Is cheating on a partner ever okay?

[Chovexani]

That other thread made me wonder, since someone alluded to some DUers thinking cheating was okay. Do you think cheating on someone is ever okay? If so, is it just in general or are there specific circumstances where you would feel it was okay?

I'm curious.

[Rabrrrrrr]

1. If you have to call it cheating, then yes, it's bad.

If you and partner decide that it isn't cheating, then no, it isn't bad.

[DS1]

3. this

if you have to hide it, it's cheating

[Chovexani]

9. Agreed.

Relationships are about trust and honesty and if neither is there, they can't survive.

[theredpen]

60. Yeah, this is a little like asking if murder is always wrong

Yes it is, by definition. Killing may be justifiable in some circumstances, but if you call a killing murder, you are saying that it's bad, a priori.

[WritingIsMyReligion]

107. Agreed.

:thumbsup:

[SPKrazy]

2. no, cheating is never okay

I've known some people who had I guess an "open marriage" or something and they were okay with each other sleeping with others, but cheating on a partner, especially with a commitment of love involved is not right.

[lightningandsnow]

4. I don't think it's OK.

It's, by definition, dishonest. I don't believe in lying to your partner, especially about things like that.

However, I think it's OK to have an open or polyamorous relationship, just as long as everyone involved is aware of the situation.

[Omphaloskepsis]

12. What she said..

[PeaceNikki]

5. Hmm. I don't think it's ever "okay".

Perhaps forgivable. But not "okay".

We're human, we fuck up. A lot. Some relationships can survive. Some can't. Some people can be remorseful and move on. Others can't. Every relationship is a delicate and unique snowflake.

[Chovexani]

11. That's a great point.

"Every relationship is a delicate and unique snowflake."

This ought to be tattooed to people's eyelids or something.

[PeaceNikki]

17. Ouch!! That would HURT!

But, my point stands.

It bothers me when people try to judge other's relationships. If someone you know and care about has cheated or been cheated on, judging whether or not it signifies the end of THEIR relationship is very bold and unfair. Every person has different reasons for forgiving or not forgiving. For cheating or not. Sometimes individuals CAN be truly remorseful and/or truly forgiving and can even gain strength from their difficulties. And sometimes it's a broken trust that cannot be mended. We should each be mindful of what our own situations are and allow others to make decisions for themselves.

[Tyler Durden]

67. YOU ARE NOT A UNIQUE AND BEAUTIFUL SNOWFLAKE!

We are the all singing, all dancing crap of the world!

I just had to say that.

[Chovexani]

90. LOL!

:rofl: :hug:

[Deja Q]

23. Forgivable, possibly...

But this is one of the situations where it is NOT better to forgive later.

Always ask first. The response will be truer.

[RetroLounge]

41. I used to think it was forgivable

not so much anymore. I wish I could forgive. I really do...

Sometimes I think my inability to forgive her hurts me and the kids more than anything. It's toxic.

RL

[PeaceNikki]

49. It's certainly not always forgivable. It's probably mostly not forgivable.

I don't think you should in any way blame yourself for not forgiving.

Every situation is so very personal and unique. The only time I've ever been cheated on (to my knowledge) was in my marriage that was a trainwreck in every other way as well. The cheating was just another brick in the wall. Sadly, the abusive marriage continued for a few more years after that.

I do hope that you and your beautiful kids can move past the toxicity and bask in the love that is still there for each other. :hug:

[RetroLounge]

51. That's the thing.

The marriage was nowhere near a train wreck...

"other than that Mrs. Lincoln, how did you like the play?"

RL

[lizziegrace]

61. Forgiveness may never come

or it may take years. I finally did after the divorce and a few years had put distance between me and that marriage.

In the meantime, it took every ounce of strength to keep Lelapin out of the middle of things.

[LaurenG]

68. It can be

when the time is right or when enough time has passed it might be. :hug:

[RetroLounge]

74. I just don't know...

I feel like leaving town all the time.

I know running is not the answer.

But...

The urge toward flight is overpowering at times.

RL

[Common Sense Party]

97. Urges and feelings do NOT need to be acted upon.

That's a lot of what being an adult and a rational human is all about--sublimating urges, and overcoming feelings.

[Chovexani]

99. Of course, but there's a fine line between

Sublimating urges, overcoming feelings and repressing things until they're not healthy. :shrug:

[LaurenG]

100. big hug

:hug:

[zingaro]

165. I *say* I've forgiven him but

the truth is that I'm haunted by it. He won't work with me to exorcise it so - yeah - I get that toxic sentiment. And it doesn't seem to be diminishing - the hurt. It just changes in acuity and location.

I'm sorry. I know it hurts. Way more than you even want to admit, sometimes. Or at least in my case that's true. It's simpler to put up the good front and keep walking forward even when you want to drop to your knees and weep for days.

*sigh* it's just shit, isn't it?

[LeftyMom]

6. Nope.

If there's a truly consensual agreement that a relationship won't be monogamous, that's one thing, but otherwise fucking around is a shitty thing to do, and cheaters are worthy of contempt.

[Chovexani]

14. Yep.

One of the biggest problems I've seen with polyamory is the unfortunate number of people who come into the lifestyle thinking it's a license to cheat. They seem to think there's no such thing as cheating in a poly relationship, which couldn't be any further from the truth.

If you're violating the trust of your partner by breaking the ground rules of your relationship, whether it is a monogamous one or a poly one, you are cheating and you are an asshole.

[LeftyMom]

20. That's just a perfect description of my ex.

I told him I didn't care what he did, provided I heard about it in advance and had veto rights, and to stay away from that one skank at his work (she was easy, and I figured she probably had something, since she was dumb enough I didn't know if she could work a condom.) So what does he do? Takes the skank home on his lunch hour and does her in my bed. And her dumb ass forgets her bra in my bathroom.

One of the innumerable reasons he's my ex.

[Chovexani]

31. Ewww

Glad you dumped the MF. He'd have eventually brought something nasty home (besides that one trick, heh).

You deserve WAY better than that. Glad you got it, too. :hug:

[LeftyMom]

37. Thanks.

I did alright for myself finally. :D

[DarkTirade]

36. So you replace a cheating ass with a guy who works out a lot and saves puppies.

Sounds like a good trade up. :)

[LeftyMom]

40. There was a non-offensive sofa lump in between.

We're still friends. He's a good guy.

[flvegan]

71. Veto rights?

Didn't care what he did?

Hey...I want to renegotiate my contract.

:rofl:

[LeftyMom]

91. Yeah, that was when I was young and stupid.

I'm still kinda young, but I'm definitely not stupid.

Anyhow, you don't really.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

167. so you were once an asshole and now are no longer an asshole?

[lost-in-nj]

7. no it's not

like others said, if you have to sneak around and hide it...

it's wrong and you know it..... (not you :) )

besides to be the one cheated on is devastating......


lost

[Haole Girl]

8. Ever okay?

No. As many rationalizations as there may be, the correct answer is still no-- just by the definition of the word (cheating).

[hisownpetard]

10. Cheating is never ok. Period.

And if that's what a person wants to do, they owe it to their partner to let them know how they're feeling
and let the chips fall where they may.

[LaurenG]

13. I can't say it is, but then my partner has cheated on me

and the emotional devastation was pretty bad.

[Chovexani]

16. I've been cheated on too.

It sucks like nothing else. :hug:

[AlCzervik]

15. no.

[supernova]

18. I suppose if you're

in a war zone and have little to no hope of seeing your partner again, or someone has a gun to your head, that's one thing and perhaps forgivable.

But otherwise no.

If a person is thinking about cheating, it's time to leave. Anything else is dishonest.

[Connonym]

81. ok not to get to persnickity but if someone is holding a gun to your head it's rape

not cheating

[supernova]

156. Actually it is persnickity

:P

There are areas of grey there; that's why it's a war zone.


I'll put it this way, it's the only way I would be able to come to terms with it in myself if I were the cheater. And it is the only way I could relate if someone else cheated on me.

Bottom line: I'm not holding anyone else to a stand to which I don't also hold myself.

[Connonym]

170. so you're saying if your partner was raped you'd consider it cheating?

[Callalily]

19. There is ABSOLUTELY no

excuse for cheating. If the relationship is not working, then do the right thing and get out! Then you're free to live your life any way that you want!

Cheating is just an irresponsible selfish act, and that's the plain, simple truth.

[lizziegrace]

21. end the existing relationship (completely)

only then should you or your partner move on. Otherwise, there will be too many casualties. No one involved ever wins when one is cheating.

[Deja Q]

22. Anyone who does should be cheated ON...

maybe given a disease as a bonus present too.




That inversely sums up my feelings: Cheating is wrong. P-E-R-I-O-fuckin'-D.

Otherwise it's not a relationship and the doorknob who decided it wasn't should have had the guts to have told the "buddy" it never was anything more in the first place.

[Chovexani]

38. omg omg someone take a screenshot

We agreed on something. :rofl: :D

It's doubly fucked up when there's kids involved, too. Then you get to drag innocent people into your dysfunction.

[Deja Q]

44. It'd be far worse if everyone agreed with everyone else on everything.

Talk about boring... if not programmed; at least we're proof this ain't no cult... :rofl: :D

[Chovexani]

48. Hee!

:hug:

[Fleshdancer]

24. no

I do think cheating occurs more than people think though if you include getting emotionally involved with someone even if you don't have sex with them. Perhaps that's the type of cheating some might feel is okay?

:shrug:

[Deja Q]

26. Huh?

I love my parents. I love my various aunts and uncles. Ditto my cousins. Ditto my coworkers.

Are you suggesting I sleep with all of them? :crazy:

[Fleshdancer]

28. of course not

I mean falling in love with someone else. The secret phone conversations or online chats. Lying or making excuses to be around that person even though you know nothing good will come from it. Thinking about them when you're with your spouse...that sort of thing.

Cheating doesn't always have to include intercourse.

[unpossibles]

125. that is a tough one

for me, emotional ties/jealousy can be a lot trickier to deal with than physical.

[Withywindle]

25. No, with a caveat.

In some cases it can be forgivable, and the relationship can survive. But that's for the person who's been cheated on to decide, not the cheater.

I can't stand this rigid, judgmental tack some people take about how OTHER people should handle it in their relationships. Assuming Hillary did something wrong for not dumping Bill immediately? :wtf: Some marriages survive cheating, others don't. Some couples have "agreements" about this sort of thing. Some people are more upset by it than others. Are you in their heads and in their marriage bed with them?

But lying to your partner, including lies of omission, is never, ever a good or even a neutral thing. It's possible for poly relationships to be totally faithful, with principles of honesty and caring held to firmly. And it's possible for monogamous folks to "cheat" without ever having sex with another person, just by being dishonest about feelings and desires.

[Deja Q]

30. I double-checked, this ain't GDP, but it's cool.

:D

[Chovexani]

34. Word word and also? Word.

It's possible for poly relationships to be totally faithful, with principles of honesty and caring held to firmly. And it's possible for monogamous folks to "cheat" without ever having sex with another person, just by being dishonest about feelings and desires.

A thousand times yes. And I agree with you on the judging. People have no idea what goes on in other people's relationships and really need to STFU. What is good for me is not necessarily good for thee, etc. Cheating's an automatic deal breaker for me, personally. I've been cheated on in the past (in mono relationships, heh), and no matter how hard I tried I couldn't get over it. But I know that's not the case for other people. The self-righteousness about Bill and Hillary gets me, especially from so-called liberals. People need to get the hell out other people's marriages.

[Deja Q]

42. If people can be affected by others, then in any society where people care about each other,

I think "getting the hell out" may not be the best thing to do.

After all, if everyone is too much separated from society, there is no society left. People will do what they please and damn everyone else.

Or, rather, where is the line between "having concern for others' well-being" and "letting people live their own lives, regardless of how destructive they are"?

[Chovexani]

52. Ah, the million dollar question

I dunno what the answer is, personally. It's hard watching someone in a clearly fucked up relationship, especially if it's a friend or family member.

But the problem is people have wildly differing definitions of "fucked up". I've had people tell me my current relationship is fucked up (we're a committed triad), because they can't wrap their brains around responsible non-monogamy. And then you've got the homophobes and stuff...I dunno, it just makes me err on the side of caution.

I tend to not offer opinions on a relationship unless asked, and then I give the straight up honest truth as I see it, with the caveat that it's my opinion, colored by my beliefs and experiences.

[Deja Q]

84. That's cool.

How long have you been committed? (if you do not mind me asking, you need not answer.)

I recall seeing a booth, some 6 or 7 years ago... looked interesting, but upon observation at the time, it was not a popular booth.

[Chovexani]

89. We've actually just done it.

It's been a little over a month, and it's worked out really well so far. I think one of the reasons it's so natural for the three of us is because we've all been close for a long time. I've known the BF and GF for almost six years. I hooked up with my GF first, and it was honestly one of those things where everyone knew we were perfect for each other, we just had to realize it ourselves. :) We've been together about four months. BF's actually been in love with me for years and just never said anything, because for a good chunk of it I was monogamously involved with someone and when I broke up with him, I was kind of bitter on men and not wanting to date any. We hooked up about two months ago with the GF's blessing, and I had a feeling then that it would eventually turn into a triad. We just mesh that well together. She hooked up with him about a month ago.

It's not a perfect situation; we're dealing with distance, and this is the first attempt at poly for both my partners. BF is one of those geeks that has a hard time communicating, but he tries really hard and GF is seemingly infinitely patient, which helps a lot. Jealousy really hasn't been an issue, but all three of us are real comfortable in our skin and with each other. Mostly they are adorable and make me squee. :)

I've done various kinds of poly before, and it just works for me. I'm one of those folks that just can't be monogamous no matter what--I'm just not wired for it. It's not even about sex for me, really. I can (and do) fall in love with more than one person at a time. I would much rather be in a situation where I'd be free to explore those feelings rather than constantly suppressing them and being miserable and then end up cheating. I cheated on people in the past because of that, I'm not proud of it at all, and it wasn't due to anything lacking in the relationship. I was just impulsive and selfish and ignorant of options besides forced monogamy.

The key to really understanding polyamory is the idea that love is not something that's finite; I am madly in love with my BF but that in no way lessens what I feel for my GF, which is even stronger. It's definitely not for everyone, and I'm not one of those obnoxious polys that thinks I'm more enlightened or evolved or whatever for it. It's complicated and requires a lot more of a person and for some it's just not worth the hurdles they'd need to overcome. But it's good for us. :)

[SarahB]

27. No, it's not.

Everyone must define their own boundaries. I'd also define cheating as anything you'd you do behind your partner's back without their knowledge or consent. If you have your partner's knowledge and consent (and communicate, communicate, communicate!) whatever terms you both define are pretty much your business be it monogamy or consensual non-monogamy. Non-consensual non-monogamy = cheating (not cool). If you aren't happy with the terms of your relationship's boundaries, either get therapy or get out.

[Jamastiene]

29. No. n/t

[BarenakedLady]

32. Not a good day to ask.

x(

[Chovexani]

35. Aww.

Maybe you need to enlist Skittles for an ass kicking? :hug:

[BarenakedLady]

45. Nah

It's just me.

:hug:

[FlyingSquirrel]

78. You walk around barenaked, what do ya expect?

oh wait... that's the wrong way around

[Inchworm]

39. Boo!

:hug:

[BarenakedLady]

46. Blah!

:hug:

[DarkTirade]

33. If you have to cheat on them to save the world from immanent destruction...

then sure. You know how it goes, mad scientist holds the world hostage unless the person who snubbed him/her in high school/college/work sleeps with them... gotta do it to save the world.

Other than that it's a little iffy.

[Chovexani]

47. I gave up primo J-Rocker ass for my then-BF.

x(

One of the guitarists of DespairsRay was making eyes at me all night at a show in this one tiny livehouse. HE WAS STUPIDLY HOT. He could barely speak English but he told me where they were staying. I WAS GIVEN THE ROOM NUMBER.

...I declined because I was in an exclusive relationship. My ex still does not appreciate the sacrifice I made that night. My current SOs have given me permission to jump on it should the opportunity ever present itself again, on the condition I provide photographic evidence. :P

[DarkTirade]

50. ... I'm not into the group thing but for that I'd probably ask if I could join in.

:P

Or at the very least, give you a night that made you not regret not going. :evilgrin:

[Chovexani]

54. I never understood the band groupie thing until I went to that show.

It's amazing how quickly my faculties left me and I devolved into a squealing pile of hormones. :P

[DarkTirade]

55. Damn... I need to get a band going. :P

Been meaning to for years and just never got around to it.

[Chovexani]

56. I would have to stay away

:evilgrin:

[DarkTirade]

57. Could you?

:evilgrin:

[Chovexani]

58. I don't know.

:scared: :rofl: :hug:

[DarkTirade]

69. Few can.

:P

[Inchworm]

43. keyword -partner... nope

:hi:

[citizen snips]

53. No

I am trying to hook up with her best friend to get even.

[Solon]

59. My personal belief is that its a form of cowardice and the dishonesty...

is just atrocious. If you want to fuck around, and you are in a relationship with a partner that wants it to be exclusive, break up with them first, at least then you respect them enough to be honest with them in the first place. The first rule in any relationship is that you must be honest with each other, if you can't even do that, its not a relationship at all, but a farce of one.

[Ellen Forradalom]

62. It's human. It happens.

What is means and what should be done as a result can only be determined by those affected.

Therefore I don't have a yes or no answer to this question.

[Blue_In_AK]

63. It's not "okay," but it does happen

and sometimes for the better. I'll admit that I "cheated" on my physically and emotionally abusive, addicted ex-husband, when I reconnected in 2000 with my 1963 high school sweetheart, and now HSS and I are very happily married. It was absolutely the best thing in the world that could have happened to me and to HullBoss, who was also stuck in a very bad marriage. It was the incentive we needed to overcome some serious inertia.

In the majority of situations, though, cheating isn't a good idea.

edit to add that said "ex" cheated on me multiple times throughout our 20-year relationship; I only returned the favor at the end.

[GirlinContempt]

139. Whenever I read threads like these

I think of my parents, and your story is similar! :)

My father was married, had separated repeatedly and tried to divorce, but his ex wife was threatening him with not letting him see his children and trying to have him labelled insane or something. So, he kept going back. He didn't love her, and he didn't want to be with her, and he'd tried to get away, but he was scared to lose his kids. He loved them like mad.

At a staff Christmas party, he met my mother, who came as the date of another employee. My dad fell head over heels in love with her, chased her (she said no for the LONGEST time because he was married), finally had their first date on Valentines Day. The rest is history. Yes, he cheated on his wife. Yes, that's not a good thing. But, my parents have been married for 25 years and together for over 28 or 29, they love each other. My father has never strayed. He isn't the type to do so. Even my grandmother condoned his 'cheating' at the time, and that is something!

However, in general, cheating, no thanks. Never done it, don't think I ever will, think it's bad. Yeah.

[Blue_In_AK]

162. Thanks for the understanding.

I was feeling drastically outnumbered here. I stayed faithful to my ex through some really excruciating times ... binges, coke runs, extended prison stays, fights too numerous to mention -- that's what passion will do to you sometimes -- but I am so glad that's all behind me and I'm leading a nice quiet life now. I've had enough drama in my life for 10 lifetimes. I was getting too old for all that nonsense.

[Midlodemocrat]

64. There was a thread about this a while back and I got flamed for being judgmental

because I don't believe cheating is ever okay. Rather than humiliate the person, leave the relationship. That way everyone's dignity remains intact.

JMHO. YMMV.

[SOteric]

70. I just happen

to see it your way.

If a couple has an open relationship, then it's not cheating. But if they've agreed to be exclusive there's no good, right or valid reason for an affair outside the relationship.

[PassingFair]

65. Could you respect someone who had TWICE taken back a cheating spouse?

And yes, I'm thinking Ginnifer Flowers and Monica Lewinsky here.
Among OTHERS if "leopards don't change their spots"...

[Muttocracy]

82. one of her judgement calls I don't get nt

[Chovexani]

87. Not my marriage.

I don't judge.

[zingaro]

166. But what business is it of yours? Or anyone else's for that matter?

The Clinton's shit is their shit. My shit is my shit. Yours is yours.

Seriously, the decision to "take back a cheating spouse" is an amazingly intricate one. There are life factors involved, families, homes, LIVES... it's not always just about a leopard changing their spots and someone *taking* it.

I always thought that if my dh cheated I'd toss his sorry ass to the curb without turning back to see if he knocked his brains out when he hit the pavement. However, as often happens, reality doesn't always match up with one's fantastic imaginings. And the choices I had to make were mine alone to make. I can't foresee whether the choices I made were right or wrong but I know that they're the ones that were best for my entire family, not just my wounded pride and shattered heart. It was HARD to react from a big-picture place and so the notion that someone might lose respect for me because I put my family's needs before my own is just a little hard to swallow.

[NNadir]

66. No.

In my view, love involves trust and faith.

[Skittles]

72. no, it is sleazy and disgusting

either fix it or end it - do not disrespect people in such a hideously cruel fashion

[terrya]

73. Never. Under any circumstances.

[enigmatic]

75. no n/t

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

76. Cheating Is Never Ok, And Is Always The Act Of A Selfish Coward.

If you don't want to be in a commitment, you end the commitment. It really is quite that simple. All it takes is a modicum of integrity to do the right thing.

[Adsos Letter]

77. No.

that's a bell that once rung can't be un-rung...

[MilesColtrane]

79. Better question: if you do "fuck up" and cheat on your partner...

..should you tell them in an effort to be completely honest and to possibly assuage your guilt, or do you spare them the pain and carry your secret to the grave?

[PeaceNikki]

88. That is an interesting question indeed.

And I am sure there are very passionate and strong opinions on both sides. I bet that would make a heated flamewar here.

Eeek... I'll just lurk on that discussion.

[Chovexani]

92. I've been both cheater and cheated on

And I have to say I'd rather know about it, so I can know what I do to process it.

I cheated once, in a couple different relationships. I'm not proud, I'm still extremely ashamed of myself. Both times I came clean about it because I couldn't deal with the crushing weight of the guilt. The one time, it was over a result, and it was best for both of us. The second, he forgave me, and we stayed together about five more years without any further incidents (we ended up breaking up over other stuff). I was in my teen years back then, which is the only excuse I can give for my awful behavior.

I am a firm believer in communication, communication, and more communication. So I can't ever get on board with the idea of "sparing pain". I don't think ignorance is bliss. The foundation of trust is honesty, and if you're dishonest then the relationship is based on an illusion and that's no way to do things.

IMHO, YMMV, etc.

[Adsos Letter]

94. I respect your opinion as someone having been there; however,

I would suggest not naming the 3rd party without their consent...I think their privacy would need to be respected in these matters.

:)

[Tuesday Afternoon]

80. NO. Essentially, you are cheating on yourself.

Don't do it. I haven't and I hope I never do.

[Sultana]

83. Hell No!

I don't think you could justify it but unless your partner is already cheating on you:shrug:

But both will end up as messed up people when the smoke clears.

[Generic Brad]

85. In my marriage - no

But that has been our agreement since the beginning.

It may be different for other couples and other relationships. Who am I to judge? I just know where my wife and I stand with each other on that issue.

[Yavin4]

86. Short of Murder And Violent Assault, Cheating Is The Worst Thing You Could Ever Do In A Relationship

THE WORST. It humiliates your partner.

[TrogL]

93. If they're allowed to watch?

[Deep13]

95. No, all receipts and expenses must be on the record.

Taking money from the business without telling your partner is embezzlement.

Huh? Why, what are YOU talking about? :shrug:

[Common Sense Party]

96. Cheaters suck. Always. There is no excuse.

If you're unhappy, be an adult, break it off. Then go sow your oats.

Cheating is always dishonest. And if * has taught us anything, it's that dishonest people suck.

[asteroid2003QQ47]

98. PeaceNikki is a breath of fresh air.

#1-We're human, we fuck up. A lot. Some relationships can survive. Some can't. Some people can be remorseful and move on. Others can't. Every relationship is a delicate and unique snowflake.

#2-"It bothers me when people try to judge other's relationships. If someone you know and care about has cheated or been cheated on, judging whether or not it signifies the end of THEIR relationship is very bold and unfair. Every person has different reasons for forgiving or not forgiving. For cheating or not. Sometimes individuals CAN be truly remorseful and/or truly forgiving and can even gain strength from their difficulties. And sometimes it's a broken trust that cannot be mended. We should each be mindful of what our own situations are and allow others to make decisions for themselves."
--PeaceNikki
-----------------------------------
For the most part, the rest of you tight ass Puritans, with your narrow little definition of "cheating" might consider retreating to the comfort of your tunnel of reality to ponder the chicken, the egg and how the timing of their arrival relates to the oft fucked up relationships of the naked ape.

Thank you, PeaceNikki.

[LeftyFingerPop]

101. I know plenty of situations where it is "okay"

Perhaps not preferable, but "okay".

Note: I an not speaking for myself here, but it makes my blood boil when people do not open their eyes to all that can happen in real life.

Then we post our one or two little judgmental answers on a message board, and feel proud.

We have no idea as to exactly what a cheating individual may be going through.

Perhaps he/she is being abused physically or mentally by their spouse, has been for years, can't yet bring themselves to stop the marriage because of either his/her vows, or the perceived pain it would cause the other party, but then again, can't go another year without experiencing affectionate love.

Perhaps one party is an emotionless raging alcoholic who can't be fixed. The other party cannot yet leave this person, because he/she would go off the deep end end die. However, the recipient of the alcoholics emptiness may be about to lose his or her mind because of the abuse and lack of attention. The abused party turns to the love of another, falls in love, and eventually the courage is worked up to leave the alcoholic.

And on, and on.

Open up your eyes people, and get off your high horse. Things happen. Many cheaters are not players, but rather, they are truly abused individuals who are trying to force themselves to a conclusion.

Life isn't a few sentences on a fucking message board, and nothing is black and white.

[TZ]

102. Not when children are involved

My dad cheated on my mother with a truly horrible person. We acutually were made to socialize with her and her obnoxious child.
My older sister and I were quite screwed up by this situation (I was 7 she was 9). And for most of our adult lives both of us had less than normal relationships with men because of it...We became polar opposites, she had issues with too many boyfriends, and I was a long time before I was even interested in men. I still have not managed any kind of long term relationship with a man (I am hetero though no doubt).
Cheating may seem like a little thing, but it can have long term reprocussions. If it doesn't why do I have so many STRONG and unpleasant memories of this woman?
If someone is in an open relationship thats one thing..If its abusive, how is cheating going to help the situation? Leaving helps abusive situations.
Sorry, having dealt with this personally, I have very very little tolerance for this behavior!!:mad:

[LeftyFingerPop]

103. Then in your particular situation...

it was bad, and I am truly sorry.

Let's take a hypothetical though and change a few things. Perhaps the mother was beating the shit out of the father behind closed doors and away from the children. Perhaps the mother withheld love and affection from the father. The father searched for a way to hold the family together while keeping from losing his own sanity.

Shit like this happens, and nothing is one sided. nothing. And we never know the full story until we walk in the shoes. :hug:

[Solon]

121. Then the father is dealing with the situation immaturely and isn't helping matters....

He still comes home to an abusive relationship at the end of his trysts, does he not? What problem is solved by this "solution"?

[LeftyFingerPop]

127. I have no idea if the problem would be solved by...

this solution.

Maybe the dad wants to stick close to the kids at all times, and put up a front.

Maybe he will tolerate the abuse for the children, hide it from them, and go get some love elsewhere.

Here's my point...

You made a judgment based on a few words I typed in a hypothetical situation. You nor I know the full story, because I haven't expounded on it in this situation. We don't know the full dynamics.

There is no way we can know if the husband is making the right decision.

WE ARE NOT HIM, WE ARE NOT IN THEIR SHOES. WE ARE ONLY ON A MESSAGE BOARD, AND WE DON'T LIVE WITH THEM.

[Solon]

130. I was making a judgment based on the information presented...

I can't do any more than that, I'm not a God, and don't have all the information. But given the information presented, especially in your hypothetical, I still stand by my judgment. If the father really wants to hold the family together, he should document the abuses perpetuated against him by the mother, and then file for divorce and full custody. That would be a responsible situation. If he's suffering from battered spouse syndrome, he should, in addition, get help for himself to break his self destructive cycle. Given the way abusive people are, many move from abusing spouses to abusing children soon enough, so it would be in the children's best interest to be taken away from the abuser.

I'm not saying this would be easy for him, but, as in many situations like this, there are right ways and wrong ways to deal with a situation. In movies and television, situations like this are presented in an unrealistic fashion, the abused ends up finding a nice person they fall in love with, and then runaway from the abuser and live happily ever after. The sad reality is that this doesn't happen often, most of the time the abused ends up just moving on to another abuser, and is stuck in a cycle of being battered until they find professional help.

[LeftyFingerPop]

134. again....

He should do this, he should do that....he should do the "responsible" thing...judgments made without knowing the dynamics first-hand.

And you reiterated my point...none of us are "God"...that means if we don't know the minds of those involved, we simply CAN'T render an opinion.

[Solon]

135. Like I said before, I'm offering judgment based on the information presented...

that's my only argument, really, the fact is that there could be other dynamics that mitigate the matter, but I don't see anything that would make "cheating" in the classical form okay.

[LeftyFingerPop]

136. and i'm saying....

that you CAN'T offer a judgment based on the information presented.

[KansDem]

140. "And we never know the full story until we walk in the shoes..."

And this is where we might tend to be too judgmental. I don't know about this particular couple--they seem awfully young--but I've seen older couples (40s and on up) who have in essence "fallen out of love" in that they no longer communicate or share their experiences with their spouses. It's as if they should not be married! I've seen couples take separate vacations and sleep in separate rooms. Maybe they stay together for the kids' sake (not always a good idea) or for economic reasons. And I've seen couples where one spouse just doesn't want the intimacy anymore.

Put all together disputes over finances, child-rearing, and other domestic matters and you have the basis for "wandering" on the part of one or both spouses.

Obviously, a separation is in order--it's just a matter of when. Until then, we're not getting any younger...

[La Lioness Priyanka]

111. no shit.

:thumbsup:

[redqueen]

116. Well said. (nt)

:thumbsup:

[SOteric]

137. I guess it depends on how you're defining 'okay.'

I'm defining it in a way that suggests no one is harmed by the action.

It would appear that you're suggesting that abusive or alcholic people either deserve to be further emotionally wounded or that their pain is irrelevant? And that the abused or neglected person with low self-esteem will somehow be able to rise past berating themselves as a cheat and a liar. (...?) I think that adds too much struggle to an already difficult process. I can think of at least one close acquaintance who would thrash herself for her actions and use that as a reason to give the abuser a second chance (plus new ammunition for abuse in the form of an apology). Such relationships are far too complicated to be easily solved by an affair, no matter what level of emotional connection one craves.

It may not be easy in the suggested circumstances you illustrate to deal honourably with a spouse or lover, but that doesn't mean that a failure to act honourably is in anyone's best interest and therefore 'okay.'

[Phillycat]

142. What a great post.

:thumbsup:

[Crabby Appleton]

104. Cheating is never ok. nt

[Joe Bacon]

105. Sure it is. It's OK if You are Republican

Especially a TV Preacher like Jimmy Swaggart! Every time you get caught, you go on TV and cry like a 3 year old brat and fleece the flock!

[asteroid2003QQ47]

106. Hypocrites please stand.

“I've looked on many women with lust. I've committed adultery
in my heart many times. God knows I will do this and forgives me.”
--Jimmy Carter

(Only applicable to those here who subscribe to ancient superstition)
----------------------

(Another voice of reason enters the fray, thanks for jumping in, philboy.)

[Ellen Forradalom]

108. John 8.

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John%208;&version=9;">"He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her."

[xchrom]

109. i don't do monogamy.

so my partner can't cheat on me.

that being said -- there are ways to do things and ways not to do things.

[unpossibles]

126. same here

although in other ways, there can still be "cheating."

We don't have a lot of rules other than "be respectful of each other's feelings, be honest, and don't be stupid (ie: be careful/safer)" but when they get broken or bent, it can still potentially cause problems of trust, etc. which is essentially akin to cheating, imo.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

110. yes i do. i am disappionted that you of all people dont understand that people

have gray areas in their relationship that others dont know about.

i have grown up around a lot of cheaters and all of them have been wonderful people otherwise.

wishing diseases on people without walking a mile in their shoes, like some others have done upthread is what is actually inhumane and cruel and judgemental.

people's deeply personal relationships have gray areas i am not privy to and its not for me to judge. wishing ill health on people is ugly and tacky.

[TZ]

113. Maybe some of us are judgemental because we have been DAMAGED by this

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=105&topic_id=7480864&mesg_id=7482981
Top it all off the woman my dad was cheating with was a bit abusive to him. We almost had a car accident with all of us one day because she got mad and dug her nails into his hand on THE STEERING WHEEL.
Cheating=lying and I can't STAND dishonesty. I have never cheated on someone and I never will.

[Solon]

117. Cheating is ultimately an act of cowardice and selfishness on the part of the cheater...

This isn't casting judgment on the relationship, just on one person in the relationship. The thing is that, regardless of what excuses are used to justify said cheating, its only in extremely rare cases that it actually changes anything for the cheater in a positive direction. If you want to leave someone, feel unloved, or are being abused, then leave and/or find some help, fucking someone else is great for short term gratification, but it doesn't solve your problems.

[Midlodemocrat]

147. Excellent post. And I feel regardless of how much

one partner has been hurt by the other's behavior, it's still wrong to cheat. Leave the relationship. Start fresh. Keep your dignity. Spare your partner the humiliation.

Tit for tat doesn't work here. Not at all. It just cheapens both parties further.

[EstimatedProphet]

112. No, it isn't

If you are in a monogamous relationship, and there is an established level of trust, cheating breaks that trust. It's the same thing as asking if betrayal is ever OK.

[chromotone]

114. Don't call it "cheating;" call it "Enhanced Personalizing."

See? It doesn't sound so bad now, does it? Take a lead from our present government: it's all in the name.

[IndianaJones]

115. only one outcome...public stoning. nt.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

120. strongly agreed ...

:loveya:

[IndianaJones]

122. its part of my strong judeo-christian traditions. no gray areas for things I deem to be evil. nt.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

124. its part of my high horse religion too

[Iggo]

118. NOPE !!!!!

[redqueen]

119. Okay? That's a judgment call. Understandable? I say yes.

Acceptable? Most definitely.

Preferable? Yes, even that.

Relationships are very complex... so it's overly simplistic to try to set narrow definitions for what is or isn't 'okay'.

[IndianaJones]

123. amen...this subject seems to bring out some very judgmental, narrow thinking. nt.

[mondo joe]

129. I think that's because people imagine it happening TO them, out of context.

And I don't mean the context makes it okay - but it may make it more understandable.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

131. are you sure public stoning isnt in order? you know the boy who cheated on you when he was 15

and you were 14? are you sure he shoudlnt be stoned? i think he should be.

:P

[mondo joe]

132. Who the fuck would dare cheat on me?

I'm Sicilian. ;-)

[La Lioness Priyanka]

133. ...

:rofl: :hi:

[mondo joe]

128. It's not "okay". But it happens, it can be forgiveable.

We do all sorts of things that aren't "okay".

The only people who can really judge are the people involved.

[redqueen]

146. "The only people who can really judge are the people involved."

:thumbsup:

[SacredCow]

138. Having been on both ends of the equation....

I'll say that it's certainly never the right thing to do. But circumstances might make it more or less part of a process...

I "justify" my own transgression with the fact that my ex and I were pretty much through, though it hadn't been spoken. There had been no physical contact between us for almost 2 years and I was craving affection and my years of living a lie were catching up to me. That said, it still wasn't the right thing to do, and it made things infinitely more complicated. If I were able to do it over again, I would have done things much differently.

Currently, I'm on the other end of the equation (maybe Karma is catching up with me?). So now I have to look at the relationship as a whole and determine whether this is a sign of other problems.

[mondo joe]

141. Good, wise post. I've been told cheating doesn't ruin marriages, ruined marriages lead to cheating.

I've come to believe it - though by "ruined" I mean "in trouble", not doomed.

[SacredCow]

143. I can get on board with that....

Certainly my previous marriage was in trouble for some time prior, and one fact that I cling to as "proof" that I wanted to do the right thing is that I repeatedly had begged her to attend joint counseling with me. She staunchly refused (typical- she was the "must keep up appearances" type). At that point, I should have gone on my own but.... I didn't. Granted, given everything that would have come down the pipe, I don't think counseling would have saved the marriage, but it would have made the split less stressful- I'm sure of that.

Bottom line- I will always regret my decision to cheat, despite the circumstances that led me there. I've dealt with it, and I don't dwell on it anymore, but I still regret it.

[NewJeffCT]

144. I can understand it, but I don't think that makes it okay ever

I can certainly see why people cheat or have cheated... it doesn't make it okay, though.

[pitohui]

145. sure we can all think of circumstances where it's okay

say my partner is paralyzed from the neck down in a tragic accident, what's better, i dump my partner and leave him alone forever, or i take care of him whilst occasionally (and discreetly) taking care of physical realities elsewhere

"ever" is a pretty broad span of time, we can all think of scenarios when it might "ever" be OK

[Chovexani]

148. Er, no.

I don't care if your partner was half eaten by a velociraptor, you discuss it first. I really can't stand when people use things like that as an excuse. To me, it's even worse to do that to someone in that kind of circumstance, considering how vulnerable they are.

If your partner does not consent and you're sneaking behind their back, you are engaging in selfish, shitty behavior. Anyone who is the slightest bit reasonable would understand if you came to them and said "hey, I've got needs you can't fulfill anymore, is it okay if I get them taken care of elsewhere?"

But maybe that's just me.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

149. bullshit. you know your partner the best and sometimes things are unsaid between people

and are best so.

if i were paralyzed neck down part of me would know lisa needs to fuck someone else but i woudlnt want to hear/know about it.

i would much rather have it never talked about.

[Chovexani]

152. Eh, maybe I'm bizarre.

I'm not saying you rub it in their face and be like "OH HAI I FUCKED THAT GUY AT WORK TODAY!" I'd never talk about it after the initial conversation. But I would feel obligated to have it first.

Then again, if somebody in my relationship gets a freakin' hangnail it gets talked about to death and processed until everyone is okay. I really, really don't like the idea of keeping things from people, or having things kept from me. Once you start lying by omission it's really easy to carry that into every aspect, and there's probably nothing I hate more than being lied to. I'd rather know the truth, even if it was unpleasant.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

154. no, i wouldnt want to hear about it. what works for you doesn't for others

and this is why i find most people on this thread to be ridiculously judgmental.

who died and made everyone else the purveyors of morality?

this is what i mean that you or anyone else is not in any position to judge the gray areas of other people's relationships.

what works for you is not universal. its only for you. what works in my relationship is unique to me and mine.

[Shell Beau]

157. Why are you assuming relationships have these "gray" areas?

It is quite clear in my committed relationship that cheating isn't ok. And I am going to assume that is the case with most relationships. If your willful actions cause your SO to get hurt when it could have been prevented, then it is wrong.

[Shell Beau]

155. That is you. And she should probably know that about your relationship.

But if it is going to hurt you and she knows that, then it is wrong.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

159. yeah that is me, and this is my point. different people have different desires

and standards in their relationships.

[Shell Beau]

160. Well if the standard of your relationship is not to cheat (which

it is in most committed relationships), then how can it ever be okay?

[Midlodemocrat]

150. Exactly.

:thumbsup:

[redqueen]

163. It's not that it's just you... but everyone is not like you.

I know couples who have 'arrangements'... and in the majority of those, neither partner wants to know.

I only know of two in which both partners are okay knowing about the dalliances of the other.

[pitohui]

164. you discuss it first? why? to be cruel?

my friend, that is just you, it cannot be right to be deliberately hurtful to someone who is already vulnerable, helpless, and in pain

in the real world, there are things that can't be helped, and discussing my proposed sexual adventure with a partner who is paralyzed and can't participate is just shitty and cruel -- you just don't do something like that -- this is a case of where to be "honest" is about how it's more important to feel good about yourself than to make your partner feel good, it's just an unneeded cruelty

here is another situation, a real world one from my extended family, one of you has alzheimer's, there is no capacity to "discuss" anything with the ill individual, who is no longer capable of understanding, or maybe the well partner should do without physical affection for a decade?

btw, aren't you the original poster? why did you ask the question if you already "knew" the answer, just to pick a fight? i made the presumption that you asked to get honest points of view, not an echo chamber

[Scout]

151. NO, it is not ok. n/t

[Shell Beau]

153. It is never ok. Intentionally causing someone else pain that can be helped

is never ok.

[GoddessOfGuinness]

158. "I'm sorry I cheated." "Oh, that's ok."

Somehow, "ok" doesn't seem to work in this scenario. It can be forgiveable, however.

While it wouldn't be my cup of tea, I think it's possible for couples to agree to an open marriage, and not want to know about the other people in their spouse's life. In such a case, I guess it wouldn't be "cheating", but "sneaking around"...which would be "ok" as long as it wasn't flaunted in front of the spouse.

[LanternWaste]

161. All other things being equal...

All other things being equal, I cannot envision a scenario in which an abuse of trust within a relationship would solve any problems-- so I guess I go in the 'Check here for no' column.

[JVS]

168. Only if it's out of spite!

;-)

[greenbriar]

169. NEVER EVER is it okay

to me its a DEAL BREAKER

[Orsino]

171. By definition, it's not okay.

Relationships vary widely, but cheating is a usurpation of trust--whatever the level of commitment and openness the partners had agreed upon.

[LuckyTheDog]

172. No (nt)

[ILovePizza]

173. No, no, no!

A THOUSAND times...NO!

[sendero]

174. I did once...

.... I had permission. The whole thing didn't turn out like the permission-giver planned, but I don't feel guilty about it. It was her that gave permission I never asked for it.

But in general, I loathe cheaters and I would never cheat.

[CreekDog]

175. if you were doing it to prevent from freezing to death

then okay.