Shocking! Who could have guessed Paris is rude!?!

[cobalt1999]

Personnally, when my wife and I visit, if we don't get a rude waiter at least once we are disappointed...



http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/oukoe_uk_paris_tourists

"Paris Syndrome" leaves tourists in shock

PARIS - Around a dozen Japanese tourists a year need psychological treatment after visiting Paris as the reality of unfriendly locals and scruffy streets clashes with their expectations, a newspaper reported on Sunday.

"A third of patients get better immediately, a third suffer relapses and the rest have psychoses," Yousef Mahmoudia, a psychologist at the Hotel-Dieu hospital, next to Notre Dame cathedral, told the newspaper Journal du Dimanche.

Already this year, Japan's embassy in Paris has had to repatriate at least four visitors -- including two women who believed their hotel room was being bugged and there was a plot against them.

"Fragile travelers can lose their bearings. When the idea they have of the country meets the reality of what they discover it can provoke a crisis," psychologist Herve Benhamou told the paper.

The phenomenon, which the newspaper dubbed "Paris Syndrome", was first detailed in the psychiatric journal Nervure in 2004.

Bernard Delage of Jeunes Japon, an association that helps Japanese families settle in France, said:

"In Japanese shops, the customer is king, whereas here assistants hardly look at them ... People using public transport all look stern, and handbag snatchers increase the ill feeling."

A Japanese woman, Aimi, told the paper:

"For us, Paris is a dream city. All the French are beautiful and elegant ... And then, when they arrive, the Japanese find the French character is the complete opposite of their own."

[badgerpup]

1. It would be extremely hard on the Japanese...

They have one of the most courtesy-concious societies on the planet.

[walldude]

2. Need psychological treatment??

Oh grow up. "Oohh I need to see a shrink! A Frenchman was rude to me!" :eyes:

[kiahzero]

5. How empathetic of you. (n/t)

[bumblebee1]

7. Frenchman- rude???

I've had more rudeness from American men that I've ever had from a Frenchman or any other foreign man.

[cobalt1999]

14. well, even the french will tell you that Paris is a rude city.

My experience is that once you get outside of Paris, the politeness quotient goes up.

Still, even the famous Paris rudeness can be entertaining.

[SouthernBelle82]

24. I agree

I would hate to see what happens to those people when they come to America.

[badgerpup]

29. There's a bit of culture shock, believe me.

My ni-chan is Japanese, and he had a very rough time adjusting to American 'manners'.
What we accept as just everyday give-and-take would be considered EXTREME rudeness in Japan.

Watch Iron Chef sometime, when the panelists are tasting. If they don't like something, they'll say something like "I don't have the palate to appreciate this properly", or "The pepper overpowers the clam"...or something similar.
Only ONCE did a woman come right out and say "I DON'T LIKE THIS!" and the reaction around the table was SHOCK.
Think of somebody at a formal dinner suddenly standing up and exposing themselves...that kind of shock.

[nam78_two]

3. ???!!!

They need psychological treatement because of rudeness???!!!! "Relapses", "psychoses"...Just how rude are these people :wow: ???!!!

"In Japanese shops, the customer is king, whereas here assistants hardly look at them ... People using public transport all look stern, and handbag snatchers increase the ill feeling."

I still don't quite understand how this leads to such severe problems :shrug:? Surely there would be more to this than that??!!! I should look up this study in Nature...I still can't quite believe the news item.

Well I guess this is why I have never seen Japanese tourists when visiting India, Sri-Lanka etc. The stark poverty, disease etc. would probably shock them more even than the rudeness in Paris :-/....

[TAPat]

4. I had to double check the link

to make sure it wasn't the Onion! :rofl:

[Demit]

6. So it was Paris that convinced one guy he was the "Sun King"?

He had exhibited no unusual symptoms before that? LOL! I want to know more. What a strange affliction.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

8. Ah, culture shock.

I knew visting Japan was weird. I hadn't thought about the other way around.

[sui generis]

11. bingo

violated expectations.

Even what they consider "rude" isn't really rude so much as different from their own culture. Norms on rudeness vary tremendously.

Also, they're generalizing. If you go there, be friendly, do your best to try to speak some tiny bit of French at every opportunity, and expect people to be friendly, generally you won't be disappointed. If you go there and expect to be waited on hand and foot, that's like going to a market in Mexico and expecting not to have to haggle. Haggling isn't rude, it's expected, even a game. So is getting someone's exclusive attention in a store.

Same dynamic, different goal.

That and, for heavens sake we'll talk about the most insipid things with each other, but won't even try to make "small talk" with someone else. Be personable - ask about local knowledge; be curious. What does that thing over there stand for? Is that a good bistro or do you have a favorite one close by? Things like that.

[TechBear_Seattle]

20. I was in Paris a few years ago

I took the time to study up on the culture, like I do every time I visit a new country for the first time. Learned a few tricks (always greet the shopkeeper when you enter a store; always ask your waiter about the wine, even if it is just, "Would a glass of this go well with this entree?", that sort of thing) and never had a problem with rudeness or poor service.

Then again, I live in Seattle, where passive-agressive behavior is a well-honed art form. I probably fit in better than the average American tourist. :hi:

[radwriter0555]

28. what???? Making an effort!!!???? how dare you!

You're right, especially about the greeting of the shopkeeper.

The french are indeed offended if you do not greet them when you enter their shop. They immediately know you're not french! Even when we enter the doctor's office waiting room, it's customary to greet everyone in the waiting room...

Formality and politeness is important.

[cobalt1999]

12. Yes, Japan is very focused on manners

When I went there for business, I had lessons to understand all the rules of their society. I too never thought about what would happen to take a Japanese person raised in such a culture and toss them into Paris. Even then, it does seem a little extreme to need therapy.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

13. The thing about culture shock...

and home sickness is that it can exacerbate underlying problems, such as depression.

College freshmen, for example, often have problems with it and end up dropping out and going back home.

I'd also say that twelve out of the thousands and thousands of Japanese tourists who visit and enjoy France every year is statistically irrelevant.

I wonder at the purpose of this article.

[Sinti]

16. Purpose = French bashing. Rude French cause psychosis in polite Japanese n/t

[nam78_two]

17. yeah/nt

[cobalt1999]

19. Actually, I took it as an indictment of the insular Japanese

rather than any real French bashing.

[SouthernBelle82]

27. I took it as

an interesting story on culture shock.

[LisaM]

9. Wait - isn't it TOKYO that has the problem of subway groping?

Where the problem of men groping women is so terrible that they have to put women on their own cars? And isn't it also Japan where the syndrome of dropping dead from overwork is so common that they have a special word for it?

I've been to Paris and everyone was very nice to us.

[Bassic]

41. I was under the impression that

that was in Rio or Sao Paolo.

[MorningGlow]

43. Probably everywhere

I was groped on the London tube :puke: -- seems to be a result of overcrowding, not culture.

[Warpy]

10. Culture clash!

I get the same thing when I visit the south.

I've never needed a shrink to deal with it, it just reminds me why I left and why I've lived elsewhere since I've had a choice.

Southerners have equivalent trouble trying to cope with New York and New England.

[SouthernBelle82]

26. Oh I don't know

I know someone from here who moved up to Boston about a year or so ago and from how she talked about Boston she really liked it there. Now she is in Austria for something with her school. She has been to other places before Boston so perhaps that is why she didn't have a big culture shock and went with a friend.

[Shipwack]

15. Not particularly surprised...

... though the need for "therapy" might be a bit extreme.

My best friend is French, and he told me that most of France consider Parisians to be excessively rude... He claims that Paris is in its own little world.

[sui generis]

22. eh, silliness

that's what they say about New York too, and I've never met a new yorker who fit the stereotype of a rude heartless ass.

The fact is that people who live in the countryside or even just a different region of the same country always feel like "rubes" in the big city, and city slickers often feel like foreign tourists in their own country outside the city limits.

If everyone would just go where the day takes them without trying to guess what everyone else thinks; really it's not all about us, there'd be a lot less craziness. Same thing about the North and The South, of Germany, and of Italy, and of Spain, and of Sweden and of you name it.

The southerners are always laid back hayseeds and wide eyed bumpkins with no work ethic and the northerners are always industrious and dreadfully in style and up to the moment. The secret that neither side admits is that both sides view themselves as superior to the other, based on the same set of insecurities.

Yeah yeah - the northerners can keep Berlin, I'll take Munchen any day. Bier hier, und Spargelfest und Vogeln am morgen.

Besides, someone should tell those self-absorbed snobs in Berlin that I think black is just as dark as it needs to be. There's no point in wearing it while waiting for something darker to come along. Really. :P

[Kellanved]

40. It's hard to compete with Vögeln am morgen

So, I guess in your case Munich will indeed win. :D

The Asparagus is better in Berlin, though.

[Richardo]

42. That's a great sign/countersign

"It's hard to compete with Vögeln am morgen."

"The asparagus is better in Berlin, though."

<They exchange briefcases and walk in opposite directions.>

[novalib]

self-delete

sorry about double post.

[novalib]

18. Nichole Can Be Rude, Too.....

Its' not just Paris Hilton whose rude.

[petronius]

37. Really - it's so unfair

However, I've gotta say that the last time I was in Paris things got really ugly...

:evilgrin:

[MorningGlow]

44. Snort

That was the first thing I thought of, too, when I saw the subject line. I think I read too many gossip columns...

[6000eliot]

21. I've never had a rude waiter in Paris,

even when "anti-American" sentiment was supposedly at its highest. The people there are always friendly and accommodating. I don't know what Japan is like.

[SouthernBelle82]

23. Talk about a culture shock

I'm sure it would be hard if you're used to something 100% opposite.

[verse18]

25. My family and I were in Paris and England this summer-

IMO the Parisans were very kind and helpful when we were trying make our way around the city. The Brits, however were extremely rude. Even the Underground workers had bad attitudes. But that was our experience.

[bicentennial_baby]

30. Everyone was nice to me in Paris...

The hotel people, the school people, my classmates, shopkeepers, the dude Jerome at Starbucks, and my main men at the CyberCube...All quite pleasant folks :)

[treestar]

31. Fascinating how cultures interact

For example, the Japanese playing baseball or symphonies - amazing how they adopted those items of American/European culture into their own. Yet others with equal exposure may not have. Or the rudeness of Paris affects them differenctly than it might affect Americans or British.

Or the way some cultures can get in synch where others have a harder time - for instance I think Americans doing business with the Chinese is rough - they somehow have a different attitude, different in a way that clashes with the American attitude and vice versa. Whereas Americans and Arabs can get along, strangely enough, in that environment.

[drb]

32. Bullshit. I spent 10 days in Paris on about three sentences....

...of French, and I found exactly the opposite. Everyone is much more formally polite than we are. The Japanese tourists I've run across are all pushy and crap - it's no wonder the Frence don't think much of them.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

33. 12 doesn't seem like a terribly large number of tourists

Especially given how much the Japanese tend to travel. I've yet to go anywhere on the planet where I've not run into a group of Japanese tourists. Seriously. I was in Salt Lake City last month, and you guessed it...Everywhere. Be it the Salt Lake, Antelope Island, the big Temple downtown, there they'd be. Which is great for me because I was stationed in Japan for 3 years and learned a little of the language so I like to chat with them. I'll bet thousands of Japanese visit Paris every year and emerge from the experience no worse for the wear. Some people are just very sensitive. The people who had to be treated might suffer from severe anxiety. Don't blame Paris for it.

Gah! :eyes:

[gauguin57]

34. In two trips to france, the only really rude people i've encountered were

a few clerks at the Paris Metro ticket office and one waitress in a cafe near Chartres (she rolled her eyes and sighed when I ordered coffee with my pizza slice. pardonnez-moi!)

In other parts of France, I talked to lots of pleasant, helpful people who were willing to listen to my mangled french and try to assist me.

[fujiyama]

35. Thought it sounded like an onion article

Anyways, I have not been to France or Japan, but am somewhat familiar with Japanese culture to a limited extent. Manners and formality are certainly very important in Japanese culture. They are very polite.

Twelve isn't a huge number though. It isn't indicative of anything in particular.

For what it's worth, my sister was in Paris and she said they were very considerate and helpful, offering to help with her luggage, etc at the train station. She had a good time in London too though.

I think the problem is some people just don't have any idea of a foreign culture before traveling. There's no need to be an expert, but a little education about a foreign culture beforehand wouldn't hurt.

[RB TexLa]

36. delete

[La_Fourmi_Rouge]

38. In Lyon we listen to this and smile...

As the saying goes, "Parisiens hate each other more than they hate everyone else."

I think those Japanese in Paris need to go to all-Japanese hotels, eat at Japanese restaurants, and avoid the French culture like the plague.

Frankly, in my book, you have not lived until your surly Parisien waiter refuses to scramble your eggs...

[Richard Steele]

39. It's not about "rude"; cultures have different "interpersonal boundaries".

So many people have ideas in their heads about what
France is like. Ideas they get from 50 years worth
of TV and Movies.

Then they go there, and are shocked to discover that
the French feel no compulsion to act like the fictional
stereotypes from the movies the tourists have seen.

I had some Norwegian visitors spend a week in my home
once. Although they had seen the film "Dirty Harry",
I still went the entire week without shooting any "scumbags"
with my S&W .44 magnum. knowhutImean?

The Japanese TOURIST quoted in the article really
serves as a fine example of a clueless human raised
in a sterile bubble:
"For us, Paris is a dream city.
All the French are beautiful and elegant ...
And then, when they arrive, the Japanese find the French
character is the complete opposite of their own.""

Gee, the French are not only REAL PEOPLE, with a history
and culture of their own... they're DIFFERENT from you!
GASP! Exclaim shock!
CLUTCH THE PEARLS, Aimi- the french aren't Japanese!

And when you're done with all that, HEY:
Why not take a moment to pull your head out of your ass?
Yeah, the French aren't Japanese.

And if this comes as such a SHOCK to some people
that they need THERAPY to get over it...
then "some people" just oughta think twice about
leaving the safety and comfort of their own
living rooms in the first place.