Nurse commits suicide at hospital after crisis center is too busy for her.

[NNadir]

This is a not a news story, just a story I was told by someone who works at the Hospital in question.

A nurse came into a crisis center asking for help. It was the hospital where she worked. They told her they were too busy for her and told her she should come back later.

She went outside, and slashed her wrists on the sidewalk and died right there.

This was in Trenton, New Jersey.

It doesn't get any worse than that.

[Midlodemocrat]

1. That is beyond tragic. My sympathies to her family and friends.

[everythingsxen]

2. Damn

that's really messed up.

[u4ic]

3. How awful

:-(

[bigwillq]

4. That is awful.

That poor woman. :cry:

[Radio_Lady]

5. Sad for anyone to get to that point and not be able to get help.

My condolences to her family.

[NNadir]

6. This reminds me of a tale of from my own life, a long time ago.

I had a house mate who was schizophrenic and was hospitalized. His parents didn't want him to come home to their house after his discharge and insisted that he go to our house.

He came home completely out of his mind. They discharged him when his insurance ran out. The next morning he ate a month's supply of his meds.

He worked at Kaiser Permanente, one of the first HMO's in the world, but when he told me what he had done, I tried to drive him to the local hospital which was much closer to where we lived.

They refused to take him, on the grounds he had Kaiser insurance and he was still conscious. So we got back in my car, and drove the ten miles in LA traffic to Kaiser. They admitted him. He almost died, going into a coma for about a week, but he got better.

Later he jumped off a bridge and finished the job.

[YellowRubberDuckie]

8. It shakes me to the core...

That there are people in this world who feel as if there is no other way out than to die. It's such a permanent solution to a temporary problem. It just makes me sad.
Duckie

[Skittles]

9. for many people depression is NOT a 'temporary problem'

it is lifelong agony, even with treatment

[NNadir]

10. Good point.

I would expect that the majority of suicides are depression.

Probably if you look at the situations of the suicides rationally there are many people whose condition could objectively be viewed as worse but who nonetheless soldier on. Camus covered this so well in the "Myth of Sisyphus."

However I am in no position to judge the psychic nightmare of suicide. I know that when my house mate killed himself, he was fatally ill. He might of as well had cancer.

[Skittles]

12. yes

it is astounding the ignorance concerning suicide.....when people say they don't understand it I tell them COUNT YOURSELF LUCKY. When my dad killed himself, people said to me HOW COULD HE DO THAT TO YOU? I told them, he did not do it to me, he did it to himself. And I had seen his suffering all the years of my life.

[NNadir]

13. Thanks for your sober perspective.

I am very sorry about your experience and I appreciate your understanding.

[YellowRubberDuckie]

14. I didn't see that she had depression....

But even with it being a permanent problem, there are treatments that work.
Duckie

[Skittles]

26. you are wrong about that

there are some people all the drugs and therapy in the world do not help - it is a sad fact

[ncrainbowgrrl]

18. and for others, there's knowledge that treatment could just stop working

Been there, done that, have the sweatshirt.
Actually, I have the sweatpants too.

Thanks for bringing that perspective to the table :hug:

[Skittles]

28. very often the treatment does stop working

depression is a seriously tricky disease that needs constant monitoring

[ikojo]

19. Skittles...you are so right

My brother committed suicide five years ago this month. He suffered from depression all of his life. My mom, not knowing any better I assume, always said he'd grow out of it. He first tried to kill himself in December 1993 and finished the job in July 2001.

Left untreated depression kills just as suredly as does untreated heart disease or untreated diabetes.

It is NOT feeling sorry for yourself. It is agony where you see no hope and there is darkness all around.

The only thing that has helped me is the hope that my brother has found in death the peace he never knew in life.

Rest easy, Jeff. You are missed.

[NNadir]

21. I am very sorry for your loss.

[Skittles]

27. so sorry, ikojo

I know the pain of losing a sibling; my brohter Glenn drank himself to death, which in my mind was a slow form of suicide for him...it is just tragic

[ikojo]

33. I agree Skittles...and I am sorry for your loss

I remember you sharing your loss with us on DU.

So many people, my brother included, self medicate using alcohol. When I asked my brother why he drank he said he felt like everyone else when he was tipsy. He said that when he was drunk he didn't think about the things that bothered him while sober.

Let's hope both of our brothers are at peace.

:grouphug: to all who have lost family members to suicide.

[hyphenate]

42. Fully agree

This latest depression for me is now into its 4th year. And it isn't getting better any day soon. In fact, the physical part of it is progressing to the point where it's an actual effort to do anything at all. That might be the result of another chronic ailment, but combined with the depression, it's all the same result anyhow. I'm not suicidal--at least I don't think I am, but there are days when you sit and wonder why you don't end it all. I feel the cats have kept me alive--without holding their lives in my hands, the temptation to "go" would have overwhelmed me and with no responsibility like taking them into account, it would have been easy to accept a quicker outcome.

I see people who have grieved and considered that as "depression" but it's nowhere close. Depression runs so deep that just managing to make it through a day is a major accomplishment, and managing to do anything other than sleep through it is difficult. I'm thankful at these times for the contact through DU and other boards. It keeps me from thinking I'm the "only one" going through bad times.

[Skittles]

53. yes, keep that contact going

and I agree pets can do wonders - not just the unconditional love, but the responsibility - I think people with crushing depression truly do have to take things one day at a time and really try not to give up. I remember my aunt describing why she drank so much: "I have bad days when I feel bad, and good days when I feel nothing." Such a terrible disease.

[maveric]

7. Why I quit nursing.

Too many hours,very demanding work, have to deal with other's misery and death. The burnout level is astounding.
That is terrible.

[ikojo]

34. Same with teaching....

Some may say that since teachers get summer off they don't have demanding hours. I say that anyone who is asked to spend eight plus hours a day for nine to ten months with the lovely youth of America has a demanding and thankless job.

[TrogL]

48. I gave it up after three years

10% of classroom kids are sociopaths. One in a class is not too bad. Two is barely manageable. Three is impossible. Most class sizes these days exceed 30 students. Do the math.

[AirmensMom]

11. That's just terrible.

:cry: So sad. :cry:

[CaliforniaPeggy]

15. It sure as heck does not get any worse than that.......

This is horrifying.....

A timely intervention could have saved her life.........

And now all of her potential is gone, forever.......

Suicide is so damn final........

[Haole Girl]

25. You've got that right Peggy!

Ironically, so many lives could be saved if people could only get the help they need. Stories like this make me very sad, and a little bit angry too.

[wildhorses]

16. just the other night (tuesday iirc)

on my shift in my ER...dr enters pt's rm and hollers for help...the guy was slicing his wrists and we were so busy that it was not found out until the dr entere the room

depression is rampant...

[arwalden]

17. Hmmm. It Sounds Fishy To Me...

I'm not doubting you personally... I believe that you're telling the story as it was told to you... but something about this story sounds fishy.

I've heard that if someone cuts their wrists as a method of suicide, they need to cut pretty thoroughly and fairly deep. (I suppose her knowledge as a health-care provider would give her the knowledge to make the cuts in the "correct" way.)

Also it takes a very long time to bleed-out just from wrist cuts... not to mention the possibility of clotting. (I suppose that's why some suiciders cut their wrists while soaking in a tub of warm water... and alone so that they won't be discovered for the amount of time it takes to bleed out.)

If she had done this on a sidewalk... she would have been there for quite a while, and there would be a tremendous amount of blood! Wouldn't someone see her laying there and report it to the authorities, or report it to someone in the hospital?

In the story, the ER was extremely busy, and based on that bit of information, it's difficult to for me to imagine that NOT ONE single person would have seen her, or tried to help, or reported what they saw. ("Oh, by the way... there's a woman outside who appears to have cut her wrists, you may want to have someone check on that.")

The details of this story just don't add up in a way that makes much sense to me. Something about it is untrue, or there are other important details that are missing.

[NNadir]

20. I certainly don't know the details. However the story is nonetheless

true.

I know the hospital in question, having visited it to see the employee who related the story to me. I trust her implicitly.

I have no idea how long it takes to bleed to death, although I am aware, from history, that Albert Sidney Johnson, Confederate General, bled to death in about 15 minutes from a wound to his foot that wasn't even all that obvious. http://www.swcivilwar.com/PrestonShilohJohnstonDeath.html

Knowing the place, I'm not even sure that they wiped up the blood all that fast. It may still be there, or the sidewalk may have been hosed down. I'm not going there to see for myself.

Even without any further detail, I'm well convinced that the story is true. Apparently everyone who works there is aware of the case. We also know the personality of at least one of the people in the crisis center, and find it consistent.

As for finding the body laying there, you are placing a cultural sensibility from your place in a a quite different place where I don't think it applies. There are places in the world where nobody does anything about tragedy. Many of them are right here in this country.

[arwalden]

23. It's Still Anecdotal ...

... and the details just don't make much sense. I'm NOT saying that such a story is absolutely impossible... just that it's highly unlikely to have happened as it was described to you. I usually need more evidence than FOAF accounts.

<<I know the hospital in question (...) I trust her implicitly.>>

What's her involvement with this? How does she know about the story? Was she personally involved? Did she see it happen, or did she hear about it after the fact?

<< (...) I am aware, from history, that Albert Sidney Johnson, Confederate General, bled to death in about 15 minutes from a wound to his foot that wasn't even all that obvious. (...) >>

I don't know anything about that, but it's not really enough to convince me that THIS particular suicide story is true.

<< Knowing the place, I'm not even sure that they wiped up the blood all that fast. It may still be there, or the sidewalk may have been hosed down. I'm not going there to see for myself. >>

Okay.

<<Even without any further detail, I'm well convinced that the story is true.>>

Sorry... I just have higher standards

<< Apparently everyone who works there is aware of the case. We also know the personality of at least one of the people in the crisis center, and find it consistent. >>

Anecdotal. I'd prefer to read something from a local news outlet. How long ago did this happen? Did local news cover it at all? That sounds like the type of sensational (and tragic) story that local news would be on top of.

<< As for finding the body laying there, you are placing a cultural sensibility from your place in a a quite different place where I don't think it applies.>>

As I said before, considering the amount of time it takes someone to bleed out from their wrists, I think it's extremely unlikely that not ONE person would report it to someone in charge. --- I'm not talking about ACTIVELY rushing to her side to stop the bleeding... just casually mentioning to someone at the admission desk, "By the way, there's a lady outside sitting in a pool of her own blood, you may want to check it out."

<< There are places in the world where nobody does anything about tragedy. Many of them are right here in this country. >>

Perhaps... but this just has all the earmarks of an urban legend being born.

[NNadir]

24. Look, let's consider that you know nothing at all about this case.

I don't consider myself particularly credulous, and I find your self identified "high standards" quite annoying under the circumstances. In fact, I find your statements rather callous.

You don't know the hospital. You don't know the people. You don't know me. So if I were a stickler for "rules of evidence," and in fact I am, I would say that you need some support for your arbitrary claim that this the birth of an urban myth. You are implying that I, or my source, am or is lying or am or is misconstruing events. Your justification for this is some vague assertions about the rates of bleeding to death, and some suppositions about the physical location of the hospital. In fact, you offer no evidence that you are familiar with the geometry of the hospital though. Neither have you authored a study of the frequency of Trenton foot traffic. Unless of course, you are about to report that you have authored a medical study of how quickly people can bleed to death, and the sociology of public response to particular extreme emergencies, you are basing your objections on supposition. You are basing your entire case on a statement that the events are improbable. Indeed they are. Generally one does not report probable, ordinary events. One discusses unusual events. This is why lottery winners are always news items.

This is a tragic situation. Maybe you think that tragic circumstances need to reported only in courtroom criteria exist and can only be believed if reported by direct witnesses under courtroom rules of evidence. By this criteria about 90% of what is discussed on DU about the war, for instance, would fail this standard, since very few of us here are actually in Iraq or are taking direct reports from those who are there. Still, I feel I, and other DUers, have a decent sense of what is going on in Iraq. I have a very decent - or in this case indecent - sense about what is going on in that hospital.

I also have a slight problem with the notion that only those events that have an internet link associated with them are true and that if an event has not occurred in the paper it is not true. There are many, many, many disturbing events that are never reported in the media. I think most of us here who are liberals are intimately acquainted with that fact. I do not know, but would expect, that many suicides are not reported in the papers, at least for what they are. If this nurse were my mother, I would certainly be ambivalent about press involvement and don't know that I would seek it out. My ex-housemate's suicide was not reported for instance, probably out of consideration for his family, who, as it happened were fairly prominent.

You take it or you leave it. I am reporting something that troubles me deeply and something about which I have information. If you prefer to believe that I am either liar or a credulous fool, that is none of my concern and in no way impacts how I feel about the events. If you would like to examine the body of my more than 9000 posts here to find other instances where I have invented similar tales, please feel free to point them up.

Good day.

[arwalden]

29. Let's also consider that you don't know much about this case either...

... or if you do, then you're not sharing that information with us.

<< I don't consider myself particularly credulous,>>

Okay. Are you also particularly infallible?


<< and I find your self identified "high standards" quite annoying under the circumstances.>>

Strange. Why would anyone find such a thing to be "quite annoying"?? :shrug:

I think what you actually find to be "quite annoying" is my trying to satisfy my high standards by asking difficult questions that you don't have the answers for.


<< In fact, I find your statements rather callous.>>

Callous? Really? -- How?

To whom am I being callous? What's "callous" about pointing out that certain "facts" don't appear to be consistent with reality? How does that make me (or my statements) callous?


<< You don't know the hospital. You don't know the people. >>

Well... that's why I'm wanting more information... something from credible sources OTHER than "friend-of-a-friend" types of anecdotal stories. None of my questions are unreasonable.


<< You don't know me. >>

That's true, but I'm not sure what that has do do with anything.

I've been very careful to make clear that I was not judging you or doubting you personally. I don't think you're intentionally trying to deceive. I do think that the story as it was relayed to you (and as you are re-telling it) doesn't seem to be very plausible.


<< So if I were a stickler for "rules of evidence," and in fact I am,>>

I'm happy to read that you're a "stickler" for evidence. Since such thing are so important to you, do you have any other information about this story that you can share?


<< I would say that you need some support for your arbitrary claim that this the birth of an urban myth.>>

Soooo... are you asking me to prove that something is FALSE? How exactly does someone prove a negative?

No, I'm not being "arbitrary" when I suggested that we seem to be witnessing the birth of an urban legend. I made that statement based on the LACK of evidence, and the inconsistencies, and the holes in the story.

I can't prove that the story is false, but I *can* point out why it doesn't ring true. If the storyteller has additional information to support their claims, then it's their responsibility to provide it.


<< You are implying that I, or my source, am or is lying or am or is misconstruing events. >>

I've done no such thing. I've said that the "facts" and events as they are being told in the story aren't very convincing. Something is missing. Something has been exaggerated.

Did your "source" actually witness the events that she relayed to you, or was she telling you a story that was told to her? (I'm thinking that it's probably the latter, because if SHE actually witnessed the events in the story, then why didn't SHE do something... call for help... rush to aid, etc.)


<< Your justification for this is some vague assertions about the rates of bleeding to death, and some suppositions about the physical location of the hospital. >>

That's not entirely true. I've simply pointed out that the story has holes in it. There are inconsistencies and a lack of details that leave many unanswered questions.


<< In fact, you offer no evidence that you are familiar with the geometry of the hospital though. >>

Actually, it's not up to me to provide any evidence. I'm just letting you know that, in my mind, the story you relayed is highly suspect. On the face of it, the story lacks evidence (just as urban legends do).

The details are sketchy, the scenario is improbable, it has an ironic twist with tragic results, and it makes a sad commentary on the human condition. Again... all the earmarks of an urban legend.

Perhaps it's based on real events. Perhaps it's exaggerated to make it's point... but as it stands, it's not credible.


<< Neither have you authored a study of the frequency of Trenton foot traffic. Unless of course, you are about to report that you have authored a medical study of how quickly people can bleed to death, and the sociology of public response to particular extreme emergencies, you are basing your objections on supposition.>>

So, you're making the argument that because something hasn't been proven false, that it must be true?? :shrug: That does nothing to prove anything about the story.

The fact that someone has not written a thesis on any of the above subjects does not disqualify them from asking questions. Nor does it disqualify them from pointing to the inconsistencies in the story.


<< You are basing your entire case on a statement that the events are improbable. Indeed they are. >>

That's not true. First of all, I'm not making a "case"... as I said before it's not up to me to DIS-prove anything.

What I can do is point out where and why there are inconsistencies, and why I find the details of the story to be questionable. I've asked for more evidence and rather than do so, you choose to berate me for being incredulous.

When did this event take place?
Last week? Today? Last month?
Was your friend an eyewitness?
If not, WHO was the eyewitness?
Did this happen in the middle of the night? During the day?
How long did the woman lay there in her own blood?
Was it on a well-traveled sidewalk? An isolated alley?


<< Generally one does not report probable, ordinary events. One discusses unusual events. This is why lottery winners are always news items. >>

That's very true! Which brings me back to something I asked earlier: Why wasn't this tragic event covered by local news? The circumstances of this suicide make for a VERY UNUSUAL event!

Are there any links that would confirm and verify the events as you've told them? If so, I'd be interested in reading them.

If not, I wonder why not? As you said... this was certainly an unusual event that would be newsworthy.


<<This is a tragic situation. Maybe you think that tragic circumstances need to reported only in courtroom criteria exist and can only be believed if reported by direct witnesses under courtroom rules of evidence. >>

No, that's not completely true... *however*... SOME evidence would be nice.

Unfortunately we have NO evidence... ZERO, NADA, ZILCH! --- Surely you don't fault me for wanting to see some little shred of something that would corroborate and confirm that the story actually happened as you've told it.


<<By this criteria about 90% of what is discussed on DU about the war, for instance, would fail this standard, since very few of us here are actually in Iraq or are taking direct reports from those who are there.>>

That's a very weak strawman argument. It's irrelevant and has nothing to do with this anecdote you've told.

But I can point out that most of the sources for the stories coming out of Iraq are reliable and most can be independently confirmed through multiple sources. It's not very often that we have to rely on 3rd hand friend-of-a-friend" accounts. (And when we do, the reporter usually identifies the type of source and acknowledges that it's unverified... or we can choose to trust the details are factual based on the reputation of the reporter.)


<< Still, I feel I, and other DUers, have a decent sense of what is going on in Iraq. >>

That's nice. Irrelevant, but nice.


<< I have a very decent - or in this case indecent - sense about what is going on in that hospital.>>

Sorry, your senses aren't good enough for me. Nothing personal.


<< I also have a slight problem with the notion that only those events that have an internet link associated with them are true and that if an event has not occurred in the paper it is not true. >>

Strawman. Nobody has asserted such a thing.

What I have said (and you yourself have also suggested) is that an event like this is indeed newsworthy. Therefore, it's natural to wonder WHY such a thing was not covered by any local news organization.

The absence of such coverage does NOT mean that the story is false... HOWEVER, the absence of such coverage DOES add even more doubt to all the other questions that are piling up.


<<There are many, many, many disturbing events that are never reported in the media. I think most of us here who are liberals are intimately acquainted with that fact. >>

If we accept your assertion that "many disturbing events that are never reported in the media," are we to conclude that because THIS event did not appear in the media, that it must therefore be true? That's a fallacious argument.


<< I do not know, but would expect, that many suicides are not reported in the papers, at least for what they are.>>

Perhaps not... but as you said... this particular suicide was highly unusual.

A *nurse* fails to receive treatment at a *busy* crisis center at the hospital where she actually WORKED, and then in response she kills herself on the sidewalk outside by slitting her wrists... and NOBODY sees her, nobody recognizes her, nobody helps, nobody reports it for the entire length of time it takes her to bleed out... from her WRISTS?

True, not all suicides are newsworthy... but the events and circumstances of this story certainly are dramatic enough and ironic enough to warrant at least a paragraph or two.

If it's true, I can't imagine that ANY newspaper would walk away from the sensational headlines that this story could generate. It's certainly a commentary on how overburdened and overworked our health-care system is... do you HONESTLY think that a newspaper or TV station is going to walk away from a story like that??


<< If this nurse were my mother, I would certainly be ambivalent about press involvement and don't know that I would seek it out. >>

If this story were true, I doubt there would be anything that the family members could do to prevent it from being reported. They may choose NOT to provide additional information (or interviews) to the press... but the tragic IRONY of this story would generate headlines nevertheless.


<< My ex-housemate's suicide was not reported for instance, probably out of consideration for his family, who, as it happened were fairly prominent. >>

Irrelevant. (Yes, yes... I now fully expect that you'll now scold me for being so "callous" by reminding me that your housemate's suicide wasn't irrelevant to the people involved, right? :eyes: However... with regard to THIS story, and THIS discussion, you are making an irrelevant argument that does nothing to support your contention that this story about the nurse is factual.)


<< You take it or you leave it. I am reporting something that troubles me deeply and something about which I have information.>>

By your own accounts, you have very limited information which you accept at face value.


<< If you prefer to believe that I am either liar or a credulous fool, that is none of my concern and in no way impacts how I feel about the events. >>

I've said no such thing about you.


<< If you would like to examine the body of my more than 9000 posts here to find other instances where I have invented similar tales, please feel free to point them up. >>

Also irrelevant. I've made no such accusation about you. I've not accused you of "inventing" anything. I think it's fair to point out that the approach you're taking does absolutely NOTHING to support the validity or truthfulness of THIS particular story.


<< Good day. >>

:eyes:



edit: clarity, typo

[CanuckAmok]

30. I can confirm this....

The nurse was the sister-in-law of my cousin Nancy, who used to work for TWA.

[arwalden]

31. Oh You... I Find Your Statement Rather Callous.

<< The nurse was the sister-in-law of my cousin Nancy, who used to work for TWA.>>

Well that certainly satisfies my concerns! :hi:

Actually... If you cared anything at all about what this poor woman went through then you'd just accept the story at face value and not question it or point out its flaws. How dare you?!

[CanuckAmok]

32. Seriously...

her name was Bonnie, or Brenda, or Barb, os something like that.

[arwalden]

37. I Wonder If ANYONE Found A Link To This Story Yet...

... it's so unusual and tragic and IRONIC that surely some news organization SOMEWHERE must have picked up on it by now.

I've been searching the internets, but so far I can't locate anything.

[Deja Q]

38. I'll let you know.

And then will you respond to it? :7

[arwalden]

54. Certainly! If Such A Thing Exists, I'll Respond...

<< I'll let you know. And then will you respond to it? >>

Your choice of words seems to imply that you have doubts as to whether or not I'd respond. Do you have any serious doubts? Why wouldn't it respond? :shrug:

Just so you know... it might be my "darker side" that responds, however. (I guess that's a chance I'll have to take.)

[Name removed]

45. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

46. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

51. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[RoyGBiv]

52. Across and down ...

No clotting will save you. You'll be dead in minutes.

A nurse would know this.

[Deja Q]

36. I must agree. Yet I cannot.

Only because wrist-slicing is a SLOW and PAINFUL method of suicide. You are correct that one needs to slice in pretty deep... and it makes a big mess too.

OTOH, I have personally observed events of abuse in well populated places (malls, grocery stores) and nobody lifts a fuckin' finger to help when one bastard starts being cruel, abusive, or violent toward another. They just look with interest, as if it was a goddamn TV show. That or do a 180 degree turn and walk away.

So I don't know if this scenario is valid or not. It could point either way, but our society is sick enough.

Indeed, what would you do if you saw me being beaten up? :think: Exactly. You'd watch or walk. Just like how anyone else would.

[arwalden]

39. Is That A Fair Or Accurate Comparison?

I think it's far more likely that someone would offer aid (of some sort) to a person who was crumpled up and laying in a pool of their own blood... and it's much more UNLIKELY that someone would be just as willing to intervene (or risk bodily harm) by trying to break up a fight.

Based on the unwillingness of people to put themselves in harm's way when it comes to violent situations, I don't think you can logically come to the conclusion that people are equally unwilling to help someone who is in danger of dying because of their own self-inflicted wounds.

(Not bad for someone with a "dark side", eh? :eyes:)

[Deja Q]

40. Self-inflicted?

What are you talking about?

If you have a problem with me, grow up and PM me and let's sort this out once and for all.

[GirlinContempt]

41. Dude

all it looks like he's saying is, just because someone wont step in and break up a fight doesn't mean a person wont step in and help someone who's alone and dying, because there is no fear of also being beaten or what have you. The self inflicted wounds seems to refer to the fact that, well, this is a story about suicide, not someone being held down and cut open.

[Deja Q]

43. I re-read our exchange and you and he are right...

Forgive me, and an apology to Arwalden as well. I should have kept my focus on the story instead of thinking of a personal, recent situation that clouded my judgment.

[arwalden]

44. Yes... You Are Correct. -- Thank You.

:eyes:


:hi: :loveya:

[northzax]

47. let alone someone bleeding on the sidewalk

in front of a hospital. Every hospital I've ever been to, especially urban ones, are fairly well guarded places, someone would notice someone lying on the sidewalk outside the front door bleeding.

[ScreamingMeemie]

50. MrG just said the same thing.

:hi:

Although, here in Detroit, at Detroit Receiving Hospital and Saratoga, people have been known to bleed to death on the sidewalk. :hug: Good to see you!

[jmm]

22. On the first of the month a friend of mine

had a seizure in her bank parking lot while leaving with the money to pay her rent. When she came to nobody had helped her...well...except for the person or people that helped themselves to her wallet. This was in broad day light close to numerous businesses in a busy intersection. Somebody had to have seen something.

It would be nice to think someone who sees a stranger in crisis on the side walk or in a parking lot would help but too damn often they don't.

[In_The_Wind]

35. How can a crisis center turn away anyone who is in need of help?

Especially one of their own.
This is a sad state of affairs, indeed!

[northzax]

49. so which hospital is this?

I'm in Trenton quite a bit, and I never want to visit that one, if I need help. seems like you have an obligation to divulge that. surely, if nothing else, the ensuing lawsuit would be public record, right?

[arwalden]

55. Nobody Knows...

... isn't that odd?