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Skinner ADMIN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 12:50 PM
Original message
Advertising on DU: An Experiment
About a week and a half ago, we got a call out-of-the-blue from Google. I usually blow-off unsolicited sales calls, but seeing as this one was from one of the must successful Internet companies on the planet, I was curious to find out why in the heck they were calling me.

It turns out that they were calling to talk to us about the Google AdSense program. We had tried the program briefly back in 2003 and discontinued using it because the ads were very poorly targeted, and the disruption to the site wasn't worth the paltry amount of money the ads were making for us. The Google sales rep on the phone assured us that the program has improved dramatically since we tried it three years ago, and she encouraged us to give it a try again. She claimed that we can probably get a significantly higher return on the ads than we did three years ago.

The sales rep quoted a cost-per-thousand impressions (CPM) that was surprisingly high. I must admit I am skeptical -- rates for Web advertising are notoriously low, and for discussion forum-based sites like ours they are usually well below average (somewhere in the neighborhood of one-tenth of the normal return for Web advertising). Still, the sales rep was sufficiently optimistic about our prospects that we feel it would be irresponsible if we did not at least try running the ads.

To give you some idea of what we're talking about here: If Google's best-case estimates turn out to be true, then we would never have to do another fundraiser on Democratic Underground. But if their low-end estimates turn out to be true, the ads would barely cover the rent on our office, and probably would not be worth the added annoyance to our visitors.

The only way for us to know for sure what kind of return we can get is to give it a try.

Over the next few weeks, we want to test out a number of different ad placements all over the Democratic Underground website to see what (if anything) works and what does not. It is very likely that the ads might seem annoying at first to some of you -- as is the case with any change we do around here -- and so we want to thank you in advance for your patience. I hope you understand that our intent is not to annoy. Our hope is that by experimentation we can find a happy medium where we can get a decent return for the ads, without overly antagonizing all of you, our visitors. Please understand that if we want this to work, the advertisements will have to be placed in fairly prominent areas of our site where people will see them; while you might prefer it if we clustered all the ads at the bottom of our pages, it would be pretty pointless from a fundraising perspective.

The DU Admins are well aware that people don't like seeing ads when they go to a website, and I'm sure many of you are wondering why we are doing this at all. Our current system has worked pretty well so far, and the last thing on earth we want to do is to annoy the people who have been donating for the last five and a half years years to keep this website online. We are deeply grateful for their help.

But it is a fact that this community exists because of the generosity of a small minority of visitors to the site. We get hundreds of thousands of unique visitors each month, but at any given time only a thousand people are actually contributing to keeping the site online. And it is worth noting that this is the only donor-funded organization I can think of that depends entirely on small donations. Since DU's launch in January 2001, we have received only two donations of a thousand dollars or more. We rarely receive a donation of more than one hundred dollars, and our average donation is about twenty dollars.

Now, we could try to squeeze all of you harder, but we really aren't comfortable doing that. Advertisements allow all of our visitors to help pay the bills. And if the ads are really successful, we might not need to raise quite as much money from voluntary donations -- and you all could donate your money to other worthy causes, like Democratic candidates or progressive non-profits.

But as I said, at this point we do not know if running ads will even make much of a difference to our bottom line. We appreciate your patience and understanding as we try these ads to find out if they will work for our community. Thank you so much.

Skinner, EarlG, Elad
DU Administrators
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progmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 12:57 PM
Response to Original message
1. sounds good, chief
I hope it's successful beyond your wildest expectations.
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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 01:00 PM
Response to Original message
2. Looking to sell out now, hmmmm?
:evilgrin:

No, seriously, give it a try. What's the worse that could happen, the ads suck and the program isn't well concieved and it all goes away in a few months. Worth the risk, especially if it works well and there are no more cash worries:shrug:
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terrya Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 01:01 PM
Response to Original message
3. Sounds great, Skinner.
Thank you for letting us know.
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Robb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 01:02 PM
Response to Original message
4. Oooh! Squeeze ME harder!
:rofl:

Sounds like a thoughtful approach, as ever. We're behind ya, although lord help you if their targeting algorithm has anything to do with picking keywords off Lounge posts. :D
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Skinner ADMIN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 01:05 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. As a matter of fact, I think it will.
But I think the Lounge-targeted ads will only show up in the Lounge. It should make for some pretty funny advertising.
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ghostsofgiants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 01:20 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. The potential humour in that should be worth the hassle...
Even if it doesn't pay big.
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underpants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 01:20 PM
Response to Reply #6
11. SHE-VIXEN ROBOTS!!!!
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LSK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 01:04 PM
Response to Original message
5. will you have any influence on what kinda ads show up?
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Skinner ADMIN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 01:06 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. A little bit.
We can block particular ads after the fact.
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catmandu57 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 01:16 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. Good, I'd hate to open DU
and have some rightwing shill trying to sell me something.
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Oeditpus Rex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 01:08 PM
Response to Original message
8. Damn, dude
If only newspapers 'n' stuff had this kind of integrity — to actually tell subscribers, "We're gonna change something, and you might not like it, but..."

Well played, sir. :thumbsup:
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madinmaryland Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 01:21 PM
Response to Original message
12. Do you have control over the content of the ads, and who
advertises? I would hate to see Halliburton and Wal-mart advertising here.

:scared:
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tjwmason Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 01:24 PM
Response to Original message
13. Sounds like it's worth a try.
I'm pretty used to filtering out ad which appear on pages, so if people are willing to pay for the up-keep of this place through them I've definitely got no objection.
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Floogeldy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 01:26 PM
Response to Original message
14. Will DU get paid by the click?
I will gladly click, click, click. :)

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DS1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 01:29 PM
Response to Original message
15. Go for it!
:thumbsup:

Hell, they signed up with Matcomnews! see sig
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Call Me Wesley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 01:34 PM
Response to Original message
16. Give it a try.
Just make sure they're catching up the right keywords, or there will be a lot of 'free forums', etc. ads.
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Floogeldy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 01:35 PM
Response to Original message
17. Only two things annoy me about ads.
1. For example, ones across the top of the screen that are bright lime green colored and flashing real fast. Dizzy!

2. Sometimes it seems as if a web page won't load until the ad loads first, and if the ad server is messed up the page loads very slowly or doesn't load at all.

Just some thoughts. :)

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Dolomite Donating Member (689 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 02:38 PM
Response to Original message
18. They're really more of a porn biz, they'll be cool with a "Guns" forum?
Since 2003, Google has refused to advertise "gun" sites.

GUNS: Going by the numbers it is one of the most heavily "posted to" topic forums on all of DU.

But porn - oh advertising porn is OK since 99% of it out there on the internet is protected by the First Amendment, right?

But "Guns" - jeez - I'd hate to see you all get in bed with Google (pardon the pun) and then have them yank the rug out from ya over something as silly as some DU'ers belief in the Second Amendment.
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bridgit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 03:04 PM
Response to Original message
19. sure why not, google will pass the hit stats to 3rd, 4th, 5th etc...
parties via a latent script of some kind anyhow...if they haven't already, so what's left to lose :shrug:
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SOteric Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 03:45 PM
Response to Original message
20. But, but, but... what will be come of Grovelbot?
:cry:
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DS1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 04:06 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. You mean Gravelbot?
That's right, he's gonna be bustin rocks along side the rest of the robots without purpose
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rug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 04:56 PM
Response to Original message
22. I'm changing my name to a 9 digit zip code.
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In_The_Wind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 05:34 PM
Response to Original message
23. I'm not going to complain about something that's good for DU!

:yourock:
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Major Hogwash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 05:49 PM
Response to Original message
24. Well, I've clicked on some of those ads and actually bought stuff, so..
. . . it's not that bad of an idea. I bought some camping equipment and fishing stuff through Google ads that were at the top or bottom of a forum a couple of times.

This would work pretty good in Topic forums, I would think, because the conversation drives what determines the ads that Google displays at that subforum at that time.
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NMMNG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-25-06 01:32 AM
Response to Original message
25. I'm game
Anything that benefits DU is fine with me. :thumbsup:
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EarlG ADMIN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-25-06 11:48 AM
Response to Original message
26. We've started Stage One - more information here
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