Paranormal anomaly in Kitty Genovese photo

[MsMagnificent]

Maybe? Perhaps?

I was doing research on Kitty Genovese (died in Queens, NY 1964, was attacked multiple times and screamed for help, 38 witnesses, and only ONE finally called the police after the half hour was up, as she lay raped, stabbed 17 times, and dying. This death and the actions, or inactions of others coined a Psychological term 'Bystander Apathy') and ran across a lovely informal portrait her family had sent to one certain website.
I saved it, and while perusing it something caught my eye. The entire picture is quite crisp and clear, except for one blurry spot on the very edge.

Well, I won't discuss it more here just yet... here is the link to the set of photos on Flickr, in case anyone is interested.
There are written descriptions and my take under those pictures, if you don't want to be influenced by my words while you examine them, just don't scroll down the page yet.

Check them out, and tell me what you think; under the Flickr comments or here...


Does anyone know of any suitable, serious paranormal/Fortean websites where discussion of anomalous material is encouraged?
I mean by interested, engaged, semiprofessional-professsional people -- no complete tools, er I mean total skeptics who debunk everything, no matter how much of a stretch or ignore what they can't explain altogether, 'a la Michael Shermer or Joe Nickell; or those who see a dust particle and believe it's as much proof of ghosts as the photo of The Brown Lady of Raynham Hall :)
Regular skeptics are fine -- I'm one too. There's a lot of balderdash out there, from dust 'orbs' as proof of ghosts to downright and deliberate fakery (for one example of many: Cottingley Fairies); but there are indeed some things that happen that simply cannot be explained.

I would have posted this on the skeptics board, but I recently lost my star and we can't even make our bills at the moment... so that's out :/


edit: fixed broken link, changed a word in title.

[Fire Walk With Me]

1. "Kitty Genovese portrait. A paranormal anomaly?"

More likely a Photoshopping attention-seeker.

[MsMagnificent]

2. Nope

This picture came directly from her family. Same pic is used in websites such as Court TV and http://www.oldkewgardens.com/ along with many others.

It's provenance is well established.

edit: To be precise, here is the exact link on Old Kew Gardens http://www.oldkewgardens.com/kitty_genovese/kitty_genovese-kitty-outside-L.html

[Fire Walk With Me]

13. I don't see how a face in a photo tells us that people are simpering cowards...

...but I'll allow it.

[MsMagnificent]

15. Um..

who's a simpering coward??? *puzzled*

[Fire Walk With Me]

21. Did we read the same first post?

[ghostsofgiants]

22. You were the first person in this thread to use the phrase "simpering cowards."

At least as far as I can tell.

[MsMagnificent]

24. Really? Where?

I called no-one a coward -- much less simpering.

Are you thinking of another thread perhaps?

*truly puzzled*

[ghostsofgiants]

25. I was talking to Peake, not you.

[MsMagnificent]

26. Oops! Never mind!

[Fire Walk With Me]

29. Perhaps others should read Harlan Ellison's response to Kitty's death, and the spectators.

[ghostsofgiants]

30. I have no idea who Harland Ellison even is.

[mzteris]

34. you've never heard of

Harlan Ellison?

[ghostsofgiants]

35. Nope, never heard of him.

[mzteris]

37. You've seen his work - you just don't know it:

even if you never read his work. Which you *should*.

wiki: Harlan Jay Ellison (born May 27, 1934) is a prolific American writer of short stories, novellas, teleplays, essays, and criticism. His literary and television work has received many awards. He wrote for the original series of both The Outer Limits and Star Trek; edited the multiple-award-winning short story anthology series Dangerous Visions; and served as creative consultant to the science fiction TV series The New Twilight Zone and Babylon 5.


HE quote: ". . . he's no fan of George W., and jokingly described a phone call he received asking him if he would vote for the Texan "again."

"That presupposes I voted for him in the first place," Ellison said, adding he would vote for Felix the Cat and Betty Boop before he would vote for a man who can't pronounce "nuclear." "


*****
Other favorite quotes:

Like the wind crying endlessly through the universe, Time carries away the names and the deeds of conquerors and commoners alike. And all that we are, all that remains, is in the memories of those who cared we came this way for a brief moment. Harlan Ellison (1934 - ), "Paladin of the Lost Hour"


“In these days of widespread illiteracy, functional illiteracy... anything that keeps people stupid is a felony.”

“I will use big words from time to time, the meanings of which I may only vaguely perceive, in hopes such cupidity will send you scampering to your dictionary: I will call such behavior 'public service'.”

“I don't mind you thinking I'm stupid, but don't talk to me like I'm stupid”

“I have no mouth, and I must scream.”

******

a few little awards here and there . . .

HE's website:

SPECULATIVE FICTION AWARDS:
Hugo Award:
1966 Short Story: Repent, Harlequin!" Said the Ticktockman
1968 Short Story: I Have No Mouth, and I Must Scream
1969 Short Story: The Beast That Shouted Love at the Heart of the World
1974 Novelette: The Deathbird
1975 Novelette: Adrift Just Off the Islets of Langerhans: Latitude 38° 54'N, Longitude 77° 00' 13"W
1978 Short Story: Jeffty is Five
1986 Novelette: Paladin of the Lost Hour

Hugo Award: (given to production of Ellison piece)
1967 Dramatic Presentation (Movie/Play/TV) : Star Trek - The City on the Edge of Forever
1976 Dramatic Presentation (Movie/Play/TV) A Boy and His Dog (shared with L. Q. Jones)
Hugo Committee Awards:
1968 Special Award - Dangerous Visions
1972 Special Award - Excellence in Anthologizing -- Again, Dangerous Visions

Nebula Award:
1965 Short Story: "Repent, Harlequin!" Said the Ticktockman
1969 Novella: A Boy and His Dog
1977 Short Story: Jeffty is Five

Locus Poll Award:
1970 Short Fiction: The Region Between
1972 Short Ficton: Basilisk
1972 Anthology: AGAIN, DANGEROUS VISIONS
1974 Short Fiction: The Deathbird
1975 Novelette: Adrift Just Off the Islets of Langerhans: Latitude 38° 54'N,Longitude 77° 00'13"W
1976 Short Story: Croatoan
1978 Short Fiction: Jeffty is Five
1979 Short Story: Count the Clock That Tells the Time
1983 Novelette: Djinn, No Chaser
1985 Related Non-Fiction Book: Sleepless Nights in the Procrustean Bed
1986 Novelette:Paladin of the Lost Hour
Short Story: With Virgil Oddum at the East Pole
Anthology: Medea: Harlan's World
1989 Novelette: The Function of Dream Sleep
Short Story: Eidolons
Collection: Angry Candy
1994 Novella:Mefisto in Onyx
1998 Collection: Slippage

British Science Fiction Award:
1979 Short Fiction: Deathbird Stories

World Fantasy Award:
1989 Best Collection: Angry Candy
1993 Lifetime Acheivement Award

British Fantasy Award:
1979 Short Story: Jeffty is Five

Jupiter Award (of the Instructors of Science Fiction in Higher Education)
1973 The Deathbird
1977 Jeffty is Five
(award discontinued in 1979)

Saturn Award (of the Academy of Science Fiction, Fantasy, and Horror Films)
1976 Superior Achievement and Merit in Fantasy Film: A Boy and His Dog
(awarded despite Ellison's work on ABAHD being uncredited)

Georges Melies Fantasy Film Award:
(for Outstanding Cinematic Achievement in Science Fiction Television)
1972 Demon with a Glass Hand
1973 Ciy on the Edge of Forever

Asimov's Reader's Poll Award:
1988 Special Award: I, Robot: The Movie

SF Chronicle Award:
1984 Most Attractive Male Writer

Gallun Award (from I-CON):
1997 - for a lifetime of acheivement in the genre of science fiction


HORROR AWARDS:

Bram Stoker Award:
1988 Superior Achievement in a Fiction Collection: The Essential Ellison
1990 Superior Achievement in Non-Fiction: Harlan Ellison's Watching
1994 Superior Achievement in a Novella: Mefisto in Onyx
1996 Superior Achievement in a Short Story: Chatting with Anubis 1996 Life Achievement Award

Deathrealm Award:
1996 Best Short Fiction: Chatting with Anubis

International Horror Critics Award:
1995 - first ever Living Legend Award


MYSTERY AWARDS:

Edgar Allen Poe Award (the "Usher"):
1974 The Whimper of Whipped Dogs
1988 Soft Monkey

American Mystery Award:
1988 Soft Monkey


OTHER AWARDS:

Writers Guild of America Award:
1965 Demon with a Glass Hand - Outer Limits
1967 The City on the Edge of Forever - Star Trek
1973 Phoenix Without Ashes - The Starlost (pilot episode)
1986 Paladin of the Lost Hour - Twilight Zone

The ViRA Award (of the videocassette industry):
The Most Memorable TV Script on Video of All Time: Demon With a Glass Hand (Outer Limits)

Best American Short Stories:
1993 The Man Who Rowed Christopher Columbus Ashore

Nova Award:
1968 - for most outstanding contribution to the field of science fiction

P.E.N. International Silver Pen Award:
1982 Column in L.A. Weekly: An Edge in My Voice
1988 Special Recognition for commitment to artistic freedom and the battle against censorship.

Encyclopedia Americana Annual - major American works of literature:
1988 Angry Candy

Milford Award:
1990 - for lifetime achievement in editing.

National Women's Committe of Brandeis University:
1998 Words, Wit, and Wisdom Award

Spotlite Award (of the Computer Game Developers' Association):
1997 Adaptation of Linear Media: I Have No Mouth and I Must Scream (with Cyberdreams)

Audie Award (of the Audio Publishers Association):
1999 - Best Solo Narration, Male for reading Ben Bova's City of Darkness
1999 - Multi-Voiced Presentation with the rest of the cast of The Titanic Disaster Hearings: The Official Transcript of the 1912 Senatorial Investigation by Tom Kuntz.

Emmy Nomination:
Nomination year and information unavailable

Grammy Nomination:
(year unavailable) - Spoken word recording: Jefty is Five

[ghostsofgiants]

38. Aside from Outer Limits, Twilight Zone, Star Trek, and Babylon 5, I'm not familiar with any of that.

And I've never really watched more than a couple episodes of any of those shows. I'm just not a big fan of science fiction.

[Fire Walk With Me]

39. kthanxbai

[ghostsofgiants]

41. The hell?

[Fire Walk With Me]

44. Loveyoubyebye

[ghostsofgiants]

46. I'm just going to stop paying attention to you now.

[Elidor]

42. Is that you, Harlan?

:P

[mzteris]

47. lol - no

just a fan!

[siouxsiecreamcheese]

3. most sites are skeptical...

but the ones I tend to frequent the most, that are more supportive, are www.ghoststudy.com and the ghost hunters message board (the taps tv show) www.the-atlantic-paranormal-society.com. If you want total skeptics try www.abovetopsecret.com however some people on there can be openminded.

[MsMagnificent]

14. Thanks!

:)

I think I've been to GhostStudy, but if it's the one I think it is, it was just to look at their pictures (orbs, as 'evidence', drive me nuts! : )
SciFi channel has some very good discussions, with many open-minded (to various points) skeptics; but sadly they limit the posts to only what they've covered on their TV shows... so this wouldn't be welcome there.

Abovetopsecret I think I've been to a couple times, but always shallowly -- I'll go take a more in-depth look at their website.




Word of warning: The following is LONG RANT on TAPS....you may not want to read it :D

TAPS has, sadly, changed as of late. They used to be about scientifically verifiable (as far as possible in this field of study) evidence and at least had a code of ethics. Lately said ethics seem to have been thrown out the door, esp. with the introduction of the Derek-Acora-wannabe Chris Fleming. Especially after they virtually confronted the cast of Most Haunted about their questionable 'evidence' and their use of things like psychics, crystals, pendulums and divining rods. Along with, of course, the fabrications of ...oh my, I forget her name -- the blonde, Lily?? No... and of course also Derek The Possessed himself! LOL
Unbelievable.

Did you catch the episode where they investigated the house 200 yards from where Sharon Tate was murdered and supposedly got EVP's of Sharon and Abigail Folger? 3 or more doors down & the murder house destroyed?

Although the EVP's were interesting... but still, improbable, even moreso than 'normal'.

--and the owner, I swear, had dollar signs for pupils; well he had a script/screen treatment all ready to go and was just waiting to use TAPS as an advertising gimmick. Ugh.

Shades of 'Dead Famous', that atrocious show Derek, er I mean Chris, had on A&E (I think was the channel)... my god, they paparazzi'ed the dead! Didn't matter if some famous person's ghost had never appeared to anybody --for example there have be absolutely no reports of apparitions of John Lennon, and I was rather outraged they'd try to exploit him of all people! Heck, I was expecting them to dig up some 'famous graves' and attempt to train the cadavers or spirits or whatever with Chris's little K-II machine! :puke:
That 'skeptic' was no trained skeptic either, just a pretty bit of British fluff, very easy on the eyes but unfortunately on the frontal lobes too.
Speaking about that KII machine Fleming used -- you know, the one which 'answered' all but one question 'Yes'? ...the one where he could 'train' ghosts to do tricks (much like I train my dogs, but with no positive reinforcements); and he ordered them about in a way I wouldn't even order my dogs!
That thing was a cheap electromagnetic sensor that was calibrated to an all-or-nothing response. If the ambient electromagnetism hit, let's say 1.9 it wouldn't go off, if it hit 2.0 it would.
Big whoop. :D

TAPS members MySpace pages are the furthest thing from professional, full of bootlickers and I swear Jason has let things go to his head so much that he posts fan-pics about him in shining armor, he as a Super Hero, etc. etc. It's actually frightening. They even remove posts that bring up long-time watchers concerns about how associating with very possible/probable charlatans will be only to their detriment.
Can't have people disagreeing now, can you?

Hmmm... now who does that sound like?? :>

For that matter the TAPS website is even more unprofessional-- even the 'over 18' board, where you can supposedly get away from the teenage squeals of "oh! He's so CUTE! I just LUV him!!!" in sparkle-plenty (or whatever that MySpace glittery chit is : ) is just as bad; loaded with as many sycophants as Jason, Grant, et al's MySpace pages.


LOL Sorry about the rant -- I'm just so very disappointed --especially after being so very thirsty for so long for a decent, legitimate, professional and analytical program dealing with Fortean events-- they've apparently sold out.

Worse, they are destroying any semblance of scientific enquiry for fame, ratings, and cheap thrills!
--and for nifty fanart showing them as glittering ubermensch. :(

Hmmm... maybe like you-know-chimpy-who with his halos around his pointy little head and wingnut ears?
Gah! :puke:

LOL
Again, sorry for the rant! :D

[siouxsiecreamcheese]

27. I agree about ghoststudy

I hate it when orbs are considered evidence.. 99.9999% of the time it's just dust or light. the abovetopsecret website seems to be overrun with skeptics and won't even consider a different point of view... as for ghost hunters, I do enjoy the show, theres not much else on lol, and i do agree that some of it may have gone to thier heads a bit.. from what i understand a few people have left the group because they couldn't put up with the producers of the show anyway.. i think it was donna who left a really long rant on her myspace page about it.. i just like that the show doesn't automatically jump on the "oh its definetly haunted!" train like in shows like most haunted.. derek is a joke lol.. a candy bar could possess him...I wish there were more sites out there that offered some intelligent discussion about the subject of the paranormal without the negative skeptics or the religious nutbags or the fawning fangirls, but I still haven't found any.

[hedgehog]

4. Sometimes a shadow is just a shadow nt

[ashling]

5. Where are the kitty pics ???

This is a poor excuse for a kitty thread if you ask me. :eyes:

[Critters2]

11. LOL!!

Yeah! WE WANT KITTY PICS!!

[MsMagnificent]

18. Hey!

There IS a kitty pic in my Flickr account actually!

In poor french, I may add :)


I'd post one here, but as you see on my sig, DU doesn't allow pics from my home page to be displayed... just "Image"
...but then that's just a puppy pic, not near as cuddly as a kitty :D

[MsMagnificent]

16. Did you go to the link?

The pic of Kitty, and others relative to it (maybe) are there...

[Az]

6. Considering how wired our brain is to see faces

it would be amazing not to see occaisional faces in the shadows of picture. You don't really think there is a man in the moon just because your brain sees a face up there do you?

[MsMagnificent]

17. Yep, it reminded me of the 'Face on Mars'

but at least part of the resemblance to the killer was uncanny.

Now if it didn't look a thing like the killer, I would more have thought it was nothing, just our minds making order out of chaos.
If more convinced it was really a face, would have had a fleeting speculation that it was a long lost relative;

or even a Green Man! --They're statistically about as possible as a prescient or precognitive 'ghost photo', right? :)

[melody]

33. That's the data that is convincing ... the resemblance to the killer

The only option I'd see beyond it being a genuine anomaly (and who the heck
knows what that means) is fraud.

[melody]

32. There are many people who are visually resistant to patterns and don't see faces

And there is a pattern there that isn't likely to be simple matrixing. The only option beyond simple matrixing is fraud.

[Kajsa]

45. Ever seen the Human Face- Coffee Bean puzzle?

It's very interesting.

http://immenseknowledge.blogspot.com/2007/08/beans-illusion.html

I almost gave up, then I found the face.

:hi:

[TreasonousBastard]

7. Well, that did kind of look like a face, but...

it also looked a lot like a knothole when enlarged.

What it really looks like is deep background out of focus. The heavy black lines are the trim on the edge of a building, and what's to the right of it is someone else's back yard way out of focus.

At least that's what's on my Occam's Razor-- no more mysterious than that Virgin Mary on the grilled cheese sandwich.

[okasha]

8. I don't think it's background out of focus.

Everything else in the picture, including the area behind the trellises, is sharp. I don't know what kind of camera was used, but most snapshot cameras used, and still use, a small aperture for maximum depth of field. Light appears to be from directly overhead and perhaps very bright overcast given the softness of the shadows. (Note "appears." The print could have been exposed for low contrast.) My best guess is light filtering through the foliage and playing against the wall to Kitty's left.

[pitohui]

9. have you tried the fortean times?

in the tradition of charles fort, they tend toward some skepticism but they'll give the paranormal a hearing


and yeah, i saw the evil face, crap, it jumps right out at you -- doesn't mean there isn't a rational explanation tho but yeah it does look uncanny

http://www.forteantimes.com/

they might actually buy your photo with accompanying story for publication but i don't know the rates so you might want to remove the photos from the internet if you are looking to go that direction -- i don't think you can sell photos that have been online too long and copied all over the place

[MsMagnificent]

19. Yes, thank you

We are long-standing members of the Fortean Times :)

Been getting their mag for at least 20 years... the best darn analytical analyses of cryptids, spooks, psi, the paranormal, unusual deaths & other occurrences...

or, collectively, Fortean Events! :woohoo:

[skygazer]

10. So what's the theory?

That this is some sort of omen? That a shadowy, blurred object in the corner of a photo that doesn't really but could if you work hard at it look like a face somehow means that in the future this person will suffer a violent death?

Sorry but :eyes:

"there are indeed some things that happen that simply cannot be explained." Like what? Blurred photos? Of people who happen to be murdered later?

Jesus....

[MsMagnificent]

23. No idea.

It is what it is. :shrug:
Far be it from me to declare what it actually means in the grand scheme of things...
it's just interesting, is all. And I can only wonder and poorly suppose and never know for sure what the true meaning is...


And as for 'the things that cannot be explained'...
I have known things all my life, things I should have had no way of knowing. Knowing that somewhere, something was wrong -- and knowing exactly what was wrong and who about.
And it was.

Knowing the future. Even predicting to the day & hour when a couple (who NEVER visited) would come knocking over at my sister's house.
I also knew I'd be on the way, and would call when around the corner because I had no wish to see that couple.
Sis was 'Yeah, right.' But on that day... there they were.

But just a few more examples, and worse:

An ambulance passing and knowing my cousin was in there, dying. Turned around and followed it to the hospital and beat her husband there.
In the late 70's. Before there were cell phones. Had no way of knowing she had a heart attack.

Or, when driving my mother to the hospital, was going to just drop her off because I had to go to a meeting; but somehow at the last minute knowing my dad had died I told her I'd come in with her and be late for the meeting.
If I hadn't, she would have been all alone when told.

Were these things chance? Highly improbable. I've never followed an ambulance before or since.
And how did I knowthese things beforehand?


This stuff can never be called up at will. Either it happens or it doesn't. You can't ask for it to happen, you can't decide when; it's out of your control. But when it does happen, it's an absolute knowing and quite real.

I used to go to horse races, and usually was no better or no worse than the average.

But I'd have streaks -- yep, I know, *everyone* does. Some days I'd hit 3 or 4 trifectas or exactas. I actually got so good that's all I'd bet.
But ONE memorable race day I hit, out of 12 races, ELEVEN Exacta's and Trifecta's. I missed just the 6th race exacta, and for some reason I knew I'd miss that one too LOL
And I knew it'd be a mad winning day.

I even got a sheet for the next day & circled my choices.
Didn't have near so many wins as the previous day (still quite a few) but got the final trifecta at obscene odds that paid $2800+ on a $2 dollar box.
(That previous day I only played dollar boxes -- still came home with over $850; and the races didn't have near as good payouts as that last race.

Was nice!


Anyways -- Carl Jung wrote much on liminal philosophy and the collective unconscious. He created the theory of Synchronicity, writing much about inexplicable events and coincidences like these upon which many look at askance. Many other philosophers have pondered the paranormal too.

There are more things in this world than are dreamt in your --or anybodies-- philosophy.

Go blaspheme and roll eyes at them too. :shrug:
Any road, I'm sure they can give you better answers.

[skygazer]

36. The thing is, I don't need answers

Hell, I used to work at a racetrack, for close to ten years. Every day. So I'm well aware of things like odds and winning streaks.

Tell me, do you keep track of the times you feel like you WON'T have a good day at the track and that comes true? Or the days you feel like you will and you don't? Or that you won't and you do?

Like any other collection of predictions and "paranormal" events, your list is an incomplete account - only the times you were right. Just as the National Enquirer publishes endless prognostications for the future and only about 3 come to pass but everyone remembers those three because, "Oh, my god, they were RIGHT!"

"Or, when driving my mother to the hospital, was going to just drop her off because I had to go to a meeting; but somehow at the last minute knowing my dad had died I told her I'd come in with her and be late for the meeting.
If I hadn't, she would have been all alone when told."

I assume from this that your father was already in the hospital. Given that, it's not a long stretch for you to be concerned enough, even subconsciously, to decide to go along. But it's more fun to think you have some sort of paranormal talent.

As for the ambulance, I had something very similar happen to me. I had a feeling it was someone I knew and it was. But the ambulance was coming from the direction of their home and in fact several people I knew lived in that area. Doubtless, if it had turned out that the person was a stranger, I wouldn't even remember it but because it was a friend, I do.

And it's all harmless fun to think you can do it and knock yourself out. But don't expect me to look at a picture of nothing and believe its something.

[QMPMom]

12. If I look really hard, I can see a few facial features, but

they don't look at all like the black person in the row of pics you have posted.

What I think the blurry image looks like is a woman in a halter top that is slightly turned at the waist and wearing maybe a skirt in a matching color. You can't see the face, but the one area looks like cleavage.

[ghostsofgiants]

20. ZOMG IT'S TEH KILLARS GOHST FROM TEH FUTARRRRE!!!1231!!31onemg!1~

[supernova]

28. I don't think so, but it sure is disturbing

to see living pictures of a murder victim. I'm always a little unnerved by that as opposed to seeing pictures of someone who died naturally.

[melody]

31. There are some excellent sites

Unfortunately, most sites go one way or another -- debunker or true believer.
I like any boards frequented by people who actually do this stuff. I've taken enough photos with anomalies in them, I know they're real. Try doing a search for ghost investigators. Dale Kaczmarek is an expert in ghost photography. His site is ghostresearch.org, I believe.

The naysayers will say it's "matrixing". I'm fairly impressed with it personally.

[Rabrrrrrr]

40. I ceased to be amazed by the bullshit that assholes and the jackasses can come up with.

What fucking nonsense.

It's about as "OOH WOW!" as numerology or astrology or the collapse of the World Trade Center due to military lasers.

[jgraz]

43. it looks more like that grilled-cheese Jesus

Hey -- maybe HE killed her :scared:

[Fire Walk With Me]

48. "Paranormal anomaly" is an oxymoron.

It would translate to "nothing unusual happening".

[sam sarrha]

49. want to see something strange.?? find the classical photo or Reagan and put a mirror on each half..

so as to make a full photo of each half. very spooky..