"Homosexuality isn't natural"

[Taverner]

I got this stupid ass excuse last night when talking to some of the more RW members of the family.

Well, in truth it is natural. Many different animals practice it, and it's been practiced by humans since we first stood upright.

And if it isn't natural, neither is flying in airplanes, driving in cars, eating food you didn't kill yourself, eating grain that didn't pop up naturally...I could go on.

[begin_within]

1. Maybe not at first, but after a few practice sessions it gets a lot more natural.

[UncleSepp]

3. LOL!!! Good one.

[UncleSepp]

2. Neither is monogamy or wiping your butt. Doesn't matter

Folks who have beliefs which are not based on rational thought won't necessarily change them based on rational argument. It depends on the basis for the belief. If not rational, then what?

Are the beliefs mistaken conclusions draw through normal thought processes from incorrect or inadeqate data? Then you've got a chance with a rational appeal. Are the beliefs emotional? Emotionally held beliefs - the 'I feel' or 'I know in my heart' beliefs - may be subject to emotional arguments. Relieve the fears or reveal the love and you've got a shot at changing the belief. Perhaps the beliefs are aesthetic - the 'it seems to me' beliefs, or the 'it should be' beliefs, usually propped up by analogies - may be approached by showing the beauty and balance in the proposed new belief. If the beliefs are delusional, based on loose connections and bad pattern matching, there's no amount of argument that's going to do anything but reinforce the belief.

[Deja Q]

10. I thought some species did practice monogamy

Like Canadian Geese?

Indeed, most bird species are said to be monogamous. (So being "bird brained" isn't always bad! :spray: )

Personally, people can do what they want. It's not possible to control them and few people can influence anymore. I still question my own mores and morals and have even fought my own mindset. Maybe one day I shall succeed.

[InvisibleTouch]

12. Actually all those "monogamous" birds...

...have been shown to mate outside the pair-bond quite often, once the DNA of the offspring, parents, and nearby "singles" was looked at. Lots of females will pair-bond with an established male who has a large territory, for instance, who can provide for the offspring - but she mates on the side with the young stud whom she judges to have the best DNA. There's not a moral judgment to be made about it, either - it's just a strategy to poisition her offspring in the best possible way, relative to everyone else's offspring. That's just evolution. :)

[La Lioness Priyanka]

13. this is true..three of the four eggs belong to another male.

its much like having your stable mate and your one night stands..

[Deja Q]

16. Or 'the herd principle'

Mind you, you also said if the male can provide... surely you mean 'if the female thinks the male can provide', which is also sad because this mating nonsense is just a game anyway... or that's how people seem to treat it.

[terrya]

4. There has never, ever been a time when I have thought....

That homosexuality wasn't "natural".

Ever.

Of course, I'm gay, so I guess I'm sort of prejudiced on the subject.

[mockmonkey]

5. There are animals

that can change their sex. Is that natural? Of course! People who say something isn't natural know nothing about nature.
http://www.abc.net.au/science/news/stories/s972806.htm

[xchrom]

6. feels pretty damn natural when i'm goin at it.

and you can very global with that expression.

it can -- or it doesn't have to be -- all naughty.

[ThatsMyBarack]

7. Even if it isn't "natural"....

....is it any of the RWers' business?

[rug]

8. "I do not approve of anything which tampers with natural ignorance." - Oscar Wilde

[La Lioness Priyanka]

9. first few times it seemed unnatural..now it feels very much part of my nature

[NewWaveChick1981]

11. "Natural" to RWers is to be judgmental and close-minded.

No wonder they have problems with homosexuality. To me, it's not "natural" to be judgmental and close-minded. :P

[Initech]

14. I want to punch people in the face when they say that.

Honestly, humans do tons of stuff that isn't natural.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

15. almost everything we do now isnt natural

just because antibiotics arent found in nature doesnt mean i am not grateful for them

[Courtesy Flush]

17. Please stop posting on this website

The internet isn't natural, after all.

Tell your family that they have now committed themselves to only do what is natural. They must give up their jobs, homes, and cars. They must give up religion, medicine, and birth control. The must give up politics, and fashion, and literacy. They must give up clothing, power tools, and hot showers.

Then they can lecture you.

[Courtesy Flush]

18. Seriously, though

Point out to them every unnatural thing they do (aside from eating and breathing, pretty much everything we do is unnatural). They must stop them all at once!

[La Lioness Priyanka]

22. the eating we do is not natural either...

[6000eliot]

19. The question is why they care so much if it is or isn't.

[JuniperLea]

20. Mother Nature Knows Best

It would feel totally unnatural to go against your "urges" no matter what direction they took.

Who knows why Mom Nature decided there should be homosexuals, but I'm sure there's a reason. I don't know why deers have antlers either, but I'm sure they are supposed to have them!

[Xipe Totec]

21. Flying is not natural either

Neither is hair dye, plastic surgery, or landing on the moon.

Now what was their point? :shrug:

[crim son]

23. I hear you!

Although we never let it get into a real argument, my mother brought up a story where in her town, a new female minister made it be known that she welcomed all people to her church, gay and straight alike. This is unusual in the bible belt and apparently the church has become a refuge for gay Christians. My mother says "it has been observed" that the straight people are fleeing the congregation, and she believes this is a terrible thing. It is indeed terrible, I told her, to think that people would be so narrow and bigoted as to leave a church simply because it has opened it's doors to diversity. Her response is that people feel "uncomfortable." Well, no shit; if they are so afraid of gay people that they can't even share a pew with them! We have gone back and forth on the matter the past few days. My mother is a liberal Catholic and usually open minded. Not on some matters however. I tell her what I think and why and hope for the best. At least we can keep the discussion civil. It isn't easy, Taverner.