*SPOILERS* So after reading 'The Deathly Hallows' I just have to say this...

[Danger Mouse]

I WAS RIGHT! SNAPE WAS A GOOD GUY ALL ALONG!
I knew it!
Ha!
:bounce: :toast: :woohoo:
Although the part with his memories of Lily and Dumbledore...and the scene at the end where Harry refers to Snape as probably the bravest man he ever knew...I totally :cry:
I had a feeling in the end, that Harry would understand Snape, if he didn't like him. I was wrong. Harry came to admire him.
I'm sure, on the other side, Severus and Lily will be friends again...

[Danger Mouse]

1. Anyone else have any reactions? I might want to head over to the lit forum...

but I want to hear from my fellow loungers! :hi:

[FloridaJudy]

2. Major spoiler warning!

I always suspected that Snape was in love with Lily. I also suspected - at the end of Half-Blood Prince - that Dumbledore knew he was dying, and had asked Snape to kill him painlessly when the time was right. What surprised me was that the mysterious patronus that helps Harry and Ron get the sword was actually Snape's, but given what happened to Tonk's patronus in the earlier book, it makes sense.

What I liked most about Deadly Hallows was the exploration of Dumbledore's character. He emerges as a complex and conflicted human being, rather than just the Wise Old Wizard of myth. Both Snape and Dumbledore strike me as real tragic heroes: basically decent human beings brought down by their own thoughtless actions.

The book is interesting because many of the characters demonstrate sides to their personalities that are surprising. With the exception of Voldemort, Umbridge and Bellatrix, no one is wholly evil. Even Kreacher has the ability to grow and change. The Malfoys may be despicable snobs, but at least they seem to to care deeply about each other's welfare, and Wormtail shows a remnant of decency at the end, even though it kills him.

Lots of food for thought there.

[Danger Mouse]

3. The one thing that didn't surprise me was the doe patronus being Snape...

when I read that, I had a funny thought...'gee, if it's true that Snape has always been in love with Lily, then it would make perfect sense for the Patronus to have been from snape.'
Harry himself grew and changed incredibly in the end of the last book. He spent all seven books hating snape, and most of book 7 with conflicting feelings about Dumbledore, but in the end, he came to understand the difficult decisions they had to make, and respected them perhaps more than anyone else. I think it was no coincidence that he named one child after Dumbledore and Snape, rather than naming one child Albus and another Severus.
Harry, Snape, and Dumbledore, were very much alike in a lot of ways.
And as I said before, the entire chapter of Snape's memories...one of the most moving chapters in the entire series, without a doubt.
I had said from the moment I put down book 6 that there was no way that Snape was evil. I was glad to be vindicated there.

[YellowRubberDuckie]

15. Well, it all came down to if we trusted Dumbledore...

And I did, but I didn't, if that makes sense...
But I was cheering when I found out that Snape wasn't evil.
Duckie

[Danger Mouse]

35. I never had any doubt.

Again, Snape's redemption was, without a doubt, the most emotional part of the book for me.
Snape was perhaps the bravest character in the entire series. He forced himself to kill the person who had put absolute faith in him, he dedicated his life to redeeming himself for having a hand in the death of the only person he ever loved, and his last act, even as he lay dying, was to help Harry finish Voldemort once and for all.

[Lisa]

69. I was impressed by how angry he was -- not because he'd been asked ...

... to protect Harry (the child of the woman he loved, which would have been a constant reminder of the happy life he'd missed out on) -- but because he felt that Harry was being groomed as a sacrifice.

And I'm glad that Harry showed the emotional maturity to understand not only how conflicted Snape had been, because of him -- but Dumbledore as well -- and forgive them both.

[Danger Mouse]

74. I think sharing Snape's memories...

was what finally did it for him.
He couldn't hate Snape after seeing that. Noone could.

[Lisa]

75. unless one were Tom Riddle, say ...

Being able to change even our most strongly-held views seems to be a recurring theme.

A couple of times, JKR mentioned that feeling remorse would be a way to escape even the mess of creating multiple Horcruxes. Perhaps it's significant that all the other major characters -- Dumbledore, Snape, Harry himself -- are genuinely sorry for things that they did, or omitted to do. But not Riddle.

[XemaSab]

224. I agree with the impressiveness of Snape's anger....

and frankly, if I was Harry, I would feel the same way.

Every kindness and lesson from Dumbledore throughout the series is with the full knowledge that Harry has to die in the end.

Dumbledore's kind of a shit.

[Danger Mouse]

226. Kind of. Snape was kind of a shit too, since he went along with it.

None of the characters are totally sacred, which is one of the awesome things about the series.

[XemaSab]

235. In the end Snape really only cared about ONE person.

Not Dumbledore, not Harry, not Voldemort, not himself...

The ONLY person he cared about was Lily. :(

[WolverineDG]

87. But until now

we never knew what form Snape's patronus was supposed to be, or that he could even produce one.

But I had a nagging suspicion that Snape was a good guy all along, having to play bad (although I'm sure he took some of his frustrations at James out on Harry at the same time).

dg

[jgraz]

78. I'm a huge HP fan, but I really hated this last book

Somebody please convince me that I just have poor taste or that I didn't understand how wonderful it really was. It sucks to be this disappointed after 10 years. :(

[Demeter]

82. You Are Not Alone

[jgraz]

83. yes, but you're not a huge HP fan

We ignorant low-brow types couldn't tell good writing if it bit us on the ass. Hell, I break into tears reading the instructions on my shampoo bottle (sniff, that "lather, rinse repeat" gets me every time). That's why I'm so shocked that I didn't like this one. Maybe it was all the big words...

[Demeter]

85. On the Contrary

I am a fanfiction author, under a pen name, and a devotee of the series. And the last book STILL stinks.

[jgraz]

86. Then why come on here and effectively call most of the people who loved it dumbasses?

Personally, I'm envious of them. I wish I could have enjoyed the book one tenth as much as others seemed to.

[Demeter]

93. You Called Them Dumb Asses, Not I

[jgraz]

97. You do realize we can all still see your other posts, don't you?

They're like, four inches down the screen.

[Demeter]

98. And In NONE of Them Are Any Comments Proclaiming Anyone

a dumbass. Although in your case, an exception could be made.

[jgraz]

100. Note use of the word "effectively"

Also note the lack of the word "literally".

For such a well-read person, you seem to have trouble with some fairly basic literary concepts.

[mondo joe]

101. Ah, a fanfiction "author".

That explains it.

[badgerpup]

102. On the topic of 'fanfic'...

Just finished reading a mighty endeavor...not going to post links or name names here, but damn! Good...no...GREAT job! :applause:

Yeah, it was different than JKR...for one thing, there was lots of slash and gratuitous boinking...but there was a plot, a story line, and characters were developed and believable; especially that of Ginny.
Was actually kind of disappointed that the 'real' Ginny wasn't allowed to manifest the fire, spine, and sheer cussedness of the fanfic one.

But I wasn't disappointed with Deathly Hallows. I look upon it as a BIG chunk of dark chocolate for the brain; intended solely for sheer enjoyment...and if it has anti-oxident properties, well then, so much the better!

[Withywindle]

132. Hey, I write it too!

And I really liked the book. Some things annoyed me, as with everything JKR does (hey, she writes it *her* way, not mine!) but overall I really enjoyed the book. And it leaves a TON of fic opportunities wide open. :thumbsup:

[LostinVA]

103. I LOVED it

[ChickMagic]

214. Off topic

But what a sweet birdie! :loveya:

[Debi]

4. I really though Neville would end up being the one who killed Voldemort

At least I was along the right thread :shrug:

I just wonder...who is the new Headmaster at Hogwarts?

[Liberal Veteran]

5. Most likely Minerva

Although I think it would have been cool if it had been Hermione.

[jgraz]

77. No way -- Hermione's gonna be Minister for Magic

I love the idea of Percy having to kowtow to her for the rest of his career.

[dropkickpa]

195. I think Percy got in on

Weasley's Wizard Wheezes, he did crack a joke!

[LostinVA]

105. That's what I think, too.

[jgraz]

116. How else could she free all the house elves?

Ministry Decree Number 1284: Mandatory clothes for all elves.

[Danger Mouse]

118. Another great moment: Kreacher leading the charge ot the house elves.

I wanted to yell 'Go, Kreacher, go!'
Talk about a complete turn around in a character!

[LostinVA]

121. I know! LOVED it!

I always hated how Sirius treated Kreacher. Sirius was a good guy but not always a nice guy -- like Snape.

[Danger Mouse]

123. Yeah. Part of Harry's maturing was his learning that...

Sirius wasn't always the best person and Snape was a lot better than he realized. Sirius was another character who made drastically poor choices...his mistreatment of Kreacher came to bite him in the behind at the end.
Harry, however, treated Kreacher kindly, and the results were dramatically different.

[LostinVA]

125. O loved how Kreacher became the perfect little "haus frau"

And, all because of kindness.

[Danger Mouse]

128. It makes sense...Sirius always treated him horribly, so he always acted vicious towards them...

[LostinVA]

129. You reap what you sow, karma, the witch's rede, etc.

[Lisa]

187. and Harry's dad, too ...

I liked how even Harry's mom disliked certain things about him. And Harry's growing realization about how his own father had been a bit of a bully (revealed gradually) was rather well done, I thought, because it forced him to question his own idealized image of what his family had been like.

[Ilsa]

199. And not just Sirius, but his own father in book 5. James was

arrogant like Severus said. And he had a mean streak that attracted Sirius as a friend. I wonder if any teasing or mistreatment of Wormtail led to his ultimate lack of loyalty to his friend James.

[Danger Mouse]

207. Wormtail was weak-willed...

but he remembered kindness and cruelty. Sirius' death was indirectly caused by his cruelty towards Kreacher. Maybe James, like Sirius, also paid the price for mistreating Wormy at some point.

[Ilsa]

212. I thought Wormtail exposed James to Voldemort. nt

[jobycom]

7. I thought he would get Bellatrix.

Brilliant, though, how that one ended! "NOT MY DAUGHTER, YOU BITCH!" :rofl: I think I even cheered aloud!

I'll bet Julie Walters can't wait to film that scene!

[Debi]

8. Nevelle/Bellatrix

I thought we'd see them use the C-curse back and forth on eachother and then Harry/Ron/Hermoine intervene and tell NL he was better than that or something of that nature. :shrug:

[fizzgig]

14. i had to reread that to make sure i got it right the first time

i laughed and gave molly a 'you go, girl' or some such remark :rofl:

[mondo joe]

27. All I could think of was Sigourney Weaver in Aliens.

I actually wish JKR had just passed on whatever she was thinking.

[WolverineDG]

88. That's what I thought too!

But, I loved Mrs. Weasley's curse & can't wait to see it on screen. :woohoo:

dg

[LostinVA]

107. I loved seeing Mrs . Weasley be a great warrior and spellcaster

She's always been shown as the concerned mom. Seeing her as a ferocious and skilled witch was great! Especially since she destroyed the crazed by very skilled Bellatrix.

Although, I still do wish Neville has killed her. Poetic justice.

[AwakeAtLast]

244. I thought the exact same thing!!!

:rofl:

[liberalpragmatist]

13. I thought so too

Especially at the end of Chapter 33, when it looked like Harry was going to die. A lightbulb went off in my head and I thought - "Oh! Harry sacrifices himself so that Voldemort can be killed! And then the prophecy is fulfilled by Neville, who kills Voldemort!"

I was actually at first mildly disappointed that Harry survived for that reason, as the above events would have been a twisted but elegant ending.

But after reading it I was more than happy that Harry survived, even if I'm still not totally sure why he did. (Yes, the book gave an explanation, but it still doesn't make complete sense to me - it really looked like Dumbledore thought Harry would die; and if it was Lily's protection that saved him again, then why did that depend on Harry's blood running through Voldemort?)

[Debi]

89. and if Harry's love/death saved all the others why did Lupin/Tonks

Fred, etc. die? (or is it that they died before Harry sacrificed himself?) :shrug:

[liberalpragmatist]

95. I think they died before Harry's sacrifice - nt

[LostinVA]

108. They died before

[cemaphonic]

209. Harry's sacrifice protected people from Voldemort's spells

The other assorted baddies were unimpeded.

[LostinVA]

104. I thought Neville would kill Bellatrix

However: he certainly did help kill Voldemort, but slaying the snake. He was the FIRST one who went forward and confronted V, even thinking Harry was dead and all was lost.

[Debi]

140. Neville is a stud! n/t

[JoDog]

175. Neville!

He's always been one of my favorite secondary characters--in a lot of ways representing the opposite of Harry. Harry was the boy everything was expected of, while Neville was the boy no one expected anything of. And it turns out it was just a quirk of fate that separated them. I was hoping that Rowling would do something with his character in the finale, and I was not disappointed on that score. It seemed fitting that the boy whom no one thought was brave enough to be a Griffyndor was the leader of the Hogwarts resistance, and wielded Godric's sword against Nagini. Bravo!

[WolverineDG]

176. Everyone interpreted the prophecy wrong

they thought it referred to only ONE boy. It referred to two: Harry & Neville. Tricky art, that Divination.

dg

[Danger Mouse]

183. True dat. Neville stood up to Voldemort in therr darkest hour...

When all other hope was lost. Neville and Harry together were Voldemort's downfall.

[Ilsa]

200. I felt so good when I read of Neville's bravery. I had to believe that

he would particpate significantly in destruction of horcruxes.

[XemaSab]

227. I really liked how Harry let Neville in on their circle

at the end.

Even though he didn't tell Neville that Nagini was a horcrux, it was a minor rebellion against Dumbledore, methought.

[jobycom]

6. Yes, you and almost every other fan saw that one coming. *SPOILER*

:rofl: It was the most discussed prediction in the series, second maybe to whether Dumbledore was still alive.

Harry's comment about Snape at the end slew me, too.

What amazes me about Rowling, though, was how she teased the fans between books, and then worked that teasing into the story. Remember before "The Order of the Phoenix" when she announced, reluctantly and sadly, that one of the characters would die? Everyone talked about that until the book was released, debating who it would be. Then, all during the book, she planted fake deaths: Ron's Bogart, Mr. Weasley's almost-murder, etc. Readers were terrified every time a character was endangered... "Oh no, NOT HIM!"

She did that this time, too, with all the talk about killing Harry. "I don't know, maybe I'll kill him, that's a really seductive idea!" She even had Stephen King begging her not to. Then, in the book, she drops hint after hint that he has to die, culminating with Dumbledore admitting it outright. Then, Potter dies. I'm sure I wasn't the only one measuring how many pages were left, and whether that would be enough to bring him back and kill Volde... sorry, He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named!


:toast: to Rowling. Who would have thought ten years ago that a book would ever again be the most anticipated and talked about event in the world?

[Scooter24]

12. Haha. When Potter died I too took a quick glance at the final pages.

I sort of knew that there was a twist here somewhere though by the dignity in which he "died." The final duel between the Harry and Voldermort really was as impressive as I hoped it would be.

[jobycom]

20. Oh, I didn't try to read them, quite the opposite.

I just measured how many pages were left, to guess whether Harry was really dead. I suspected not, but I still wasn't sure. Once she killed Dobby, all bets were off, I thought.

But I was trying so hard not to read ahead that at times I even put my hand just below the line I was reading, so I couldn't skim ahead by accident. Especially when I noticed all-cap comments below, since those tend to draw my eye. I wanted to read each word as it came!

Wow, what a read, too. It had some flaws here and there, but I could not put it down! I found myself once standing in my kitchen, refrigerator door open, still reading the book instead of looking for the snack I had gotten up to get. I finally forced myself to put the book down and get some food. Even then, I picked it up again as soon as I started eating. No idea what I actually ate.

[mondo joe]

9. Things did not go quite as I thought they would.

I knew Snape was brave and good. (Not nice, but good.

I expected the last book to be more of a face off between the bad guys and a more assorted cast of the good. The thing that Harry did, in almost every instance, was to build bridges with others, and I expected to see that all come back around in the end.

I also expected Harry to ride Norbert or Buckbeak into victory.

[YellowRubberDuckie]

16. Joe, remember? Norberta!

:evilgrin:

[mondo joe]

23. Yes! But I was referencing what I USED to think.

:-)

[Elidor]

10. Was Snape just pretending to be a Death Eater all those years?

He overheard part of the first prophecy and rushed off to tell Voldemort, leading Voldie to kill Harry's parents. Was he a genuine follower of Voldie up to that point, and then perhaps is overcome by guilt and grief? Or was he a plant all along? If so, it would seem pretty strange for him to actively assist the big V that way.

/haven't read the books.

[YellowRubberDuckie]

17. Once he realized that it was Lily Evans's son that he realized Voldemort was going after...

...he was truly pained to realize that he was the cause of that. Snape did what he did in the end because of his love for Lily Evans.
READ THE BOOKS!!! You won't be sorry.
Duckie

[Scooter24]

11. I always thought Snape was good

but couldn't quite figure out how.

I thought the first half of the book dragged on a bit. They kept disaparating here and there, only to end up most empty handed, but the last 5-6 chapters really tied everything together and were very intense.

The book had me hooked by the end of the chapter 8 when Kingsley's patronus showed up and said "The Ministry has fallen. Scrimgeour is dead. They are coming."

[YellowRubberDuckie]

19. Kingsley proved to be cool as HELL!

And was made temporary Minister of Magic in the end. If anyone could clean up THAT mess, it was Kingsley.
Duckie

[Danger Mouse]

34. I loved Kingsley. I bet his first act as Minister...

was to fire that worthless toad Dolores Umbridge

[fizzgig]

64. you know it

:D

[Donnachaidh]

79. nah -- she should be sent to Azkaban

All the torturing she was doing in the Ministry should give her a cell for life.

[Danger Mouse]

112. Come to think of it...she almost certainly did end up in Azkaban...

unlike the Malfoys, who were too caught up in it to back down at the end, she participated with gleeful enthusiasm.

[LostinVA]

122. And, it was apparent to Harry that Draco was a very reluctant participant

And, "Cissy" helped save him at the end -- and helped him kill V -- even if her reasons were selfish. Someone truly evil would have sacrificed their son for the Dark Lord -- Bellatrix certainly would have.

[Danger Mouse]

127. Bellatrix wanted to jump Voldemort's bones...

which is just plain wrong.
Ugh.

[LostinVA]

130. Ick -- I KNOW!!!

[Danger Mouse]

134. Hell, at one point JKR refers to Bellatrix acting 'like a lover'...

I wonder if the Dark Lord would've been capable of boinking? When he talks dirty, does he do it in parsseltongue?

[LostinVA]

135. Icky icky ick

[WolverineDG]

90. But not until after he made her write lines

with that quill of hers!

:evilgrin:

dg

[Demeter]

18. Many Critics Have Said JKR Was a Poor Writer

Book 7 proved it. It was the most dull, disorganized, badly in need of an editor, waste of trees I ever read.

In all that dross, there is the bare bones of a good story, overlaid with so much crap that any director crazy enough to try to film it will almost certainly call for a major rewrite, and odds are the movie would be better than the book, unlike the previous films.

And JKR was frantically hacking away at it, trying to get her characters, which have grown beyond her basic plot, crammed back into the can. It was a slaughterfest, which may succeed in killing the whole franchise, not just for readers and fanfic writers, but for further films and spinoffs. I would not be the least surprised if Rowling doesn't announce that some dreadful sabotage has occurred, and the "real" finale comes out later. Or that the book is recalled. It's that bad.

[YellowRubberDuckie]

22. I've been all over the internet since I finished the book yesterday evening...

...and your review is the most critical and negative. Everyone I've talked to and read about LOVED the book. It was a little slow in spots, but it was no where near as terrible as you're making it out to be.
Duckie

[Demeter]

28. Maybe It's Because I've Read More Than One Author

and more than one genre. Or maybe it's just inherent good taste.

[Lars39]

29. If you had good taste you wouldn't come in a thread to insult others.

[YellowRubberDuckie]

30. Yeah, and you know that my reading is so limited...

:eyes: Way to be snotty and self important.
Duckie

[LibraLiz1973]

50. That snotty self important reply tells us all we need to know!

Idiot alert!!

:rofl:

[Danger Mouse]

32. I've read plenty. Plenty of classics. I've read just about a little bit of everything.

Thank you for insulting my taste and intelligence, though.

[fizzgig]

40. who pissed in your wheaties?

seriously, way to broad-brush us all as simpletons :eyes:

[Danger Mouse]

42. quiet, you witless clod, you read harry potter so obviously you only have...

two brain cells to rub together and light a fire.
:rofl:

[fizzgig]

43. maybe between the two of us

we can discover the wheel

:rofl:

[Danger Mouse]

44. i've increased our weapons effectiveness by 300%

look. it's a rock. tied to a stick. i call it a strock.

[fizzgig]

45. ...

:rofl:

all i could come up with was a pointy stick :(

[Danger Mouse]

48. Ah, but look at this. If we take your pointy stick...

and tie a sharp rock to it, like so:

i call it a prick.
we are making technological advancements left and right!

[fizzgig]

54. i just choked on my bagel

:rofl:

[jobycom]

65. LOL! I needed those posts

:rofl:

[Danger Mouse]

72. glad it helped.

:hi:
:D

[Book Lover]

246. Holy cats, this is the funniest thing ever!

Oh my lack of god, I am crying with laughter here. I know this was days ago, but I had to reply, this just really struck me as hysterical...

[FloridaJudy]

157. A pointed stick? A POINTED STICK?

When some homicidal maniac comes after you with a bunch of loganberries, don't come crying to me!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=piWCBOsJr-

[Patsy Stone]

158. Have we done raspberries?

Red AND black?

:rofl:

[LibraLiz1973]

49. Oh, look! An asshole

I'll assume the other books you read were by Ann Coulter- because you sure are obnoxious.

[WolverineDG]

92. I minored in English, so

I think I can safely say I've read more than 1 author & more than 1 genre. Tale of Two Cities? Good enough, but a smidge melodramatic at the end. Catcher in the Rye? Blows chunks. The Bell Jar? Find me the grave of Sylvia Plath so I can dig her up & smack her with a shovel. HP Book 7? ROCKS!


dg

[LostinVA]

110. Whatever

I've read more than one author and more than one genre, and have excellent taste in books. I have a background and education in literature, and a career that's in books. I loved the final Harry Potter book.

Your post is over the line. I'm surprised it's still standing.

[mondo joe]

138. A writer of any talent could criticize a book without criticizing those who disagree.

:-)

[Donnachaidh]

139. Amazing that you should automatically assume HP readers to not have read

anything else. How "do" you manage to get your ego through doorways?

[GumboYaYa]

213. You mean there are writers other than J.K. Rowling?

Well roll me in flour and call me pie crust....I woulda never known. Fortunately we gots smart folks on DU to tell us that stuff, cause obviously most of us ain't read so much.

[grace0418]

240. Oh geez. Get over yourself, Demeter. What an incredibly arrogant assumption.

Just because someone likes a book you didn't like, that automatically means they only read one author and one genre? And that they must have bad taste? Are you kidding me with this?

I'm not here saying it was a great work of literature, but it was a damn fun read. Especially for a CHILDREN'S book. I enjoyed it immensely, couldn't put it down, in fact. And yet, GASP, I also read other authors and other genres. I had read hundreds, perhaps thousands, of books before the very first Harry Potter book was ever written, believe it or not.

And you know what else? Even though I'm generally considered a foodie, sometimes a perfectly made grilled-cheese sandwich is wonderfully satisfying. And even though I got an "A" in film class and see all manner of indie art films, I still laughed my ass off at "Napoleon Dynamite." I'm not afraid to like what I like, regardless of whether some snob deems it worthy of liking.

You're absolutely free to say you hated the book. But please leave your idiotic assumptions about everyone else out of your posts. For someone who's supposedly so well-read, you have a lot to learn about the power of the written word.

[yellowdogintexas]

241. well put! nt

[grace0418]

243. Thank you. Although it appears Demeter just came here to

shit on everyone's fun then leave. Somebody open a window.

[XemaSab]

59. WTF?

Why have you bothered reading this far if you hate her writing style?

I've read many authors in many genres, and while I will freely admit that Rowling's prose is very... Hemingwayesque... I think she's got an incredible gift for storytelling and creating AMAZING characters.

Why you gotta hate?

[jobycom]

62. Proves that a lot of critics should be flipping burgers and upselling fries.

Make themselves useful to the world, because they aren't worth shit as judges of writing.

[Donnachaidh]

80. and exactly what have YOU published lately?

Talk about sour grapes. Please do tell us what you've published lately?

[philosophie_en_rose]

91. Right. How dare anyone criticize a book they've read.

All published books are shiny gems brought to earth by fairy princesses. How dare anyone think critically about a book! :rofl:


I liked the last book, but found that the ending was forced. However, I'm not aware of the change in the law that requires everyone to like Harry Potter or to blindly bleat approval for every published book.

[LostinVA]

111. They are not criticizing the book, but those of us who liked and enjoyed it

THAT'S the problem.

[Rabrrrrrr]

191. If being published is the entry into being allowed to criticize, we're all screwed

I've never been president of the US, so I guess I should shut up about Shrub.

I've never been an attorney, so I guess I should shut up about Gonzalez, and so forth.

[LostinVA]

109. Oh gawd

[hyphenate]

146. Regardless of how Jo Rowling's writing is criticized

it appears to me that anyone--ANYONE--who can get millions of kids worldwide reading instead of playing video-games or other schlock all day and all night deserves not only a medal, but a thank you from every single parent and teacher who deals with children.

Even masters such as C.S. Lewis and J.R.R. Tolkien would be hard-pressed to be able to say the same thing about their own mastery of fantasy, as most people over a certain age would not look to C.S. Lewis's heptalogy without over-analyzing it to death, and the Rings trilogy would go whizzing over the heads of anyone under the age of 15, at the very least.

I believe you are underestimating the intelligence of many DUers who are among the most knowledgeable, dedicated and wise people in the country, and who enjoy fantasy as much as they enjoy any creative endeavor of note. For those of us who hold our major in English, the Harry Potter series is more than just one we are glad to see children reading, but one which we have also enjoyed ourselves.

As with everything else, however, you definitely have a right to your opinion, as do we. However most of us don't go into threads and insert negativity into the discussion without remembering that it is those who come to a thread to read the comments by like-minded individuals that started the thread in the first place.

On the other hand, on a personal note, I often find those who believe that they are better writers than those who have been published have way too much faith in their own writing to be in any way objective. Once upon a time, I too used to be a fanzine writer and editor, back in the days when fan writers were a lot more creative and original than they are nowadays. It's been my experience that those who swear by their own writing instead of the writing of professionals are the ones most in need of writing lessons and workshops--whether it's because they have been given a free pass way too often for their work from people who should know better, or because they have not attempted to take negative criticism to heart. It's also a reason why very few fanfic writers ever become professionals--the thought of competing in real life with other writers scares the shit out of them. If I were an editor of a zine now, I probably wouldn't have a lot of contributions for a zine, because frankly, I would be rejecting 80-90% of the submissions I received.

I did go on to professional work as both a journalist and an editor, though I haven't done as much in the past twenty years as I would have liked. Sometimes you just need to pay the rent, and even professional writers don't always make enough money to do that.

You will also find that those at DU usually have a better sense than most people of what writing works and what doesn't. And again, I stress that for an author who can engage the minds of so many people--even if her style and technique aren't perfect--Jo Rowling has obviously done something right.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

186. If you really believe that...

why did you read seven of her books, with the most recent one being a hardcover that you finished in a couple of days since it came out?

[NashVegas]

193. Many Critics Suffer Professional Jealousy and/or Loathe the "Classic" Literary Style

And that's their problem, not JK Rowling's, not mine.

[Chovexani]

223. I don't how anyone could come away thinking fanfic writers are crying over it

Particularly given the epilogue. We don't know what any of the kids does for a living aside from Neville. We don't even know Draco's wife's name. We know nothing about the immediate aftermath of the war. Jesus, even the slashers had stuff handed to us on a silver platter (young!Dumbledore/Grindelwald, anyone?). The epilogue, IMO, was a giant gift to fanficers, probably the biggest one we've gotten in the entire series.

Are you a Harmonian or something? 'Cause, seriously, the only people I've seen in fandom who hated the book are Harmonians who got mad their ship was finally sunk in a way even their feeble reading comprehension skills could handle.

[Danger Mouse]

225. Harmonian?

Hermione/Harry shippers? I know a lot of people hated Ginny :P

[Book Lover]

237. Excuse me, but as a professional editor, I say Book 7 was pretty well edited

I had some problems with the pacing, but to say this was the superlatively worst book ever is just incorrect. Geez, look at ...the Philosopher's Stone - *that* needed some serious editing...

[Danger Mouse]

238. Said by a bitter writer of fanfic's...

so lord only knows what they wanted to happen that didn't...

[Lars39]

21. Slightly off-topic,

but was the "flayed child" making the noise under the chair Voldemort? Cause Harry tells V he knows what he'll become if he doesn't show remorse.
And if that was Voldemort under the chair, doesn't that mean that Voldemort died when Harry "died"?

[YellowRubberDuckie]

24. Voldemort killed the horcrux in Harry when he Avada Kedavra'ed him.

Harry woke up, and was able to kill Voldemort because of it. Once Neville chopped off the snake's head, Harry could kill him without him ever being able to come back. He was really dead. FINALLY.
Duckie

[Lars39]

26. So the thing under the chair might have been the accumulation

of V's 6 dead horocrux.

[YellowRubberDuckie]

31. It was the dying horcrux that was inside Harry.

At least, probably.

[Lars39]

56. That makes sense.

:)

[fizzgig]

25. well bully for you and your theory

:P

snape's redemption to harry was, perhaps, the most emotional part of the book for me

[Danger Mouse]

33. i just realized something, love...

when snape said to harry 'look at me'...i think i know why. harry had lily's eyes.
he wanted to see them as he died.
:cry:

[fizzgig]

37. could be

that's a tad creepy, tho

[Danger Mouse]

38. well snape was a tad creepy.

:rofl:

[XemaSab]

60. SNAP

e :D

[LibraLiz1973]

52. Ohhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!

That is so sad!!

[jobycom]

68. Yes, that's what I got, too. nt

[Danger Mouse]

73. i'd like to think that somewhere...

in the beyond...Lily and Severus are friends again.

[jobycom]

76. Maybe, but he was still a creepy jerk!

Brave as Hell, but not very nice to people, not very admirable in most other ways.

One of the things that impressed me throughout the series with Rowling is that her characters were never flawless. They got things wrong, responded selfishly, made a mess of things. She saw virtue in most everyone, without seeing perfection in anyone. Except maybe Hermione, whom she has admitted was the closest character to herself. I wondered at points if she was giving Dumbledore so many flaws in this book just because he had not had any grave ones in the rest of the series.

Even Voldemort, while not having any virtues, she at least gave a sympathetic past.

[Lisa]

188. the author of the Minnipins series was criticized for "annoying" characters ...

Carol Kendall ("The Gammage Cup", "The Whisper of Glocken", and "The Firelings") -- her work predates JKR's by several decades, though oddly enough she used the word "Muggles" too (as specific a character name, though). One critic slammed Kendall because her characters were "incompetent" and had all kinds of irritating quirks -- rather missing the point, because the stories were about how diverse, flawed people can in fact work together to accomplish great feats. People who complain about that kind of thing ought to be reading Eddison or earlier heroic fantasy, where characters are perfect or at least much larger than life.

[XemaSab]

229. The only "perfect" character was Lily

Every other character had pretty deep, serious personal flaws. Can't think of any other examples. :shrug:

[Danger Mouse]

232. Examples of 'perfect' characters? Well, Lily had the same flaw as James...

she trusted Peter Pettigrew :P

[XemaSab]

234. True dat.

But Peter wasn't HER friend.

Man, there is WAY too much room for fanfic between "Snape's Worst Memory" and the death of Lily and James.

Good times.

[LostinVA]

113. That's what I thought, too

He wanted Lily's eyes to be the last thing he say as he died.

:cry:

[Danger Mouse]

115. I'm saying it for the millionth time, but...

doesn't the part where Harry says to Albus Severus that Snape was 'the bravest man I ever knew' just choke you up? :cry:

[LostinVA]

119. Yes!

There were lots of parts that made me cry. His faithful friend Hedwig being murdered. Walking to his death willingly, escorted by those who loved him. Dooby's extreme bravery and subsequent death. Professor McG's keening. Mrs. Weasley throwing off her familiar role of mother and showing what a great witch she is. Seeing his parents' death through V's eyes. Finding out why Snapes's patronus was a doe. So many things -- a great ending to the series.

[Danger Mouse]

120. I got misty eyed when Percy came to fight with them, too.

And then he turned the minister of magic into a puffer fish.
But then fred... :cry:

[LostinVA]

124. I know... and Tonks and Lupin

I loved Tonks and Lupin.

[Danger Mouse]

126. Me too...

my three favorite characters were Snape, Lupin, and Luna!
At least one of them survived :cry:

[LostinVA]

131. I was worried about Luna and Mrs/ Weasley

I wonder what happened to Luna in the future? Editor of the Quibbler?

She was a loyal friend and a brave fighter. Great character.

[Danger Mouse]

133. Editor of the Quibbler...hmm...nah, I think she would've done something much crazier...

and I'm sure Harry's kids would refer to her as 'Crazy Auntie Luna'...

[WolverineDG]

145. I think she married Neville

What I want to know is, who did Draco marry? I doubt it was Pansy. :o

dg

[Danger Mouse]

147. Nah, it had to have been Pansy.

You think Luna married Neville? She seemed to be getting pretty close to Dean Thomas at the end too.

[WolverineDG]

177. If she wasn't going to marry Harry

I wanted her to marry Neville. :) I think they'd work well off each other. And as for Pansy, isn't it interesting that she is named after a flower, just like Harry's mother & aunt? Perhaps the Parkinsons are related to the Potters? We never did find out what happened to James' family & he was never referred to as a orphan. :o

dg

[LostinVA]

174. I was thinking that, too

They're both brave, loyal, unique.

I would love to know what happened to Draco, too!

[Danger Mouse]

184. Neville and Luna...

I guess I could see that :P

[Hekate]

203. Luna might make a good Professor of Divination...

[Danger Mouse]

208. I was thinking that, too.

That'd be interesting.

[Ilsa]

201. Yeah, and Mrs. Weasley turned out to be a fighting fiend.

She didn't knit anyone into a corner. I bet she may have done some real bitch-slappin' wand-work when she was younger. Of course, one of her kids had just been killed.

[Hekate]

204. Seeing two of her kids maimed and one killed could do that to a woman! nt

[Rabrrrrrr]

205. GET AWAY FROM MY DAUGHTER YOU BITCH!!!

That was awesome!

And McGonnagal getting irate, too - bloody wonderful!

[AnnieBW]

216. Definite Ripley moment, there!

I was ROFLing, even though I was pissed because I wanted Neville to finish off Trixie.

[XemaSab]

230. I liked Snape, Lupin, and Hermione...

And yeah, at least one survived. :(

[Danger Mouse]

233. Hey, we're pretty close on that.

We both had two of the same favorite characters die. :P

[Patsy Stone]

137. I got misty eyed when the former Headmasters gave him a standing O

and when he told his son about Snape. :cry:

[Danger Mouse]

141. That scene definitely got to me.

'The bravest man he ever knew'... :cry:

[regnaD kciN]

210. Speaking of which...

...as I pointed out in another thread, why wasn't there a new portrait of Snape hanging in the office? He had been Headmaster, too...

[XemaSab]

231. He and Phinias Nigellus can tag team with the snarks...

:rofl:

[YellowRubberDuckie]

36. No one has said anything about it...

What did you guys think of Dudley and the Dursleys? I was a little moved by the whole thing and realized that Petunia was Jealous of her sister and did not hate Harry as much as she thought she did. Especially after the nice things that Dudley said about him. He was really sad that he was possibly never going to see them again.
Duckie

[Danger Mouse]

39. Yeah, I definitely thought it was sweet when Dudley stayed behind.

But ONE thing that brought tears to my eyes was when Percy showed up near the end to fight alongside the others.

[fizzgig]

41. dudley, yes

it was easy to lose him in everything that came after

[TZ]

46. I'll give you credit

not long after I finished I remembered your theory about Snape. You were right on the button.
And it does really explain why he got so upset when people called him a coward......I really wondered about that.
I had a feeling that Dumbledore knew he was dying and let Snape kill him..but I really thought that Snape was a bad guy...I was wrong there...

[Danger Mouse]

47. Yeah. He got so upset because his act was anything but cowardly.

Didn't it just kill you when at the end Harry referred to Snape as the bravest man he ever knew?

[TZ]

51. Yes

and as someone mentioned the whole thing with him wanting to look at Harry's face (to see Lily's eyes) one last time.after reading the chapter on Snape's memories it really hit me.....

[LibraLiz1973]

53. yep- that choked me up

[Danger Mouse]

55. it shocked me...i think more than anything else.

as much as i was convinced that Snape was a good guy, i never expected Harry to actually come to admire him for what he was. and since it was such a huge, pleasant surprise, it got to me.

[LostinVA]

114. I never thought Snape murdered Dumbledore

I thought he killed him -- on D's orders.

[LibraLiz1973]

57. SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS- What upset me

Aside from the fact that Harry named his son Albus Severus <cue the waterworks>:cry::cry::cry::cry::cry:
I was most upset by the losses of Dobby :cry: Tonks :cry: Lupin :cry: and Fred :cry:

I really liked the chapter where Harry saw Dumbledore again- very enlightening. Dumbledore basically saying that too much power would have corrupted him reminded me of Gandolfs refusal to touch the ring in LOTR. Very illuminating to find out why Dumbledore had never become M.O.M. I'd always assumed it was his love of Hogwarts.

[bigwillq]

66. So....

Harry did have a baby? I knew it! I told my sister he was going to have a baby and she said "No, way, he's only 17!"

[Scooter24]

96. He actually has 3 children...

two sons, James and Albus, and a daughter, Lily.

[bigwillq]

99. Wow.

He was busy! :evilgrin:

[TZ]

117. yeah but it was 19 years

after the end of Voldemort..:)

[Lisa]

71. some very interesting thoughts on corruption by power ...

Not just in this book, but the whole series. Both timely, and timeless. I especially liked the observation about the people who might be the most selfless and competent leaders, being the ones who would not be chosen in a popularity contest (or any of the other methods we use these days).

As you point out, a clear parallel with the situation in LOTR -- where not just Gandalf, but Aragorn, Galadriel, and Samwise, consciously reject the temptations of the ring.

Funny thing -- I have been reading Kristin Gore's new novel ("Sammy's House") this past week as well, and the fictional character of President Wye falls into the trap that JKR points out ... he isn't a bad man but a weak one with good intentions, and he so desperately wants to make the right decisions (and from that, to be liked and admired) that he chooses to take an experimental medication that may ultimately kill him in the end.

[WolverineDG]

94. Did she have to kill

Hedwig? :cry: :cry: :cry:

dg

[LostinVA]

142. Oh God, I know

[TechBear_Seattle]

136. But not the first character to be killed?

I've been looking at rumor sites for months (and even got a book of rumors for my birthday) but nowhere did anyone predict the death of Hedwig. All the other deaths were tragic, but expected: there are risks inherent in challenging the most evil of wizards. But Hedwig? Harry's constant friend, animal pal and familiar?

It was necessary for the plot, course; Harry's isolation from the Wizarding world and the lack of news was an essential part of the story and Hedwig's presence would have made that isolation much more difficult. Doesn't mean I wasn't shocked and saddened when she became the first casualty in the book.

[liberalpragmatist]

58. So why, exactly didn't Harry die?

I'm still not completely sure about why.

I know the book gave an explanation - Harry's blood with Lily's protection ran through Voldemort's veins. It protected Voldemort and so kept Harry alive. But would Harry have remained alive had Voldemort used someone else's blood to reconstruct himself? So explain to me again what happened that enabled Harry to stay alive (with only the part of him that was Voldemort getting killed)?

And *did* Dumbledore really believe Harry would die? He said he thought he'd survive in Chapter 35, but in Chapter 33, in Snape's recollections, Dumbledore outright said Harry would die.

Also, another question - how did the sword of Gryffindor get from the possession of the goblin to Neville's when he pulled it out of the sorting hat?

[Danger Mouse]

61. As far as the sword is concerned...

Voldemort killed a whole bunch of people when he found out what had happened to the cup. Griphook might've been one of them. In Voldie's panic to make sure the other horcruxes were safe, he might've overlooked the sword.
Even IF Griphook had survived, the sword appears to any true Gryffindor in time of need...doesn't matter who had it before...when Neville needed it most, it was there for him.
I'm not sure of the particulars of the link between Voldemort and Harry that allowed Harry to survive...however, it seems pretty clear that if Voldie hadn't used Harry's blood, Harry and Voldemort would've both died immediately, and Nagini would've been left as the final Horcrux. Harry could've stayed dead, but then that would've risked Nagini being used to revive Voldemort.
He decided to return, and waiting for the opportune moment to strike...the moment when Voldemort was least on his guard and Nagini was vulnerable.
For some reason, the Killing Curse voldemort used on Harry killed only the Horcrux. Not sure how that worked.
It was a bit confusing.

[XemaSab]

63. Same way it came out of the sorting hat in Chamber of Secrets

The hat will bring the sword to a true Gryffindor.

[jobycom]

70. Well, he did die, but only momentarily.

Lily's magic protected Harry from being killed in the original attack, so that the magic was in his blood, so when V used Harry's blood, he preserved part of Harry's physical presence, I think. Remember the earlier discussion with Hermione about the destroying the Horcrux? She said that in a normal person, the soul was not damaged when the body was killed, but in a Horcrux, the soul was destroyed with its container. Harry was part Horcrux, part normal, so when his body was killed, his soul lived, but Voldemort's piece of soul died. Since part of Harry's body was still alive, in Voldemort's blood, Harry's soul still had a physical connection to the world, so he could choose whether to go to his body or to go with Dumbledore.

That's how I read it, but there's another possibility, I think. Voldemort's wand had chosen Harry, and, being the baddest assiest wand in the universe, it made its own decisions about magic. For instance, when V crucioed Harry, he made his body fly around, but Harry didn't feel any pain, as though the magic wasn't effective against Harry. So maybe the AV curse wasn't fatal because of the wand. I think Rowling meant it to be the first explanation, but maybe she meant the second, or maybe they are connected in some way I haven't seen.

Kind of like "Lord of the Rings." How the Hell did that ring rule them all, anyway?

[driver8]

150. "being the baddest assiest wand in the universe..."!!!!

Ha Ha -- classic quote if there ever was one!!

[bridgit]

67. i never saw Snape as a bad guy; harsh, prickly & over-bearing yes, but not bad...

:thumbsup:

[MissHoneychurch]

81. Just finished reading it

read all day. Boy did it suck me in!!! It started slowly but sure got fast soon.

I liked the way Rowling decribed how Harry was torn in believing what he heard about Dumbledore or trusting his own instincts.

What I didn't like was that most of the important figures only appeared at the end. Neville, Snape etc. They would have deserved more.

[Ava]

84. it was a good ending

and i was so right about neville becoming the professor! :P ;)

so in the end harry both did die and he didn't

[DS1]

106. I knew that, and only watched the first movie

hated it, even

:toast:

[RevolutionaryActs]

143. I'm just so damn happy Ron and Hermione FINALLY got together

Sweet jeebus, I was waiting, and waiting, AND WAITING!


It was by far the best book in the series. I loved it so much. Although I was crying when Harry saw Fred, Lupin and Tonks' bodies. :cry: And when Harry used the stone and his parents, Black, and Lupin's spirits showed up. :cry:

[Danger Mouse]

148. Yeah, definitely my favorite, HBP being a very close second.

But what did you think about SNAPE?

[RevolutionaryActs]

151. I think I agree with Harry

He turned out be a fantastic character, didn't he? One of the more complex and great characters. And his death.. oh lord. :cry: "Look... at... me." He wanted to see Lily's eyes before he died. :cry:

[Danger Mouse]

152. I agree about the Lily part...

Did you cry too when Harry said Snape was the bravest man he ever knew? Were you tempted to cry during the entire 'Prince's Tale' chapter? I certainly was!
Wherever he is, he and Lily are friends again, I'm sure. Maybe even he and Sirius will grudgingly accept one another :P

[RevolutionaryActs]

154. Dude, I was crying the entire epilogue!

Sheesh. For all sorts of reasons. I bet they're friends again too. They all grew, and I bet came to a better understanding of one another.

'Kay, I'm going to get another tissue now! I can't believe it's all over! :cry::cry::cry::cry::cry:

[Danger Mouse]

155. Everytime I think of the epilogue I get choked up.

Let's hug each other and weep. :hug: :hug: :hug: :cry: :cry: :cry:

[RevolutionaryActs]

156. *sniffle*

:cry::hug::cry::hug::cry::hug:



I hope Teddy married Victorie. At least he got to grow up with the kick ass Godfather, unlike Harry.

[MadAsHellNewYorker]

159. awww

ur so emotional :hug:

[RevolutionaryActs]

160. Well yeah!

I've been reading these books since I was 12! Now it's all ooo-ooo-ver! :cry:


And Ron and Hermione got married! I've been waiting for them to hook-up since book three! :P

[MadAsHellNewYorker]

162. lol

yea, im sad its all over too. sigh. It was so much fun waiting for these great stories to come out. I guess Ill just have to start all over again.

[RevolutionaryActs]

163. Yup, me too.

Well I did already (started rereading them before this one came out) I'm half way through the fourth one now.


Now all I have are the movies. :P

[WolverineDG]

178. Can you imagine the trouble he got into at Hogwarts

as a Metamorph? :evilgrin: I cried when I read the part where Harry saw Lupin AND Tonk's bodies. I loved Tonks! :cry:

dg

[Danger Mouse]

182. I liked her, too, but Lupin was one of my favorites.

How did he die? So sad!

[FloridaJudy]

164. Was anyone else worried about Teddy?

When Lupin and Tonks' bodies appear among the dead? Poor little tyke has lost both parents and his grandfather. Who raised him - his grand-mum? And does the lad have any "furry" tendencies.

It's mentioned in the epilogue that he's a student at Hogwarts, and Harry did agree to be his godfather (and Harry would never allow a fellow orphan to be neglected). Still that hit me hard, especially since Lupin and Tonks were among my favorite characters.

[RevolutionaryActs]

165. I know!

I bet he was fine, though, in relation to the werewolf thing. And he wasn't a student any more, he would have been nineteen by then. He was there saying goodbye (and snogging) Victorie, whom I guess is Bill and Fleur's daughter. Since little James said cousin Victorie. :)


Oh, and like I said in another post; at least Teddy got to grow up with an awesome Godfather! And they mention that he comes over for dinner about four times week, so that's good! :D

[lildreamer316]

172. THIS was my biggest heartache of the book!!

That poor,beautiful,adorable little baby! And the fact the parents (AGAIN) missed out on his growing up!!
WAHHH!!:cry:
He seems to have turned out ok, though...

[LibraLiz1973]

198. Yeah, that was VERY upsetting

It bothered me all night

[Lavender Brown]

185. I kind of knew Lupin and Tonks would die...

when they introduced the baby storyline. JK Rowling talked about making the story come full circle... it begins and ends with an orphaned baby. I thought that was kind unnecessary though. x(

[AwakeAtLast]

245. Yes, and that moment had me howling with laughter!

Harry - "THIS is the moment?" :rofl:

[Kajsa]

144. Hi Elrond!

OK, all of you- it's all your fault!

What am I talking about? Good question!

After reading this thread and the many others on Harry's latest
book, I had to go out and buy it today.

I've never bought a Potter book before, but I've enjoyed the movies
that follow.

I have little time, so it will take a while for me to finish.

But I HAD to buy it, thanks to all of you.

;-) so when I'm done-( I'm only on Chapter 8) we can compare notes.

Right now I'm bummed that Mad Eye and Hedwig died!
--- or did they?

:hi: :hug:

[Danger Mouse]

149. Enjoy it...

but you're reading book 7 without having read book 6?
You're missing a lot.
:hug:

[Kajsa]

168. I'm finding that out as I read it.

I'm missing out on the Order of the Phoenix
and a number of other important points.

One of these days, I'll have to read the other books
as well.

:pals: :hi:

Edit: Oh yeah-

I KNEW from the very first Potter movie ' Sorcerer's Stone'
that Snape wasn't evil.
That came through to me at the very beginning.

[MadAsHellNewYorker]

153. Loved it, but the Epilogue sucked.

The end was great. The epilogue ruined it for me though. I was more interested in how and what happened after the fall of voldemort and his fake govt, not their stupid kids 19 years later. I wanted to know what would happen to those not in school for their 7th year? did they get to take their N.E.W.T.s? what did their jobs end up being? How did the magic world cope with the reveling that voldemort has been in charge for the last year? I was curious about Luna and the other side folks. It added nothing to the series to know that all the main charecters were all straight, married, and baby making machines.

Otherwise it was a great roller coaster ride. The only thing that disappointed me were the death of Tonks and Lupin. They seemed central before, and then it was like they were just dead. no discussion, no fight, just bodies on the floor. (even though I posted about that in your other thread ;))

[Scooter24]

166. I think she wanted the story to go on...

and not be so definitive and possibly opening up options for the story to continue later on.

From a recent article:

"So have we really seen the last of the staff and students of Hogwarts School of Witchcraft and Wizardry?

"Because the world is so big, there would be room to do other stuff," Rowling says carefully. "I am not planning to do that, but I'm not going to say I'm never going to do it."


I too would have liked to know more about the main cast and what has happened to them since their departure from Hogwarts.

[MadAsHellNewYorker]

167. Yea I could understand that

but after that epic battle, hearing about all those kids was just blah to me. Even a Daily Prophet article summing up a few things would have been better. i just didn't feel that hearing about what great heteronormative lives/families everyone had was a good ending to the series.

[Lyric]

161. I totally called that one too.

:thumbsup:

[Hawkeye-X]

169. Whew! I am glad I finished the book 1 second ago

and join the spoilers thread. Excellent finish, if I may say so!

[Hekate]

170. Thanks to everyone for this great thread! Longish comment here

I read the book way too fast, and now must wait for Mr. H. to have his turn before I can read it again. Once I started reading I simply couldn't make myself stop. Ooo the thrills, the chills -- I mean that literally. When Mr. H would interrupt me I would have to go back a page or three to make sure I picked up the story again. When my daughter phoned to say she was in the neighborhood with her two-year-old I >almost< had to weigh whether to tell her another time would be better to drop in!

But the parts that should have made me cry ended up being damped down because I was simply exhausted.

So once Mr. H is finished I will start over from page one and take it more slowly.

There was an afternoon party across the street today: the most unexpected people turned out to be total fans of the Potter story, and a couple of others were genuinely interested in why it was such a popular book-series. My very conservative religious neighbor was at Borders bookstore for the midnight party! He clearly doesn't see a damn thing satanic about Hogwarts!

I'm not entirely sure where the kvetching about the quality of JK Rowling's literary talent is coming from, though some of it is assuredly sour grapes. (I have read this whole thread.) Like so many of the rest of you I have a lifetime of reading a vast variety of material. I know good F&SF from schlock; there's also a whole "boarding-school genre" of British kids' lit that this series fits neatly into; and she has sent a young orphan on a Hero's Journey.

Rowling has created a coherent world and peopled it with engaging characters. She's made us care about them. She writes at a level that makes young readers want to reach for more and makes adult readers appreciate her universal themes and sources.

She created a smashing ending for the series, gave us a wee epilogue, and left us panting for more about a cast of characters who will live on forever in our imaginations.

My one and ONLY quibble about Book 7 is that Ginny deserves a more prominent role. I look forward to the rectification of that slight in the movie.

Whew! :hi:

Hekate

[WildEyedLiberal]

171. Snape was always my favorite character

I too have to brag in that my predictions about him were 100% correct from his loyalties to his love for Lily.

I was NOT happy, however, to be correct about his fate. (I was sure he'd die and... :cry: )

Harry naming his kid after Snape really choked me up too. He immediately understood everything Snape had been through for him, for all of them.

I know Lily knows what Severus did for her son and she will welcome him to the other side. I have to admit, though, I was hoping to get a glimpse of his portrait in the headmaster's office. He should have one too, after all!

[Danger Mouse]

173. I have no doubt that Harry told everyone the truth about Snape...

he said it directly to Voldemort with everyone watching, at the very least.
He would've wanted to clear his name.
I'm sure he was honored in death as a great hero, and from how Harry spoke at the end, I am assured his portrait sits right next to Dumbledore's in the headmaster's office. I bet they'll show that in the movie. :)

[WildEyedLiberal]

180. I bet he was buried at Hogwarts near Dumbledore

Harry mentions that Hogwarts had been home for the "abandoned boys" - he, Riddle, and Snape. I can imagine him having a place of honor near Dumbledore's tomb.

And yeah, that line in the epilogue about him really got to me too.

[Danger Mouse]

192. I agree.

After all, without Snape, none of it would've been possible. He worked behind the scenes and was just as instrumental in bringing down Voldemort as Harry and Neville.

[Firespirit]

179. Poor Snape...

I too am feeling very satisfied, though. I was in a betting pool (don't ask) and bet (1) Snape is good, (2) R.A.B. was Regulus, (3) the scar was a horcrux, and (4) Harry would survive. Still waiting to collect, because my sisters were the ones doing this, but apparently I was one of very few who went 4/4. (And yes, I know, it wasn't strictly the *scar*. But the scar is a part of Harry.) Partway through the book, though, I was pretty sure I'd gotten either (3) or (4) wrong, because it didn't seem that there could be any way he could have the last horcrux and get out of it alive.

That sucks BTW, that there's no "exorcism" curse to be used against such things and you have to destroy them instead. Three cool old artifacts mutilated beyond repair because of Voldemort's BS.

I agree with the comment just upthread that mentions that he should've had a portrait appear. He was a legitimate, recognized headmaster, because the gargoyles admitted him to the office and the portraits in the office regarded him as a legitimate headmaster. Voldemort thought he appointed him, but in reality it was Dumbledore's choice that he should be there. I guess we can assume that a portrait of our favorite hook-nosed professor will hang in the office, chastise the Dumbledore one when it acts goofy, and antagonize students for future generations. But it would've been nice to see it.

[Danger Mouse]

196. Can you imagine going to the Headmaster's office with Snape's portrait on the wall?

Those kids'll have something to be scared of, yes indeed :P
:scared:

[Lisa]

197. I'd like one of those for my office!

At my previous job, we had a really cranky Chair, and the students knew that he was likely to veto any concessions that he heard about ... so nobody tried going over my head to try to get a better deal. (Well, except for one guy, who had transferred in and didn't know the situation -- and he was quite shocked when he ended up being worse off after appealing to the Chair, than if he'd just been happy with what I'd suggested.) In a way, it was a good cop-bad cop kind of system.

[WritingIsMyReligion]

181. I absolutely adore McGonagall now.

HAHAHAHA, amazing woman. Kick-ass beyond belief. My respect for Luna also rose about 50,000 notches.

:bounce:

[Rabrrrrrr]

189. Yes yes yes! I had all faith in Dumbledore's faith in Snape.

And I was convinced that Snape had indeed killed Dumbledore per Dumbledore's instructions, not because Snape was a bad guy.

Snape's the real hero in the story - and I'm glad for it.

I, too, was very touched with Harry's words about Snape at the end - "You are named after two Hogwart's Headmasters" with no word of Snape only being there shortly, but giving him full dignity of the position, and then to call him the bravest man he knew.

Good stuff!

[Lisa]

190. someone in another thread mentioned Draco's family in the epilogue ...

It would be pretty funny if Draco's kid Scorpius ended up becoming friends with one of Ron or Harry's children. (Though that might be hard to arrange, unless one of them ended up in Slytherin.)

[Danger Mouse]

194. I bet Albus Severus will end up in Slytherin...

and be a credit to the house.
Damn Scorpius is a wicked name, though. :P

[AnnieBW]

215. Scorpius is a character from "Farscape"

The villain, as a matter of fact. This dude:



Makes me wonder if JKR is a Scaper.

[Ilsa]

202. Snape's death, then Fred's, Remus', and especially Tonks, sunk me.

I was pretty worked up thinking Harry might have been dead also, but then realized he had to come back.

[AnnieBW]

217. I had one of the twins in the Dead Pool

It would be really sad to make one of them live without the other. I thought that it was George at the beginning, but it turned out to be Fred. I'm not surprised that Lupin died, but I am surprised that Tonks died, too. I figured that one of them would die, since it's a truism everywhere that sex = death. Mad-Eye didn't surprise me one bit. Neither did Snape, Wormtail, or Dobby. I also had Hagrid in the Dead Pool, but I'm glad that he lived. Others that I'm surprised survived were Fleur, Kreacher, Percy, and Umbridge.

[Ilsa]

218. I had Percy as a goner, but glad he was able to see the error of his

arrogance. Fred's death hit me hard. The twins were a part of one another. I don't know how George will get by without his best mate. I dearly hoped that Umbridge would end up in the care of the dementors. I thought Tonks would have made a wonderfully popular professor at Hogwarts.

[Danger Mouse]

221. Kreacher and Percy came around. Umbridge gets to live...

that was she can serve out all of her life sentence in Azkaban. Maybe she'll get some practice with that little quill of hers.

[deadparrot]

206. While I loved the Snape bits,

I was kind of put off by the nauseatingly sickly-sweet ending.

Until the last 20-30 pages, though, I thought it was great.

[HughBeaumont]

211. That, and believe it or not, I was right on with the Epilogue.

I just KNEW at the end of the book she'd put something in of how their lives turn out. When you think about it, the story really has no end, so why not?

There were several of us debating whether Snape was on the level or not. For the most part we were all right about Dumbledore telling Snape to kill him, but I never predicted the love he had for Lily.

[XemaSab]

219. I've been grappling with my feelings for Snape for a long time, and now I feel I can openly say:

I love Snape. :loveya:

[Danger Mouse]

220. I think now you won't find many who don't.

:P

[Chovexani]

222. I think it's the best book in the series

I finished it at work today on my lunch hour and cried like an idiot.

My favorite part: NOT MY DAUGHTER, YOU BITCH! :woohoo: Molly Weasley for the fucking win.
My other favorite part was Harry's march to his doom, surrounded by Lily and the Marauders. Oh lord did that make me cry.

Neville also wins everything.

[Danger Mouse]

228. What really impresses me about Snape is this...

now that we know whose side he was REALLY on, all I can say...is DAMN he was just about the best actor ever, as well as one of the bravest mofos out there.
I mean, he succesfully convinced Voldemort he was on his side, so much so that he was Voldemort's personal favorite and considered to be his most loyal servant. The fact that Voldemort dispatched Snape so readily is just proof of Voldemort's utter lack of loyalty. He said 'I regret it'...and he meant it, but it was totally without feeling. He was angry when Bellatrix got killed, but not because he actually gave a shit about her. She was useful. As was Snape.
However, the fact that he favored Snape over Bellatrix, considering that Bella's creepy slobbering over Voldemort was actually (ugh) GENUINE, is an impressive feat.
And also to be THAT close to Voldemort, with the full knowledge that his expoure would lead to the mission he had devoted his life to failing and him dying horribly...talk about pressure! Snape did his best...he never gave up, and didn't even let dying stop him from doing what he needed to do. He did things that NONE of the other characters would've been able to do. How many other characters would've been able to kill Dumbledore like that...doing what was NECESSARY, even if it wasn't necessarily RIGHT?
All I'm saying is...Snape was quite a person. JKR gave us a beautiful anti-hero. Or tragic hero. Whichever you prefer.

[kay1864]

242. And thank FSM that Alan Rickman is playing him

[WolverineDG]

247. I had him pegged as Snape

when I read the first book ages before they thought of making movies out of the books. "Wouldn't Alan Rickman be great as Snape?" IIRC, he sat down with JK & discussed the character, even finding out what would happen to him in the end.

dg

[Danger Mouse]

236. Thanks everyone for a wonderful thread!

A thread with hardly any snark arguing or meanishness! Wow!
And it was a big help in getting me to post 5000 ;)
Thanks everybody! :hi:

[XemaSab]

239. Kick for the peeps who just finished.

ps My love for Snape will NEVER DIE! :loveya: