Walmart question

[Orrex]

An item is available at Walmart for $7.99. The same item, produced by the same manufacturer, with the packaging and model number, is sold at a local hobby store for $16.99.

I know that Walmart is evil incarnate (on par with IKEA, for god's sake) but someone explain to me why I should pay more than 200% for an item solely for the privilege of buying from the dank, claustrophobic, and generally unpleasant hobby retailer.

[Kali]

1. there are occasional bargains there, but beware

complacency and "convenience" (oh while I'm here getting this 7.99 item might as well get this other stuff I was going to have to go to 3 stores for...) will end up costing you

[Orrex]

3. Well...

I meant it more as a scolding of the small retailer than as an endorsement of Walmart.

I always hear that the "bargains" at Walmart aren't that great, as well as the sensible warning that you give re: ancilliary purchases while in the store.

However, at this particular hobby store, I've noticed dozens of items priced 50%, 75%, and 100% higher (or more) than at Walmart or other general retailers. What possible incentive could there be, for instance, to pay $3.79 for a 2011-series Matchbox car that costs $0.97 at KMart? Certainly it's not a matter of ambience, because the misanthropes who run the place seem pointedly irritated when customers find their way into the store.

At one point I picked up a set of precision pliers and asked "Do you know the price for these?"

"I sure don't," laughed the asshole in the smock before retreating behind the counter to stuff more french fries into his mouth.


I've worked in hobby stores, and I understand the "vibe" of such places. But it's really hard to feel bad for these merchants who are suffering in the shadow of Walmart when it seems that they go out of their way to make the shopping experience so deliberately unpleasant and off-putting. Not to mention arbitrarily expensive.

[BlueJazz]

20. Damn, Orrex....they must own the 2 hobby shops I've been going to.

Customers walk into their store and you would think someone just brought them news that
their Son, Daughter, Wife and dog had just been shot.
...and forget about asking them a question...they give you a frown and growl-out the answer like you're
a piece of shit.
I'm about ready to tell the bastards that "You have NO place being in sales and retail."

[LynneSin]

2. HEY! I like Ikea - don't make fun of the Swedish

:cry:

[Old Troop]

4. Of course Walmart buys items in such volume that they can negotiate

much lower prices with their suppliers. I have no problem with Walmart -- they provide inexpensive food and goods to people who can't afford higher priced items. They provide jobs to people who would be otherwise unemployed. I know that the jobs seldom provide benefits, but, in this economy, a job is a job. I also know that they supposedly destroy local mom and pop businesses, but I haven't seen that in my North Central MA location (which has two Walmarts). Flame away!!

[RandomThoughts]

5. Becuase Walmart does not put by that price tag the other costs.

The destruction of society and the race to the bottom of worker enslavement you also pay by that lower price.

You think in money first with that argument.

And which group is really the darker side, when they don't show you the other price you pay when buying a money cheaper item.


And I am still due beer and travel money and many experiences.

[snooper2]

6. But the car that drives to the store

has needs too, not the least of which are care and maint.

We all love to shop, but do we love to spend money?

I think the Hobby store is an anology to the CD

Sometimes we like to play 8 tracks but wish the willow tree would stop growing...

[RandomThoughts]

7. Here is the difference.

Why don't you say what you mean?

Explain that in more detail.

[Orrex]

10. But that's not the responsibility of the indivdual shopper.

If you and I and everyone we know never spent another dime at Walmart, the Walton family wouldn't even notice. We wouldn't amount to a blip on their balance sheets.

However, it would enable me to pay 10% or 20% percent more for certain items, so in effect I'm punishing myself and hoping that Walmart will notice somehow. If I had bags of discretionary cash it might not be an issue, but I can't justify paying $9 for an item that Walmart sells for $6, unless some well-meaning and society-minded individual cares to subsidize my purchases to make up the difference.

[Tikki]

8. walmart does sell proprietary items...

even under the same manufacturer's label...but with different specs.

Tikki

[Orrex]

9. I don't doubt it, but that wasn't the case this time

It's a particular item that I've bought before at other locations, identical except in price.

When I worked at a hobby store years ago, I once had a conversation with the boss that went like this:


ME: Radio Shack sells this same RC car for 40% of what we're charging.

HIM: Well, you get what you pay for.


Um... What? Do small vendors really think that people are going to pay $50 for a $20 item just for the hell of it? Or because they like the vendor?

I try to be sympathetic to small business owners, but if this idiotic attitude is pervasive among the "mom and pop" stores closed down by Walmart et al, I say good riddance to them.

[underpants]

11. "Loss leaders"

Walmart not only has the ability to demand a cost from suppliers (which is rare) they also have "Loss leaders"

Grocery stores have them too- milk and bread for instance. VCRs and DVDs are Loss leaders too - the electronics stores (including Walmart) have to carry them and no one makes any money off them.

Walmart sells Plasmas under cost too.

Notice what all of these items have in common. Where are they located? They are located where you have to walk past tons of merchandise to get to them.

Walmart makes a lot of their money on two things:
End items - the things at the end of their aisles. Manufacturers pay them to put them there (grocery stores and Target too). You see them and are more likely to buy them so Walmart not only gets paid to put them there but also eeks out 10 or 80 cents on them.

15 feet from the register-this is where Walmart cleans up. Sweatsuits for $13? It costs them total maybe $3 to get them on hangers. Gum, candy, whatever they have near the registers..... all big producers.

[Orrex]

12. I know what you're saying about loss leaders, but this wasn't such an item

Also, I used Walmart of an example of a retailer that sells it at a lower rate--the lowest local rate, as it turns out. I could have cited KMart or Target just as well, but the price there is usually $8.99 or so instead of $7.99. Still, the hobby store sells it for $16.99, which is drastically more than any other place I've seen.

Regardless of how Walmart prices its plasma tvs, this hobby store is engaged in a stupid practice and seems to rely solely on the goodwill of the customers that it works so hard to drive away from the store.

[Dyedinthewoolliberal]

14. Is the hobby store

an independent? Not a franchise but a one owner kind of thing? It might be that the hobby store has to have that park up to make any money. If WalMart buys the an item in a lot size of say 10,000 and your hobby store buys say, 100, there will HAVE to be a retail price difference or the hobby store will lose money............ I think :) :bounce:

[Orrex]

15. Yeah, it's a privately-owned standalone store

But the problem remains: regardless of the justification for the higher price, what possible incentive could there be for the customer to pay 150% or more for the same item?

[Dyedinthewoolliberal]

21. Keep the money in town?

Support someone who lives where you do? The cost of of pocket is not really the price of anything we buy, WalMart or otherwise.

[Orrex]

24. Not sure that's a tenable position, though

The small retailer is basically living on charity and good will at that point, and in that case it would be in his interest to demonstrate at least a baseline of professional courtesy to his customers.

If his policy boils down to "give me more money even though I'm an asshole" then he deserves to be run out of business by Walmart or whoever else can knock him off his perch.

[JI7]

72. Ask him if he can give you a discount , maybe even mention you saw it for the much

lower price. would you be willing to pay up to 12 dollars for it without feeling cheated ?

[underpants]

23. Yes they really need to get it down to where it isn't a matter of faith to buy from them

you are funnier than I realized

[WinkyDink]

13. Hey---Tell me why anyone buys any paper product other than at the Dollar stores?!

Napkins, paper plates, wrapping paper, gift bags, tablets,....

I also buy my computer printer photo paper there. WAAAAAY chepaer than anywhere else, and excellent quality!

[Orrex]

16. For identical products or products of equal quality, I *do* buy at Dollar Stores

The question isn't "why don't people shop at Dollar Stores?" The question is "why should someone be expected to pay more for the same item purchased elsewhere?"

[Tikki]

19. The act of accessing the quality of items seems no longer a..

priority or an art passed down by parent to child.

When you see young ones wear a piece of clothing once or twice and then
throw the item away because the seam came open or the item
shrunk or faded, and then they tell you, "Oh, well it didn't cost much so
what's the big deal?" I just cringe.

I have clothing passed down from my mother, thrift store clothing in excellent
shape and homemade items that will be collectibles.

Poor quality can be found at many retailers, but stores like walmart have this down to a science.

I guess it's a persons choice on how to spend their money...just sad to see so much of quality go the way-side.

Tikki

[GoCubsGo]

33. Just as long as the Dollar Store shoppers recognize that....

...not everything in the dollar stores is cheaper. I have seen items that the Dollar Stores sold for a buck for less than a buck elsewhere. And, for things like napkins, if one is willing to wait for a sale and has a coupon, it's possible to get them for next to nothing. I do agree about giftwrap, gift bags, and the like. Much cheaper there, except for when Target put such items on clearance.

My big gripe about the Dollar Stores is that so much of what they sell is made in China. They also sell a whole lot of cheap, and utterly useless shit. All that kiddie crap--holy cow! All that oil going into plastic JUNK. And, I can't emphasize the word "junk" enough.

[CreekDog]

66. I used to buy Smack at the Dollar Store

[Shining Jack]

70. Lol!

That's really cheap for getting stoned. :rofl:

[prolesunited]

64. I stopped using paper napkins and paper plates

That's a lot cheaper. And I probably take two months to use a roll of paper towels.

[Lucian]

17. I'd rather pay $7.99 for the item at Walmart than $16.99 at the hobby store.

Easy choice.

[madmom]

18. Our local mom&pop store goes to walmart to stock his shelves. He buys what's

on sale takes it home and marks it up at least 200%. I know this because I've seen him do it. So why should I not buy from walmart to start with?

[dixiegrrrrl]

53. He is not the only one.

I have run into many local store owners of one sort or the other who buy large lots of an item to mark up in their own store.

[LiberalAndProud]

22. Generally speaking, the independent retailer will be paying higher wholesale prices

from his standard suppliers than you can go purchase the item retail from the big box stores. Odds are good that the independent will stock up at the big box stores himself.

There's no way to win the price war, so no sense in trying. The manager would surely be thankful if you'd tell him about the french fry eating clerk, because the only stage for competition is in the customer service arena.

[Orrex]

25. I'm sorry to say that the french fry guy might actually be the owner

I don't know what the management structure is like in that place, but this guy has been there every time I've gone in. Even if he's not management, then he takes care of a lot of shift-hours. And fries.

[Mopar151]

26. Your local guy should give you SOME reason to shop there

If not price, then service and knowledge. I go thru similar stuff with auto parts - but I expect customer service in a service business!
It goes both ways, around here - that's why appliances come from the local guy (lower net price, better service & delivery), but wood comes from Lowe's.
Wally World's new store layouts, selection (less) and increased prices have me back at the local chain for groceries.

[Orrex]

27. My suspicion is that most hobby stores are facades to let the owners play with their trains

In many cases they do train & RC repairs, and they feature a baffling range of arcane and super-expensive train components, but these aren't actually meant for sale. They're on the shelves because the owners like to have them there.

So if somebody accidentally buys a standard pack of Bicycle playing cards for $9.49, so much the better. But it's also an annoyance, because it keeps the proprietor from tinkering with his Lionels.

You're exactly right, though. It's a service industry as much as a sales industry, so at least a minimum of service (and professional courtesy) is to be expected.

Good point about buying wood at Lowe's, too. I once made the mistake of buying from a local seller, and there wasn't a straight 2x4 on the lot, nor could I find more than two or three that weren't cracked from end to end. And they charged more per board-foot than Lowe's!

[Duer 157099]

28. It's simple. Would you miss the hobby store if it disappeared?

If so, buy from them. If not, don't.

Simple.

Because your choice will have that effect.

[Orrex]

31. My choice is directly predicated on the owner's choice

That is, he has chosen to charge way too much and he's chosen to act like an asshole; he makes those choices every single day. If his store fails, it won't be because I opted to pay full retail rather than 2X full retail; it'll be because he did a terrible of managing his business.

[Duer 157099]

34. Even so, the question is valid

Would you miss the store if it disappeared? If not, there is no dilemma.

[Orrex]

39. I would miss it for the occasional convenience of the few items I buy there

But no, it's not a dilemma for me.

Rather, I was addressing the larger point about the unquestioned evil of Walmart coupled with the shameful failure of the customer to patronize small retailers. It's a two-way transaction; if the small retailer doesn't earn the business (through service, price, etc.), then the customer is under no obligation to give it.

[Duer 157099]

43. And I agree with you.

The way I approach the same issue in my own town is by asking myself the question of how much I would miss a certain business. If the answer is a lot, then I patronize them, even though their prices are higher.

[Orrex]

46. If you don't stop agreeing with me I'm going to totally kick your ass.

Oh, wait a minute...

[Taitertots]

37. What an economic fantasy world you live in

I'd LOL but it is just too sad that people are so ignorant and lacking in critical thinking.

He chose to allow Walmart to manipulate suppliers into charging much higher prices to Walmart's competitors.
He chose to have Walmart sell their highest margin products at a loss to put them out of business.
He chose to have unfavorable diseconomies of scale which favor Walmart.
He chose to have Walmart receive favorable tax status.
He chose to have Walmart come in with wages so low he can't keep workers and everyone else can't afford his product.


Do you really think they chose to have 2x the prices to be an asshole?

[Orrex]

38. Where did I say that he chose any of those things? Obviously, I didn't.

That's your LOL fantasy world, apparently.

Instead, he chose to set his price as he did, and he chose to act like an asshole to the customers who come through his door. Full stop.

If he can't be competitive on those items that other stores sell for 50% of his price, then he shouldn't try to sell them. Or, at any rate, he shouldn't expect anyone to buy them, especially when he acts like an asshole.

Do you really think they chose to have 2x the prices to be an asshole?

I didn't make that claim anywhere in what I've posted. Again with your fantasy world.

Instead, I claimed (rightly) that he charges 2x the price and he acts like an asshole. This one-two combination is a self-inflicted knockout blow to many small retailers.

Explain to me how that's the customer's fault?

[Taitertots]

41. What a fantasy world indeed

The fantasy is that you think they could lower the prices. A fantasy world where the objective realities of the situation don't exist. They can't bring the prices lower and that is why Walmart can and does run them out of business.

[Orrex]

42. In terms of the transaction at hand, there are two relevant objective realities

1. He's charging 2x what other retailers are charging.
2. He's acting like an asshole to his customers.

So let me ask you again: do you go out of your way to pay 200% of the retail price simply for the privilege of buying from an asshole?

If not, then what exactly are you complaining about?

They can't bring the prices lower and that is why Walmart can and does run them out of business.

If they can't bring the prices lower for that item, then maybe they shouldn't sell that item. If they can't offer a competitive price, product, or service, then that's not the fault of the customer. At the very least, the small retailer should figure out how to plaster a smile on his face so that he doesn't seem as though he resents the customers who--in spite of the all contrary pressures--actually venture into the store.

[Taitertots]

44. Yes, the objective reality that they can't charge the same prices as Walmart

1. There is nothing that can be done about this. There are inescapable economic realities that prevent it from happening.

2. Everything I have ever experienced makes me believe Walmart customer service is totally crappy. Your anecdote is unverifiable, unsupported, and can't be used to draw wider comparisons. Do you have any objective analysis that shows that Walmart service is in anyway better.

[Orrex]

45. Others in this thread have cited similar experience in hobby stores

Beyond that, I have never been scowled at by any Walmart employee. Additionally, I have never seen a Walmart employee laugh at a customer and then stuff a fistful of french fries into his mouth while pointedly shitting all over any concept of customer service.

The hobby store employee did this exactly as I described in the previous post. So unless you're calling me a liar (in which case I invite you review the TOS), then you really need to figure out what it is that you're trying to say.

Yes, the objective reality that they can't charge the same prices as Walmart 1. There is nothing that can be done about this. There are inescapable economic realities that prevent it from happening.

Yet you somehow feel justified in blaming me for failing to prop up the misanthrope who owns the hobby store?


Got it. :eyes:

[jmowreader]

62. What makes you think Walmart has "crappy" customer service?

It is my experience that most big-box stores have no customer service whatsoever. Those places have two kinds of employees: people who are capable of taking a box out of the stockroom, finding the place on the shelf where the product in the box is displayed, and moving the product from the box to the shelf; and people who can run a cash register.

You shop at locally owned stores because the staff is expert with the products, and because a locally-owned store can have weird old crap sitting there that a chain store would clearance out the second it stopped selling as fast as Corporate wants it to. Neither is a reason to substitute assholery by paying twice what Walmart charges.

[CreekDog]

68. If he can get you to buy it for twice the price while being an asshole

does that make him better than you? :D

[Orrex]

71. Well, he'd still be an asshol, and then I'd be a fool

Of course, I didn't buy it at that price, so whether or not I'm a fool has nothing to do with that particular transaction!

[CreekDog]

67. well, he doesn't like you either

[TreasonousBastard]

29. What's often forgotten about these mom&pop operations...

is that not all that many of them are good at what they do. Curiously, the ones that are very good at it often tend to wind up as large chains eventually selling to larger chains.

Mom&Pops often treat their workers at least as badly as Wal-Mart or Target, sometimes worse-- paying them little, having no benefits at all, and no "career path" with raises and promotions.

Small retailers do work with the odds against them-- pricing and availability of goods is no where near what the big guys get. They have to find a niche and work with it. Keeping retail as a smaller part of the business is often a large part of the business plan.

(And to repeat a rant-- Amazon has probably put more little guys out of business than Wal-Mart, Target, and B&N combined, but nobody seems to mind that. Now they're putting a hurt on some big guys and a lot of local stores, big and little, will be boarded up thanks to them. But that's OK, I guess))

[suninvited]

35. I worked for a small Mom and Pop

a drugstore that was literally run by thieves. After years of not shopping at Walmart because I always heard what they did to the little guys, I had a real eye opener when I worked for a little guy.

The drugstore I worked at was big enough in the little town I was in to have a big hand in successfully keeping Walmart out of the town. The town did get a Fred's but they would not allow them to open a pharmacy.

[Taitertots]

30. The extra $9 is the cost of a functional society

A reasonable wage for the owner, workers, and suppliers. A society that isn't crippled with systemic accelerating inequality.

[Orrex]

32. That's fine on paper, but when it comes down to dollars and sense, it doesn't hold up

That is, if I have to make actual, hard choices about money management each week, and if I'm saving up to buy that item for my son's birthday (for instance), then arguments about the over-priced retailer's long term sustainability are basically irrelevant to me.

Saying that the lower-income consumer should pay more in this fashion is essentially saying that the lower-income consumer should voluntarily submit to a higher de facto tax rate.

[Taitertots]

36. Is your only concern your consumption?

Too bad, maybe your children will have to learn that you love them without conspicuous consumption.

Sounds sickeningly selfish that trinkets for your children are worth more to you than the health of the society you live in.

[Orrex]

40. Do you go out of your way to buy everything from small retailers at 200% markup?

If not, then you have no basis for criticizing me on this issue.

Sounds sickeningly selfish that trinkets for your children are worth more to you than the health of the society you live in.

Stuff it up your self-righteousness, friend. It's his birthday--do I have your permission to buy him a trinket once a year? Or do I need to adorn him in Dickensian waif-wear so that we can portray our poverty in a way that satisfies your expectations?


The consumer with $1000 annual discretionary income is not the villain here. If you can't see that, then you're a bigger pox on society than Walmart is.

[TreasonousBastard]

49. Snarf!

[CreekDog]

69. I understand your point

but no one person could be a bigger pox on society than Wal Mart.

even a really, really, really bad person.

[TreasonousBastard]

48. You're gonna have to dig real deep to justify that line of horseshit...

I'm well aware of WallyWorld demanding suppler price cuts every other year (maybe every year now) and got hit with AT&T once telling me that I should sell to them at slightly below cost and make it up on my smaller customers.

But, that hasn't stopped billions being made by niche operators and others who managed to get around that crap. Go ahead and try to make the case that minimum wage workers in the local deli or bodega have it better than WalMart's wage slaves while you're making the case that the marginal living made by that deli owner is the foundation of our economy.

[Taitertots]

59. The "Marginal living" made by business owners is the foundation of our economy

The minimum wage workers at local stores are at least no worse off than at Walmart.

[YellowRubberDuckie]

47. Walmart buys on a gargantuan bulk scale.

Individual stores can't. That's why.

[Orrex]

50. That point has been made a few times in the thread already

It explains why Walmart is able to charge less. It doesn't explain why the customer should pay more. Ultimately, that's the issue I'm trying to address here.

[YellowRubberDuckie]

51. I don't think you should pay more.

And anyone here who makes you feel guilty for it has either never been poor or is just not as smart as they think they are. Shop where you can and want to. That is your right.

[Orrex]

52. Ah! I see that we're on the same page after all.

:hi:

[YellowRubberDuckie]

54. I have a habit of not finishing a thought and thinking I did.

I'm a Target freak, but I'm going to get stoned for that. I know who they donate to. We don't have a Costco's here, and Target is lesser evil than Walmart and Sam's.
Shop where you want, where you need to. This place gets a little snooty sometimes. Wanna piss off the Walmart haters? Remind them that every time they smoke they are giving money to the Republicans. :evilgrin:

[ohheckyeah]

56. I absolutely agree with you.

My husband went to the convenience store that is 5 miles from our house to purchase nasal spray as I had come down with a killer cold and couldn't breathe. $7.99 was the price on the box. Dollar General Store had nasal spray with the same ingredients for $1.50. Now, I understand you pay more at a convenience store and it's a mom and pop deal and had they charged $3.00 or even $5.00 he probably would have saved himself the extra 7 miles to the Dollar General Store, but $7.99? I don't think so.

The veggie burgers my husband eats are $4.00 at Krogers and $2.49 at Walmart. Why would we pay $1.51 more at Krogers? It's not like it's a mom and pop operation.

[quakerboy]

55. The third choice

Get on Ebay and buy it directly from china. Often enough cheaper than either, plus it comes to your door, and the USPS get their cut.

[dimbear]

57. The only possible solution: legislation forcing wholesalers to

charge no more than rational markups on small lots. Prices which reflect their cost to ship small lots. I'm sure the Republicans would be enthusiastic. (sarcasm)

[Orrex]

60. IMO your suggestion is actually on the right track

Too often I see posts here on DU attacking people who buy at Walmart, as if you or I will change the multi-billion-dollar giant's practices simply by purchasing our toilet paper at the local retailer. In point of fact, the individual--even a great many individuals acting in concert--are powerless to change massive problems like this. The actions of a thousand customers will be invisible, but legislation could fix the problem at its source.

[old mark]

58. Orrex, I can't- our Walmart even has great produce -we shop there several times a week...

I joke that I am spending my retirement at Walmart.



mark

[Dr Morbius]

61. Here's a crazy idea: eschew the both of them.

Most likely, you can live quite well without that $7.99 item anyway.

If I go to Wal-Mart once a year, it's too often. I don't matter to them as a customer; they have numbers on their side so none of us, individually, matter to them one bit. That said, I went there recently needing workpants on the cheap - and got $11.50 jeans. But I hated myself afterwards.

[WildEyedLiberal]

63. Why support an asshole?

If a business owner wants your business, they have to earn it. I don't see a damn thing that the hobby shop owner has done to earn your business. His prices are outrageous AND he's not friendly, helpful, or appreciative of your business? Why reward him?

I am all for supporting local business IF they significantly add to the community. Most of the time, they do. I'll pay a little more to buy an item at a friendly or well-stocked independent retailer, or eschew my B&N member discount to buy a book at an independent bookseller if I really enjoy their vibe. But supporting a sullen asshole who couldn't care less that you're shopping in his store and giving him business? Pass.

Walmart sucks but every odd now and then they have something WAY cheaper than anyone else. Those aren't the products that Walmart makes money on, anyway, so I don't feel too bad about buying them there. I don't shop there often, but I'd be a hypocrite and a liar if I stuck my nose in the air about it.

[begin_within]

65. Because, when you shop at Walmart, you support everything that is wrong about capitalism.

Best I can come up with in a single sentence.

[LanternWaste]

73. I imagine it simply boils down to

I imagine it simply boils down to which direction you want your money going to, and what type of work ethics that money will further enable.