What makes "country music" country music?

[johnnie]

I was reading some of the threads about the Dixie Chicks and noticed a lot of people expressing how much they hate country music and it got me to wondering what in people's opinions make certain music "country music".

I am guessing the typical answers will be the "twang" in their voices, or that they use banjos, mandolins and steel guitars, but to me that doesn't say it is country music. Neil Young has used all that and he is typically considered a "rock" musician.

Or maybe it is where the musicians are from that dictates to some people what country music is? Of course that could also be argued against because there are a multitude of people who are from everywhere that play all types of music.

I will have to say that there are people putting out records in the "country music" circles that I don't particularly like, but there are also people putting out music in a hell of a lot more formats that I don't like either. I think if a song is good then a song is good and I don't care what radio station they play it on or what certain genre of pop charts it resides in.

Remember Primus' "Wynona's Big Brown Beaver"? Was that country?..lol

So what ya"ll think? What, in your opinion makes music "country" or not?

[XNASA]

1. Major II chords.

And throw in a few 7ths for good measure.

[johnnie]

2. And a "Yee haw"

I guess you have the best answer so far..lol.

[WritingIsMyReligion]

33. rAmen.

:rofl:

[NashVegas]

3. "White Man's Blues"

Sums it up well. In early country music, blues collided with Appalaccia.

[johnnie]

8. It's hard for me to figure out what was the first country music

In my opinion it was celtic music that was brought to America and grew from there. There is a really good documentary called "American Roots Music". I think I must have watched it 25 times already. If you don't have it, it is worth buying.
http://www.pbs.org/americanrootsmusic/

[Squeech]

4. I say

twang is a big part of it, and the accent and diction of the singer. Strong backbeat.

Very limited harmonic vocabulary, usually limited to a I-IV-V chord change. Maybe with an added VI chord or flat VII. Despite which, performance standards (especially on the lead instruments) are commonly much better in country than in rock. (John Sebastian was right about "Nashville Cats.")

Used to be that instrumentation was a dead giveaway: pedal steel and/or fiddle. But now we get to hear "country" productions that sound just like arena-rock productions except for the twang and the backbeat. (Mandolin is not country at this point, it's bluegrass or old-timey. Or Celtic!)

That's my take on it anyway. Your mileage may vary. I note that I'm even less inclined now than ever to split hairs about precise differences between genres, since I ran across a quote from science fiction writer Samuel Delany: "Edge cases aren't interesting."

[johnnie]

10. Good answer

I am with you on the "splitting hairs" thing. I think maybe it is something that you learn along the way though and not something that is different in the world.

[derby378]

5. Ever hear Brian McNeill?

His sound is most definitely country, but he hails from Scotland. No twang, no steel guitars, etc. I recommend checking out Back of the North Wind if you can find it.

[johnnie]

11. Actually I have heard the name

Never listened to him though, I will give him a listen. Thanks. As I said above, I think that country music got more of its root from Celtic music, so Brian McNeill being from that part of the country is no surprise to me.

[HuskerDU]

6. When Neil Young plays with the International Harvesters

who play the typical coutry instruments you mentioned above (plus the fiddle) he is certainly playing country music. Then he can play the same song with another group and it is straight up rock.

I think that the twang in the vocals and instruments is the key. Take that away and you could be in 'Americana' or 'folkie' territory. Keep the twang and supe up the tempo and you have bluegrass.

[El Fuego]

7. Corporate marketing decisions?

Also corporate radio decisions about about what gets airplay on the country stations.

[johnnie]

14. Well, you are right about that one

And I think many people follow their decisions.

[Squeech]

15. Marketing

The interplay between that and popularity is interesting, and not wholly predictable.

There have been experiments that go both ways. There's a story about some radio station in LA that played one specific Mozart piece during drive time every day for a month, and local record stores did a land-office business in Mozart for a while thereafter. But there's this other story about some lame tune Dick Clark played on American Bandstand every week for one season, just to show that he didn't have the infallible star-making power attributed to him. Quality has something to do with it: Clark picked a tune he knew was a stiff (the artist in question called him on it), whereas Mozart is clearly one of the immortals.

Since at least Woodstock, the marketing of music has had at least as much to do with convincing your audience that the song somehow enhances the listener's self-image as with how the song sounds. Fans of country music buy into a myth of the American spirit of independence, but we know it to be a myth when we observe how genuine independents fare in that market (e.g. Johnny Cash's last few records). It remains to be seen how the Dixie Chicks are going to fare with "Not Ready to Make Nice," which is at least as big a challenge to that myth-- although it might be on a level with Loretta Lynn singing "The Pill" or "You Ain't Woman Enough to Take My Man," which spoke directly to an otherwise underserved audience, rednecks' wives.

Oh, we live in interesting times!

[realisticphish]

9. ah, but Wynona's Big Brown Beaver

didn't have steel guitar. To be honest, that alone is what makes me hate country music. I can't fucking STAND steel guitar.

[johnnie]

12. I love steel guitar

I have always wanted to play one, but they are a bit expensive for me to afford. They get used quite often in "pop" music too, especially back in the early 70s or so.

[realisticphish]

13. it just grates on me

like some people with bagpipes (which i happen to love)

[Bridget Burke]

22. Hawaiian artists toured the USA in the 20's.

They played "slack-key" guitar--perhaps originally from the Philippines? Jimmie Rodgers befriended some of them--long before Ry Cooder was born.

Afterwards, slide guitar began in Blues & Country. The electrified Lap Steel guitars led to Pedal Steel.

(Yes, I'm an armchair ethnomusicologist.)

Hmmmm.... has any band used pedal steel & bagpipes?

[B3Nut]

16. Jerry Garcia

could play a mean pedal steel...his lines on "Teach Your Children Well" by CSN&Y are definitive steel parts.

Todd in Beerbratistan

[Beware the Beast Man]

17. A few less chromosomes.

:evilgrin:

I kid, I kid!

[johnnie]

20. .

:spray:

[leftofthedial]

18. There is a tiny office next to the broom closet at Acuff-Rose in Nashville

In that office, barely large enough for a desk, a chair and a filing cabinet, sits a wizened, ancient man wearign a white cowboy hat.

If he says it's "country," it's country.

Sometimes he goes ten or twelve years at a stretch without uttering a sound.

[Blue_Roses]

19. Sad stories and "twang"

[Bridget Burke]

21. Music of the British Isles meets Music from Africa!

Settlers from Ireland & Scotland brought fiddle tunes & ancient songs to the American South. There, they heard the music of African slaves & freedmen. African-American string bands influenced the White string bands--thus, you get Old Timey music. Bill Monroe picked up the tempo; he had blues influences, along with the "ancient tones" he learned from his Uncle Pen. A P Carter collected old tunes (some folk & some forgotten parlor songs) for his "Family" to play; an African-American helped him & influenced Mother Maybelle's guitar style--which went on to influence most Folk/Country guitarists. Jimmie Rodgers sang straight out Blues--& recorded with Louis Armstrong.

At some point, "Hillbilly Music" was renamed "Country & Western." Blues & Jazz influenced Western Swing, which begat Honky Tonk & the Bakersfield Sound. My theory: "Nashville" represents the formal Old South & frowns on dancing--one reason that the mavericks from the poor side of town & such outlandish places as Texas have trouble with The Music Industry. Lots of good Country Music arose despite all that Nashville could do.

www.birthplaceofcountrymusic.org/index.cgi?cat=10043

Some Country influenced the Folk revival & many of us remember Country Rock. Since Rock & Roll began as the bastard child of the Blues & Honky Tonk, this was no surprise. Gram Parsons gets lot of credit for blending Rock & Country. But "Dark End of The Street" & "Do Right Woman" are Soul tunes--covered by the Burritos on their first album. (And Gram Parsons wasn't the first or the only to make the combination.)

[Metta]

23. Mama, trucks, trains, prison, dogs, beer, have, don't have.

Just like the song says.

[kwassa]

24. Play it backwards, get your dog back, truck back, and your girl back

[ghostsofgiants]

27. Be careful with that joke...

It's an antique! :P

[Taverner]

25. An artist listing their style as "country'

Honestly - do you see much difference between Garth Brooks and the Eagles?

Dixie Chicks and Stevie Nicks?

Not to slam the Chicks but if their stuff came out mid-70's they'd be Rock.

Even Marshall Tucker Band was considered Rock in the 70's...

[BlueJazz]

26. I can tell the Posters of this thread, pretty well know their "Stuff"...

..as far as Chords and such.
You know..It's not so much what country music is but how/what some Musicians play it.
Maybe it's the fact that a lot of country players, simply put, Don't know how to play...
I mean..even hearing a simple Blues Progression can be a wonderful thing if it's played by
someone that can "Season" the chord structure (Like Joe Sample) or even a hick song played by
a steel guitar player that doesn't use the same old worn-out licks that 99 percent of
steel players use.
I've heard some players back-up "Your Cheatin' Heart" that almost send chills up my spine.

Aww..Maybe ..I'm not being very clear about what I'm saying but I think the People in this thread
know what I'm talking about.

For Me..If I hear a Country tune and can actually learn (at least some little cool lick) from it...
..then it ceases to be what I call "Hick Country Pablum Music" :)

[johnnie]

28. I kind of wanted to see what people's opinions were

To me saying "I hate country music" is like saying "I hate rock music". Both labels are extremely broad in my opinion. For example, if you take a "common" music listener that isn't that knowledgeable about music and had them listen to The Trans-Siberian Orchestra doing Beethoven, they would probably say it is rock music because of the sound. I think that is how it is with a lot of different types of music.

[JohnKleeb]

29. Can't define it honestly but

I have to say it's an aquaired taste. I used to dislike it but I like it a lot now.

[regularguy]

30. Telecasters. Lot's of 'em.

And lot's of major chords. Like porn, I know it when I see (hear) it.

[wildhorses]

31. if this ain't country...

THE OLD MAN WAS COVERED WITH TATTOOS AND SCARS
HE GOT SOME IN PRISON AND OTHERS IN BARS
THE REST HE GOT WORKIN' ON OLD JUNK CARS
IN THE DAYTIME
THEY LOOKED LIKE TOMBSTONES IN OUR YARD
AND I NEVER SEEN HIM WHEN HE WASN'T TIRED
AND MEAN
HE SOLD USED PARTS TO MAKE ENDS MEET
COVERED WITH GREASE FROM HIS HEAD TO HIS FEET
CUSSIN' THE SWEAT AND THE TEXAS HEAT
AND MOSQUITERS
AND THE NEIGHBORS SAID WE LIVED LIKE HICKS
BUT THEY BRUNG THEIR CARS FOR PA TO FIX
ANYHOW
HE WAS VETERAN-PROUD, TRIED AND TRUE
HE'D FOUGHT TILL HIS HEART WAS BLACK AND BLUE
DIDN'T KNOW HOW HE'D MADE IT THROUGH
THE HARD TIMES
HE BOUGHT OUR HOUSE ON THE G.I. BILL
BUT IT WASN'T WORTH ALL HE HAD TO KILL
TO GIT IT
HE DRANK PEARL IN A CAN AND JACK DANIELS BLACK
CHEWED TOBACCO FROM A MAIL POUCH SACK
HAD AN OLD DOG THAT WAS TRAINED TO ATTACK
SOMETIMES
HE'D GET DRUNK AND MEAN AS A RATTLESNAKE
AND THERE WASN'T TOO MUCH THAT HE WOULD TAKE
FROM A STRANGER

THERE WERE THIRTEEN KIDS AND A BUNCH OF DOGS
A HOUSE FULL OF CHICKENS AND A YARD FULL OF HOGS
I SPENT THE SUMMERTIME CUTTIN' UP LOGS FOR THE WINTER
TRYIN' LIKE THE DEVIL TO FIND THE LORD
WORKIN' LIKE A NIGGER FOR MY ROOM AND BOARD
COAL-BURIN' STOVE, NO NATURAL GAS
IF THAT AIN'T COUNTRY, I'LL KISS YOUR ASS
IF THAT AIN'T COUNTRY, IT'LL HAIRLIP THE POPE
IF THAT AIN'T COUNTRY, IT'S A DAMN GOOD JOKE
I'VE SEEN THE GRAND OLE OPRY, AND I'VE MET JOHNNY CASH
IF THAT AIN'T COUNTRY, I'LL KISS YOUR ASS

RECITATION:
MAMA SELLS EGGS AT A GROCERY STORE
MY OLDEST SISTER IS A FIRST-RATE WHORE
DAD SAYS SHE CAN'T COME HOME ANYMORE
AND HE MEANS IT
MA JUST SITS AND KEEPS HER SILENCE
SISTER, SHE LEFT 'CAUSE DAD GOT VIOLENT
AND HE KNOWS IT
MAMA SHE'S OLD FAR BEYOND HER TIME
FROM CHOPPING TOBACCO AND I'VE SEEN HER CRYIN'
WHEN BLOOD STARTED FLOWIN' FROM HER CALLOUSED HAND
AND IT HURT ME
SHE'D JUST KEEP WORKIN' TRYIN' TO HELP THE OLD MAN
TO THE END OF ONE ROW AND BACK AGAIN
LIKE ALWAYS
SHE'S BEEN THROUGH HELL SINCE JUNIOR WENT TO JAIL
WHEN THE LIGHTS GO OUT SHE AIN'T NEVER FAILED
TO GET DOWN ON HER KNEES AND PRAY
BECAUSE SHE LOVES HIM
TOLD ALL THE NEIGHBORS HE WAS OFF IN THE WAR
FIGHTIN' FOR FREEDOM, HE'S GOOD TO THE CORE
AND SHE'S PROUD
NOW OUR PLACE WAS A GRAVEYARD FOR AUTOMOBILES
AT THE END OF THE PORCH THERE WAS FOUR STACKS OF WHEELS
AND TIRES FOR SALE FOR A DOLLAR OR TWO
CASH

THERE WAS FIFTY HOLES IN AN OLD TIN ROOF
ME AND MY FAMILY WE WAS LIVIN' PROOF
THE PEOPLE WHO FORGOT ABOUT POOR WHITE TRASH
AND IF THAT AIN'T COUNTRY, I'LL KISS YOUR ASS
IF THAT AIN'T COUNTRY, IT'LL HAIRLIP THE POPE
IF THAT AIN'T COUNTRY, IT'S A DAMN GOOD JOKE
I'VE SEEN THE GRAND OLE OPRY, AND I'VE MET JOHNNY CASH
IF THAT AIN'T COUNTRY, I'LL KISS YOUR ASS
I'M THINKING TONIGHT OF MY BLUE EYES
CONCERNING THE GREAT SPECKLED BIRD
I DIDN'T KNOW GOD MADE HONKY-TONK ANGELS
AND WENT BACK TO THE WILD SIDE OF LIFE

[Spider Jerusalem]

32. Music strongly rooted in the Scots-Irish ballad tradition...

(which includes songs about lost love, broken hearts, young lasses jilted and left with a bun in the oven by charming, faithless, devil-may-care lads who move on to the next town and the next girl, reivers and highwaymen who more often than not end on the gallows, murder and revenge, and the hope of Christian salvation) influenced by the blues (whence came the guitar and banjo), and gospel.

Scots-Irish hill country 'white trash' and black ex-slaves occupied similar positions on the socioeconomic ladder in the post-Civil War South, and both country and the blues spring from the similar oral traditions of poor, mostly illiterate people for whom singing and music were a way to communicate their joys and sorrows, to find comfort and solace from their lives of backbreaking and unending toil and social marginalisation, and to pass down stories from one generation to the next. So I suppose the reply above that calls country music 'the white man's blues' is sort of accurate, in a way.