An really old rap song--Big Bad John

[jobycom]

(hey, it's almost like rap!) :rofl:

Big John
Big John

Every mornning at the mine, you could see him arrive.
He stood 6 foot 6, weighed 245.
Kind of broad at the shoulders, narrow at the hip.
And everybody knew you didn't give no lip to Big John.

Big John
Big John
Big Bad John
Big John

Nobody seemed to know where John called home
He just drifted into town and stayed all alone.
He didn't say much, kind of quiet and shy
And if you spoke at all, you'd just said hi to Big John.
Somebody said he came from New Orleans,
Where he got into a fight over a Cajun Queen.
And a crash and a blow from a huge right hand,
sent a Lousiana fella to the promise land.

Big John
Big John
Big bad John
Big John

Then came the day at the bottom of the mine,
when a timber cracked and men started crying.
Minors were praying, and hearts beat fast
and everybody thought they had breathed thier last
cept' John.
Through the dust and the smoke of this man made hell,
walked a giant of a man that the minors knew well.
Grabbed a sagging timber and gave out with a groan,
and like a giant oak tree he just stood there alone, Big John

Big John
Big John
Big Bad John
Big John

And with all of his strength, he gave a mighty shove.
Then a minor yelled out, 'theres a light up above!'.
And 20 men scrambled from a 'would be' grave
now theres only one left down there to save, Big John.
With jacks and timbers, they started back down,
then came that rumble way down in the ground.
And as smoke and gas smelched out of that mine,
everybody knew it was the end of the line, for Big John.

Big John
Big John
Big Bad John
Big John

Now they never re-opend that wortheless pit,
they just placed a marble stand in front of it.
These few words are written on that stand,
'At the bottom of this mine, lies one Hell of a man, Big John'

Big John
Big John
Big Bad John
Big John.

[MsAnthropy]

I remember that from when I was really little

it scared me that someone could die in a song!

[alcibiades_mystery]

1. Is it possible to celebrate this song

w/o implicitly downing rap?

Seems weird. Or am I just reading into it? Why say it is an old rap song?

[jobycom]

2. Hunh?

I missed any implicit or explicit downing of rap in my comment. Please explain.

[henslee]

23. "Jobycom doesnt care about black music" -- Kanye West

:dunce: Just kiddin... I have no idea what the prev. poster meant about you downing rap.

[jobycom]

24. ROFLMAO!

The OPer and I talked about it. He just misunderstood what I said. We're fine.

[Gormy Cuss]

4. Perhaps because it was spoken, in cadence, rather than sung?

Rap being a percussive musical form, after all.
"Big John" had many style elements that are similar.
And it's jobycom, for Pete's sake -- the owner of the :+ icon.

[jobycom]

7. I still don't get it. Do you see anything criticizing rap in what I said?

I certainly had no intention to do so.

I actually didn't mean to start a thread, this was supposed to a reply in another thread about character development in a song. The OP listed a rap song, and my entry was Coolio's Gangsta's Paradise, then I followed it up with this. I still don't know what I did to start a thread with this, but the rap comment was only a reference to the fact that my previous post was a rap song.

And you're right, the similarity to me was because of the cadence, the speaking instead of singing, and the fact that the song uses ryhthm more than a melody to carry it (my amateur attempt to explain music... :-) ).

[Gormy Cuss]

9. Nope.

I don't see how your post was critical of rap, but I could expound on ways "Big John" is not like rap, or I could discuss why you and your posts usually make me think of this guy::+

[jobycom]

10. Well, on the latter, it's probably because

I'm a clown and too often wind up creating farce when I'm trying to be serious. :-)

As for the many ways Big John isn't rap (even in my weak knowledge of the more technical distinctions between music genres, I can see that), it was a casual pun, made more prominent by the accidental posting of it in its own thread. The song was posted as an example of character development, with the rap comment as a passing reference, but when it wound up in its own thread, the emphasis changed.

[leftofthedial]

13. it's a rhythmically spoken song

could be considered a forebear to rap

along with other traditional "recitations"

[jobycom]

3. THIS IS WEIRD. I hit REPLY in another thread, and it posted a new thread.

Either that's the weirdest glitch I've ever encountered on DU, or I gotta lay off the Cokes.

[johnnie]

5. My buddy and I are doing a cd of songs we liked as kids

This one is on there. :thumbsup:

[begin_within]

6. We actually have this record.

It's the size of a 45, but plays at 33 speed.

[DancingBear]

8. Hardly - it's just a "spoken word" song

This one (by Jimmie Dean, BTW), "Ringo" by Lorne Greene ((Ben Cartwright from Bonanza, but you old guys knew that anyway), "Ballad Of The Green Berets",etc.

Quite a popular format in the early to mid-60's.

edit: In case you want a serious response. :)

[jmowreader]

21. Take the Ballad of the Green Berets off that list

I heard that fucking song at 2200 every night for six months, and I guarantee it's sung.

Oh yeah. Wanna piss off some SF guys? Sing the Ballad of the ASA to them.

[mykpart]

28. Yep, it's the same guy who makes the sausage!

I remember that he had to edit the last line for radio play. Edited it was "At the bottom of this mine lies a big, big man." Not quite the same.

Another spoken song that I would like lyric to was "Old Rivers" by Walter Brennan.

"One of these days I'm gonna climb that mountain
Walk up there among them clouds,
Where the cotton's high and the corn's a-growin'
And there ain't no fields to plow."

[HughBeaumont]

11. This song is scary if you're 7 and listening in a dark room.

It sounds like he's singing at the bottom of a mine. That echo, the backing vocals and minimal music . . . yeesh. Jimmy Dean the Sausage King threw it down on that one.

[MsAnthropy]

16. I'm so glad I'm not the only one!

Whew! Thanks!

[SouthoftheBorderPaul]

12. You're implicitly "downing" rap

by comparing it to country. Yuck!

:D

[jobycom]

18. ROFL! Well, there is that!

Only now someone will say I'm downing country. Sigh. I love both!!!

[leftofthedial]

14. it's a great song

by the sausage guy

also covered by Jimmy Cliff

[SouthoftheBorderPaul]

17. Actually, I've only heard it on the ads for some TimeLife

collection of "The Great Story Songs" or something like that. Always intriqued me. Speaking of older country songs, I love Roger Miller. He's the balls.

[leftofthedial]

20. Roger Miller was one of the giants of American songwriting

he's known mostly for the novelty and funny songs he did ("King of th eRoad," Kansas City Star," etc.), but the dude won a Tony for the songs in Big River on Broadway too. Great, great writer.

[jobycom]

19. Johnny Cash does a version, too. Actually, these are the lyrics he sings

If you note the end, Jimmy Dean's says "At the bottom of this mine lies a big, big man," and Cash says "...a hell of a man."

Just in case anyone cares. :-)

On edit: I might be full of it. I just read somewhere that Jimmy Dean originally sang "A hell of a man" but was forced to change it because of public outcry.

[johnnie]

22. Yeah, they were both done by Dean

I have the "Big big man" version on the LP from when I was a kid and I have the "Hell of a man" on the Jimmy Dean CD I have.

[Servotron]

15. This could easily work as a rap song

I used to have a rap update to Johnny Cash's "A Boy Named Sue".

No, it wasn't actually recorded. Just my own warped creation.

[RevCheesehead]

25. Anyone else been to the "Big John Iron Mine" in Iron Mtn, MI?

That's where I first heard the song. A fun tour, as well.

[Gatchaman]

26. The flip side to this is the greatest song ever recorded

"I Won't Go Hunting With You Jake (But I'll Go Chasing Wimin)"

[Deja Q]

27. "you didn't give no lip to Big John"? Man, that's too easy...

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