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Scary Mussolini quote: 'Fascism should ... be called corporatism'

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joefree1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-03-05 04:23 PM
Original message
Scary Mussolini quote: 'Fascism should ... be called corporatism'
Edited on Thu Mar-03-05 04:27 PM by joefree1
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power."
- Benito Mussolini

I found this while searching for examples of Fascism in America on the Internet. I've notice an upsurge of intolerance since 9/11 that we ought to be watching carefully. I've just uploaded the following recent events as examples:

Nevada Democrats are decrying remarks by U.S. Rep. Jim Gibbons condemning "tree-hugging, Birkenstock-wearing, hippie, tie-dyed liberals" for their opposition to the war in Iraq.
He added it was "too damn bad we didn't buy them a ticket" to become human shields in Iraq.
For more got here:
http://www.lasvegassun.com/sunbin/stories/nevada/2005/mar/02/030210032.html

Several instructors targeted by student's posting of red stars, state code on teaching of communism
Wednesday, March 2, 2005
Santa Rosa Junior College's oak-studded campus is aflame with controversy triggered by the anonymous posting of red stars and a reference to communist indoctrination on 10 faculty office doors.
edit ...
When faculty members called a news conference to discuss the stars, McPherson came forward to acknowledge her action on behalf of the SRJC Republicans, a 75-member chapter of the California College Republicans, a statewide group.
For more got here:
http://www1.pressdemocrat.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050302/NEWS/503020303/1033/NEWS01

If you have any other examples in recent American history post them here so I can upload to the following page. I looking for examples of fascist acts by organizations or members of government as opposed to individual acts.
http://ediablo.com/FightFascism.html
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Zuni Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-03-05 04:28 PM
Response to Original message
1. you do not understand Mussolini's definition of corporatism
One of the features of his government was the corporate council, which had representatives of all of Italy's classes on it, from farmers and labor unions to fat cat tycoons and military officers. they planned the economy---it was part of Mussolini's national unity thing.

But then again, mussolini's definition of fascism changed all the time. he also said "I am fascism".

I think too many people put way to much into Mussolini's quote. It was one of his many definitions.
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joefree1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-03-05 04:38 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Ah, you know what Mussolini was thinking?
Edited on Thu Mar-03-05 04:49 PM by joefree1
... and what I am thinking?

I'm just noting that it's scary and prophetic that Musolini juxtaposed Fascism with Corporatism. Especially with today's headlines.
:scared:

on edit: he did say "merger of state and corporate power"
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Zuni Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-03-05 04:51 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. But it simply was not the same
The Corporate Council and 'Corporatism' did not mean individual businesses, or publicly traded companies.
The corporations on the council were like lobbys for their different interests. There were representatives for farmers, trade unions, bankers, factory owners, merchants---it was an attempt to create national unity and eliminate class warfare.
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HereSince1628 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-03-05 04:34 PM
Response to Original message
2. Are you quite sure that he meant corporatism as in corporation?
I am not so sure.

Mussolini also said the State was the most important entity. Citizens were only important in as much as they were folded in to the State.

I suspect he had a similar opinion of industry and corporations.

I am quite certain that today's corporations have vanishing little or no interest in the state. Today's corporate officers see their interest as building value on behalf of their investor shareholders.





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joefree1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-03-05 04:46 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. With all the talk of Enron, Diebold, Halliburton and Fox News?
:shrug:

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Zuni Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-03-05 04:48 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. exactly
In Fascism, everything is subordinate to the state and the state is ultimately the dictator itself.

Private enterprrise was expected to comply with the state. In Germany, Hitler allowed industrialists to profit as long as they made sure their interests did not come in the way of the Nazis.

If they did, their factories were nationalized and taken over by the state.
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joefree1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-03-05 05:01 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. Semantics and history
Certain multi-national companies like the ones I mentioned before are cooperating (whoops, there's that word) to promote a dictatorship by a group of people by repressing other people.

Mussolini used the word "merger." Either this was translated wrong or he was disingenuous in saying this.

Whether it fits your narrow definition of "fascism" or "corporatism" won't matter much if or when it happens.
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joefree1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-03-05 05:34 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. From my MS Word Dictionary
corporatism or corporativism n
a system of running a state using the power of organizations like businesses and trade unions that act, or purport to act, for large numbers of individuals

I'm not discussing the concept of a business corporation (I work for one) but rather the above concept of corporations that conspire to dictate Government policy.
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joefree1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-03-05 06:04 PM
Response to Original message
9. From Senator Byrd
Byrd cited Hitler's 1930s rise to power by, in part, pushing legislation through the German parliament that seemed to legitimize his ascension.

``We, unlike Nazi Germany or Mussolini's Italy, have never stopped being a nation of laws, not of men,'' Byrd said. ``But witness how men with motives and a majority can manipulate law to cruel and unjust ends.''

Byrd then quoted historian Alan Bullock, saying Hitler ``turned the law inside out and made illegality legal.''

Byrd added, ``That is what the 'nuclear option' seeks to do.''

The nuclear option is the nickname for the proposal to end filibusters of judicial nominations because of the devastating effect the plan, if enacted, would have on relations between Democrats and Republicans.
more ...
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uslatest/story/0,1282,-4838025,00.html
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joefree1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-03-05 07:24 PM
Response to Original message
10. Reconstructed Fascism
By Rev. Rich Lang
The Imperial Presidency
edit ...
Reconstructed Fascism
First and most basic is that Dominion Theology wants to replace democracy with a theocratic elite that would govern according to a very literal and peculiar interpretation of Biblical law. The disciples of Jesus are to have "dominion" over all of creation. It is the role of the Church to rule over the wicked and bring them into the obedience of faith.

In a "reconstructed society" democracy would be heresy. The division between sacred and secular would be abolished. A new insistence on conformity to moral rules would replace the pluralism we now know. The purpose of the Federal government would be to enforce morality through military and police functions. Society would be regulated by a theocratic elite: in the words of Pat Robertson: "just as the Supreme Court justices place a hand on the Bible and swear to uphold the Constitution, so they should also put a hand on the Constitution and swear to uphold the Bible."

We see this at play in the leanings of Supreme Court Justices Scalia and Thomas. Against the common assumption that we are a secular state Mr. Scalia has said (in a FIRST THINGS: May 2002 ) "government ... derives its moral authority from God. Government is the minister of God with powers to revenge, to execute wrath, including wrath by the sword."
Rev. Rich Lang is pastor of the Trinity United Methodist Church in Seattle, Washington
more ...
http://www.smirkingchimp.com/print.php?sid=15261
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