I have a very serious questions regarding help with a friend....

[Lindsey]

He fessed up to me that he's been taking vicodin on and off for months. He's a wonderful guy (who's been a little down over a breakup - and yes, he's on an anti-depressant). He said he sometimes takes 3-4-5 per day and sometimes doesn't take any at all. He said it just makes him feel better about everything - I know, I know, duh...it's a narcotic..yada, yada, but I'm not going to go there with him as his friend. This is probably one of the most intelligent guys I know who accomplishes everything he wants in life. He's now on a search for any combination of activities, vitamins, any and everything that will help him come close to what he describes as a feeling of euphoria. I suggested hypnosis. I'm not looking for any type of advice on how I can berate him (not that you guys would), I'm simply wondering if there's any ideas that will truly help (it may sound stupid but supplements?, I know about endorphines and the runners high, etc. but I'd love to hear more about those types of activities too- These are the types of ideas I'm looking for). I already told him to call narcotics annonymous (I don't know if he will). BTW, it all started when he hurt his back moving some furniture. Thanks for your help. Peace.

[Kamika]

1. Did you actually talk to him about it?

Tell him you're concerned about him... If he's as intelligent as you say, he should be able to understand that he should quit it so he won't get addicted

[Lindsey]

4. I had a VERY long talk with him without placing judgement..

I want to be able to give him some concrete options. That's why I'm looking for ideas. It's a hard topic for me to go to with our other friends because word gets out quickly in the gay community of L.A.(which is where we are) and I'm simply not comfortable discussing it with anyone since he told me in total confidence and asked me to help him. We've helped each other through so much over the years. I REALLY want to give him some ideas that may really help.

[soleft]

2. Sex, Sports and Meditation

I'm very addicted to opiate enhanced states of euphoria. The only healthy avenues I've experienced are sex and sports. There is a definite high attached to sports performance, and sex, whether it's alone or with a partner - an orgasm achieves this, but unless your having orgasms all day, it's hard to find something that has a lasting effect.

I don't know if meditation provides a high - but it may provide a calming equilibrium for the non high times. That's my next thing to look into.

[Heyo]

3. You need to find out if he's taking it steadily...

He may be having withdrawal symptoms and cannot stop. I know what it's like, I have been there... he also may be hiding the actual amount and frequencey of his use.. that is true of just about 100% of addicts. Addicts lie. It's part of the disease they have.

First thing to to make sure you truly know the extent of his use and the amount, and find out truthfully if he has withdrawal symptoms after abstaining for 6 to 12 hours after last dose.

If he is addicted, there are doctors around thet can prescribe Buprenex to mitigate the withdrawal symptoms, and at the same time, block the effects of any other opiates.

In this day and age it is not necessary *nor is it humane*, to 'cold turkey' an opiate addict... it's cruel and unusual.

Let me know if you need more help, I'll do whatever I can. I know what the pain of opiate addiction is like... it is to suffer on a supernatural level that cannot even be imagined by those who have not lived it. (I did up to 100mg of oxy per day for several months...it used to cost me 40 bucks to get out of bed in the morning...seriously)

Heyo

[Lindsey]

5. Heyo..I'm so sorry...I didn't

know you had gone through this and I can't imagine what it's like. Where can he get that medication you mentioned? He doesn't want his doctors or insurance company to know. I know about the lying. He probably is taking more per day than he's telling me, but he swore to me that he doesn't think he's physically addicted but more psychologically (due to the euphoric feeling). He insisted that he can go for days without taking it. He said he takes it more as an anti-depressant.

[bratcatinok]

10. Where is he getting it?

You mentioned he had been prescribed those for a problem he had in the past. Do you know where he's getting his current supply and why (if it's his Doctor) they are still being prescribed for him?

[Heyo]

12. I have been one and known alot....

First off, people who do it every day and speak of a psychological addiction.. may not stop taking them long enough to experience physical withdrawal enough to notice it. The first step would be to have him try to stop taking them for a while, like a "test" to see how he can hang.. with the idea in mind that as soon as things get too bad, he can take a couple pills. Let it be a test to see how well he does. It comes on you like the worst flu you have EVER imagined.. times a million.. with intense pain in the bones and joints. The most painful thing I have ever experienced, no question about it.

Your friend may not have symptoms that bad, and you should encourage him to try quitting while he still has the supply.... WDing because you have run out is far more miserable, than knowing you've still got some of the substance, but your are toughing it out because YOU want to. It's a matter of control. Believe it or not I had much more success psychologically tricking myself.. knowing that I had it and could do it any time I wanted allowed my to be tougher.. running out and having that desperate feeling always had me at the pawn shop within 8 hours. Maybe you can nip this in the bud before it becomes a serious WD situation. (If left unchecked, it always will go that way. 100%)

(I do NOT reccomend cutting off the supply or something harsh like that, like I said in this day and age it's neither necessary nor humane to cold turkey an opiate addict on purpose... alot of helpless addicts have felt so bad in W.D. that a bullet to the head was the only thing that stopped the pain)

As far as I'm concerned it should be no more legal to deny an opiate addict some form of opiate (or buprenorphine) than it is to deny a diabetic his insulin.

The good news if he is physically dependent is that now Buprenex is available and under medical supervision can detox somebody down from a serious opiate dependance right down to zero in about 10 days with virtually no pain whatsoever.

Google "Buprenex Physician Locator" for some more help on that, how available it is depends on what state you live in.

I am praying for you and your friend. I truly wish him and you well.

Heyo

[Heyo]

13. P.S. Lindsey

The andi-depressants have zero effect on the dynamics of an opiate problem..

They may do their own thing, but regardless of what, or how much anti-Ds he is taking or not taking... that is totally irellevant..

Opiates is it's own animal, and thats what needs to be concentrated on.

Heyo

[radwriter0555]

6. He should drop some acid, the really GOOD stuff. There are actually

clubs that do this on a regular basis; a whole sub-culture devoted to it, per se.

The people involved are some of the most brilliant minds I've ever come across, including scientists, lawyers and intellectuals.

The party acid is a waste of time, the crap in clubs and such? But apparently the stuff these folks do, devotees of Leary it seems, is just wonderful.

Acid isn't addicting, it's mind altering, and when done in the company of like minded individuals, apparently it's just an astounding experience.

[Lindsey]

7. I understand you joking around but I guess I'm not in

the mood since this is a serious problem. I'm still looking for some ideas.

[TXlib]

8. Just be there for him, be a good friend

and understand that doing the right thing for him may actually end your friendship. At least, temporarily.

[Lindsey]

11. To me the right thing to do is to help him in his quest

which may be totally unrealistic but maybe not. I'm still wondering if there is anything out there he could take (some kind of a vitamin that maybe gives you a lot of energy) that would help. I feel so stupid regarding this subject but I really want to help him and he's said several times...there must be something out there that at least comes close.

[Onlooker]

9. Supplement won't do it...

But, he should go to a psychologist and eventually a psychiatrist. It takes quite awhile, but they can probably find a better combo on anti-depressants than he's currently on. A relative of mine, who never took illegal drugs, lived with depression for years, despite trying a variety of regimens. Finally, something worked, and for the last few years he's been like a different person. I'd tell you friend to see a different shrink, and begin the long search for right combination of drugs.

[welshTerrier2]

14. i know nothing about addictions

but here's my two cents ...

your friend seems very "turned inward" ... perhaps if you could help him find just a wee little spark of enthusiasm for something outside himself ... people need purpose ...

if he could get into helping with a political campaign, great ... perhaps just taking care of a garden or taking up a running program to measure his progress ... maybe he could find a way to help others ... he might not be up for trying this but helping others in need is often a great way to take the focus off your own troubles ...

start with something small and hopefully add to it ... it doesn't really matter too much what the activity is ... the goal is to "externalize" his focus ...