Do vegans/vegetarians eat cheese? (need to know b4 I send a gift)

[Wcross]

I need to send a gift to a vegetarian couple. I believe they just don't eat meat but I am NOT positive to what extent they are vegetarian. Is cheese an acceptable gift? I know that one has made comments about how raising cattle for food was wasteful, would that apply to dairy cows as well?

[YankeyMCC]

1. I'm sure the several vegans here will answer more authoritively but

if they are vegetarian cheese may very well be ok.

Not if they are vegan though.

[LynneSin]

2. Vegetarians - depends, Vegans - No

I'm assuming you're talking about milk-made cheeses. Vegans do not eat any milk-made cheese whereas Vegetarians it depends if they are lacto-ova or not.

[Omphaloskepsis]

3. I would send something else.. Google rennet.

I wouldn't roll the dice on this one.

"Rennet is defined in Webster's Unabridged Dictionary as "the lining membrane of the fourth stomach of the calf (and/or) a preparation or extract of the rennet membrane, used to curdle milk, as in making cheese…." Rennet is also used broadly to describe any enzyme used for the coagulation of milk in the process of making cheese."

http://www.wholefoodsmarket.com/products/specialty/rennet.html

[China_cat]

31. There is a vegetarian rennet.

If you'd like, I can look up the cheese makers that use it for you.

[RebelOne]

4. I'm a lacto-ovo vegetarian, which means that I eat dairy food.

At least I know that the animals are not being killed for the eggs, milk and cheese. But I do know that vegans do not eat dairy products of any type.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

5. vegetarians do, vegans dont.

[Wcross]

6. I guess I will call someone close to them and ask.

This is confusing. It is REALLY good cheese made in my area. I received some from work for Christmas & it was delicious. I thought I would send some to a few people. I will definitely NOT include the "summer sausage" in the gift pack.......

[flvegan]

7. Most vegetarians do. Vegans do not.

I would ask them, however, especially with the comment they've made according to your last statement. Some vegetarians don't eat any animal products (including cheese) but don't go the full vegan route.

[Deep13]

8. "Vegans" do not use any animal products.

I don't know if that is true for absolutely all self-identified vegans, but it seems to be true generally.

Vegetarians often do use nonlethal products. Some eat fish.

[Boojatta]

10. Some people who claim to be vegetarians eat fish.

However, that's definitely not in accordance with the standard meaning of the word "vegetarian."

I'm sure that there are some 8-year-olds who claim to be gangsters, but are not, and some actual gangsters (usually older than 8) who claim to not be gangsters, but are.

[Deep13]

11. I know many self-described vegetarians who eat fish.

That includes my wife. She tries to avoid it, but in the cultural desert of the suburban Midwest, it is a compromise she made in order to function here without the quest for non-animal protein occupying her life. Eating salmon and tuna does not contribute to agricultural pollution. It's not pumped with steroids or antibiotics. I guess in your mind, though, she may as well be eating veal. Why don't you and your high horse just back up a little. After all, it is a dietary choice, not a fucking religion.

[Boojatta]

12. Don't Catholics traditionally eat fish on Fridays?

It sounds as though some people connect dietary choices with religion.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that Catholics were permitted to eat fish on days other than Friday. However, unless I'm mistaken, on Fridays they ate fish but otherwise avoided eating flesh of creatures that have brains, eyes, etc.

Now, would you say that a Catholic who treated every day like a Friday was in fact a vegetarian? What word would you use to describe people who not only are what you call "vegetarian", but also never eat fish?

[Deep13]

14. We're done here. nt

[pink-o]

32. I'm an ovo lacto veg. Fish is not vegetarian.

My friend who eats fish but no red meat, chicken or pork calls himself a "pescatarian." or a Pesca-vegetarian. Maybe that helps define it.

But think of it like this: You don't take the fish-heads, plant them in the dirt, then water them and hope they grow into trout. IOW, if it shits or spits it's not veggie matter.

[ThomCat]

20. Regardless of what they claim

You are are absolutely right, people who eat fish or fowl are not vegetarians. They're eating meat. :shrug:

[LeftyMom]

13. Vegetarians don't eat fish. Fish are animals. nt

[Deep13]

15. See post #11.

Scientifically they are, but in traditional parlance there has always been an implicit distinction between "animals" and fish, birds and reptiles.

Put it another way: if someone avoids meat almost all of the time but on occasion eats fish is it more accurate to say that person is vegetarian or carnivorious? "Vegetarian" is someone who eats vegetables and is not necessarily negatively defined. Suppose some dude eats nothing but crap from McDonalds. Once a month he also has a salad. Can he honestly say he eats his vegetables? By your all-or-nothing language he can.

[flvegan]

16. "implicit distinction between "animals" and fish, birds and reptiles."

So birds...like, say chickens and turkeys?

:popcorn:

[LeftyMom]

17. A person who eats some meat is an omnivore, not a vegetarian.

Fish are animals. Vegetarians don't eat animal flesh. Period.

As an aside: Whether wild-caught or farmed, fish consumption is a poor environmental choice, and fish can suffer a great deal as they are "harvested" (and during confinement for farmed fish.)

[WritingIsMyReligion]

19. I would disagree some with the "traditional parlance" bit but agree that you can still eat fish and

be vegetarian. I know a few who go that way--they're vegetarian for emotional/ethical reasons but don't extend that to fish. Having seen fishing happen, both recreationally and on the commercial scale, I would say it's far less tormenting/tragic than other forms of animal harvesting and far less likely to be fraught with "steroid" issues or abuse. I'm neither vegetarian nor vegan, though, having a mad passion for fish and certain kinds of meat, so I don't know if that would automatically disqualify me from discussing this.

[ThomCat]

21. You can't eat fish and be a vegetarian.

You can say you're on a restricted diet. But that diet is not vegetarian. Fish is not a plant. :shrug:

[WritingIsMyReligion]

23. I guess we're defining "vegetarian" and who is or isn't one differently.

You're going for the by-the-book definition, which is fine; by that, then yes, I agree, such people would not be vegetarians. But I don't think that matters so much as far as practicing diets go. I was talking more about how people define themselves, and PLENTY of "vegetarians w/ caveats" just go on and identify themselves as vegetarian, to simplify things. As long as you or no one else is suggesting that we should strictly "limit" vegetarianism and who is "truly" a vegetarian, as if it were some exclusive club or something, I don't think we disagree, and I don't think anyone on this thread is trying to make vegetarianism/veganism out to be some sort of strict round table.

[ThomCat]

30. That's fine. People can call themselves whatever they want.

They can call themselves Martians too. That doesn't make it true. :shrug:

[WritingIsMyReligion]

43. You are correct, of course.

:)

As far as vegetarianism goes, however, I don't see too much of a point in what I see as splitting semantical hairs--what's important for me is the generally shared devotion, among all forms of vegetarianism and veganism, to doing something either for health reasons or ethical reasons or both. I heard once (Wikipedia? as strange a source as that is) that ultimately vegetarianism and veganism are called "plant-based diets," since they seek to remove animals from human consumption, in whatever level of strictness. To me, therefore, it doesn't particularly matter where one draws the line--a "plant-based diet" can be all plants and plant-based products or mostly plants. As long as the majority of the diet is "plants" and "plant-products," it would be a "plant-based diet," would be something like vegetarianism, at least, even if not "fully" or technically so. I know too many self-identified vegetarians who don't mind eating fish to particularly care whether or not they are "true" vegetarians, when strict semantics gives one definition of vegetarianism, popular culture gives another one, etc., etc. I suppose just specifying "vegetarian" might help, saying "pescovegetarian" or "pollovegetarian" or what-have-you.

:shrug:

:)

[yewberry]

44. It's actually kind of a hard thing to talk about honestly.

I know it sounds like hair-splitting, but there really is a good reason to make clear distinctions.

I'm all for people being able to self-identify any way they want, but real problems can arise as a result.

People who call themselves vegetarians but eat chicken and/or fish are the reason that I've been served chicken caesar salad as a "vegetarian meal." Same thing goes for being served cream cheese and vegetable sandwiches as a vegan meal. It really puts people in an uncomfortable situation--I mean, I don't want to be the freaky vegan bitch sending back the pasta primavera, but otherwise, I just go hungry (again). You just can't win in that situation.

So, really, it is hard to get through this conversation without hard feelings, but that's the reality for those of us who argue for the clearest distinctions.

It'd be easier for many of us if people who eat animals wouldn't call themselves vegetarian.

[WritingIsMyReligion]

45. Unfortunately for those of you who are strict with this kind of stuff, I'm not sure change is coming

I don't mean strict as a slur or anything, either--I completely understand your frustration, at least intellectually, as I am a voracious meat-eater and so don't have first-hand experience with veganism or vegetarianism. I think it would make the most sense of all for restaurants to just say what the hell is in a vegetarian salad, to save time and wastes on money on behalf of the consumer, but I'm sort of certain no restaurant could be bothered to do such a thing. It would certainly save time arguing over who's a vegetarian and who isn't on an internet messageboard. :D

[yewberry]

47. Got that right.

It's just pretty much impossible to get everyone on the same page, though it'd be a far sight easier if we could.

Meh, pass the salad.

:)

[IcyPeas]

9. rennet-less cheese is available.....

Trader Joes sells some vegetarian cheeses as does Whole Foods Market - on the label it will say "enzymes" instead of rennet. (some of them even say "rennetless"). They are out there -- also I believe some Jewish/Kosher cheeses are also rennet free.

I am a vegetarian and I consider rennet to be a "meat product" although I am not a vegan. I won't eat things made with chicken stock for example. It grosses me out when I think of rennet. :)

[WritingIsMyReligion]

18. Vegans eat no animal byproducts whatsoever, I would say.

No milk, no cheese, no eggs, no nothing--if it comes from an animal, even if the animal doesn't die in the process, it's not acceptable. Much stricter.

Vegetarians generally eat no meat or products that result in the direct death of an animal but will eat cheese, milk, eggs, etc.--the so-called "non-lethal" byproducts. Some vegetarians eat fish/seafood but not "land" (for lack of a better word) meat--my aunt is this, as she will eat fish or lobster or what have you but not steak or pork or chicken or anything like that. Some very strict vegetarians call that bullshit and say that you're not a vegetarian if you still eat fish, but I think that's quite silly, seeing as aside from the pollution issues, fish (at least where I'm from) are generally not "farmed" or pumped-up with steroids or any ethical issue like that, and they sure don't suffer long, to whatever extent fish can suffer.

I'd check, perhaps with any mutual friends to keep the surprise, as to where the vegan/vegetarian line falls with regards to this couple before sending the cheese. I doubt the couple, even if vegan, would be offended by sending cheese, so in general I'd say, sure, send away. :)

[Genevieve]

38. Vegetarians do not eat animals. period. --

No animal protein -- and a fish IS an animal.

The word you are looking for is "pescatarian": those who abstain from eating all meat and animal flesh with the exception of fish.

And yes, there is PLENTY of farmed fish.

[WritingIsMyReligion]

46. Or just "pescovegetarian."

Sorry if that offends any vegetarians or anything, but it's a perfectly legitimate word--you eat plants and plant by-products and you also eat fish. It's in fairly common usage as well.

"Pescatarian" is good too, though I guess one could make the claim that if vegetarian ONLY and ONLY EVER means eating just plant matter, then hell, why doesn't pescatarian mean eating just fish and fish matter? A word for the insolent as well as the accurate. :)

[CTyankee]

22. No cheese, honey (bee exploitation , eggs, for vegans. also don't buy them silk products, as well as

leather (exploits silk worms).

[WritingIsMyReligion]

24. I forgot honey.

Honestly, that one's a little puzzling to me, since my family has honeybees and they're by no means "exploited," but I suppose there's a difference between 3 hives in my backyard and the vast bee-fields of the commercial world. I have heard the stories of the bees that are carried out on tractor-trailer trucks like migrant workers, and how quickly they die, but those are making up for a bee shortage.

Thanks for the reminder. :hi:

[sarge43]

25. Could you explain how keeping bees just for their honey is exploiting them?

The commercial pollinators could be another matter - the jury is still out on that one.

[CTyankee]

28. No, I can't. but my son's ex-wife is a vegan and honey was a no no for

that reason. Ditto silk, which I don't get either. IT's not like they're killed.

[sarge43]

33. Well, I understand why vegans won't use honey. It's an animal product.

However, bees aren't exploited for their honey. They produce it as a matter of course and will do so as long as there is honey flow (available nectar) and a suitable storage facility. A healthy hive will produce far more than is necessary for its needs and it's quickly replaced if any is removed. Modern hives allow honey to be harvested without harm to the bees.

[CTyankee]

34. You know, I thought the same thing, but I just didn't know so I accepted her idea!

I was trying really hard to be accepting of her. Eventually, my son and she had a big argument over having a family, which she didn't but he did was to have, and then it was over.

I still feel warmly toward her. She is a kind and nice person and it just didn't work out between her and my son. But I am kind of relieved that we don't have to put ourselves into pretzel shapes to have her visit...

[sarge43]

35. I get your point and that's always sad when a marriage breaks up.

As for bee keeping (hobby and small business), there are, of course, people who will start hives and not care for them properly, either through ignorance or indifference. Unfortunately, they usually wind up with dead hives. A good bee keeper is a steward, not an exploiter.

[gmoney]

26. Why the need to send food/cheese?

If someone has dietary restrictions of any sort (elective or medical), don't go near sending food. Try something else, like a nice calendar, or a fancy candle, or a CD/DVD, or a donation in their name to The Human Fund.

[mtnester]

27. How abourt sending some fantastic nuts? Or something that does

not have any dairy...just in case?

Or fruit?

Or a gift certificate to their favorite market?

[CTyankee]

29. Nuts and fruits for vegans sound nice. Just be careful of exploitative situations.

My former dtr in law, a vegan, had a kind of list so you'd better get free trade stuff, if coffee for instance. She had pretty high standards (they got married in Canada because they wanted to be in solidarity with gay friends who couldn't marry in New York) which was fine with me as I was insolidarity with them.

[Wcross]

36. OK- I am going to send a subscription to "Mother earth news".

I am a subscriber so they ought to have a "gift rate", right? I have considered everyone's posts & think its better not to bother with cheese. They have expressed interest in the magazine but I don't think they subscribe. (one asked me "to bring up old copies" next time I visited.

[flvegan]

37. That's a great idea and a great magazine!

:thumbsup:

[Wcross]

39. I always get bummed on "off months".

They only publish six times a year so it is a wait for the new issues. F.Y.I., Home power magazine is another good one if you are into alternative energy.

[flvegan]

40. I've got a couple of those mags

every-other-month, so I hear you.

I'll look up that home power one as I'm planning on having solar panels covering my roof in the next 5 years.

[Wcross]

41. Check into the progress of Nano-solar! (no need for "panels")

http://www.nanosolar.com/

I am waiting to see what comes of this technology. Imagine your roofing material producing electricity for 3 bucks a watt!

[flvegan]

42. I read about that here.

The potential...

There's even the possibility of paint that captures the power of the sun.