A woman just squeezed my 21-month-old son's cheeks and legs because he's so cute

[Orrex]

So I fondled her 18-year-old daughter. :sarcasm:


WTF is up with grabbing other people's children? It's not a goddamned petting zoo--ask me before you grab my offspring, thank you very much.

:mad::mad:

[Taverner]

1. HAHAHAHA "Those titties on your daughter are sooooo CUTE!!!"

I just want to eat them up

Congrats, you made me spit granola all over my keyboard. Happy?

[hendo]

2. or

that her breasts looked nice, and he just had to touch.

It sucks how everyone things it is appropriate to fondle someone else's baby or pet.

I was doing obedience training with my parent's puppy at the park and everyone kept walking up and petting her while we were practicing "stay". Damn, that was annoying!

[JVS]

22. Do you remember that scene from sixteen candles where her grandparents greet her?

[Orrex]

32. LOL!

I'll have to remember that exact phrasing for the next time it happens. :rofl:

[JCMach1]

3. Relax! Most of the people in the world aren't so uptight about their kids

Here it is very common to rub hair, or grab cheeks on young kids.

[skooooo]

5. I would never touch someone else's child...

...without permission - especially on their skin. I might tap on their boooties or something, but that's it. I agree with the OP.

[Orrex]

17. That may be the case, but I still find it rude here

If I walked up, grabbed her iPod, and said "this looks cool," I imagine that she'd have something to say about it. But somehow she found my child to be fair game.

It's not even that she touched him, because I'm not germ-phobic; it's the presumptuousness of just copping a feel without asking permission first.

[truedelphi]

34. Currently in the USA it is absolutely against the laws of the culture

To look at someone else's baby or toddler. At least in most suburbs or affluent areas.

And don't touch!!

You might be a perv. You might have greasy hands. You might infect said child with germs.

It is a very very different world than the one in which I grew up.

Other countries are different. Inother countries, it is acceptable to want to hold a baby. I have heard that in Russia, parents can't walk down the street without granmas and granpas coming up to take turns holding the baby (even when not their grandchild.)

But not here!!

The law here is if you wanna baby, get your own damn baby!!

[YellowRubberDuckie]

142. It's not ok to look at people's kids here?

I do it all the time.
And it's not uncommon for me to distract a fussy baby so her mommy can finish up her transaction in line at Target. Most people are thankful and I rarely touch the kid. I just make goofy faces at them and tell them how cute they are. Maybe things are different in Oklahoma. :shrug:
Duckie

[truedelphi]

144. Ah, you are in the nation's heartland.

It's called that for a reason - because there people have a heart.

Try living somewhere like San Anselmo, CA.

When it flooded in the winter of 2005/2006, people got up and left without even calling their neighbors across the way. Even if they were their elderly neighbors.

Don't say "hi" to people you don't know. And watch out for them speeding bikers!!

(My solution was to move away to a rural area. Here I can do everything but take the baby home!)

[Book Lover]

35. And here it is not

It's OK to say that people should and can conform to US social mores when in the US. I'm totally with the OP.

[JCMach1]

45. I still think it is really really paranoid not to want to have people interact with your kids

[Orrex]

47. For the umpteenth time, it's about courtesy; people should ask before grabbing

It's really simple: if I wanted to borrow your car without asking, would you allow it? Or would you get "really really paranoid" and not want me to interact with your vehicle?

Courtesy is all I'm seeking. It implies respect for the child and for the parent who cares for the child.

[madeline_con]

49. People spread disese.

Sad fact, most people are unwashed pigs who touch everything and then go into your kitchen and put their hands in your ice when they come to visit.:puke:

[Burma Jones]

57. Here in the US, we don't want other people touching our kids because...

We have been conditioned to view any stranger as a threat. Subsequently, we're scared of everybody at a certain level. We also do indeed place a premium on our personal space, we are a nation of individuals.

I have three kids, 10, 8 and 2. It's been rare that a stranger actually touched any of them, although we have received a lot of comments on their cuteness throughout their lives.

[Blue Diadem]

64. I think you're right. It was more common 30+ years ago.

My oldest is 33 and people were always touching his white curly blond hair or patting his head saying how cute he was. It was the same for my daughter and she's 32. By the time my youngest had come along, I think people had become more fearful on both sides. While comments about his cuteness and his curly blond hair were still made, I don't recall any strangers touching him.

I worked in an infant/childrens department of a major retailer during part of that time and there was a lot of interaction with sales associates and infants/children as well as other customers touching and talking to infants and children. By the end of the decade that didn't happen any longer.

[TZ]

4. How about the people

Who reach out to rub a pregnant woman's belly without asking..I've seen that too...

[Maine-ah]

9. oooh, I hated that!

I always thought to myself, the next person that does that, I'm going to grab their belly and see if they like it!

As for touching my kid, it creeps me out a little. Especially since you don't know where those strange hands have been, or if they were washed the last time that person went to the bathroom....:scared:

[Common Sense Party]

81. When they do that...Grab their butt annd remark loudly,

"Wow! You're getting really big! When are you due to push the next one out?"

[HopeFor2006]

13. OMG

When I was pregnant with my oldest an elderly woman laid her hands on my belly and began mumbling in a foreign language. I didn't know if my baby was being blessed or cursed!

[Orrex]

18. Apparently pregnancy makes the woman fair game for all manner of grabbing

Better grab her boobs, too, to make sure that she'll be ready to lactate when the time comes.

People are idiots!

[DarkTirade]

29. Yeah, that one just confuses the hell out of me.

Who in their right mind thinks it's a good idea to do something like that? Honestly?

[MountainLaurel]

33. I would break someone's nose

If they tried to touch me without my OK.

[Book Lover]

36. I had that happen three times when pregnant

In each case, I honked the offendors' boobs right back. That got them!

[SoCalDem]

50. My crazy friend once embarrassed a guy when he patted her belly..

She said ".. Do you want me to take my pants off so you can see how it got in there"?.. He turned beet red in the face and apologized .. we laughed our asses off...

[BlueIris]

66. Good one!

Anyone who would touch a complete stranger's belly is a sick twist.

[Orrex]

93. Very true!

But apparently you're preposterously uptight if you don't like strangers to touch your kids.

[Book Lover]

73. Good one!

I wish I had been as clever at the time! :-)

[madinmaryland]

6. Turtlensue was in your neighborhood??

:wtf:

[Orrex]

19. I know! Our community standards have totally gone to shit.

:rofl:

[TZ]

56. Very funny, douchebag!

I actually run the opposite way when I see little kids....:D

[Fox Mulder]

7. If someone did that to my kid, I'd fucking punch them.

But I'm not planning on having any kids, so I'm not going to worry about it.

[Orrex]

21. I'll give you a description of the woman

You can punch her on our behalf if ever you meet her.

[Schema Thing]

8. Children will pay the price for this new, sterile world though

[Orrex]

24. It's not about keeping kids in a sterile environment

Because that's impossible and a fool's obsession besides. I just find it inexcusable that she reached over and helped herself to a handful of toddler for no other reason than "he's cute." I suppose that he was asking for it, in her mind. After all, he knew that he was cute when he left the house; how else did he expect her to act?

(Note that I'm definitely not accusing you thinking as described in those last two sentences; I'm facetiously speculating about what might have been going through her head prior to making the grab.)

[Schema Thing]

43. wow, just how DID humans manage for millions of years?

w/o this new, sterile environment.

[Orrex]

44. What part of "they should ask first" don't you understand?

Who the hell is saying anything about a sterile environment? Or do you equate a desire for courtesy with a desire for sterility?


If someone came over and grabbed your crotch, would you laugh it off and say "humans have been doing this for two million years?"

[Schema Thing]

59. I feel so left out.

Have humans been naturally compelled to grab crotches for millions of years?

[Orrex]

61. It's always charming to debate with a hyper-literalist

So if I come over and squeeze your cheeks and thighs, that's okay?

[Schema Thing]

110. wait, who is the hyper-literalist?

If you make the appropriate goo-goo sounds and lots of smiley gotcher-nose faces, then I'm fine with you squeezing my cheeks and thighs. I'll be reassured that world is full of insane but friendly people. ;)

[Orrex]

116. You were

When you chose to interpret "crotch-grabbing" as a particular once-and-done example instead of the broader, generally inappropriate touching to which it actually (and IMO clearly) alluded.

And I submit that crotch-grabbing--or something very much like it--has, in fact, been a significant part of human interaction for most of the history of the species. That doesn't mean that it's still appropriate or that we who don't accept that behavior are uptight or intolerant.

[Book Lover]

37. The price of learning that they are allowed to their own bodily integrity?

What awful price is that?

[Iggo]

10. Yeah, that's rude.

Although I have a weird habit of talking straight to strangers' babies and ignoring their parents completely. Which I suppose is its own kind of rude. But the parents don't interest me, and the babies love the attention.

I'm fairly certain I'd never fondle their teenage daughters, though...lol.

:rofl:

[yellowdogintexas]

12. I love to talk to babies, they love it (and don't kid yourself, if you are fawning over

somebody's infant, as a general rule that parent is beaming with pride because you think their little one is SO CUTE!

Maybe it is just regionally different, but around here, women at least when they see babies will tickle their feet, touch their little dimpled knees, make faces and generally make fools of themselves over the baby, especially if it is a friendly baby, prone to giggling and smiling.

I must be really funny looking because I almost never fail to make a baby at least smile.

My daughter calls me a 'baby whisperer'

:rofl: :rofl:


edited for slight clarity of phrasing

[Schema Thing]

114. and frankly, what you describe is owed to babies

[yellowdogintexas]

132. absolutely. Love a friendly baby! nt

[jobycom]

11. F*cking Ann Richards did that to my baby.

So I decked her.

[Orrex]

25. Really, what else could you do in that situation?

I hope that you got her sentenced to doing a guest-spot on King of the Hill, too.

[leeroysphitz]

14. My wife slapped a very old woman's hand away from our, then newborn.

At a restaurant.

Good times.

[Orrex]

26. If your wife had tried to grab the old woman, how would the old woman have reacted?

Much the same, I suspect. Good for your wife!

[Skittles]

28. hey, she needed to be taught a lesson

age is no excuse

[Radical Activist]

74. At Olive Garden?

:)

[Haole Girl]

15. Could have been worse, I guess...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nd2Z3nXnLD0

[Pierre.Suave]

23. That was weird...

and creepy...

[Orrex]

27. That's why I make it a practice

Never to introduce my children to foreign dignitaries. Perhaps I'm being too strict, but the rule has served us well.

[LeftyMom]

16. Ugh, I hated that. And people who wanted to touch my belly when I was pregnant,

or who thought that my pregnancy/new baby meant they got to ask all kinds of intrusive medical questions.

One lady on the bus asked me "He has a big head! Did you tear?" like somehow my carrying a baby around made my vagina everybody's business.

[Orrex]

30. If you don't care to talk about your vaginal ripping, then you have no business riding on the bus.

Why so uptight? :sarcasm:


On those occasions when I've had the opportunity to feel a baby kicking inside some woman's body, I have always asked "may I?" before laying my hand on her. If she declines, then that's the end of it.

[Kali]

92. nevermind

the irony of your post was almost too much for me

[Chovexani]

20. Stay away from those NAMBLA ice cream trucks

[Orrex]

31. Sound advice always

Noted!

[Book Lover]

38. Fewer things make me madder

I completely understand how you feel. My situation is a bit different: my child is autistic. How exactly am I supposed to teach my child about keeping physical boundaries if people come up and touch her without permission!

[Orrex]

42. That's an excellent point that I hadn't even considered

It's tricky enough teaching that lesson even without having a bunch of strangers groping him; it must be a brazillion times more complicated with an autistic child!

:hug:

[Kali]

113. that is a different situation, for sure

How do (did? age?) you handle it? As I mentioned below, I would expect this becomes much less of an issue pretty quickly as the child gets older just because it is primarily infants that are attractive to strangers in this way - I expect this issue would be pretty moot by the time you would be teaching boundary recognition to your child.

[ThomCat]

39. I can't imagine how anyone would think it's appropriate

to touch someone else's child without permission. Wow! :wow:

I'd be a bit pissed at the rudeness too.

[msanthrope]

40. Lighten Up, Francis......What is more beautiful and wonderful than

a baby looking about and seeing the world? Your children remind all of us that the world continues--so of course we all want to share in the wonder.

Truly, a loved and wanted child is a thing to behold---so let us kiss their feet and poke their fat thighs....


"Your children are not your children.
They are the sons and daughters of Life's longing for itself.
They come through you but not from you,
And though they are with you, yet they belong not to you.
You may give them your love but not your thoughts.
For they have their own thoughts.
You may house their bodies but not their souls,...."
http://oldpoetry.com/opoem/13488-Khalil-Gibran-Children-Chapter-IV

[Orrex]

41. That's all fine and dandy, but would-be-gropers should still ask first

And if the parents decline, then no means no.

[JCMach1]

46. I still say deep-six the paranoia...

[Orrex]

48. Do you understand that paranoia has nothing to do with it?

I don't know how to make this any clearer: if you want to grab someone's child, ask first.

:shrug:

[JCMach1]

54. Grab, yes perhaps

touching as long (as we are talking appropriate) is just fine...

Americans take the personal space thing WAY too seriously.

[Orrex]

55. We just have different thresholds of "appropriate" touching

If I thought it "appropriate" to tickle your wife's/girlfriend's/daughter's boobs, would you smile and nod as I did so?

[JCMach1]

58. Apples and oranges... patting a cute kid on the head hardly

constitutes the same thing...

[Orrex]

60. Really? Grabbing a handful of flesh is acceptable when it's a baby?

At what age does this acceptable handful expire? 5? 10? 15? 20? When and why?

[JCMach1]

69. If it is non-sexual touch, what is the big deal?

SIGH

[BlueIris]

72. A stranger touching a child without the child's (or parent's) permission is just horrifying.

Were you raised in a barn? Or by child molesters?

[Common Sense Party]

82. Well, the parent is right there.

Most child molesters wait until the parent is nowhere in sight.

[msanthrope]

85. Again, I think your posts suggest you have some fairly

deep-seated issues....

I read the OP's post as a having a problem with perceived rudeness....not a fear of child molesters....how or why you are making those leaps might be something you could reflect on...

[Orrex]

88. I wrote the OP! The issue IS a matter of rudeness! And who are you to diagnose anyone's "issues?"

And how the fuck do you base your quack diagnosis on a desire not to have their children grabbed?

Why are you such a fervent advocate for unrestrained child-grabbing? What diagnosis are we to make from that, eh?

[Kali]

98. 85 wasn't talking to you about your issues

they were talking to another poster

[Orrex]

101. You're right--after I re-read the preceding posts, I edited mine to broaden the question

But it's still wildly inappropriate for her to diagnose BlueIris or anyone else based on her pop-psych interpretation of the meaning of personal boundaries.

edited to correct a pronoun error

[msanthrope]

104. I didn't diagnose BI--and I'm not a he. In fairness, I

expect you to take BI to task for suggesting therapy and raising the spectre of child molestation..since you seem to be outraged by pop-psych interpretations.

[Orrex]

111. Whoops! Sorry--I corrected the pronoun error

Pop-psych interpretations are foolish, yes. If you're referring to the "raised in a barn/raised by child molesters" post, then I think that the tone of that one is of manifestly different character than expressing the view that someone has deep-seated issues. The latter strikes me much more clearly as an attempt at offhand diagnosis a la Dr. Frist.

If there's a post with a more explicit diagnosis by BI, I didn't see it, but I'll look again.

[Kali]

115. see #67

and 76

[Orrex]

119. I've now replied to 67

And I think that the reply covers 76 as well.

[msanthrope]

102. Yes, I got that you wrote the OP---and I felt that your

issue was of rudeness, not child molestation. Blue Iris made the leap to child molestation---

And I diagnosed no one. I simply noted that I didn't see how one gets from rudeness to child molestation within the confines of this thread.

Unrestrained child-grabbing? Hardly. I was blessed with a engaging, beautiful daughter who has turned heads ever since she was 4 months old. Even now, people pat her head, want to shake her hand, say hello, and it's not because they are rude or want to harm her....

As I asked below, how did your son react?

[sammythecat]

145. Horrifying !? This woman't actions were "horrifying"?

Don't you think it might have been something a little less than that?

And suggesting that a poster was raised in a barn by child molesters isn't horrifying, but it is unnecessarily rude.

[Kali]

84. it "expires" after the toddler stage

when the child is able to accomplish social touching on it's own - shaking hands, for instance

[Orrex]

87. If a child turns away from the stranger or tries to move his feet out of reach

That's a pretty clear indication of "don't touch."

[Kali]

95. that I certainly agree with

on the other end of the spectrum is weird parents who try to make their kid hug bare acquaintances - I have been at "friends of friends" houses where that has happened - :scared: :wtf:

[AngryAmish]

65. You think they way you feel is the way everyone feels

However, as you can see from the responses above, not everyone feels the same way you feel.

Part of growing up is realizing the one does not have the same feelings as others on all subjects. Then one has to realize that having different feelings does not make other people evil. Just different. It is called tolerance and the world would be a much nicer place if it was practiced universally.

[Orrex]

78. So I'm "intolerant" because I don't want strangers to grab my children without asking first?

Point me to the post in which I declared anyone "evil," or else you need to retract that point.

I have called people inconsiderate, and I stand by that description.

[AngryAmish]

89. I didn't say you called folks evil

I was speaking in generalities.

[Orrex]

91. I see.

Nevertheless, by implying my lack of tolerance, and framing a lack of tolerance in terms of the flawed perception that "different" people are "evil," you did sort of imply that this was my perception.

If that was not your intent, then I accept your explanation.

[TommyO]

138. That still does not give somebody the right to touch a child

without the parent's invitation or permission.

[bridgit]

51. U Dawg!! Still, thread worthless without pudgy-cute baby pics, dang it!!

:rant:

[Orrex]

52. LOL! I'll post a few tomorrow

Beware--his unbridled adorability might make you try to pinch your monitor's cheeks.

[bridgit]

53. hee-heeeee, bring it on!!

:hi:

[Kali]

62. I understand your fears/offense taking

but on the other hand I have had a couple kids and live in a rural area and have traveled. It is a natural human reaction to touch and interact with babies. It is probably even an evolutionary advantage that this occurs. That drive to bond with the band's infants is a protective mechanism that eventually led to sayings like "it takes a village"...

But yeah us USAians value our personal space, that is for sure.

[Orrex]

80. Again, the "bonding drive" is fine, but it doesn't entitle anyone to paw a baby without asking first

There's any number of behaviors that are welcome in other cultures or were acceptable in American culture in years past, but that seems largely irrelevant to me, since we don't live in those other cultures or other times.

Additionally, we all have drives that we control because they are not socially acceptable, even if they were at one time or in another place.


All the stranger needs to do is say "May I tickle the baby's feet?" or something similar, and the problem goes away.

[Kali]

96. I think that some of us are saying that this has not become

entirely socially unacceptable yet. Obviously for many it IS acceptable. I suspect in uptight urban areas it is approaching taboo status. I know that many males are now afraid to even speak to young children for fear they will be accused of perversion. I am not sure all this boundary enforcing is 100 percent good, but I understand it. (I have bad personal space issues - and of course one of my best friends is German - go figure!)

[Orrex]

99. I can see that.

For the record, I would absolutely never touch a stranger's child without asking, barring some immediate peril that supersedes the accepted personal boundary. Hell, I can hardly even imagine asking in the first place!

It's frankly bizarre to me that, for some who find it acceptable, it is absurd to consider that some do not. We can all name any number of behaviors that remain acceptable to some, even when these behaviors are no longer tolerated in general.

[Celeborn Skywalker]

63. I understand how you feel

because you were most likely raised American. If it's that offensive though, I suggest you stay out of Latin America, the Middle East, and most of Europe, because it's going to happen all the time in those places.

[msanthrope]

70. When I took my daughter to meet her Sicilian relatives I don't

think I held her for more than 10 total minutes beyond nursing her.....everyone wanted to hold her, play with her. Relatives, friends, neighbors were all enchanted by my little charmer...nothing inappropriate or creepy.

[CTyankee]

154. Everywhere I've been in Italy/Sicily it's like that.

When I go into family restaurants there and there are families with babies someone carries the baby around table to table. I learned to say "E carino!" or "Che bella!" It's expected.

[BlueIris]

67. The rationalizations for REALLY inappropriate behavior in this thread are disturbing. Some of you

need to speak with some therapists about this little concept we call BOUNDARIES.

Holy shit.

[msanthrope]

68. Lighten up, Francis..."really inappropriate behavior" ??? "Therapy"??

Methinks you belie some rather deep-seated issues yourself....

Nobody on this thread was speaking of "really inappropriate behavior" with regard to touching children....the fact that you could read this thread and 1) make that leap, and 2) then sanctimoniously suggest therapy indicates to me that perhaps you would benefit from a bit of self-introspection.

[Blue Diadem]

75. I think the BI might be referring to

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=105&topic_id=8002919&mesg_id=8005775

[BlueIris]

76. I was referring to the sick freaks who think it's okay to touch stranger's children without anyone's

permission. This is indicative of poor mental health, among other things.

[Blue Diadem]

79. Thank BI for clarifying. I didn't know that's what you meant.

I don't think it's all that common now. It was common when my first two were little. I think the fear of illness/germs and pedophiles and general distrust of people have long made it a thing of the past.

It's just sad that people have to live in such fear now. I can understand it though. It's difficult to teach a child about strangers if a parent allows strangers to touch them.

[Kali]

103. must be really scary to view such a large portion of people as sick freaks

I don't even think the OP thinks that - seemed to be a question of etiquette, not perversion or mental health.

[Orrex]

83. In fact, touching without asking *is* "really inappropriate behavior"

For some fucked up reason people think it's fine to grab a child's face or feet or thighs when these behaviors would never be tolerated if inflicted upon adults.

Try this: next time you're in the office, grab the cheeks of the woman sitting next to you and say "ooooh! So cute!"

And then when you're hauled down to Human Resources to try to persuade them not to fire you, you can say to the person in HR, "lighten up Francis, you must have been raised by Americans."


I'm sure that everyone will chuckle warmly at the quaint notion of personal boundaries.

[msanthrope]

97. Apples to oranges....If I met your child and tried to shake

his hand and converse with him about the 2008 election, you'd agree that's age inappropriate.

Just as your example is age inappropriate...one simply does not treat grown adults as they do children---


How did your son react? Was he upset? I ask because one of the first and greatest lessons I learned as a mother was to separate my own feeling from the feelings of my daughter....thus, respecting that she is her own person, with her own thoughts. This is what allows me to be smile when she plays in mud with worms and bugs that disgust me....it's not about me and my dislikes....

[Orrex]

107. He turned away and kicked his feet. He's 21 months old--he's not going to lodge a formal complaint.

And do (did) you always defer to your toddler's wishes re: behavior? Mine, for instance, wants to run at full speed off of the front porch, because he doesn't yet have the hang of walking down steps; therefore I take the liberty of intervening.

Likewise, he has no concept of reasonable interactions with strangers. I am confident that my son would enjoy removing his diaper and examining his penis while we're at a restaurant, and again I would intervene. Not because his penis is dirty or naughty, but because it's not generally considered appropraite to check it out during dinner.

Because my wife and I are his parents and the stranger is not, we take the liberty of instructing him in what we judge to be proper and safe behaviors, all while respecting his ability to make age-appropriate decisions for himself. You may dispute my choice in this case, but I am confident that you do (did) the same thing with your daughter, such that your your wishes overruled your daughter's in a great many instances.

[msanthrope]

117. Just as I don't grab adults in a work environment, I also

didn't let my toddler run wild--your hyperbole aside.

I also have no problem stating when my child is too tired, irritated, or simply does not want to interact with people...."Please don't" and a stern look was all I ever had to give anyone.

I don't disagree with your choices--merely your gauge of inappropriateness. As you said nothing to the woman, I don't think you can expect her to read your mind---and yes, some people do need to be told.

[Orrex]

121. Well, that might be the bottom line

As I stated elsewhere, I would have thought that interposing myself between her and my toddler would have been sufficient; I'm a shade over six feet tall and a shade-and-a-half over 200 pounds, so it's hard for me to overlook me standing there.

However, I now see that it may be necessary for me actually to speak up, even though the need to do so seems preposterous to me; the stranger should seek or await permission before going for the grab. Since this is clearly not going to happen, I'll have to remember to state my objection clearly in the future.

[TommyO]

139. A simple "get your fucking hands off my child" would suffice IMHO

Anybody touching somebody else's child without permission deserves no better, and quite possibly something even more harsh.

[Evoman]

120. Again.....NEVER EVER go to South America.

This:

"Try this: next time you're in the office, grab the cheeks of the woman sitting next to you and say "ooooh! So cute!"

is completely acceptable. No..actually it's completely EXPECTED. If you don't kiss your secretary in the morning, or hug, pinch or kiss the women in the cubicle beside yours when you come in the morning, then they will likely be offended. And you'll be ostracized.

In the States, I'd be wary of even looking people in the eyes.

[Orrex]

122. No shit?

That's pretty amazing. Do people even wear clothes in South America?

[Evoman]

123. Lol..yeah, but I was flashed TWICE while I was there.

And I basically kissed every girl I met. Seriously...you have to kiss everyone your introduced to.

[Orrex]

118. I agree with you re: boundaries, but I think that calls for therapy might be premature

The overall sweep of this discussion has generally divided the replies into "it's rude" and "it's fine." I think that, for purposes of my original question, it's sufficient to keep it in this context. Boundaries are a part of this, but it's not IMO necessary to imply a pathology when discussing them; it's become clear that people have different notions of acceptable boundaries, and these are the essence of the discussion, I think.

Questions of the need for therapy might be valid in other contexts but are beyond the scope of the story I recounted.

[Shell Beau]

71. Yeah and people don't mind touching a pregnant belly either.

Keep your grubby hands off of my stomach. I do not know you.

[Blue Diadem]

77. I always wondered why that was..that people would touch, tap

rub and in one of my experiences with a coworker, the guy would lower his head and knock and say "Hello in there". I knew he loved kids, he had 7 of his own but geesh, but it was embarassing.

[Shell Beau]

94. It makes things a little awkward. You would never

touch a stranger's stomach otherwise. Just a little weird for me.

[mainegreen]

125. My wife ripped some peoples arms clean off when they tried that on her.

I still haven't managed to get the blood out of my sweater.

[Kali]

86. I think you are overracting, although I understand the parental protectiveness driving it.

What did you do to remove your child from this woman's clutches? Did you ask her to stop or use your body position to block her in some way? Just curious what you actually did. You might want to develop some technique if this bothers you so much because it will happen again.

I would guess most people won't see your point. (and of course you don't have to worry about the ones who do ;-) )

[Orrex]

90. We were in the checkout line, which is approximately two inches wider than the cart

She reached around me to grab my son while I was leaning over the cart to load groceries onto the conveyor belt. I stood up and interposed myself, politely laughing that, yes indeed, he is darned cute, but she continued to reach around me to get at him.

[Blue Diadem]

105. A simple "please don't touch him" would have been sufficient.

I posted earlier about way back when. I can remember when it was becoming less common to touch children and heard parents tell some of our more touchy associates to ask before tickling a foot or touching the face or they'd say a simple "please don't touch him/her".

It's really up to you to set the boundaries and if you feel someone is overstepping, then by all means let them know in a polite but firm way.

[Orrex]

109. I confess that it simply didn't occur to me

I felt that interposing myself would have been a sufficiently clear signal for any functional adult, but in this case it clearly was not.

You're right, though; if it occurs again, I shouldn't hesitate to make my feelings clear.

[Kali]

106. to me when she continued after you signaled was where the line

was actually crossed. Is this your first kid? If you have more or even when this one is older you may change your mind and be wanting strangers to take them eventually. Mine are almost grown and I'm still hoping:rofl:

Also they get older and less cute to strangers pretty fast, this stage will pass before you know it.

[Orrex]

108. He's my second. The older one wouldn't hesitate to say "why is she touching me?"

And I cna't wait until the stage passes and strangers are once again able to restrain themselves. ;)

[TommyO]

140. He would have been justified using physical force to get

that person away from his child.

[Kali]

146. but less of an ass if he tried using words first

it was a woman fawning over a cute kid geeez! quick to violence much?

[Evoman]

100. Lol....NEVER EVER EVER take your son to South America.

Fair warning.

I agree with you, though. Definitely need to ask first.

[Kali]

112. and yet what a great experience it is to do that

for EVERYBODY, your kid gets this FABULOUS load of adoring attention, and you get immediate acceptance to the local community where ever you go. I loved whoring out the kids when they were young. Worked good to manipulate my Grampa. He suffered severe dementia and awful behavior towards the end, but he and my toddler got along so great - I'd set them up with the teevee or toys or out in the yard together Grampa thought he was watching the baby and the baby was entertained and I could get stuff done by just checking on them from a distance - it worked just like it should when generations overlap in the same house.

[Kali]

124. this ended up being a pretty good thread

in no small part thanks to your reasonable responses to the people that disagreed with you
:thumbsup:
Nice balance between good discussion and disagreement, personal experiences, information and a few jokes.

Just missing a few lounge photoshops.:rofl:

[Orrex]

148. It would have been better

If everyone had just flat-out acknowledged that I was 100% perfectly right all along! :evilgrin:

[Kali]

150. nah

those ass-kissing threads are teh boring:rofl:

[supernova]

126. NEWSFLASH: It doesn't stop with teh babies

I was that kid that got pinched... cherub cheeks and all until I was about eight or nine and could say STOP!!

Oh, and I'm now 46 and STILL HAVE THE CHERUB CHEEKS!! :wtf:

But, people do ask my permission now. :-)

[WildEyedLiberal]

127. My GOD, is there nothing that can't spawn a flamewar on DU?

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

FWIW I agree with you, Orrex, but some DUers have very, very odd notions of acceptable personal conduct - this I have learned in the past few days (hell, the past four years).

[Celeborn Skywalker]

128. Not necessarily odd,

just raised in a different culture. In most of southern Europe, Latin America, and the Middle East, personal boundaries aren't as strict as they are in Northern European-derived cultures. Here in NM, where 1/2 of the population is Hispanic, it will happen all the time, whereas in a place like Minnesota, the OP is unlikely to have as many people touching his/her baby.

(Sorry for the explanation, but I was bored and felt like typing, lol)

[Orrex]

129. That's a good overview, but...

IMO the stranger has to defer to the wishes of the parent, regardless of the values that are familiar to the stranger. This, ultimately, seems like the essence of common courtesy.

Or, as my wife just put it much more succinctly: When in Rome...

[WildEyedLiberal]

131. Cultural imperialist!!!

[Celeborn Skywalker]

147. True.

[Kali]

151. yeah but maybe YOU were the one in Rome, not the toucher...

I think that was the issue.

[Orrex]

152. My kid, my Rome.

When she shows up with her kid, I'll be super-grabby and see how she likes it. :)

[TZ]

130. Thats just what I was thinking!

Man..I have to stop associating myself with someone as paranoid as Orrex......:rofl:

[Iris]

133. How about ask the offspring before you grab him/her?

[Orrex]

135. Sure--but the offspring in question isn't much of a verbal communicator as yet

Which, again, is the reason why I assert that the stranger should ask the parent.

[My Good Babushka]

134. Hard not to squeeze these.

Orrex has got some fine genes, y'all. Gaze upon the gorgeosity.

[TZ]

136. Aww cuties...

I'm guessing they get their cuteness from YOU......And the smart-assness (or potential) from Orrex...
:rofl:

[Phentex]

149. Yes, I see the problem...

too cute not to be squozen!

But strangers should not touch other people's kids.

[Dr. Strange]

153. I have to confess:

I printed the picture out and squeezed his cheeks and legs a little. Without asking.

He's so cute. (The kid, not Orrex.)

[TommyO]

137. This 43-yr old just had a conversation about this with his mother yesterday

She had major problems with other people touching us without invitation or permission. You are absolutely within the bounds of reason here, Orrex, nobody touches your children without your express permission, regardless of how good and pure their intentions may be.

[SammyWinstonJack]

141. Babies are so cute, but she should have asked before touching your child.

I refrain from even speaking to someone's child. Babies/toddlers will often smile and I will smile back and think to myself, 'what an adorable child'. However, I won't say anything to the parent and I would never think of touching or even asking if I could.

[dropkickpa]

143. I was THAT mom

The one that freaked on people who attempted to touch my kid. Got many dirty looks, pissed off huffs, tsks, etc, but who gives a shit? Not I! And I have always allowed Dropkid to decide for herself if she wanted to give hugs, handshakes, etc. I remember being forced to touch creepy old people when I was a little (like 4 years old) kid. Not pleasant at all, I HATED it when people I didn't know touched me and I felt betrayed when my grandma forced me to shake hands, submit to cheek pinching, etc.