Psssst... didn't get the memo? STEELY DAN SUCKS

[no name no slogan]

Pedestrian arrangements played by the hackiest of L.A. studio hacks coupled with utterly ridiculous lyrics that would earn you an "F" in any undergrad creative writing class. And the Burroughs reference just proves that Fagen and Becker don't have a single good idea between them.

They weren't "clever" then, and they're less clever now, 30 years later.

:popcorn:

[Schema Thing]

1. Their fans, even our fellow DU'ers

are just bad people. Any reasonable person would agree.



:popcorn:

[no name no slogan]

3. ESPECIALLY our fellow DUers

They should know better, after all

:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

[Richard Steele]

2. And they stole their name from a fictional dildo. nm

[Richardo]

29. As did you, by the looks of it

:)

[Richard Steele]

47. Nothing could be further from the truth....

My dad wasn't fictional!
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Sincerely,
Richard.

[Lady Effingbroke]

4. I love Steely Dan!

I am a bad person! I have no taste in music what-so-ever!
:evilgrin:

[Writer]

5. I'd prefer to suck on a Steely Dan...

OMG - what did I just say???

:wow:

;) ;) ;)

[swag]

6. Steely Dan needs to be put in wanky panties

and spanked hard with a steel-bristle brush.

Teh wurst.

[jukes]

26. i imagine

both becker & fagin have tried that 1 time or other.

[Robeson]

7. Steely Dan is awesome. But you suck.....

...:hi:

[KitchenWitch]

10. LOL

You are bad!

:rofl:

[njdemocrat106]

8. Who the hell do you like? Bjork? Radiohead?

Other over-hyped critical darlings?

I think DU's taste in music is the few (if not) only things that sterotypes liberals as elitists.

[mduffy31]

15. Radiohead

Really I don't get it, why does Spin magazine think they are so good, and why am I an asshole for thinking they are really overrated?

[HughBeaumont]

19. Radiohead: Ersatz Nirvana turned ersatz Aphex Twin/Krautrock.

Of course, when one has musical tastes of artists like Korn, Snoop Dogg, Disturbed and Rob Zombie, it's easy to see why they would masturbate in droves over bands like Radiohead, Tool (Neurosis/Melvins Lite) and Mars Volta (not a bad studio band but disappointed the HELL out of me live).

[leeroysphitz]

30. Mars Volta?

You might as well listen to a string of random noises compiled by a group of three or four dozen trained, syphilitic howler monkeys on meth.

Who keeps giving tape recorders to those g@d-d@mned MONKEYS?

[driver8]

85. I agree with you. I do not understand the Radiohead love fest...

I bought a couple of their albums and hated them both. I made some kid happy at the used cd shop because that is where they ended up.

[GirlinContempt]

24. I'm tired of people feeling like they need to 'defend' some band they like

and I'm tired of being called a music elitist because I don't listen to the same boring, tired bullshit as person x, y, or z.

It's the cop out of choice in music discussions. "WAH you insulted a band I like so I'll call you an elitist and paint you as a hypocrite so I don't have to actually discuss my choices or deal with the fact that I'm getting upset about a freaking BAND!"

[no name no slogan]

32. SHHHH!!!! not so LOUD

You'll make it look like we're not the cultural elitists that we ARE

Now, let's go listen to that trip-hop remix of that Tibetan throat music, mmmkay? :7

[GirlinContempt]

36. I've already decided that, as a birthday present to myself

I'm going to record the conversation and background noise at the party, speed it up, and mix in ten of my all time favorite songs, then run it backward and add washing machine sound effects.

MMMMMMMM happy elitist birthday to me.

[no name no slogan]

56. Elitist

y'know, you should send it to Brian Eno... maybe he's looking for some undiscovered talent to produce? :D

[Spider Jerusalem]

78. Psst...

that's 'Tuvan' throat singing (you just lost some elitist points) :D

[redqueen]

59. Um, if they didn't, what's the point of this thread?

Fuckinell...

*hostility deleted*

[GirlinContempt]

71. Hilarity?

Hijinx?

[redqueen]

72. Yes, and where would the hilarity and hijinx be...

if nobody responded except people going "ur sooo right d00d! LOLOLZZZZ!!!11!"

[GirlinContempt]

76. There are responses between the extreme I'm talking about

and the extreme YOU are talking about.

Though some of your replies have been pretty hilarious :D

[no name no slogan]

31. Hardly. Most critics are full of shite anyway.

Most of them who were not necessarily critical darlings, but who produced damn fine, soulfull music in undeserved obscurity and who didn't have to rely on studio gimmickry and cloyingly clever lyrics to make their point.

As a musician, I have quite a lot of music on CD, CS and even more on LP, not to mention downloads from iTunes. For example, here's a sampling of what's on my iPod right now:

Johnny Cash
Catherine Wheel
The Chameleons (UK)
The Church
The Commodores
Comsat Angels
Cocteau Twins
The Fixx
Foghat ("Slowride", a classic boogie tune if there ever was one)
Gang of Four
Golden Earring ("Radar Love" is a CLASSIC tune)
Grant Lee Buffalo
Hawkwind
Killing Joke
Kitchens of Distinction
Loop
Paco De Lucia
Peter Murphy
My Bloody Valentine
New Order
Ojos De Brujo
Pink Floyd
Robert Plant
Psychedelic Furs
Pink Floyd (Syd Barrett era)
Roxy Music
Slowdive
Springhouse
The Stooges
Swervedriver
The Veldt
The Verve
Violet Indiana
Al Wilson
Brian Wilson
Stevie Wonder

Yeah, there's a few "indy" artists on there, but there's also quite a few "mainstream" artists, too. None of them are what I would call "elitist". Obscure, probably. But not by their own choice, that's for sure.

[fudge stripe cookays]

84. THE CHURCH???!!!

HANDS OFF STEFFI, He's MINE!!!!!!!!

:woohoo:

[Floogeldy]

9. Skunk Baxter and Denny Diaz

It doesn't get much better than that.

And what instrument to you play? :)

[WritingIsMyReligion]

17. LOL!

We played Steely Dan in jazz band, fer chrissakes. My impossible to please, twisted, sardonic, malcontent jazz band teacher had us play "Deacon Blues" because he wanted us to look at the chordal structures and the complicated melodic lines.

The album Aja is called "a musician's album"--because of those same melodic lines.

I don't get this "pedestrian" stuff.

:shrug:

[no name no slogan]

54. You've summed up my argument right there

"musicians' music" == technically impressive, sonically sound, but mediocre overall.

There's an overwhelming notion among aspiring musicians that technically complicated == good. This is why you see hacks like John McLaughlin lauded as "great musicians" when they are little more than musical mechanics: competant, can play "complicated" arrangements, and know all those fancy jazz chords, but whose performance overall is so mechanical its as if every emotional moment has been either sufferingly well-scripted in advance, or effectively purged from the piece entirely.

When I was first learning guitar (a decade before you were born), I used to idolize the likes of Steve Howe, John McLaughlin, Eddie van Halen and their ilk, thinking that their music was the height of musical sophistication. I eventually learned that it's not the fact that you can play dotted 64th notes that matter, its whether or not you are able to convey anything to the listener besides "hey, I sure am a clever musician". It's not about the notes that you play and what fancy-schmancy Berklee School of Music charts you can read, but where NOT to play that really matters.

Steely Dan, IMHO, is the epitome of that kind of music. It is constructed entirely in a recording studio, by studio mechanics (i.e., people who could easily be replaced by machines, their playing is so robotic and character-free), for a consuming public who uses the music for little more than aural window-dressing. Music as wallpaper, if you will.

This kind of "music" is why punk was necessary: it got rid of the "jobber" mentality, and made music human and vital once again. It proved that you didn't have to be a Berklee grad to write and play good music or that you had to own top-notch equipment to make it, and that pop music was truly democratic-- anybody with something to say could make a record, even if they weren't the most technical player in the world.

Sorry if this sounds like a diatribe, but I've actually had guitar students who have given up their instruments when they figured out they would never play like their wank-rock guitar heroes. It almost happened to me. Then I realized that it wasn't HOW you played that mattered, it was WHAT you played.

[WritingIsMyReligion]

64. The 'Dan is auditory-outstanding.

I also happen to think they have a certain amount of soul you don't find in other so-called "mechanical" groups, but, by the looks of it, we'll have to agree to disagree on that point. ;)

Students who gave up instruments because of Eddie van Halen? Whoa.

[skypilot]

58. I don't get this "pedestrian" stuff either.

Although I think their lyrics can be a bit out there, I love Steely Dan. The song "Godwhackers" on their Everything Must Go CD is one of the most funky, kick-ass pieces of music I've heard in awhile. That song actually makes me want to jump up and down. There's not alot of music that makes me feel that way these days. And so many people claim to hate Steely Dan that I don't understand how they can be described as "pedestrian".

[redqueen]

62. Hi skypilot!

:hi:

[skypilot]

66. Hi YOU!!!

I knew we'd bump into each other sooner or later. How the hell are you? I'm just about to log out but reply anyway and hopefully we can talk more tomorrow.:hi: :loveya:

[redqueen]

68. hehe... seems like forever...

I'm all right... fighting off cynicism and depression and just giving the hell up. Considering just running away. :P

And how are you? How've you been? I'm so not ready for summer down here... I need to move someplace where they have actual seasons. ;)

... until tomorrow... :hug:

[no name no slogan]

33. I play several, in fact. How about you?

I write music and lyrics and sing. In fact I have a four-octave vocal range, not including my falsetto.

I also play guitar (several styles, including rock, jazz, blues and flamenco), keys, bass, viola, saxophone, clarinet, a little flute some percussion (like bongos, congas, djembe-- but I'm still learning these). I also do MIDI sequencing and drum programming as well. Not to mention music production and sound systems, too.

[eyepaddle]

53. Yeah, well, until you master the Tablas

you suck.

Sorry to have to break it to you. :P

Have you ever seen Jelloslave...or maybe it was Celloslave, at any rate they opened for my friend's band (Sam Keenan) and I must say I was quite entertained! By the way, they have a really good tabla player! :D

[driver8]

80. I have a four octave vocal range, too. The problem is...

I never know which octaves!! :headbang:

[jpgray]

11. I wrote that memo

[JVS]

57. Et tu, jpgray?

[jpgray]

75. It just leaves me totally cold

It isn't really terrible, but I can't imagine ever being in a place where I say "I must put on some Steely Dan."

[donheld]

12. I love Steely Dan

:loveya: Screw you :spank:

[wildhorses]

13. I throw darts at that memo....

:popcorn:

[In_The_Wind]

14. Your memo went through the wash before I read it.

Besides you're too late. www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=105&topic_id=5075134&mesg_id=5075860

[WritingIsMyReligion]

16. And to what would you prefer I listen?

Already do jazz, and no, not Kenny G or any other "smooth jazz." REAL jazz, i.e. Miles, Trane, Duke, Ella. I already listen to classic rock--the Stones, the Beatles.

I can understand why people don't like the 'Dan, and I don't care what they think--they can hate Fagen all the way to the grave, and that's cool with me. I DON'T understand why people call them "pedestrian" or "hacky." Clearly their stuff, with its fascinating lyrics--yes, I called them fascinating; I do believe they are very clever, very sardonic, very twisting, not ridiculous--seems to at least be made by real musicians, not the true "hacks" who dominate the popular music scene.

Fagen and Becker know how to write and how to play--I wish the same understanding of theory and the underpinnings of music applied to the 99% of "popular" musicians who can't even sing, never mind work a chordal structure.

:shrug:

[rppper]

18. i fart in your general direction, sir..........

studio hacks or not...they get a pass just for making "hey 19" and "fm", not to mention all the great studio musicians who have played with becker and fagen over the years

[DrGonzoLives]

20. OMGZ U R WORSE THAN HITLER LOLlololzzzz

Eh, they're OK. A few of their songs are worth listening to, the rest is just easy listening station filler.

[HughBeaumont]

21. I grew up with Steely Dan and STILL bust out Aja a lot.

When josie comes home
So bad
She’s the best friend we ever had
She’s the raw flame
The live wire
She prays like a roman
With her eyes on fire

[WritingIsMyReligion]

48. AWESOME song.

:thumbsup:

She prays like a Roman with her eyes on fire!

[ProfessorGAC]

22. Wrong

That is all.
The Professor

[WritingIsMyReligion]

49. Wow...Even the Professor's joining in this one.

:D

[redqueen]

61. ...

:loveya:

[asthmaticeog]

23. It's like that band was tailor-made for me, yet I still can't stand 'em.

I like cynical, I like sardonic, I like tricky arrangements, and yet every time I give Steely Dan another chance, I just wind up groaning at the godawful showoffy fusiony-ness of it all. Then some Dan-head will tell me "Oh, you listened to THAT album? Nah, man you need to check out THIS one." So I do. And get burned yet again. I give 'em respect, but I don't wanna fucking hear 'em anymore.

[no name no slogan]

38. I'm in the same boat, too

but you know what those session hacks remind me of? The "band dinks" from junior high.

You know them: liked to show off their nascent "chops" during warmup, liked to asskiss the band instructor so they'd get 1st or 2nd chair, snobbishly looked down your nose at you if you didn't "groove" on playing "Watermelon Man" for the ump-fucking-teenth time for the fall concert.

They always thought they were the shit because they could read the charts better than everyone, but when it came to letting loose with a real solo, they completely froze up, or tried to play some flashy crap that was entirely inappropriate to the piece in question.

Invariably, Steely Dan was their favorite group.

So yeah, I can respect their musicianship, just like I can respect the guy who invented the player piano. But I'd hardly classify it in the same category as, say, Johnny Cash, Albert King, John Coltrane or even bloody Stevie Ray Vaughan, for that matter.

[asthmaticeog]

45. Amen.

What wonks like that never get is that ineffable thing called feel. Guys with chops AND feel start out with feel and learn chops. Folks who start out with mad chops that they've never had to work too hard on invariably never learn feel, and remain skilled but vacuous wankers forever.

That said, whoever did the solo on "Reeling in the Years" gets big love from me. That's some beautiful and tasteful work, and I'm no great lover of big solos.

OK, going off-topic now because you mentioned player pianos - ever heard of a composer named Conlon Nancarrow? The guy did compositions for player piano, as in he composed his own music and then sat down and punched out his own rolls of paper to feed into the player piano. There are, of course, numerous passages that some poor human yutz with only ten fingers couldn't possibly play, and yes, it lacks nuance in the performance (since player pianos couldn't shade the volume or attack of a note he compensated by putting bits of metal or leather on the hammers), but some of they guy's stuff is really fucking wonderful. Oh, and lefty-cool bonus points - he fought against Franco in the Lincoln Brigades.

[no name no slogan]

55. You've nailed it for me

I've seen a lot of technically proficient players who can out-Yngwie Yngwie Malmstein, but put them in a situation where playing less is more and they are totally lost. They are one-trick ponies who only know how to show off when the spotlight hits them-- outside of that, they are utterly useless as team players.

I'll have to check out Conlon Nancarrow-- sounds very interesting. And anybody who fought in the Lincolns is a-OK with me. :thumbsup:

[redqueen]

65. You guys are so off... it's not even funny...

One of my oldest friends is the complete opposite of what you're describing... used to gripe about those guys in much more creative ways than y'all are now... and he loves the Dan.

So don't fool yourself believing only music major hacks like 'em, cause you're wrong!

[JVS]

60. I find it to be great music for getting drunk and playing video games

[LynneSin]

25. MY GOD, I LOVE STEELY DAN AND I'M NOT AFRAID TO SHOUT IT

:grr:

Steely Dan had this groove that just kinda put you in your special place, brought this sense of peace around you as you jammed to their music. Probably one of the best non-LZ concert I've ever seen was when I saw Steely Dan back in 2000. I'd see them again if they were on tour. Best thing about the concert - no, 15-year old kid near by puking on the cheap fortifed wine & nyquil they were chugging before the concert. It was all adults who were there to enjoy the music and not offend everyone sitting around them.

[WritingIsMyReligion]

50. They're touring again this year, with Michael McDonald.

For Everything Must Go.

:loveya:

[Ekirh]

70. Never heard Steely Dan

But by god I love that quote

"no, 15-year old kid near by puking on the cheap fortifed wine & nyquil they were chugging before the concert."

Cause that's exactly that's what happened to me when I went to a Flogging Molly concert. . . althoug this 15 year old in question I doubt was puking up fortifed wine . . . but still . . close enough.

I haven't gone to enough concerts. Then again not many concerts that have really interested me so I guess that evens out. Not to mention some of my fav bands no longer tour since they were "before my time" "whines".

[DS1]

27. Was there more lyrics SPAM last night?

My ignore button was starting to wear out

[jukes]

28. unworthy

of comment

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

34. I gotta depart with you there

Most cover bands don't like Dan because most cover bands can only read TABS not charts. One may call them pedestrian arrangements but compared to what? The 1-4-5 most rock bands play? (Not that there's not good/ great 1-4-5 stuff, it's the feeling that counts)

They brought together some of the greatest session players including the Crusaders, using Skunk Baxter for some great solos (Boddhitsava rocks)

The Aja album was probably the peak of their carreer as artists

About the only thing I blame them for is David Sandborn because I have no doubt that if Sandborn hadn't risen to pop fame, Kenny G would not have either :evilgrin:

[no name no slogan]

35. To be fair, Bowie is partially responsible for Sanborn

He was using him in the 70s, too, most notably on "Young Americans". So I'll let the offa the hook on that one.

Honestly, I own a couple of Steely Dan LPs (yes, LPs). They're okay once every year or so. However, I think they are vastly overrated as far as clever, sophisticated pop songs go.

For clever, sophisticated studio pop/pap, I much prefer 10cc. Now THERE's a group of session hacks! :evilgrin:

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

37. Except if your pop is that clever, you get some success :)

10cc's overall reach was limited.

I don't think every Dan album is a masterpiece but I do think they got successively better until they peaked with Aja...after that, it was all formula.

[no name no slogan]

40. That's because they were British

10cc were huge in the UK in their time, but they didn't translate very well over here. Aja is probably my favorte SD record too.

But "I'm Not In Love" is still a pop masterpiece! :hi:

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

43. Oh it is...and good thing they followed up with

"The Things We Do For Love" so they didn't get called "one hit wonders" over here.

My favorites are Katy Lied and The Royal Scam

[MuseRider]

41. Gotta agree with you.

Especially on the Kenny G part :puke:!

But of course I am one of those snooty musicians who over analyzes everything.

:hi: NSMA! I have not been in the lounge in ages so I am very happy to see you.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

44. hi there!!

:hi:

[progmom]

39. got dragged to see them on their comeback tour 12 years ago

We had third row seats, just close enough to notice that the guitar tech squatting behind the stacks of monitors wasn't just tuning guitars - he was actually playing a lot of the solos Walter Becker was miming at the front of the stage. Maybe Becker had injured his hand or something, but that really lowered my opinion of the band considerably.

There's a few SD songs I enjoy humming along to (like Show Biz Kids) but in general I find them insufferably wanky.

[SteppingRazor]

42. Indeed. One step removed from Muzak n/t

[Arugula Latte]

46. BOOooooooo!

Damn you, no name no slogan! Damn you to Hell! *shakes fist indignantly*

[JVS]

51. No way! The Dan rules! Soooo cheesy, soooo good.

[mr blur]

52. You got that right! (nt)

[Beaverhausen]

63. I bet you think Stephen Colbert is a right wing wacko

[Swede]

67. Steely Dan has more talent then 90% of crap playing right now.

They wrote their own music and actually played instruements.

[Ekirh]

69. I can't judge Steely Dan

Since I've actually never heard any Steely Dan at all (OR at least don't think I have. You know how it is I probably have but didn't know it was them yadda yadda yadda)

It's sad all I know about Steely Dan really is where they got their name.

[AzDar]

73. Dildo or no....Steely Dan RAWWWKKKSS!! n/t

[NNadir]

74. Steely Dan sucks...the life out of their critics.

All you have to look at is who their session people were.

You don't play with people like that if you're ordinary.

The lyrics are the best part though, although I would guess that people lacking a sense of the subtle would certainly miss that.

:spank:

[dolo amber]

77. Your MOM sucks, butt crusty

:grr:

[Sugar Smack]

83. LOL!!!!

:D :applause: :yourock:

[driver8]

79. I am going to open a HUGH can of DU Lounge whoop ass and

clean this lounge up!!! Starting with "no name, no slogan"! I'm series, too!!

I came to this lounge to do two things...drink beer and kick ass!

Well, I'm out of beer.




Here is what is in store for "no name, no slogan"...

Nobody puts Steely Dan in a corner...Nobody!!!

:grr:

[flamingyouth]

81. I had to listen to them during a root canal yesterday.

It really ruined the root canal experience, frankly. x(

[Hissyspit]

82. This thread made me order the Steely Dan box set of their complete works

"Citizen" 1972-80

[brentspeak]

86. Great music, and what they consistently pulled off a neat trick:

Consitently producing top-ten singles with songs that featured really bizarre and twisted lyrics.

[Yavin4]

87. There's No Such Thing As Good or Bad Music

Music is whatever moves anyone. No matter what it is.