How many school days does your start mandate on a school's yearly calendar

[pstokely]

In Missouri, it's around 175

[In_The_Wind]

1. In NY ~ 180.

[China_cat]

2. 180

[LibDemAlways]

3. In Calif. they are really into "minutes of instruction" per

school year. For K its 36,000; Grades 1-3 50,400; Grades 4-8 54,000; and 9-12 64,800.

Now this is all total BS. Last fall during several days of wildfires, schools were closed. The "minutes" were never made up. Also, have to question how many of those "minutes" are actually devoted to "instruction" as my daughter's middle school specializes in time-wasting art projects in every subject; i.e. "make a travel brochure for the Forest of the Fairies from A Midsummer Night's Dream"....crap like that. The last few weeks of school, after the standardized tests are taken, those precious "minutes" are devoted to watching movies like Spiderman. And this is a "blue ribbon" school. LOL.

[Bill McBlueState]

4. i hated that type of stuff in school

Now, I'm all for instruction in the arts; that's always the first thing to go when districts lose money, and it shouldn't be.

But I had so many teachers in all subjects who wanted to turn everything into an art project, and I had to wonder if there weren't more efficient ways to educate kids. In my 10th grade English class we formed groups and spent the last two months of the year writing a screenplay and making a movie. It was a lot of fun, but the time we spent was way too much considering the only moderate educational benefits.

[LibDemAlways]

10. Those "art projects" are truly a pain in the ass.

The one I mentioned was only the tip of the 7th grade iceberg. My God, there was "Design a scale model of an amusement park" for math; also for math - a whole unit on NBA basketball stats that required constructing a court; for science, choose an insect and write (and illustrate) a first-person account of its life cycle (graded on creativity and cutesiness); also for science, choose a mammal and make a diorama of its habitat; and the granddaddy of them all - the science fair project - which included a 10 page annotated written report and complicated display board complete with its own header board - with exacting specifications down to the type font! Oh, and I can't forget the social studies "tombstone" for a thinker of the enlightenment and the Renaissance Faire jewelry booth that had to include samples. The last English project was an illustrated diary supposedly written by the protagonist from a novel the class was reading, that had to be authentic down to paper stained with tea and burnt around the edges to make it look old. Even a simple vocabulary list was "define the word and draw a picture or find an appropriate illustration on the internet" and put together a booklet. Geez, I could go and on.

I'm all for kids having to display some creativity and ingenuity, but this piling on is just ridiculous. These assignments are all introduced in school and then sent home for completion, where parents absolutely have to get involved in everything from buying the materials to making sure the kids are following the directions and not leaving anything out. Of course, some parents, "help" more than that. Some of the science projects, in particular, were clearly parent productions. One woman who owns a picture framing shop created a beautiful board for her son using the tools of her trade.

Didn't mean to stray so far from the original subject of "minutes of instruction" but I think a hell of a lot of those minutes are frittered away on crap.

[Bill McBlueState]

12. that's a shame about the science projects

Amercian kids need desperately to learn what it means to do science. (Which is different from learning *about* science.) Science projects are a great way to accomplish that, but science isn't about fancy posterboard and fonts. It's about asking the right questions, collecting good data, and drawing appropriate conclusions from the data you have. And then, writing about your findings in a clear, concise report.

But the average middle school teacher doesn't understand those things as well as he or she should, so he or she grades on things like neatness and, as you say, cutesiness.

[LibDemAlways]

13. My daughter's 7th grade science teacher was

an art teacher who somehow got roped into "teaching" science. For the most part she just showed videos. When it came time to do the science projects, she was all form and no substance. Provided no help at all in choosing a topic which had to be an experiment of some sort. Didn't really care about the particulars of the experiment or the results - only interested in "Does your board have at least 3 photos of your experiment?" My daughter did a water testing experiment, and the teacher could not have cared less about the results, only about the way the little test strips were displayed on the board.

The day the projects were due, the woman who owns the frame shop brought her "son's" board into the school office where we were both volunteering. It looked absolutely professional. My daughter's teacher wandered through at one point, glanced at the board and commented "Awesome!"

You're right. When science (and every other subject) is reduced to an art project with "awesome" graphics, the kids are being cheated. I'd rather the time be spent teaching them how to be critical thinkers, how to not only obtain information, but analyze and draw conclusions. Apparently too much trouble. Gotta go for the "bling."

[pstokely]

14. Here's a sample these art projects disguised as science

http://www.mcms.opusd.k12.ca.us/teachers/labnow/8th_Grade/Homework/homework8.htm
"Write creative story from graph given in class."
They expect people to write a story about a graph!

http://www.mcms.opusd.k12.ca.us/teachers/bloom/classroom_policies.htm
Story's about rocks, pop up books?

[LibDemAlways]

15. "Write a creative story based on a graph"

Notice it's not, "Analyze the results of the graph" or "Discuss how the graph changes over time for each person." No, have to be "cutsie" and completely get away from the reason for going to the trouble of making the graph in the first place.

As for the 6th grade rock "pop up book"...well, that about says it all, doesn't it?

Can you imagine a business run this way? "Today we're going to take a look at our sales figures for July. John is going to tell us a story he made up about a fictional shopper who bought one of our widgets."

OR

Directive from the civil engineering department: All employees are to complete their pop-up books of the infrastructure of the proposed development by noon tomorrow. Remember, creativity counts!

[pstokely]

16. what about the students who can't afford the materials?

Or do not have a camcorder or computer?

[LibDemAlways]

18. In this district, they can afford the materials.

Median income : $140,000.

Average home price: $700K - and a million not unheard of.

Many lawyers, accountants, and movie industry technical types. And believe it or not, people move here for the schools!

I moved here 27 years ago when the place was still considered out in the boonies and cheap. Since then it's become a trendy suburb full of giant SUVs and McMansions. Because the area is now officially built out and the school age population is declining, the district has opened its doors to out of area students, and they clamor to get in. I have to wonder, "What for?"

[pstokely]

19. For the creative projects, rock stories, and pop up books

:sarcasm:

[LibDemAlways]

21. Good one. ...What never ceases to amaze me is that

when I bring up the topic of all these ridiculous projects to other parents, they don't get why anyone would complain. After all, these are "blue ribbon schools."

By the way, if I didn't try to inform my daughter about what's going on in the world, she'd be completely clueless. The school doesn't spend a single one of those minutes discussing current events -- too busy writing an 18 page journal based on a whalewatch - each journal page to include a different "artifact" from the voyage. That was another 6th grade highlight, along with designing and building a miniature house to scale. Of course what was important about the house wasn't the geometry, but rather the "beach house" or "country cottage" exterior. And then there was the study of weather in the form of a San Diego tourist brochure, complete with ads for Sea World and restaurant reviews. I kid you not.

[pstokely]

22. Do they force these kids to watch Channel one?

Wouldn't be surprised if they did?

[LibDemAlways]

24. Thankfully, no.

I wish they'd find a few minutes each day to discuss something going on in the world, though. It's just pathetic how little valuable information these kids are getting. I do my part, but many of my daughter's friends barely see their parents, and spend a whole lot of time watching junk on tv.

[Crazy Dave]

26. What about all the lawn worker's and french fry maker's kids?

Sure you've got wealthy towns but not everybody living in them is wealthy and when it comes to public schools everybody's kids are in the same system. The maids, the janitors, etc. unless they drive in from many miles away or they bus them in on weekdays are also part of the same community and their kids go to the same public schools as do kids of the upper/middle class.
It's a good point I think. I've only heard that some assignments in the upper grades have to be turned in on disk or the homework has to be researched online? Do it or fail? That is pretty tough on someone who makes $18k or less and can't afford internet access or a computer kids. What do you do? After working two jobs run the kids to the library before it closes to do their homework?

[LibDemAlways]

28. The school district has a declining enrollment and is open

to out of district kids on special permits, but the people who apply are generally well to do from neighboring communities. This is a small bedroom community of about 14,000 people 20 minutes north of the San Fernando Valley close to Malibu. There are probably a dozen businesses in the community including a starbucks and another coffee house, two hair salons, and a couple of real estate offices. All other services are in neighboring towns. Least expensive apartment is over $1500 a month, and least expensive home is a 750 sq. foot one-bedroom condo for over $350,000. The school district is small and self-contained.

A couple of years ago the Boys and Girls Club organization tried to get a club started in the community and were promptly turned away by a continegent of "NIMBYs" who were convinced the clubs would attract "lowlife" from out of the area. That's how people think around here.

True story. The next community over has some older apartments that are home to some Hispanic immigrants who work primarily at fast food places and as laborers in the area. When my daughter was in kindergarten, a little girl showed up midyear. She was brought to school and picked up each day by a Hispanic nanny. One day the child's mother explained to me that they had moved into the area the previous summer and had rented a home in the nearby community. When they enrolled the girl in school, they were startled to learn that children of some of the Hispanics in the area attended that school. They immediately began house hunting and bought a place in the "all white" district next door. The woman (a lawyer, for God's sake) was oblivious to the irony that she had hired a Mexican nanny to watch her child, but didn't want her to share classroom space with children of Hispanic heritage.
Unbelievable.

My house is paid for and I have elderly parents nearby, so I'm not going anywhere for the time being. But I am ashamed that this place has become a haven for people who want to escape diversity and isolate themselves from the masses.

[Crazy Dave]

29. Wow...that is bad

Especially the Boys and Girls Club situation.

[pstokely]

20. I remember stuff like pasting techtonic plates in places

What a waste of time cutting out the pieces and pasting them

[LibDemAlways]

23. In 4th grade my daughter had to make a

big topographic map of California out of modeling clay. What a mess that was. I came to help that day and the kids were having a huge clay fight, free for all. Jeez, we live minutes from the Santa Monica Mountains and the beach. Why not take the kids on a local field trip to study the topography firsthand? That would never occur to the geniuses who put together the curriculum.

[pstokely]

25. If the parents aren't around, they can't sign the permission slips

do these kids ever go on field trips or they just read the tourist brochures and create powerpoint presentations about places?

[Bill McBlueState]

27. what a mess.

And lost in all that is any chance to learn how real cartographers make real topo maps. Surely they don't arbitrarily put lumps of clay wherever they think there might be mountains!

[pstokely]

7. The last days sound like what was done at my middle school.

This was 97-99.

[NJ Democrats]

5. 180

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

6. NJ=180

[pstokely]

8. I meant state, not "start"

[TimeChaser]

9. 180 in PA

[TheFriendlyAnarchist]

11. No fucking idea. I just sit there for everyone of them waiting for it to

finish.

[tinfoil tiaras]

17. I dunno

All I know is that my school gets out WAY later than other schools and starts WAY later (most of the public schools start around August 4th or so; we start the 17, which is pretty early for us. We usually start the 20 something...:( )

[ScreamingMeemie]

30. 180 days or 1098 hours of instruction... however way the school

districts want to handle it. :hi:

[grannylib]

31. 180 here in Minnesota