a class-action if lots of these owners of small businesses got together.

or to take Wal Mart out of the equation completely,

pass out leaflets and hang signs and write letters to various local publications celebrating your local businesses. If you experienced great service, let the world know as you praise the business and the owners and employees in a public forum. Send the owners a copy. If you think their product is the best you've seen, boast about it in a public forum. Your local businesses can always use the free advertising about where TO go instead of hammering on Wal Mart and where NOT TO go.

[Heddi]

16. Well for our part (hubby and I)

we haven't shopped at Walmart for....five years or so.

It didn't start out as some protest against their corrupt ways--in fact, I didn't know how horrible Walmart was until I came to DU about 3 years ago.

However, our experiences at Walmart were always horrendous.

The products fell apart easily---forget about washing any clothes you buy there b/c even when following the directions on the tags, they fell apart, shrunk, had seams and hems just disentegrate...

The prices were never good, and the people that shopped there were just horrible---taking things out of your cart, pushing you around, etc.

The service was shoddy to say the least. I never enjoyed waiting in line for 45 minutes just to buy a pack of toilet paper. The store we went to never had more than 3 registers open, and they always treated you like criminals when you walked in there.

We stopped shopping there because of just the horrible way we felt when we walked in there. It's like when you walk through the door every bit of hope and aspiration is just sucked out of you. You're walking through this mass of unahppy, overworked and underpaid working poor and working middle-class.

It was a lesson in depression (sorry for the rhyme :) )

When we moved to Seattle, we finally had a Target we could go to. Much more cheery. The people that shopped at Target, as opposed to Walmart, were just different. Still working poor & middle class, but a different attitude.

I've never bought clothes from Target, but the things we get there dont' fall apart after 2 months. The prices are decent. The staff is friendly, and we never wait in line for more than 3 minutes.

When we first moved to Seattle, we went to Walmart---luckily, there's only 2 within driving range (and even those are 30 minutes away)---in SC where we used to live, there was a Walmart every 3 miles. They were blights on the landscape. HOrrible horrible store.

Anyways, when we first moved here we drove down to Walmart---it was worse than I remembered it.

It was like Kmart, and I HATE Kmart----merchandise on the floor, nearly everything was opened and out of the packages. Packages had been re-packed and sealed with scotch-tape.

People walked through the aisles like Zombies. Stray children ran through the store, parents oblivious to the hell they were causing.

we walked right out. DIdn't even get what we went in for.

And that was the LAST time we ever stepped foot into a Walmart.

----

Out here, in Seattle, it's not hard to convince people not to shop there, because most of them don't anways.

In SC, it's a bit harder. They've only recently opened a Target there, but Walmart still dominates the landscape.

My mother, for instance, is a true progressive---but she can't NOT shop at Walmart b/c target is too far away, and all the other stores are closed--where else is she supposed to go? She's working poor as well, and she can't afford to pay $1.00 more for a pack of TP at the grocery store, or $14 more for a pair of jeans at the mall.

My in-laws live in very rural Kansas. The only place they can shop for necessities is Walmart, and even that is a 3 hour drive away from them. THey go once a month---there's no where else for them to go.

I think the problem with Walmart isn't people's reluctance to do anything about the company, but it's the fact that Walmart has crushed all opposition and competition in the towns it sets down in.

In a city like Seattle, you do have choices---but in rural America, you don't. And Walmart, I believe, SPECIFICALLY sets up in small towns like that JUST so they have a dedicated base. Target's not going to open a store in a town of 10,000 people, but Walmart will.

THOSE are the people that have no choice.

The working poor have no choice. WHen all other choices have been taken away from them, their only option is shopping at Walmart. They dno't necessarily think they're getting a great deal, but where else can you buy kid's clothes for so cheap, or toilet paper or dish detergent for less than the Grocery STore.

The fact is, for those people, they can't NOT shop at Walmart. THey can't afford to. When you're raising a family of four on less than $30,000 a year, you can't afford to pay more for the same services.

The thing that needs to be done is to have other alternatives for these people---and that's a big task. Again, especially for rural America (where Walmart has the biggest hold)---what store is going to be able to open an establishment and charge less than Walmart? Very few, and very few are willing to take the risk of opening a store in a Walmart stronghold for fear of having to close down within 2 years.

[OldSoldier]

18. Wal-Mart's Sword of Damocles, and how to defeat it

In Greek mythology, Dionysus' friend Damocles played King for a Day only to discover that there was a big-ass sword hanging over his head, suspended by a horsehair.

Any town that might get a Wal-Mart is under a similar sword. If you let the Wal-Mart in, half of your town's businesses will go under. Half. At least. But if you don't let the Wal-Mart in, they buy a piece of property just outside the town's corporate limits. Wal-Mart takes over all of the businesses, but the city receives no sales tax or property tax revenues.

In my county, we have four Wal-Mart Supercenters. Four. Two are in Fayetteville, one is in Hope Mills, and the fourth in unincorporated land near the county edge. (The fourth one is an anomaly--it's actually a benefit, since now the people who live near it don't have to drive ten miles to get to the supermarket. And since it opened, the supermarket they used to drive to is still going strong.)

When Wal-Mart built the fourth one, they announced plans to put the store within the corporate limits of Fayetteville, but the city council decided three Wal-Marts were plenty. Request denied. So they built the fourth one just outside the corporate limits. (The businesses that were in place before Wal-Mart went in included two convenience stores and a junkyard, all of which are still going strong because Wal-Mart doesn't sell diesel for heavy trucks or used engines.)

The city council had the last laugh, though: after Wal-Mart built its shiny new Supercenter and spent all that money, the City Council annexed everything from the current corporate limits to the county line into the City of Fayetteville--neatly enveloping the tax-dodging Supercenter.

Worth a try, if you can pull it off.

[ArkDem]

19. But

>The city council had the last laugh, though: after Wal-Mart built its shiny new Supercenter and spent all that money, the City Council annexed everything from the current corporate limits to the county line into the City of Fayetteville--neatly enveloping the tax-dodging Supercenter.<

Weren't they originally going to build within the city limits? I don't see a last laugh here. They got exactly what they wanted, didn't htey?

[travisleit01]

20. Kick!

:kick: