"YOU don't believe in God? And you're an American?"

[Taverner]

Said the Fundie...granted this was in a red state known for it's Christian views - but still. I was staying a local hotel in a major city, when I saw this plethora of middle-age men clutching earmarked and well worn bibles. I went up to one of the men and I asked what was going on. He explained it was a weekly bible study, and I was welcome to join. I politely declined, but he pushed further.

"Do you have something better to do than get right with God?"

"Yes, as a matter of fact I have a lot of things to do. I have to work for one," it was 9am, "and I don't believe in God anyway."

This is where things got strange. Somehow I'm not an American if I don't believe in God.

"Nope. I used to, but then I read up on the evidence. There is no evidence that God exists, even less that Jesus Christ was a living person who walked the Earth and absolutely zero that he was of a virgin birth and returned from the dead."

The man was scrambling to think of something - but face it, if you believe in God, and you come accross someone who doesn't, you have no standing. None. You might as well be speaking a different language. You can always try to get a fence sitter to jump the fence to your side, but no way you can make an Atheist suddenly believe in a deity, much less your deity and all of the accouterments surrounding it.

But the American part made me laugh. This was a nation founded by Atheists, Deists and Freethinking Freemasons. The god of America has ALWAYS been commerce, not communion.

[Tyler Durden]

1. I've started carrying a Q'Ran with me...

If they start trying to convert me, I start trying to convert THEM. They are usually too stupid to "get" that a real Muslim would have a Q'Ran in ARABIC, not an English Translation!

[hyphenate]

27. You might also try

carrying around L. Ron Hubbard's "Dianetics" with you. I know a lot of people and Xtians consider Scientology as a cult. :D

[Taverner]

29. I know a lot of Atheists who consider Scientology a cult

But hey, I think Evangelical Christianity is a cult

Any world view that asks you to substitute their judgment for your own is a cult in my opinion.

[cobalt1999]

2. They have a strategy for "non committed" believers, but

obviously they couldn't even comprehend how to begin with you.

Un-american isn't too bad. I know folks that think I'm a child-abuser for not taking my kids to church.

[Taverner]

5. I hear you

And I tend to agree with Dawkins when he says taking your kids TO church is child abuse :)

[SteppingRazor]

3. The editor in me feels compelled to mention that...

you've used "dearth" the opposite of the way it's intended. I'm sorry. It's a compulsion.


Moving past that, though, yeah, I've had similar sentiments expressed to me before. It's amazing how convinced some people are that this is a Christian nation, founded by Christians with Christian values, etc., etc.

[Taverner]

4. There switched it to plethora

Happy? :P

[SteppingRazor]

6. Yes. Yes, I am.

:P

[LordJFT]

7. Founding Fathers

I know TJ was a deist, do you know what other founding fathers were atheists and deists? It'd be nice to be able to use it in an argument with the "founded on christian values" crowd.

[WritingIsMyReligion]

8. Pretty much all of them.

Ben Franklin played at being Presbyterian, but I think that was mostly show. Same with George Washington.

[Taverner]

12. TJ was pretty much an atheist

He only claimed deist to be in with the religious crowd - remember, despite his wisdom and sage he WAS a politician.

[hfojvt]

52. Depends on how you define 'founding father'

In the 'they were all atheists and deists' argument, usually only 6 are talked about - Paine, Adams, Jefferson, Franklin, Madison, and Washington. Yet, there were 56 delegates to the Constitutional Convention
http://www.adherents.com/gov/Founding_Fathers_Religion.html

That site may have an agenda, like most sites do. It does not count any atheists in its foxholes, and mentions 3 or 4 deists along with proclaimed religions.

Freemasonry is mentioned as an alternative belief system, but I wonder if that gives Freemasonry too much credit. Is Freemasonry all that different from Lions, Rotary, Kiwanis, Elks, Eagles, IOOF, etc., etc.? Is it more than just a club where bigshots get to know each other and socialize? Does membership in the Freemasons trump all other memberships, such as church membership? (Church membership and attendance can also be for social, economic, and political reasons.)

Also about Deists. Is a deist closer to a Christian or closer to an atheist? To a Christian fundamenalist the distinction is moot since all deviance is condemned as heresy, but liberal Christians are more inclusive. The quote from Franklin which is in my journal sums it up well. What Franklin said he believed, and what he called the essentials of every religion seems to me very close to the essentials of Christianity. At least of Christianity preached by Jesus as opposed to Christianity preached by dogmatic control-freaks (see, for example, my journal entry about truth and pi.)

[Az]

9. I have encountered a lot of theists that just had no idea that there were atheists

It blows their minds when they actually bump into one that is willing to talk about it. I remember one time some guy was just shocked. He thought atheists were a myth. I had to bite my tongue to keep from laughing.

[Shine]

10. I believe in God/Goddess/Great Spirit/Divinity....there are many names

but I don't feel compelled to talk somebody else out of their personal beliefs and I certainly would never connect one's spiritual beliefs (or lack thereof) with being unAmerican. :eyes:

I get the feeling you and I view the world quite differently, Taverner...but I'd still have a beer with you any day. :toast: :D

:hi:

[alphafemale]

11. Can you imagine roving bands of Atheists going door to door on a Saturday morning...

Trying to de-convert people?

:rofl:

[Taverner]

13. Actually you probably have more in common with my worldview

...than you do with an evangelical or fundamentalist Christian. Al Gore kind of put it into perspective for me. He's definitely a Christian, but he trusts reason, as do you and I. That is where the fundies and us part ways.

[TZ]

14. And its not at all like that in other countries

I have a friend that is not American and he is the one atheist in his family. His brother and aunt in particular are very religious (born agains) but they are all okay with him being an atheist and NEVER try to convert him, in fact are okay with his beliefs and accept him as he is. Can you imagine that in this country? No way...

[Taverner]

15. Not only that, but in Europe Atheism is the dominant worldview

It's only here that we still adhere to a religious worldview.

[SacredCow]

16. Without fail.....

If I happen upon a group (or is it a gaggle?) of folks carrying around bibles, I avoid any and all interaction. There's really no good outcome otherwise....

[Initech]

17. Oh how I hate the "you're with us or against us" mentality. Makes me sick.

[NewWaveChick1981]

18. I am in the process for hiring a new employee...

...and I have received several applications that reference God and "have a blessed day." :yoiks: There is no way I'd hire someone who spouted off about God at any given moment. We deal with a very diverse student population, and there have been times students and parents have taken offense (rightly so) at remarks like that.

Needless to say, those particular applicants don't have a chance in hell of even getting an interview. :P

[Taverner]

19. Right on!

:yourock:

:headbang:

[NewWaveChick1981]

21. Thanks! Sanity must prevail...

:hi: :D :*

[ThomCat]

30. Thank God you're in charge!

:P

[NewWaveChick1981]

33. Thanks, ThomCat!

:hi: :D :rofl: Thank WHO??? :P

[idgiehkt]

39. that is code

Good for you for not falling for it. Whenever someone tells me that a certain business is "Christian-owed" or even that the people there are xtian it makes me very leery in general because it is a sales technique, I think. Which is really low-down when you think about it, them whoring the thing they supposedly hold dear to make more money. But they do that I guess because they think you might be a fundie and it will score them brownie points...what is funny to me is that these folks probably have zero concept that they might ever be rejected for a job because of that, lol. :hi:

[NewWaveChick1981]

48. I figured as much.

:hi: They have no clue that a godless heathen librul is the hiring officer. :rofl: And on my watch, people like that will ALWAYS be rejected for a job. :D Intolerance and fundamentalism have no place in an office that must not be judgmental or discriminatory.

[SPKrazy]

55. why, oh why do you hate 'merikuh NWC?

:rofl:

I HATE the "have a blessed day" I hear people say that or have it on an answering or voicemail message, booo! no way.

I don't wanna have a "blessed day". I want to have a good day. Who's doing the blessing? The person saying it? What standing do they have to offer a blessing? :rofl:

I'm glad that you are the one hiring too. There's enough nuts around thankyou very much.

:hug:

[NewWaveChick1981]

57. Thanks, Mr. Kicker...

:P :hi: :* So damn many people in this area are so incredibly over-the-top fundamentalist that it makes me sick. I'm sure as hell not going to have that around me or any of the population we serve.

:D

[SPKrazy]

62. so now it's "Mr. Kicker?"

how about "Mr. Kicker, Sir!" like it was before :D

:rofl:

:hug:

[Generic Brad]

58. At the DOJ they would be a shoe in for an interview though

At least they were when Monica Goodling was hiring.

[NewWaveChick1981]

61. Yep, it was one of the hiring criteria.

:rofl: Maybe the applicants for our job just need to go to the DOJ....:P I'm having none of that...:rofl:

[My Good Babushka]

20. think of the children!

I was on my porch with my two little boys when my neighbor came by with her daughter and another girl on their way home from Vacation Bible School. The mother made them stop and sing us the song they'd just learned. It was awful! What could I say? Where could we go? Why would she just assume we wanted to hear that? I don't sing Darwin carols at her house!

[TZ]

22. Darwin Carols? LOL...

I would love to actually have some of those..could be fun to sing when some fundi tries to "convert" me (I am Jewish so thats a reflex to those types)

[Oeditpus Rex]

24. Kinda like this?

Not really, but it's as close as I could come. :P



All things dull and ugly
All creatures short and squat
All things rude and nasty
The Lord God made the lot

Each little snake that poisons
Each little wasp that stings
He made their brutish venom
He made their horrid wings

All things sick and cancerous
All evil great and small
All things foul and dangerous
The Lord God made them all

Each nasty little hornet
Each beastly little squid
Who made the spikey urchin?
Who made the sharks? He did!

All things scabbed and ulcerous
All pox both great and small
Putrid, foul and gangrenous
The Lord God made them all

Amen


Composer: John Du Prez
Author: Eric Idle
From "Monty Python's Contractual Obligation Album"

[ThomCat]

31. That is great!

If you could get a video of some people singing that with pious reverence and put it online it would become an immediate hit! :7

[Oeditpus Rex]

32. I doubt there's video

There's audio, but I can't link directly to it, so... if you go here http://arago4.tnw.utwente.nl/stonedead/albums-cds/albums-cds/menu-frame.html , then click "Monty Python Sings (1989)" then "All Things Dull and Ugly," clicking on the lyrics will open the Real Audio file.

It was performed by a children's choir, making it even funnier. :D

[ThomCat]

36. That is awesome! Thank you for the link.

:)

[Neoma]

45. I heart that.

[TheMightyFavog]

51. Actually, that wasn't my VBS experience.

VBS, in my view (I was raised ELCA Lutheran) was more a "Get the little shits out of the bloody house so that Mum can have some peace and quiet for the better part of the day (and possibly have time to have a spot of fun with daddy while the tykes are at VBS carving Ivory soap crosses)."

[lizerdbits]

60. That's what happened to me

My parents were raised Catholic and are semi deists now. There wasn't a Catholic church close by (they probably wouldn't have sent us there anyway based on their childhood stories) but my sister and I did go to the Baptist and Methodist bible schools to free her up for a couple weeks of peace and quiet during the day. It was a small town so we usually had school friends that went to each, so we tagged along. There was one fundy church in town we were not to go to and were told if anyone approached us from those grounds to not talk to them. Can't remember the denomination.

[LNM]

23. That's funny.

I have a story. I was sitting on the North Rim of the Grand Canyon one beautiful Sunday morning. I had bought something at the souvenir shop and the bag was sitting next to me. A young woman walked up to me and started chatting about what a beautiful day it was and asked what I had bought. I told her and asked what she had bought. No big deal, just being friendly. She then asked me if I would like to pray with her. I looked her in the eye and deadpanned "I'm an atheist". Her mouth popped open, eyes opened wide and she slowly backed away from me as if I had just grown horns. I had a hard time not laughing at her.

:rofl:

[Oeditpus Rex]

25. 'Get right with god'

It occurs to me that a deity would accept its underlings as they are, not govern them by fear.

[Taverner]

28. Yeah, isn't there an old Baptist hymn called "Just as I am" ?

[TheCentepedeShoes]

26. "Get right with god"

No, but I'll "get tight" with god. Send him over and I'll stand a round.

[redqueen]

34. Amen... commerce.

What's with these fundies thinking they own this country? Ugh. *ptui*

[YellowRubberDuckie]

35. I mentioned the Masons once in a letter to the editor....

Some idiot wrote and said that the masons were bricklayers. He's only half right...
Duckie

[Left Is Write]

37. If someone encouraged me to join a Bible study so I could "get right with God,"

I'd just tell him that my relationship with God is none of his business and that I conduct my Bible studies privately, alone with my Bible.

What could he possibly say to that?

[GirlinContempt]

38. Masons freak me out

[Oeditpus Rex]

40. Me too

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGAtBNzccdU

:scared:

[baldguy]

41. "You're asking a question like that? And you're an American?"

[Rue]

53. I'll say amen to that. (nt)

[riderinthestorm]

42. Oh man, I can relate!!!

Wheaton, Il here - home of Billy Graham's evangelical proselytizing mecca mountain (our lingo for the monstrosity he funded at Wheaton College to train tv preachers!)

First question in any conversation is "what church do you go to?" That precedes any discussion of playdates, PTA committee issues, the weather, or even gossip. I've been told to my face that I'm not an American since I'm an atheist. More than once actually. More than a dozen times if truth be told.

[proud patriot]

43. We are spoiled in the Bay Area

:hi:

[ironflange]

44. Just ask back. . .

"Do you believe in the Flying Spaghetti Monster?"

Well, there's no less evidence for the FSM's existence.

[Neoma]

46. Hehe.

Of course I do!

[Neoma]

47. Well...

It could be worse.

[Rob H.]

49. Years ago when I started a new job...

I was talking to the VP of Finance's secretary and she mentioned that we both commuted in from the same small town, whereupon she asked, "Where do you go to church?" I just said, "I don't." She looked at me as if a second nose had suddenly sprouted from the middle of my forehead. It's the first time I'd ever shocked someone speechless--wish I'd taken a picture!

[MedleyMisty]

50. Man - I must be good at picking people to talk to and hang out with.

The worst I ever got was my best friend asking why I didn't drink or do drugs since I didn't believe in God.

Once at work someone asked if I had a church home. I had never heard the phrase before and I work at a realty company, so I was straining to think if I'd ever heard radio ads for a builder named Church Homes. She noticed my confusion and said, "Sorry, you just seemed so Christ-like." and that was it.

And yes, I live in the South. In the town with a Billy Graham Parkway and the recently opened Billy Graham museum, no less. But then I tend to not pick maybe 5-10% of the population and paint the rest of the town, county, state, or region with that brush.

[Labors of Hercules]

54. A funny think happened on the street today...

I stubbed my toe and yelled "shit that hurt!" This woman standing there waiting for the bus glared at me and said "watch that potty mouth, God doesn't like it when people curse his name." That made me kinda mad so I replied, "Are you implying that I said God's name is shit?" and glared back at her with a highly offended expression.

The funny thing is, I don't believe in God either.

[joneschick]

56. priceless

:hi:

[Generic Brad]

59. I've been accused of the same thing by my family

I don't believe in God so I must be un-American. And since I married a foreign national it only bolstered their argument. Sheesh.