I can tell every one of you what will happen after you die

[Taverner]

Basically, when your body gives out, your brain goes on for a minute or two. All of the synapses connecting for one last time. This all happens in milliseconds - after all, this info is traveling as fast as the speed of light.

You go into a 'dream' state, which is your brain shutting down and turning off the lights.

You might 'see your life before your eyes' or you might see yourself being rescued, only to fade into obscurity.

Dreams are crazy things - but the last thing you 'see' will be a dream.

Dreams can last years in your mind. I've had dreams that felt as if they lasted a hundred years. I've had dreams that lasted 5 seconds, only to find the alarm going off.

-----------------------------------------

So the 'Afterlife' will be your own mind.

Make sure you are at peace with it

[Taverner]

1. Granted - this is only if your brain survives death...

[Duer 157099]

2. You know what I have always wondered about?

And this is really macabre.

When someone is beheaded, those seconds before the brain shuts off, what must they be thinking?

No joke, I think about this.

[Taverner]

3. They go into a dream state

I swear, France should have studied this in the last days of the Guillotine

[Duer 157099]

4. No, I'm talking about the moments BEFORE that might happen

The brain doesn't die instantaneously when the spinal cord is severed. The cells will still have enough oxygen to continue to function for some period of time.

And during that time, the head is severed from the body and can possibly even see the body.

That just creeps me out more than almost anything else.

[Taverner]

6. Yes, but that's the kind of vision that most brains would protect themselves from

That same kind of 'protection' that happens when they are raped by a member of their family, or when they are falling from a building (Jumpers who lived said that their mind started going into a fantasy once they jumped and started witnessing reality for what it was)

So who knows?

As long as your brain survives long enough, it will start going into some hallucinations. Lack of oxygen will only help this.

[foxfeet]

45. Scroll down to the section entitled, "Living Heads."

It's not reassuring.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guillotine

[Taverner]

48. Ew

[Dr Morbius]

When I was a little kid, perhaps 10, my older brother brought me this question.

"What would your brain think for those few seconds while it is dying?"

And my answer was, "Oh, well."

Never did get the thought out of my head. I frankly suspect that there would be so much shock to the system that one wouldn't think anything, really. Just kind of an "Ow! Ow! Ow!" and then nothing.

[Taverner]

8. "Ow ow ow ow...Oh well"

That pretty much sums it up - you hit the nail on the head

[MorningGlow]

5. But how do you KNOW?

:shrug:

I don't doubt that what you've described is what happens as your brain is shutting down, but for those of us who believe that people have souls that continue on after the physical body ceases to function, that doesn't explain what happens after THAT.

So your certainty and omiscience is fine, but only up to a point.

[Taverner]

7. I do not know absolutely

And I do know if your brain is smashed you're GONE. Done. Over.

I do not believe in the soul - give me evidence and I might change my mind, however.

Evidence has changed my mind on many occasions.

[MorningGlow]

10. Hmm. I believe the opposite.

And neither one of us can prove the other is correct. You can state your beliefs with the utmost certainty, and I will disagree with the utmost certainty. So now what?

[Taverner]

11. Now? Now we have root beer floats!

I have never met a human being who doesn't like root beer floats

[Taverner]

13. One other thought I had: Maybe the finale was MEANT to stimulate this kind of discussion

Which is a good thing, IMO

[MorningGlow]

17. I was thinking the same thing

Ha! We agree! (And yes I like root beer floats too. Can I have them in the Otherworld? :evilgrin: )

[Taverner]

19. So what do you think happens when you die, in this world? nt

[MorningGlow]

21. Oh, I'm not questioning what you described--I understand that

About the hallucinations and such. I just think something happens after THAT, if you know what I mean.

[Taverner]

22. Ah, so after that, what do you think happens?

My thoughts: nothing

Granted I am a born again Agnostic

[MorningGlow]

23. Actually, a lot of pretty much what happens at the end of Lost

The dying person (before passing completely), if it's a lingering death, sometimes sees and "talks with" loved ones who have gone before, assessing his or her own life and determining whether s/he has lived a good life. In the Egyptian belief system, it's the scale test--the determination if the person's heart is as light as the Feather of Truth on the other side of the scale.

Immediately after passing, they might do the tunnel of light thing, or not. Then they experience what they expect/have been taught to expect--for example, devout Christians might see Jesus or St. Peter. People who feel they're going to hell really will go to "hell". Other people are greeted by family members.

Then, after they're allowed to "ease into" the idea of being dead and they play out what they think is supposed to happen, they're welcomed into their soul family and are taught the truth--that there is no judgment, no angry daddy God, no hell, no punishment. Just a place to rest in pure love, with loved ones, for as long as they want. (I believe in reincarnation, so for me that rest could be forever, or they could turn around and start a new life with some members of their soul group.)

Can I prove it? Heck no. But it is what I believe. (I'm a pagan.)

[Taverner]

24. But where does it come from?

Is this a hallucination in the dying one's mind?

Or is this every bit as real as you and me chatting on DU?

Or are the two things one and the same?

[MorningGlow]

32. Good questions

I think it's all the same, although calling something a hallucination would imply that it isn't real and thereby something to be minimized. I believe it's quite real...but then, what is "real"? ;)

[Taverner]

34. "Real" is anything that can be replicated

:)

[MorningGlow]

35. I hope you'll pardon me if I leave it here

I've spent far too much time having the same debate over and over again in the Religion/Theology forum and nobody ever gets anywhere, and then it devolves into poo-flinging. "People of faith" are always at a disadvantage, having to play by "people of science's" rules, but just remember that Jack, a man of science, eventually also became a man of faith (and I'm not talking religion). There's room for both. And sometimes you just have to make that leap. ;)

Edit: spelling

[Taverner]

44. No problem - but I think you and the others are on to something with the dream state

As in, you were a good person and have no regrets - you believe in an afterlife, that dream state will be 'heaven' and vice versa

[Duer 157099]

25. "And I do know if your brain is smashed you're GONE. Done. Over."

To my way of thinking, that's analogous to thinking that by smashing your TV or your radio, that the TV shows or radio sound ceases to exist.

Do you think that?

[Taverner]

26. Not in that sense, but yes - your TV will cease to work if you smash it.

Do you think your TV has sentience?

[Duer 157099]

27. If I have a TV in the other room, it continues to play the broadcast

I think you're intentionally being obtuse about the TV being sentient.

[Taverner]

28. To be honest: I have no idea what you are talking about

Enlighten me - please - and that is not being obtuse

[Duer 157099]

33. I'm saying that many believe that the brain functions as

a receiver, much like a TV or radio. When you smash the TV or radio, you do not destroy the signal, just the device that has been receiving it.

My own theory is that the unique combination of one's DNA and physical body can only be a receiver for one specific signal at any one time. From whence this signal originates, I don't know. But that doesn't detract from the concept for me.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

9. So then the after life lasts for a minute or two, until the brain dies completely.

Unless the brain is destroyed more quickly in whatever kills the person.

[Taverner]

12. Yes nt

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

14. I'd give it a fraction of a second.

If your heart stops beating for whatever reason- major infarction, blown aaorta, gunshot, what have you, then your BP instantly drops, and you lose consciousness pretty much immediately.

sure, some neurons might still fire. But it's not the same kind of firing experienced while dreaming during sleep.

[Taverner]

15. Yes and yes

But if you enter dream state, lots of things can happen

Granted, not everyone gets this dream state...

And we can't really do studies to see who does...

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

16. Right;

But for all we know that last dream could be the one where we're naked in the 3rd grade class.

[Taverner]

18. And yes...

Kinda sucks don't it?

[TK421]

20. That was a dream....that was a dream....that was a dream..

[Dr Morbius]

29. Edit (dupe)

[Dr Morbius]

30. I have it on good authority you meet a Mexican employee at a steambath. (nt)

[datasuspect]

31. there's absolutely no way to understand that with any certainty

and that lack of ability to truly know, with certainty, what happens after death is probably the primal driving force behind spirituality, materialism, and religiosity.

[deutsey]

36. Beyond the scientific explanation of the death process

I don't know what happens. Maybe there's Something more beyond that, maybe there isn't.

I have wondered if dying is what you say it is, does positive spiritual practice during your life (or lack thereof) contribute to the dream state you experience at death.

In other words, there are people who have had near-death experiences (NDE) in which they go to heaven, see loved ones, God, and so on, and it's usually pretty nice. But there are others who claim that they have gone to hell. I haven't done any extensive research on those who claim this, but in the shows I've seen where they've dramatized this kind of NDE (you know, like Unsolved Mysteries--a guilty pleasure of mine) the person is usually a jerk in life before having a car crash or something. When they "die", they say they enter darkness, encounter demons and suffer among other souls, before they cry out to God or something. Then they're revived and, in at least one case, the person went from being a materialistic jerk to a full-time minister.

My question is: Do the people who claim to experience hell in this way do so because they didn't deepen their consciousness in life through some kind of spiritual practice (however you want to define that: religious or not)? Consequently, when they die, all the unresolved guilt, need for love and meaning, etc., manifest themselves in a horrific dream state at death. Whereas those who make some effort at cultivating a deeper spirituality throughout their lives have positive manifestations during their dying dream state.

Does that make sense?

[MorningGlow]

37. I have also done a lot of research on this subject

I described what I've learned and what I believe in post 23 (hee hee that's funny--23!--considering this is an offshoot of the LOST threads!) What I've learned is people experience what they've been taught to experience according to their belief system...at first. Would an atheist experience nothing (again, at first)? THAT would be fascinating to find out.

[deutsey]

39. It is very intriguing

I also just remembered hearing a liberal Christian minister I used to like watching on TV say that while he had heart surgery he was clinically dead for a period of time.

He said during that time, however, he doesn't recall seeing or experiencing anything. May have been the dulling effect of the anesthesia on his mind, I guess.

Beyond all this, personally, I'm more and more of the opinion or belief that our consciousness ultimately merges with a larger cosmic Consciousness or Unity (kind of like what the Hindu Upanishads say), but the language I'm using here really falls short in describing what I'm trying to say.

[MorningGlow]

41. I agree

:hi:

[stray cat]

38. Anyone can tell anyone anything - but seldom do the dead come back

and tell you the truth so its all conjecture.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

40. And the "Uplifting Thread of The Day" goes to Taverner! nt

[Wapsie B]

42. Besides losing control of all bodily functions no one truly knows until the time comes

and it happens to them.

[davsand]

43. "...your brain goes on for a minute or two." I think of that in the context of the revolution.

I can barely imagine how that must have been for the folks who faced the guillotine. I would hope that with the shut down of the body that pain would no longer be a factor, and from what little I looked online it sounds like that is the case:

"Capitalpunishmentuk.org says “The person guillotined becomes unconscious very quickly and dies from shock and anoxia due to hemorrhage and loss of blood pressure within less than 60 seconds. It has often been reported that the eyes and mouths of people beheaded have shown signs of movement.”

The time it takes to go unconscious is thought to only be 2-5 seconds. I would imagine that would be a similar thing whatever you die from--I dunno.


Laura

[WinkyDink]

46. The person "dies from" HAVING NO HEAD, FGS. INSTANTANEOUS.

Any "movement" is completely devoid of a consciousness behind it.

[Arugula Latte]

47. It's freaky that chickens can still run around after, you know ... *whack*