God I hate this shit! . . . No, not that shit, THIS SHIT!!!

[ashling]

As some of you know, I am a re-grouping (no, not groping) Baby Boomer. I have a J.D., used to practice law, and am now a grad student in History and Government and a graduate teaching assistant. This semester I am helping with an online course in Criminal Law. The instructor for this course is a local judge.

I really enjoy working with the students, as they are scattered all over, etc. It is invigorating. Many of the students are non-traditional students (like myself) who have gone back to school. However, some of the students take the "online" part a little to literally.

I just read an extra credit report on Jeffrey Toobin's The Nine. I wasn't even grading it, I was just getting it ready for the Judge to grade. I only read it all the way through because it seemed so opinionated. The more I read, the more I felt that it was too gramatically correct. So I googled one of the sentences.

Seems she found the whole thing online. It was lifted verbatim from - of all the Godawful places - The National Review.

So I went back and read an earlier assignment. It was a review of Scott Turow's Ultimate Punishment, that he wrote while on the Illinois Commission reviewing the death penalty. The first thing that struck me was how glowingly it talked about Turow (definitely not the National Review) So I google a sentence at random and came up with a web site full of reviews, with this one on top. She didn't even have to dig for it!!! Not only is she a slacker, but she is a slacker slacker!

:argh::argh::argh::argh::argh::argh::argh::argh::argh::argh::argh::argh::argh::argh::argh::argh:


:mad: :mad::mad: :mad::mad::mad: :mad::mad: :mad::mad::mad: :mad::mad: :mad::mad::argh:

[AlCzervik]

1. Not too bright! Now what happens?

[ashling]

8. I haven't decided.

Firing Squad? ... hmmmm ... Vampire Bats? ... I think that one has a nice bloodsucking touch to it ....

For starters,if I have anything to say about it, she will receive a 0 on those two reports which won't really matter, because she will automatically fail the class anyway. But first she will twist slowly in the wind when I call her in for a conference. I will begin by telling her how proud I was of her reports and that I was very impressed. . . . nothing ..... then I will say that I was somewhat confused, however, that she was so critical of Toobin, and ask her for more of her thinking on that ..... etc., etc.,

Actually, I am not that mean ... well, really, I am , but not THAT mean ... except when some slacker student tries to pull some shit like this!

[harmonicon]

22. too nice

I never knew anyone who pulled that kind of shit, but where I went to college, that kind of thing would get you expelled from the entire university. Doing a shitty-ass job and just copying the odd sentence or two from disparate articles would only get you kicked from the class, or give you a 0 for that assignment.

[Droopy]

2. When I was in school that was grounds for removal

As in, "Adios! Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out."

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

3. I hate that shit, too.

I teach a couple of college courses, too, and I warn them about plagiarism and that I'll know it when I see it. If it's too smooth, too well-written (most undergrads can't write for shit) I google it, and sure enough -- It's only happened a couple of times, but it's an automatic F for the assignment, at a minimum, even disciplinary action by the school. Idiots.

[Adsos Letter]

4. I'm in a Graduate History program myself...

sounds like there is gonna' be some talkin' with the course professor, student, and department chair...immediate failure in the course, plus review of all previous work, if not outright dismissal...that's the way it would work here, anyway.

Damn...and higher education is supposed to contain a healthy amount of learning how to think... :shrug:

[ashling]

6. You can be sure of it.

I sent the Judge an email w/ the subject line: The Big P. I started to copy the department chair, but I thought I would talk to the Judge first.

I'm thinking of puttin an announcement about plagiarism on Blackboard just to see what comes out of the woodwork.

[ashling]

5. A history prof friend of mine got a paper

some years back but not THAT far back) that was about the Frederick Jackson Turner thesis that was delivered in 1893.

The report began "50 years ago when Frederick Jackson Turner delivered his Frontier Thesis."

The Dumb never goes away.
:rofl:

[Adsos Letter]

7. That's classic!

And you are right about the undergrad writing...the level of it is often surprisingly poor. I am also over 50 (52) and returned to school last year after retiring. I earned my BA in 1991, so I thought I would go the next step.

[ashling]

9. I went to a private (Methodist - not SMU) college

and I don't think that the level of writing I see here would have lasted very long there.

[cbayer]

10. Wait a minute, the rules may have changed.

There are people who express some things much better than I and I can find their stuff really easy on-line. Sometimes I agree with only a few exceptions. Other times, I disagree and think I have a better argument.

I think that these days the real challenge is to find these writings, present them and then argue and/or agree with them. You have to say why, you have to back it up with real data - also readily available on-line.

Maybe our mistake is expecting for them to submit something that contains nothing but their own ideas. I might challenge the student to defend or defeat the pieces she plagiarized. Seems fair to me.

[Adsos Letter]

11. ...this is the result of the influence that Englishman has had on you...

...combined with living on that island... :hide:

:hi:

Edit: the problem arises when someone presents someone else's ideas, thoughts, etc. as their own. Unacknowledged "borrowing" is the problem.

[cbayer]

17. Nanny nanny neener

Your are just so jealous, aren't you.

Let me make it worse.

Last night, we were sitting out in the cockpit watching the stars and I suddenly heard noises that were new (easy to pick up when there is so little noise). I looked around and saw a sight I will never forget. A very large school of fairly big fish (I'd say 12- 14 inches) were being pursued for supper by a group of seals. The fish were trying to hide under and around the boat and the seals were moving like lightning to get them.

Ok, the really cool part. The water was full of phosphorescent algae. At first I thought I was having some kind of flashback or hallucinations, but the Englishman confirmed what I was seeing. They put on the most magnificent show for almost an hour.

Bet you don't get to see that in your little chimney.

:hi:

[Adsos Letter]

19. ...chimney...?

...Madam, if I saw all of that in my chimney I would KNOW I was having a flashback... :rofl:

Sounds lovely... :hi:

[ashling]

14. I have no problem with using non original thoughts

in context or in support, but they need to give credit for those ideas. To lift the whole thing out of another person's work is innexcusable!

Especially since they have been told the rules over and over. First in orientation, then it is on school web site, There are all sorts of resources explaining what plagiarism is & how to avoid it.

If nothing else, it is a simple failure to follow instructions. This is college, not a Montessori school.

[crimsonblue]

12. A lot of high schools these days

have signed up with services that catalog and archive essays and papers. schools send in (either physical copies, or hard disk digital copies) all of the papers they have in their own files. when a teacher assigns a paper, they simply upload each paper onto a website and it tells them if it is original or not.

[Captain Angry]

13. Print the materials that were the source of plagiarism

Print a copy of your university's conduct agreement or whatever they're called there. The one that says mandatory expulsion for this sort of thing, highlight the appropriate parts of everything, and turn it in.

These people need to fail, and fail publicly. I have a professor that tells people at the beginning of the semester that if you're caught doing that, you're not just going to get a zero, that he'll personally petition your expulsion from the school.

They need to have their record at the university tarnished in such a way that they can't even transfer their credits to another school.

I have to bust my ass to get A's. It is not fair to the students who work for their grades to have somebody like this recognized as a peer when they didn't do the work.

[ashling]

16. Don't worry

I believe in second chances, so I am not so willing to be the one to see that they are put in a position where they will never be able to live this down or to succeed again.

However, this is serious and deserves to be handled seriously. The problem is that some students these days (well, probably forever) see it as a joke or at least not a big deal.

[Berry Cool]

15. For help busting plagiarists and improving student education on the topic:

www.turnitin.com

Disclaimer: I am not affiliated with Turnitin in any way, but I did hear of them a few years ago and I find their work interesting.

[QueenOfCalifornia]

18. She'll need

a firm understanding of criminal law- so it seems. Plagiarism is a horrid little crime and when discovered makes such a mess.

I am married to a federal prosecutor - I hear lots of interesting bits and pieces of stories. One day, I will write that book after all.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

20. When I was in graduate school, there was one student who managed to

alienate both the professors (for chronic underperformance) and his fellow students (especially the women whom he groped in class).

But what finally got him expelled was when he plagiarized a final course paper...from an article written by the professor who taught the class. :rofl:

Once out of graduate school, I taught Japanese literature a couple of times, and one year I assigned the students to write a short paper on one of the short stories we had read. One of the papers was about a story that took place in Hokkaido. The student added a personal note saying that the story had made Hokkaido sound very beautiful, and she wondered if I had ever been there.

Two years later, I taught the course again. Another student wrote about that same short story. No problem there, since I hadn't changed the reading list, but the paper seemed vaguely familiar. Oops. This student had copied the paper from two years ago and obviously hadn't read it before turning it in, because it contained that personal note asking if I had ever been to Hokkaido. Rrrrright. :eyes:

[leeroysphitz]

21. Don't be angry. There are always cheaters. Be proud. As aTA you have

done your due diligence.

[Skittles]

23. I would give her an F and sit her down and explain just how serious plagiarism is

it is simply unconscionable to take credit for the work of another

[ashling]

24. Well, I've been thinking about it

The instructor gave me leave to handle it. I was looking at her grades today, and after she gets a 0 on these papers (one of which was for extra credit!) she will have to get a 110 on her final in order to get a D! So I don't think that ther is much hope that she's going to pass anyway.

I am going to talk to the Dept. Chair, and at the very least I am going to have a conference with her and tell her that I enjoyed reading her papers, but I was intrigued that she was so hard on Toobin. Then I'll ask her if she can elaborate. Since I'm pretty sure that she has no idea what was in her paper, she might break right ther. If not, I will ask if her reasoning was the same as the guy from the National Review who, coincidentally, wrote the exact same thing!

Then I'll explain it to her in no uncertain terms that this kind of behavior is dishonest and merits some sort of serious retribution. (However, just between you and me, I am am not looking to get her kicked out of school and ruin her life over this) There are now people in the department who are aware of what she did, and not only will she have to live with that, but she will be watched very closely from here on out and have everything questioned. She has a 10 month old baby too!

[Skittles]

25. good, good

I too believe in second chances - absolutely - as long as they are made to see just how bad a fuckup it was - yes INDEED. You never know - perhaps school and looking after a 10 month old are affecting her judgment, rather than slackerdom. Students must understand there are better choices to make than to resort to unethical behavior.

[ashling]

28. I am thinking of having a conference

with her and giving her the choice of leaving school or working this summer with the Write Center on preparin reports. Perhaps she should prepare a report on the legal and ethical ramifications of plagiarism, including statistics on how many people get kicked out of college for this.

[Eurobabe]

27. Plagiarism is an ugly thing.

Look at my avatar. It still haunts this man.

[JCMach1]

26. Our university uses a service called SAFE ASSIGNMENT

Everything gets uploaded to a central database, gets checks against said database AND the net. It also catches copies of papers submitted at other institutions who use the service.