Are people really this stupid?

[Drunken Irishman]

I was having a heated debate with someone over fascism and brought up Italy and Japan. The person then tells me I don't know what I'm talking about, because Japan was never fascist, since they had an emperor.

Come again?

:wtf:

[NNadir]

1. Um...well then...

In a conversation there is from time to time a place to cut your losses.

I think I'd arch my eyebrows, break off the conversation and then go something else.

[Kutjara]

2. I suppose it wasn't technically fascist...

...because it was basically a military dictatorship, which used the institution of the Emperor (as well as some "Samurai-era" marketing) to justify a policy of empire building. Strictly fascist? Perhaps not. Fascist in effect? Certainly.

[Drunken Irishman]

3. That could really be said for any ideological-driven society.

There is never really a pure fascist, socialist, capitalist state out there. Even communist Russia had fascist tendencies and communist China is now turning capitalist. But for the sake of argument, Japan in that era is perceived to be a fascist state.

[Kutjara]

4. Certainly, it was a far-right authoritarian state.

So was the "communist" Soviet Union, for that matter. I'm probably being a bit pedantic by resisting the temptation to label all such regimes "fascist," but I think it dilutes the concept to use it indiscriminately. Italian fascism, German national socialism, Japanese militarism: all grew out of particular cultural and social histories. If we're to be able to identify the same factors in our own society, we should be careful to separate one brand of evil from another.

For the purposes of your conversation with your "friend," however, fascist will do nicely.

[Drunken Irishman]

5. That isn't even the most absurd thing about the conversation.

We were talking about political candidates and I said I was for Obama. He told me he didn't think either Clinton or Obama had the experience to lead. So I asked if he was supporting McCain, and he told me no -- he was supporting some dude named Root (libertarian). I asked him what his experience was and he told me it was making himself a millionaire.

I told him that I didn't agree with that type of experience. He said he did and I brought up Bush, who he said he voted proudly for twice. The conversation deteriorated into me suggesting what he had proposed (business running everything) was fascism -- which took us to Japan and Italy.

He didn't like that very much.

[Kutjara]

6. Isn't it amazing...

...how, for some people, the fact that someone is rich is all the qualification they need for running the country? Money is like pixie-dust, casting everyone it touches in an almost sacred glow.

Fortunately, one of the stupidest people I've ever met is a multimillionaire, so I've been immunized against that particular strain of insanity.

[Drunken Irishman]

7. It does surprise me. Here in Utah, that was one of the main factors in supporting Romney.

At least outside of him being Mormon. They talked about how he was a good CEO and made money, as if America was just a company and its bottom line was only the budget. I hate that type thought, because I do fear it leads us down the path of fascism.

[Kutjara]

8. I agree. It may be even worse that you say, however.

At least fascism had some form of values, no matter how badly warped. The current strain of corporatism is about nothing except lining the pockets of the few at the expense of the many.

[Drunken Irishman]

9. Yup, it's scary.

I think these people want to return America to the Gilded Age, or where we were before the Progressive Era. Corporatism will be the downfall of our society when they realize they've pinched out the entire working class. And once that happens, who'll do all the dirty work?

[Kutjara]

10. I think they're probably hoping machines will solve the problem.

Neocon paradise is just a bunch of rich Republicans, whose every need is met by a robot. No working class, no middle class. Just the rich and their uncomplaining slaves.

[Drunken Irishman]

11. I could see it.

Fucking scary, though.

:scared:

[billyskank]

12. I didn't even read your post and knew the answer was yes.

If you ever have to ask "are people really this stupid," the answer is always yes.

[elleng]

13. disputed definitions

Fascism is an authoritarian political ideology (generally tied to a mass movement) that considers the individual subordinate to the interests of the state, party or society as a whole. Fascists seek to forge a type of national unity, usually based on (but not limited to) ethnic, cultural, racial, religious attributes. Various scholars attribute different characteristics to fascism, but the following elements are usually seen as its integral parts: patriotism, nationalism, statism, militarism, totalitarianism, anti-communism, corporatism, populism, collectivism, autocracy and opposition to political and economic liberalism.' >>>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism

[krispos42]

14. The 14 characteristics of fascism

Here's a quick summary:

1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism
   
2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights
   
3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause
   
4. Supremacy of the Military
   
5. Rampant Sexism
   
6. Controlled Mass Media
   
7. Obsession with National Security
   
8. Religion and Government are Intertwined
   
9. Corporate Power is Protected
   
10. Labor Power is Suppressed
    
11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts
    
12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment
    
13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption
    
14. Fraudulent Elections
    

http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/BRI411A.html

And here's a side that takes these 14 points and puts them in context with BushCo. It's rather eye-opening.

http://www.oldamericancentury.org/14pts.htm

[NaturalHigh]

15. In one word - yes.

[Enrique]

16. if having trouble with the definition of fascism makes one stupid

then I'm stupid and I think I have a lot of company. It seems to be one of the more problematic words out there.

[TZ]

17. from my relative the Poli Sci professor

There is a scale that describes different types of government..Lefty types vs. Righty types..Fascism is the extreme end of right wing ideology. Communism is the extreme end of left wing jideology...With democracy being in the middle:
Something like this:
Communism---Socialism----Representative Democracy-------indirect reperesentative democracy (ie president appoints his own govt/parliament)-----Fascism.
Thats an oversimplification of course. But thats the basic definitions