So Star Trek sucks, does it?

[Orrex]

I guess that's why I so often hear comparisons along the lines of "Farscape is so much better than Buck Rogers" and "BSG is so much better than Space Rangers."

I mean, I can hardly get through my work day without some non-s/f fan alluding to Firefly.



:evilgrin:

[TZ]

1. Well I know one thing

I've been to TONS of Firefly conventions and all my sci-friends are ALWAYS talking about it (NOT)
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Orrex::patriot:

Me..I wanna start a geek war!!!:popcorn:

[supernova]

2. I watched ST: Insurrection the other night

just for old times' sake.

And the story was really bland. Not that much conflict and certainly not an insurrection, more like a small WTO protest.

[Hong Kong Cavalier]

4. "more like a small WTO protest."

:rofl:

You're right. That movie was bland. Beige, even.
Did everyone phone in their performance?

[Dr. Strange]

5. God, I just had to read the synopsis to remind me what it was about.

Twice! Yep, that was bland. Along those lines, I finally got around to seeing the last ST movie. Star Trek: Attack of the Picard Clones, I believe it was called.

[TZ]

6. Okay maybe it was not as intense or as exciting as some

But I found it entertaining and funny. I liked it better than ST:Generations actually.
But without a doubt First Contact is the best TNG movie.

[Deja Q]

48. Love TOS, TNG has Q and two Borg stories going for it, DS9 and Ent suck...

I've warmed up a bit to Voyager (the reverse-trek) because of its characters, and daring to play with ideas once they dropped the klin... kazon encounters.

[Snarkturian Clone]

59. Voy had the worst characters

except the Doctor.

All the other voy characters can be summed up in one quote.

Janeway- "MMMmmmrraaahh!!"
Paris- "Here we go!"
Chakotay- "My people..."
Neelix- "(insert dumbass comment here)"
Torres- "rooooaaahhR! I'm half-Klingon, you know!!! Have you noticed!!?!?!"
Tuvok- "You fuckin' humans disgust me!!!" (ok he never said that but most of his lines were based on that)
Seven of Nine- "Comply!!"
Kim- "Between my moments of genius are hours and hours of irrelevant stupidity!" (see tuvok notes)

I love DS9 but I could probably do the same with the characters:

Sisko- "Why would the Romulans want to destroy the Flaxians' (unnecessary pause) ship?"
Dax- "The symbiant...so-and-so Dax used to be an expert at _______!"
Odo- see Janeway
Quark- "Gold-pressed latinum!!!!"
O'Brien- "Yes, Commaaaahnder!"
Bashir- "Maaaawhn, have yoU seen Gaahraaahk?"
Kira- see Chakotay
Jake- "(whining noise)"
Kai Winn- "My child..."

[MrCoffee]

3. In and of itself, ST is fine (especially TNG)

But it's not the end-all be-all of sci-fi.

[EstimatedProphet]

7. That's because the end-all and be-all of sci-fi is found in books

[MrCoffee]

8. Well, yeah...but I thought we were talking about sci-fi on the small screen

[EstimatedProphet]

10. Alright, Mr. Picky!

How about Land of the Lost, then? Sleestacks rule!

[MrCoffee]

11. You'll get no argument from me...LotL was the groovy.

[harmonicon]

57. if by "books", you mean Doctor Who, you're absolutely correct.

[IndianaJones]

9. love TNG...like the original...hate the rest. nt.

[DarkTirade]

23. I think DS9 started well and Enterprise got better towards the end.

But other than that I'm pretty much with ya. Not quite so strong a feeling for TNG, but even its suckiest episodes were better than most of Voyager.

[Crazy Dave]

12. That green woman dancing was HOT! n/t

[Heidi]

13. Yes, and my answer may constitute grounds for divorce. So include Monty Python, as well,

if I'm gonna broach these topics. And tne newer Battlestar Gallactica. And Star Wars. And Lord of the Rings. And Babylon 5.

I'm just _not_ that into these. But CMW is. WAY. :yoiks:

[Left Is Write]

14. No.

[LanternWaste]

15. Do the women still wear high heels on combat missions...?

"So Star Trek sucks, does it?"

Do the women still wear high heels on combat missions...? :hide:

[Orrex]

18. Of course--so they can see over obstacles

Why else would they wear them?

[LanternWaste]

19. D'oh! That clever Federation. Genius! Sheer genius!!!

D'oh! That clever Federation. Genius! Sheer genius!!!

[TZ]

20. Okay then heres a question...

In the first season of TNG often times you would see some of the male crew memebers (and females too) wearing what appeared to be skirts. Why?:shrug:

[Orrex]

29. I don't recall seeing those tunic-skirts after Encounter at Farpoint

Except in the series finale All Good Things, during a quasi-flashback.

Not sure why they went with them at all for the series pilot, except as a nod to the ridiculous outfits worn by women of TOS, but having used them once, it made sense to revisit them in the finale.


Still, even as a reasonably self-possessed male, I'd have to opt for the long pants, especially if I'm going to be stuffed up a Jeffries Tube somewhere...

[Recovered Repug]

31. Weren't those "dress uniforms" used for offical functions?

[Orrex]

32. I know what you're talking about, but

The ones that Turtlensue means are the ones that go to just below the promised land, whereas I believe you're referring to the ones that Worf described as "a dress."

[TommyO]

16. Some Trek sucks, other Trek is brilliant

I'm interested to see where the franchise goes in this post-Berman era.

[meegbear]

17. I don't need to allude to Firefly to say Star Trek sucks ....

it sucks outright.

Q.E.D.

[Deep13]

21. No, not usually.

Voyager was weak and DS9 was hit and miss. Also there is the odd-number film curse. Generally, though, I found it entertaining. I just thought Firefly was really innovative.

[DarkTirade]

22. I think DS9 wasn't so much hit and miss

as it was starting up high, and just slowly sinking down lower and lower until I gave up watching it a few seasons before the end. :P

[Kutjara]

30. I agree. They got way too wrapped up...

...in that sorry mix of pseudo-Hindu vedic theosophy and "The Prophets" schlock. They tried to fix it with the whole "Dominion War" arc, but the budgets weren't up to the space opera scope of the story. Finally, ending it all with Sisko off in some extradimensional fairyland was simply beyond lame.

[DarkTirade]

33. Heh. I didn't watch the last couple seasons

but when I heard the final episode was coming out I figured I'd watch it.

About 2 minutes before the episode started... a transformer blew in my neighborhood and our power went out.

So I finally caught it a few years later and not only was I a bit confused because I'd missed most of the dominion war, but I found it to be a wee bit lacking overall.

[baldguy]

24. But ... they have a new movie coming out!

With a big ship and EVERYTHING!

[harmonicon]

58. and, man, is it going to suck

it will suck like Robocop 3.... if fact, it will be worse than that - it will suck like it would suck if there was a new sitcom called "cheers" with characters named Sam, Dianne, Coach, Cliff and Norm done with lots of expensive special effects.

[Snarkturian Clone]

60. I said that about the new Star Wars movies

and was crucified by everyone, all saying "NoOoOoOoO!!! George Lucas shits tiffany cufflinks!"

Who was right? Me.

[harmonicon]

62. yeah, the new stars wars movies were an affront to god

I honestly consider the first one of those to be the worst movie ever made. Nothing could ever compare in shittiness, because never has another movie had the opportunity to soil the memories of a generation of children. I can't remember life without Star Wars - really. I still remember going to see "Empire" on my birthday... I was 3 or 4. I still remember scenes from it by watching them in the theatre. What Lucas did to star wars did to my childhood memories is about the same as if I'd found one of my parents taking part in a bestiality fetish website on the interwebs.

[Snarkturian Clone]

63. Empire came out the day I was born.

The new ones just suffered from Lucas not caring as much as he used to. Plus I guess we all expected better dialogue to come with the better FX... instead we got that same old corny dialogue that worked well for the originals but totally fucked up the new ones. I won't even get into the bad acting.

[Orrex]

64. It was, IMO, a combination of him not caring

And him refusing to let anyone else care, either. If he'd had the sense to step aside and let an actual writer write them and an actual director direct them, we'd have seen three very different films.

There are bits in each of the three that I really like, but not enough for me to say that I liked them overall.

[Giant Robot]

25. And the sooner we all can admit that

The sooner we can discuss how much Babylon 5 rocks.




I was going to say Star Wars instead of B5, but I figure lets go for the lesser known geek war.

[LanternWaste]

26. Babylon 5?

Babylon 5? Aye, laddie-- now that's some science fiction for ya.

[Orrex]

27. B5 was great

Except for the cast, the acting, and the special effects. Also, I don't pray at the altar of the long, drawn-out story, so JMS' much beloved huge arc doesn't really wow me.

Of course, it did have Andreas Katsulas, so that's a point in its favor. A point in ST:TNG's favor, too, while we're at it.

[Giant Robot]

34. Please

You're complaining about B5's cast, acting, and special effects? ST:TOS had such amazing acting by Shatner one can certainly see why you would criticize B5. He set the bar high. Looked at the special effects of ST:TNG or DS9 lately? Yeah they look oh so good now (sarcasm detected captain).

JMS's story writing may not be your cup of tea, and thats cool I can understand that. All the ST franchises had some good stories in them (and some horrid ones too).

[TZ]

36. heh.

Exactly!!:thumbsup:

[Orrex]

38. But the thing is...

ST:TOS was cutting edge SFX for its time, and Shatner's acting... Well, I'll give you that one.

It's not a question of how well the SFX have aged, but rather how good they were for their time. ST:TNG was cutting edge for scifi television; what other scifi shows were on tv at that time for comparison? But B5 was contemporary with ST:VOY, which for all its faults had high quality visuals. If B5 wants to play opposite the big names, it has to make a better accounting for itself than off-the-shelf ray-traced graphics.

However, I will concede that B5 was way ahead of any Trek when it comes to non-humanoid aliens. Pretty much every non-human in the Trek universe was just somebody with a funny hat.

[TZ]

39. Or a beard!!!

Here's another one (although I think I remember Worf making some obscure reference to this)..
Klingons in TOS--guys with goatees....Klingons in other series...Just a LITTLE different.....:rofl: :popcorn:

[Giant Robot]

44. Actually B5 was a contemporary

of ST:DS9 or late season ST:TNG. It's debut was 91 or 92 I believe. The special effects were par for the course at the time, if you place it in the correct context. But I guess I can give a series a pass if the visuals are not top shelf. I do love the original Dr. Who after all.

[Orrex]

45. According to Wiki

The pilot movie aired 2/22/1993, with the series debut following on 1/26/1994, so you're right in that it ran while ST:TNG was still on-air. I maintain my complaint, though, in part because I watched the entire B5 finale, and the effects seemed to have evolved little from the series' beginnings.

There was one scene in particular in which Tron was floating through a space battle in some sort of EVA suit, intercut with closeups of his face. Honestly, it looked like the demo graphics for a cheesy video game. At the same time, one of the Bonehead Women was watching from a command room, and it looked about on par with the average local meteorologist standing in front of a greenscreen.


However, I note that that same Wiki article mentions that the series won two Emmys for special effects, which frankly baffles me.


Oh, well. Maybe I'll just object to the series because it has Flounder in it. And that woman from The Hidden.

:shrug:

[Giant Robot]

46. Meh

ST:TNG's effects evolved minimally over time as well.

But I must strongly object to disliking it because of Flounder. How can you not love Flounder? Jeez you Trekkies must really have no soul.

:toast: This is an awesome geek war.

[TZ]

47. hmmm

I am both a Trekkie AND a B-5 fan..Does that mean I have half a soul?:shrug:

[Giant Robot]

49. It's more dependant on your thoughts about Flounder

Flounder is the key to the soul.

Or maybe I just watched Animal House this week. That's probably more likely.

[TZ]

50. Vir was one of my favorite characters!!

series11!!
Don't mind Orrex though..He's obviously a narrow minded fundamentalist Trekkie.....:rofl:

[Giant Robot]

51. Vir kicked series11!!! ass in B5

But I loved most of the characters.

I am just having fun with Orrex. Honestly if Orrex or anyone else thinks ST beats the pants off B5, that's fine. Whatever makes you happy.

Except for the acting thing. I mean come on, Shatner? Hello? Shatner?

[Orrex]

52. Hey, look--I already conceded the Shatner point

And just how does it fit into your neat little B5 world that Andreas Katsulas was a Romulan before he was a... What was he on B5, a gecko?

[TZ]

53. and you my friend

Have not answered my question about Klingons in TOS vs. Klingons in the other series. Explain that, Mr. Logic!
(heh--how does it feel to be on the other side of a patented Turtlensue smackdown?):evilgrin:

[Orrex]

54. And you call yourself a geek?

The brow-ridge/no-brow-ridge issue was addressed in the final season of ST:ENT, through what I thought to be a remarkably elegant resolution. Whereas Worf in ST:DS9 had merely declared "we don't discuss it with outsiders," ST:ENT came up with an unexpected explanation entirely consistent with Star Trek canon.

ST:ENT has more than its share of detractors, but on this point I think they hit it out of the park.

[TZ]

55. Uh oh...I'm a dork...I didn't watch ST:ENT

I only watched 3 or 4 episodes the first season...So, I humbly ask you, what was that explanation. Now I am REALLY curious....

[Fire Walk With Me]

28. I definitely feel that "Quark" beats "Andromeda" hands-down.

[chknltl]

35. Obligatory "T'pau was hotter than Seven-of-Nine" geek-boy post.

I'd say T'pau made Seven of Nine look more like Six out of Ten! It was those pouty lips!
(Oh and I confess to being in mad-love with Liv Tyler for the same reason)

[Orrex]

37. I think that you might mean T'Pol

T'Pau was certainly a charismatic figure in ST:TOS, and her younger incarnation was quite impressive in ST:ENT, but I don't recall her lips to have been especially pouty...

[DarkTirade]

41. Mmm... T'Pol....

I'm sorry, what were we talking about? My mind went elsewhere for a moment.

[chknltl]

56. Them pointy eared, green blooded Vulcans!!!!

T'Pol was the one I intended... I was unsure of spelling and did a quick search, when I saw the name "T'Pau" I thought I had found the correct spelling...I did but it was for the wrong Vulcan. Pouty lipped T'Pol from ST: ENT was indeed the lass I was refering to.

[unsavedtrash]

40. Tasha Yar

beats them all.
Made my little heart go ker-thump ker-thump.

[Redstone]

42. Uh, don't the people in your office have any actual WORK to do?

Redstone

[Orrex]

43. Hey smartass, has it occurred to you that I might work two jobs?

Job One: Interminable servitude as underappreciated bean-counter

Job Two: Widely admired and endlessly quotable Lounge-poster


I take both of my jobs very seriously.

[Snarkturian Clone]

61. Star Trek is/was/will always be awesome

even when I don't like it (most of Voyager).

Of course, you're talking to someone who likes Star Trek: The Motion Picture.