Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Which pain is worse?

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » The DU Lounge Donate to DU
 
Generic Brad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-21-08 12:16 AM
Original message
Poll question: Which pain is worse?
I have never seen a lady who has given birth wince in pain at the mention of labor. But discuss a swift kick to the family jewels and most men writhe in imaginary pain.

So---which pain is the worst?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
reyd reid reed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-21-08 12:20 AM
Response to Original message
1. I've never been kicked in the testicles
but I have given birth to five children. Without drugs.

Let's see...how can I describe it? Hour upon hour of feeling like your insides are being pulled to the outside of your body and then stuffed back in through your navel so you can do it again?

Nah...that doesn't really do it justice.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
dubeskin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-21-08 12:21 AM
Response to Original message
2. The world may never know...
Edited on Sat Jun-21-08 12:23 AM by dubeskin
Probably a kick in the testicles, but I've never given birth and don't plan to. I don't think my body's anatomically equip to do so ;)

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AlCzervik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-21-08 12:21 AM
Response to Original message
3. i had natural hard labor with no drugs and i've had a gallbladder attack, i'd take
natural hard labor again over the gallbladder attack any day. As for getting kicked in the nuts, well that looks like it really hurts.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Generic Brad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-21-08 12:24 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. I've taken a hurled rock to the crotch
Nothing good resulted from it. At least with labor there is a new life to compensate for the pain.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Cannikin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-21-08 02:06 PM
Response to Reply #3
37. I second the gallbladder attack.
I've never given birth, but the gallbladder was the first time I can truly say I experienced 10 out of 10 pain on the scale.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AlCzervik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-21-08 02:09 PM
Response to Reply #37
38. and you don't forget that pain, i've heard women forget labor pain, i didn't, i still remember
it and it hurt like a mofo but it's still better then the gallbladder, i should throw kidney stone in there as well, i haven't had one of those but i'm guessing it's similar to gallstones on the excruciating pain meter.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Adsos Letter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-22-08 02:18 AM
Response to Reply #38
56. I passed a pretty large kidney stone...
and, among other delights, it felt like being kicked in the testicles...over and over and over and over....
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
jobycom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-21-08 02:09 PM
Response to Reply #3
39. I've had a gallbladder attack and been kicked in the testicles.
And I'd take the kick to the progeny any day, too. So that puts us back to square one.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
dropkickpa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-22-08 12:28 AM
Response to Reply #3
54. Me too!
Gallbladder attacks SUCKED!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
CaliforniaPeggy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-21-08 12:24 AM
Response to Original message
4. My dear Generic Brad...
I suspect that these two pains are different...

The kick is sharp and very acute...

Labor goes on for awhile, and is less sharp...

I had drugs for my two births, so I cannot testify to childbirth pain as reyd reid reed did!

We don't wince at the mention of labor, also, because we have a baby at the end of it!

:hi:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Maine-ah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-22-08 06:52 AM
Response to Reply #4
60. I dunno Peggy, I had 24 hours of back labor
and ending in a c-section. It was pretty sharp. I finally accepted drugs after 10 hours of that. :hi:

As for someone who said that women forget the pain, I haven't yet, but then again it's only been 19 months.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
some guy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-21-08 12:30 AM
Response to Original message
6. I'd have to guess birth labor
I used to think giving birth would be very painful. Then in my twenties, I learned a new word: appeaseotomy.

Holy fuck - no one even talks about that little occasional(?) add-on to labor pains, so I'm thinking labor must be really bad if that becomes an incidental-not-worth-mentioning.

:scared:

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
CaliforniaPeggy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-21-08 01:19 AM
Response to Reply #6
9. My dear some guy!
I think you mean "episiotomy"?

It's a cut made to help the baby emerge from the mother's vagina...

It's not painful, normally!

Every woman's labor is different...

It helps to know and understand what's going on during it...

And of course, you have a baby for compensation at the end!

:hug:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
some guy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-21-08 01:38 AM
Response to Reply #9
13. yeah, that's what I meant.
"...not painful, normally!" Yeah, tell a guy you're going to cut his bits (just a quick slice) and see how long he's willing to hang around to see if it hurts or not.

:)

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
CaliforniaPeggy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-21-08 01:43 AM
Response to Reply #13
14. Ah, let me explain!
When a woman has an episiotomy, the cut is across the perineum, which has been stretched tight by the coming baby.

The stretching makes the area numb, and so the woman doesn't normally feel it!

They make the cut to keep the area from ripping, which would be harder to repair...

Does that help?

I'm retired from nursing, BTW...

:hi:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
some guy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-21-08 06:31 AM
Response to Reply #14
21. yes indeed.
It confirms my position that birth labor is so painful someone can cut you, and you will barely notice. :scared: :scared: :scared:
Sort of like in the Rocky movie, when he's been getting the crap beat out of him, and has his corner man cut his eye (which has swollen closed) so he can see well enough to go get beat up some more. 'Hey, I'm already half-dead, what's one more cut.'

I did know you were retired nursing. I read that in one of your posts a long time ago.

:hi:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Blue Diadem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-21-08 11:37 AM
Response to Reply #14
30. Peggy, my daughter felt her tear
Her epidural didn't work and her now former OB-GYN didn't do an episiotomy. I've wondered if it was because the baby's head was stuck in the birth canal and the baby's heart rate had been dropping steadily, at that time it was 39. He was kinda freaking out at that point. My daughter ending up tearing vaginally leading to quite a blood loss and 1/2 hr of internal stitching. They didn't transfuse her but she was gray looking for several hours.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
CaliforniaPeggy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-21-08 04:07 PM
Response to Reply #30
44. I am so sorry to hear that...
That was mishandled, IMHO...

I hope that your daughter and grandchild were OK...

:hug:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Blue Diadem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-21-08 07:09 PM
Response to Reply #44
48. We thought it was poorly handled too.
Scared us at the time, but the good news is that 9 years later, both daughter and granddaughter are fine.

:hug:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Fox Mulder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-21-08 12:30 AM
Response to Original message
7. Well, since I'll never experience childbirth...
I'm going to say getting kicked in the balls.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Angleae Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-21-08 01:09 AM
Response to Original message
8. I know a pain that only men suffer...
I know a pain that only men suffer that's so far above labor pains you can't even find it on the pain chart. We don't even talk about it. There is no pain greater than the pain a man gets when a he goes out on a date, puts his date down in the seat, in the movie, puts his arm around the chair, in the movie, and leaves it there for two-and-a-half hours. The blood from his fingertips drains to the center of his chest. What are you trying to do? Trying to save my wrist, what do you think.

Kudos to Bill Cosby for this one
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LeftyMom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-21-08 01:25 AM
Response to Original message
10. I was in labor for just over 24 hours.
Get kicked in the nuts for a day straight and we'll talk.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Carnea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-21-08 01:27 AM
Response to Original message
11. toothache nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mcctatas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-21-08 01:37 AM
Response to Original message
12. I was going to say birth, but then I remebered all of the good
drugs. Although my husband just said "I remeber how much pain you were in before they gave you the drugs and I would prefer getting kicked in the jewels 20 times over that". So the answer I guess is neither, but labor is a bitch!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bridgit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-21-08 01:47 AM
Response to Original message
15. i had a c-sec
but have been with friends in hard labor for hours of sustained, pain filled distress :(
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
jeff30997 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-21-08 01:48 AM
Response to Original message
16. I have never given birth ...
But a big hit in the testicles is hell!!!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
coyotespaw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-21-08 01:54 AM
Response to Original message
17. C: Degenerative Disc Disease...
Both of the above mentioned conditions get better after a while...
:P
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-21-08 05:42 AM
Response to Reply #17
20. Seconded.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
galledgoblin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-21-08 02:51 AM
Response to Original message
18. haven't experienced either
I'd have to say that kidney stones sound worse than either of them.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
fizzgig Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-21-08 02:57 AM
Response to Original message
19. i haven't experienced either
and don't really know that i will at any point...so, for me, it's between the only ear infection i got (at 20) and when my sockets got infected after my wisdom teeth were pulled
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
FloridaJudy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-21-08 06:46 AM
Response to Original message
22. I've given birth
Without anesthetic, and I've had an abscessed tooth. I'll take the birth, thanks. I think all the blood leaves your brain when you deliver, so you can't really remember it later, but I felt every throb of that tooth, and remember it vividly.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sarge43 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-21-08 09:15 AM
Response to Original message
23. I'd have no way of judging
I've never given birth nor do I have testicles.

I have heard childbirth described as shitting a watermelon or having your lower lip pulled over the top of your head.

I was present when a young man was bitten in the jewels by a large angry macaw. Fortunately he was wearing jeans, so no major physical trauma. However, he turned green, threw up, assumed the fetal position and started screaming like a banshee.

What chimpsrsmarter and FloridaJudy said about gallbladders and abscesses.

Speaking of abscesses, have a vaginal one lanced sans anesthetics. I believe my screams still echo the halls of Wilford Hall Med Center.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Blue Diadem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-21-08 11:01 AM
Response to Reply #23
26. Oh I sympathize
I had 3 external hemorrhoids removed in a Dr's office. Dr. forgot to "numb" one of them. After a high pitch scream through clenched teeth instead of the shriek scream I so wanted to do, he says "oops, I forgot to numb that one" and proceeds to inject it which burnt like fire.

As a tot, my son had to have his eardrum lanced..I will also never forget that scream.

When my daughter gave birth, something didn't work right with her epidural. She tore as the head emerged and that's another scream I'll never forget.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sarge43 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-21-08 11:07 AM
Response to Reply #26
27. Lanced eardrum - poor little guy.
And to you and your daughter :hug:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Blue Diadem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-21-08 11:14 AM
Response to Reply #27
28. He didn't like people in white coats for a long time
:hi: :hug:

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sarge43 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-21-08 11:20 AM
Response to Reply #28
29. I empathize. Neither did I. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Tuesday Afternoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-21-08 09:56 AM
Response to Original message
24. Perhaps this person can answer the question --
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
skygazer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-21-08 10:18 AM
Response to Original message
25. Option C - miscarriage
I've had 3 kids with no anasthetic and 1 miscarriage. I'll take birth labor any day. :scared:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Rhiannon12866 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-21-08 11:51 AM
Response to Original message
31. I don't think that anybody here can honestly answer your question.
It would be next to impossible to experience both...:shrug:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ThomCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-21-08 12:13 PM
Response to Original message
32. Kidney Stones.
x(
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Auggie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-21-08 03:18 PM
Response to Reply #32
42. A doctor told me kidney stones and child birth are the worst.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Blue_In_AK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-21-08 10:12 PM
Response to Reply #32
51. I agree.
I had three babies, all natural and at home. The kidney stone was far, far worse.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MonkeyFunk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-21-08 12:28 PM
Response to Original message
33. getting kicked in the testicles while giving birth
that would suck.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
krispos42 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-21-08 12:31 PM
Response to Original message
34. My humble opinion...
A good shot to the testicles is more painful.

<dodges thrown rocks and bottles>

BUT......

The pain is far shorter in duration than childbirth.




The fast that a woman's body is made and prepared for childbirth but a man's body is NOT made to take a shot to the sack may have something to do with it.




My most serious crotch hit was when my little brother nailed me in the sack with a soda can full of pennies. Diet Rite, if memory serves.

Initially and for a couple of minutes, I felt no pain at all, but my muscles turned to water. I crawled up the porch and then curled up into a ball. Eventually, the pain faded to the point where my mind stopped blocking it. THEN it hurt like a sonofabitch!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ThePowerofWill Donating Member (462 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-21-08 01:00 PM
Response to Original message
35. hmm not sure if it is worse than giving birth, but
I have gotten my nose broken in the 1st and second rounds of a fight only to have to fight on getting punched in the nose for another 8-9 rnds. Birth has to be worse because the pain can go on for hours longer.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
JTG of the PRB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-21-08 01:23 PM
Response to Original message
36. While I have never given birth, and am likely never to give birth, I still give it the edge.
Believe me, I've experienced a very painful shot or two to the nutular region in my life, but I'd imagine the pain of trying to push an object the size of a watermelon out of an opening that is most certainly not watermelon-sized is a bit more painful, especially if done without drugs, legal or otherwise.

Then again, take that one family in Arkansas with the 17 (or soon to be 18, I believe) children. I'm sure by now the kids are just walking out... :hide:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-21-08 02:26 PM
Response to Original message
40. (shrug) It costs me nothing to cede the pain-crown to the ladies...
And it potentially saves a lot of ear-splitting grief.

So giving birth it is.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pleah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-21-08 03:12 PM
Response to Original message
41. Well, I have to choose labor/birth, since I was in labor for 30 hours and then
had to have a cesarean section. Ouch!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MilesColtrane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-21-08 03:35 PM
Response to Original message
43. I had a cavity drilled and filled without anesthetic when I was a kid because I was so afraid...
...of getting a shot in my mouth. (Now, of course, I love a nice long needle full of Novacaine straight to the root.)

But, I'd have to say that the worst pain I've felt is a tossup between a migraine headache, and a severe sunburn.

Both have that, make you want to puke and cry quality.

I imagine a compound fracture is up there on the scream scale.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Mutley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-21-08 04:13 PM
Response to Original message
45. Well, I don't have testicles, and I have not yet given birth.
So, I can't answer this question. :D
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
realisticphish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-21-08 04:46 PM
Response to Original message
46. ibtl
neither has experienced the other, it's a circular discussion
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TK421 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-21-08 05:15 PM
Response to Original message
47. There is nothing more painful than a burn, in my opinion
the pain is constant...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ZombieHorde Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-21-08 07:14 PM
Response to Original message
49. I would guess labor, but just so the ladies know...
Testicle pain is a lot like a really bad toothache.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
momto3 Donating Member (497 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-21-08 09:25 PM
Response to Original message
50. Giving birth.
I have never known a man to suffer for 24 hours or longer from a kick to the crotch.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Orrex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-21-08 10:17 PM
Response to Original message
52. Having witnessed two births AND having been kicked in the plums
I can tell you that all available evidence suggests that labor is much worse.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mth44sc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-21-08 10:21 PM
Response to Original message
53. my vote
though I've had no experience with at least one of the two listed. Let me cast my vote on a broken toe.



Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Lil Missy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-22-08 01:30 AM
Response to Original message
55. GIVING BIRTH! I had back labor that lasted almost 24 hours. Thought I was gonna die.
And the episiotomy - OMG. I couldn't walk or sit for a week.

Back in those days, it was at least a 3 day stay, unlike the drive-by deliveries insurance companies insist upon now.

They wouldn't let me go home till I pooped. And gave me some dynamite before my way out the door. I swear to God, I thought my stitches blew open and my ass fell off. Then they sent me home, in tears and incredible pain.

That was even worse for several days than the actual labor. I cried and begged a local pharmacy to bring me my pain pills, cause I could not drive. They did, God bless them.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Adsos Letter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-22-08 02:28 AM
Response to Original message
57. Well...since there has been some expansion into other forms of personally experienced pain...
...let me just toss "severe ulcerative colitis" out there.

Puking, the distinct sensation of passing shards of glass, and massive, gut-twisting cramping, all at the same time.

I remeber death seemed an attractive alternative a couple of times during those "episodes"...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
1Hippiechick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-22-08 05:32 AM
Response to Original message
58. Hmmmm...women who have given birth will vote childbirth; men who have been kicked will vote "kick"
won't they?

:shrug:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-22-08 05:37 AM
Response to Original message
59. only a man would ask that
yes INDEED
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LibertyLover Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-22-08 10:08 AM
Response to Original message
61. You didn't mention a good, old fashioned gallstone colic
attack. I wince when I hear that people are having them having been through it myself.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Mendocino Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-22-08 10:10 AM
Response to Original message
62. How about extreme gout?
Imagine a redhot lagbolt slowly being screwed into your big toe. Worse than a kick to the groin and I'm not qualified to comment on childbirth.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DarkTirade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-22-08 10:11 AM
Response to Original message
63. Long term pain vs. short term pain, both in our most sensitive bits...
even though I'm a guy I'd have to say labor pains are a bit worse.

Unless you get kicked in the hemina heminas by Chuck Norris.

Then it hurts so much that even your grandchildren who aren't born yet become sterile.

I'm not sure how that works, there's some space-time folding involved.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Thu Apr 25th 2024, 06:12 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » The DU Lounge Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC