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BooScout Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 06:37 PM
Original message
What do you feed your dog?
I was chatting pets on another forum I visit and mentioned I fed my diabetic dog Hill's Science Diet, receommended by both my Vet in the States and the one here in the UK now that we live here. Boy did I get jumped on about how horrible it is for my dog....by-products, additives, corn, they test animals, etc.

Is it bad for my dog? What should I be feeding her?
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oregonjen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 06:42 PM
Response to Original message
1. Hill's uses a lot of fillers, like wheat, soy, corn meal etc.
Edited on Tue Jan-08-08 06:46 PM by oregonjen
If you go to a pet store, read the ingrediants of the pet food. If it starts out with chicken by-product and corn meal, it's junk.

Edited to add: Hill's distributes their products all over the U.S. to vet offices and gives them samples to give their clients. They are buying loyalty via veterinarians.
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Coyote_Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 07:08 PM
Response to Original message
2. I have two dogs
One eats Science Diet K/D prescription food. He has renal disease. He was diagnosed at five months of age and is now five and a half years old. The only thing he has eaten for the past five years is K/D. He has rountine bloodwork at regular intervals to monitor his kidney function. For the last four years or so his renal function has been well within normal range. I also feed Science Diet to the second dog.

I think human quality home cooked meals are best for dogs. However, I also think it is very difficult to formulate such a diet for dogs with special dietary needs. I tried to figure out how to do that for my renal dog. Easier said than done - my renal dog would need a diet that is calorie dense, protein, phosphorous, sodium and fat restricted and ph controlled - among other things.
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Orsino Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 07:45 PM
Response to Original message
3. Royal Canin.
The regular stuff for the young dogs, S/O for the post-bladder-stone dog, and Aging Care for the other senior.
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rug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 07:46 PM
Response to Original message
4. Fetal cats.
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La Lioness Priyanka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 07:48 PM
Response to Original message
5. wellness uses no animal by products
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xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 07:49 PM
Response to Original message
6. the postman -- cause he's organic.
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seemunkee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 08:03 PM
Response to Original message
7. Merrick
It looks good enough that I'm tempted to try it.
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LostinVA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 10:19 PM
Response to Reply #7
12. God, doesn't it????
The Evanger's canned stuff, too.
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Madrone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 08:14 PM
Response to Original message
8. Science Diet really is crap.
Not your fault though - it's better than Ol' Roy, and when it's what the vet recommends most people assume it's a safe bet.

Since your dog's diabetic you need to especially watch the carbs - try this for dry:

http://www.naturapet.com/brands/evo.asp

And for wet, these particular Merrick flavors:

http://www.merrickpetcare.com/store/detail.php?c=15&s=2...

http://www.merrickpetcare.com/store/detail.php?c=15&s=2...

http://www.merrickpetcare.com/store/detail.php?c=15&s=2...




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YellowRubberDuckie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 08:20 PM
Response to Original message
9. I feed my dog the same thing.
Edited on Tue Jan-08-08 08:22 PM by YellowRubberDuckie
Anything else TEARS UP her stomach. She loves it, so we kept her on Hill's. She started out on Prescription Diet R/D by the same people. now she eats the light Dry and wet. People need to realize that these are dogs. Dogs in the wild do not eat the good parts of the kill and leave the rest. They eat the asshole, the organs, the nose. As long as it's not making your dog sick and they are energetic and their coats are shiny, why over think it?
Duckie
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China_cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 10:15 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. But they don't go raid the corn field.
And if you look at the Science Diet list of ingredients, it STARTS with ground yellow corn...which means that, by weight, ground yellow corn is the major ingredient. Then you'll find corn at least 3 more times in the ingredients, along with wheat, soy and beet pulp.

Diabetics have different requirements. High levels of carbs increase the need for insulin and make it much harder to regulate dosage to do the best job. Dogs need more carbs than cats (who need none) but they still don't need to be on a diet that, for humans, would be the equivalent of 90% carbohydrates.

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Madrone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 10:22 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. re: Science Diet ingredients -
stolen from the interwebs:

FACT: The ingredient list is full of cheap fillers that are hard to digest. Its virtually a whos who list of the cheapest, lowest quality ingredients possible. According to Science Diets web site, as of 9/6/03 these ingredients are used in Science Diet dog foods. Here they are along with Naturas explanations in parenthesis.

CORN MEAL (corn is considered to be highly allergenic)
SOYBEAN MEAL RUN (referred to as 'floor sweepings'...nothing more than inexpensive filler w/ little or no nutritional value.)
CHICKEN BY-PRODUCT MEAL (questionable nutritional value...much less expensive and less digestible than chicken meal)
PEANUT HULLS (no nutritional value whatsoever, concerns regarding level of residual fungicides that soak into peanut hulls...used exclusively as a filler
CORN GLUTEN MEAL (there is no justification for the use of corn gluten in dog foodsonly a cheap protein filler)
SOYBEAN MEAL (poor quality protein filler. Meat protein is better absorbed and retained and higher in essential amino acids like methionine, arginine, and taurine. Soybean meal has a biologic value less than 50% of that of chicken meal.)
SORGHUM (low digestibility)
BREWERS RICE (lower quality rice product...missing many of the nutrients found in ground rice and ground brown rice)
ANIMAL FAT (byproduct of meat meal processing...origin of the contributing animals is never known.)

FACT: Animal fat is rendered from an unkown mix of animals that includes euthanized pets, roadkill, tumors, fetal tissue, and dead, dying, diseased & disabled animals in various stages of decay that do no meet USDA standards. The euthanized pets often contain Pheno Barbital, which is the drug used to euthanize them. This drug survives the rendering process and thus makes it into pet food. The FDA has confirmed that euthanized pets are an ingredient in pet foods. The California Veterinary Medical Assoc. confirmed that rendered products can legally include dead pets processed in rendering plants. Colgate-Palmolive, Science Diets parent company, owns one of the largest rendering factories in the country.

CHICKEN LIVER FLAVOR (used in pet foods primarily as a flavor enhancercan potentially contain a disproportionate amount of toxins from the blood.)
BHA, BHT and ETHOXYQUIN. All 3 are proven to cause cancer. BHT & BHA are banned for human consumption in Europe and Australia. Ethoxyquin is manufactured by Monsanto for use as a rubber preservative. Yes, the same thing thats holding your Goodyears together is being used by Science Diet to feed your dog. Ethoxyquin containers are marked POISON. It is listed by the FDA as an insecticide and by OSHA as a hazardous chemical.

FACT: Whole Dog Journal, a monthly periodical dedicated to canine health, conducts a yearly review of dog foods. This publication is largely unbiased based on the fact that they do not accept advertising. Needless to say, none of Science Diets products made their list of top foods. In fact, Science Diet Natures Best with Real Beef and Purina Beneful were the only two specifically mentioned as the worst dog foods based on their lack of worthwhile ingredients.

FACT: According to WDJ, high quality foods should contain the following:
1-Superior sources of protein, either whole fresh meats or single source meat meal (ex. chicken meal rather than poultry meal)
2-A whole-meat source as one of the first two ingredients.

Most SD products contain chicken by-product meal as the only meat protein source, and is either the 2nd, 3rd, or 4th ingredient.

According to WDJ, high quality foods should contain a MINUMUM of the following:
1-Food fragments such as brewer's rice and wheat bran. Beware any food that includes several fragments.
2-Meat by-products - any food that contains meat by-products as the MAJOR protein source indicates a low-quality product.

FACT: SDs philosophy is to use the cheapest ingredients possible. Most of their foods are extremely high in both food fragments and chicken by-product meal.

FACT: As an example, here is the ingredient list for SD Sensitive Skin Adult: Brewers rice, corn meal, corn gluten meal, chicken by-product meal, dried egg product, vegetable oil, animal fat. flaxseed, chicken liver flavor.

Notice the ONLY meat protein is cheap chicken by-product meal? It is listed as the 4th ingredient. All the other ingredients are cheap fillers. This is a typical Science Diet product.

According to WDJ, high quality foods should NEVER contain:

1-Fats or proteins named generically (ex. animal fat/poultry fat instead of beef fat/ lamb meal)
2-Artificial preservatives (BHA, BHT, ethoxyquin)

FACT: SD uses animal fat in most of its dog foods. They use BHA/BHT/ethoxyquins as a fat preservative in many of its foods.

FACT: According to SD, a 40# dog requires up to 3 cups/day. The same dog requires only up to 2 cups of Innova or Wellness dog foods. They need to eat more SD because it is 33% less nutritious.

Science Diet is one of the biggest marketing scams in the history of the world.

FACT: Hills is heavily involved in the funding of veterinary schools. They give extreme discounts to young vets in order to hook them early. The nutrition seminars at many veterinary schools are run by Hills representatives.

I agree that SD has a terrific reputation, mainly because of idiot veterinarians that recommend its products. I know most people who buy SD have good intentions-to provide their pet with high quality food. Nothing could be further from the truth.

I dont know how many times I have to repeat this-99% of veterinarians know ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about pet nutrition. I guarantee I know more about dog food than your vet. Dont just listen to me-look at the FACTS. Look at the ingredient list. That speaks for itself.
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China_cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-09-08 05:40 AM
Response to Reply #13
18. I think you meant to reply this to the other poster
because, without listing the ingredients exactly, I said pretty much the same thing. As for knowing more about nutrition than my vet? I'm one of the lucky ones. He removed all Hill's products from his practices (yes, plural...he has 2 clinics) long ago and recently removed the Purina prescription diets.

Much like human doctors (at least how they used to do, I don't know about any more) he has dietary sheets for different needs that explain what needs to be fed to a diabetic, an animal in renal distress, weight control, etc.

Even my cats like going to see him.
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LostinVA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 10:17 PM
Response to Original message
11. A mixture of EVO Red Meat, Merrick's Wilderness Blend, and a little raw
It would be 100% raw if we had a large freezer.
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Capn Sunshine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 10:26 PM
Response to Original message
14. My diabetic lab did terrible on Hills
She actually is thriving on good old Purina with some Pedigree canned mixed in.

Hills is all beans judging by the awful gas it gave her. I mean awful, too painful for her and dog farts that could melt glass.

None of that now..

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havocmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 11:24 PM
Response to Original message
15. Hill's almost killed my last dog. Started making her food and she thrived
90 Pound Hound gets homemade chow and some milk bones. He also gets some goodies from the table. Loves steamed broccoli.

Pitcarn's book on natural pet care has recipes and it is easy to make up a batch, then package and freeze it.
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TankLV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 11:39 PM
Response to Original message
16. Don't feed anything with corn - corn has TONS of sugar.
Corn, peas, beans, beats all contain sugar...

Apples and carrots a lot less...

Cauliflower and Broccoli none at all...they're free foods as far as calories and sugars go...

Ask your vet - they're the best source for information...

Carbs contain sugars and are bad unless in moderation...

Also - don't totally eliminate sugars/carbs either - even diabetic animals/humans need carbs and sugars - only have to CONTROL it...
If you don't get carbs/sugar - you're body thinks its suddenly starving and will look to other sources - fats proteins muscles - and convert them to SUGAR to digest...

Balanced diet - plenty of EXERCISE (do as I say not as I DO!) and WATER is key...

If you think you're feeding your loved one too much sugars/carbs - try to get it to drink more water...

Things with RICE and FILLERS are bad generally - lots of carbs.

Look for food with PROTEINS - they're the hardest to digest and turn into sugars by the body...
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IzaSparrow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 11:40 PM
Response to Original message
17. peanut brittle
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Dawggie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-09-08 05:54 AM
Response to Original message
19. Rule of thumb I just heard from my very bright niece is that if a meat is not the 1st listed i
Ingredient, forget it.

I tried my Lab on Kirkland's Lamb (Costco's) and didn't have much luck. Best nutrition in a bag I could find, but she didn't like it. Then I ran out of food one night and borrowed some Purina Beniful from Mom & Dad and she LOVED it.

I've been feeding this to her for six months now with nothing other than positive effects.
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