Who started Rock and Roll?

[Loonman]

Poll question: Who started Rock and Roll?

The argument falls into 2 camps:

[LuLu550]

1. rock around the clock was first

[BigMcLargehuge]

2. Alan Freed

playing "black" music on white teen friendly radio.

[Name removed]

3. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Paragon]

15. Agreed

Little Richard is the one and only correct answer. Now if the question is who made it palatable to most whites...

[SaintLouisBlues]

41. Little Richard is asked this question in the movie "Hail Hail Rock n Roll"

His answer: Chuck Berry. Of course, its a Chuck Berry movie, so grains of salt are in order.

[felonious thunk]

4. Unrecognized black musicians

that we've probably never heard of.

[theivoryqueen]

6. True story

[Character Assassin]

17. And white ones. Rock and Roll is an amalgamation

Hank Williams influence is incalculable, etc...

[pink_poodle]

25. Absolutely!!!!!! Total credit to the uncredited black musicians!!!!!!!

:

[Screaming Lord Byron]

5. West African Slaves, wasn't it?

[theboss]

7. Ike Turner

"Rocket 88" came out in '51.

[henslee]

52. Oops boss, didnt see this post......

[Kahuna]

8. Neither. Cab Calloway was rockin' and rollin' Loooong

before those guys. Blacks were at the forefront of rock.

[Paragon]

18. They still are

www.livingcolour.com

[ugarte]

9. A false dichotomy

Rock 'n' roll began when Muddy Waters strapped on an electric guitar.

[GumboYaYa]

10. Since I live in St. Louis, I'll go with

Jackie Brensten and Ike Turner with "Rocket 88," but part of me wants to go all the way back to Buddy Bolten in New Orleans.

[GOPisEvil]

11. I had a lecture in my Texas History class in college:

"How Texas Saved Rock and Roll"

It appears that rock and roll was music played by "those people" and we couldn't have our youth (specifically young white girls) having fun dancing to that, now could we. So, if it weren't for Buddy Holly and The Crickets, Roy Orbison and JP "The Big Bopper" Richardson, Rock and Roll would have never flourished the way it did.

What can I say, it was a TEXAS history class after all. :D

[theivoryqueen]

13. Texas has the best local music anywhere!

and that often translates into national acclaim!

[GOPisEvil]

14. I live in Austin, so you KNOW I agree with that!

:thumbsup:

[GumboYaYa]

19. I've been getting into Austin bands lately.

I have a good friend, Rovert Bernard, who played guitar with Picket Line Coyotes. They broke up a few years back and Robert is in several bands now. The rest of Picket Line and Robert's brother Claude formed "The Gourds." I hung around with those guys for years, so I'm a big Gourds fan.

I also have gotten into Los Lonely Boys lately and I saw Robert Earl Keen play last Friday.

I still think New Orleans has the best local music, but you guys are a close second in my book.

[GOPisEvil]

21. *thud* Another Gourds fan??

I am a HUUUUUUUUGGGGGGEEEEE Gourds fan! I've probably seen them, I dunno, 20 times. :D

Los Lonely Boys are based here, but I think they're from San Angelo originally. And Bobby Keen, well, can you imagine him and Lyle Lovett living under the same roof? :D

[GumboYaYa]

24. I used to play with those guys some when they first formed

Picket Line back in '86. It was all punk with a heavy dose of Hendrix and Van Halen guitar licks at the time. Those guys have evolved big time.

I figured if you were from Austin you had heard The Gourds.

[GOPisEvil]

27. They're probably my favorite local band.

I saw them on the 15th as a matter of fact. Great show! :-)

[GumboYaYa]

29. I haven't seen them in years.

I think they all have real jobs now, so they don't tour much.

I'm jealous that you get to see bands like this every weekend. I have to plan to see good bands.

As for RLK and Lyle, I bet they had some amazing late night jams.

[GOPisEvil]

30. They tour! Lookie here!

http://www.thegourds.com/calendar.html

[Wickerman]

31. The Gourds are great!

I love their stuff. Never had the pleasure to see them live, but love their recorded stuff and live tapes I've heard. Got into them because Doug Sahm was such a fan.

Los Lonely Boys are great. I have known the kids for years - long before they moved into the Austin scene. Had the pleasure of seeing them live last month here in Minnesota. They are the real thing - and great guys.

[GumboYaYa]

32. Cool, thanks. I'm gonna see them next time they are close to

St. Louis.

Have you heard Prescott Curleywolf or The Damnations? Those are the bands my friend Robert plays in now.

[GOPisEvil]

35. I saw The Damnations open for Neko Case a few months back.

Me likey! Something about cute women with guitars and keyboards (edit). :loveya:

[theivoryqueen]

22. Dallas has some great bands too

but most people don't drive to see them, unless they play in Denton... which is weird.

[GOPisEvil]

26. Centro-Matic!

Although, I think they've moved down here now. :thumbsup:

[Wickerman]

34. South San Gabriel/Centromatic! eom

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

49. The Toadies!

They were so great.

[theivoryqueen]

12. Hmm.. I think it's time a musician ran for high office

looks like they'd have the support - AND I don't mean Sonny Bono.
I'm thinking a guitar-slinging girl goddess....

[tinrobot]

16. Buddy Holly came much later...

He recorded for Decca in 1956, but his first hit was in '57.

Elvis recorded for Sun in '54, hit big in 55-56.

Bill Haley was recording country in the late 40's, but gradually moved towards rock. He had a song in '52 called 'Rock the Joint.' He also recorded a song in 51-52 called 'Rocket 88' which was a cover of Ike Turner's record from '51.

Ike claims that his the first rock-n-roll record, but who knows...

[starroute]

40. In 1954, Buddy Holly was a teenaged geek trying to be a country singer

By 1955, he was kinda-maybe edging his way towards rockabilly, but he didn't actually get there until 1956

Buddy was amazing, but he definitely wasn't the first.

[WilliamPitt]

20. Slaves, and then chain gangs, and then Robert Johnson

[ACK]

23. Bullshit Chuck Berry

Yeah the man started that rock and roll soul.

on edit:

Bo Diddley too... the chicago blues merging with that guitar dancing beat baby ...

Little Richards as well..

Those three men did more that Holly or anyone else.

I respect the Holly and others but I know the roots and no when to give credit where credit is due.

[MojoKrunch]

33. Here, here.

Between them, that trio pretty much invented rock piano/guitar and the over-the-top front man.

Mojo

[Character Assassin]

39. In that case, you're missing the point about Buddy Holly

Those three men did more that Holly or anyone else.

Absolutely untrue.

Those three men did contribute to an unmeasurable degree, but they're not really comparable to Holly, and Holly represents roots as well, as he was far more inventive than either Berry or Diddley. Original roots are one thing, creativity and using those roots to grow quite another.

Add to that he did it in a miniscule time period, from the spring of 1957 until the winter of 1958-1959. That was less time than Elvis had at the top before the army took him, and even less time than Elvis spent in the army.

Holly was the single most influential creative force in early rock & roll.

The fact that the group relied on originals for their singles made them unique and put them years ahead of their time. He hit number one with a song he'd written, which was an industry first and wouldn't really be appreciated until years later as to the effect that had on pop music in general.

Holly also directly opposed the industry method of recording, which was to bring the artist into the label's own studio. He and the Crickets recorded at Petty's (Norman Petty, his producer) studio.

Add to that the touring he and the Crickets did in England, influening members of the Beatles, Hank Marvin, Elvis Costello, etc... and his introduction of the Fender Stratocaster to England as well.

When it comes to roots and originality, Holly wrote the damn book.

[ACK]

43. They did more to START the genre

They were first.

They were making that kind of music and in Berry and Little Richards defense also popularizing it way before Holly jumped in hard and big.

I like Buddy Holly and even understand the wide range of influence the man had on the genre.

But they were first and they were the pioneers of the genre. You asked who started Rock-and-Roll and in defense of all the bluesmen that went beyond honky tonk blues and beyond Chicago Blues and reached out and created something new I had to stand up and say this. Berry and the great underappreciated Diddley were not as inventive? I disagree fiercely.

I am NOT saying that Buddy Holly was a punk ass pretender. He was very important to the music in a seminal fashion.

But he did not start it.

[tinrobot]

46. Ummm....

influening members of the Beatles, Hank Marvin, Elvis Costello, etc...

Elvis Costello? He was born in 1955, was barely out of diapers. Just because he wore the black framed glasses didn't mean that Holly was the total influence.

The Beatles were just as influenced by Little Richard as Holly. Did you ever hear McCartney sing "Good Golly Miss Molly..." I can't ever recall them singing a Holly song.

[Character Assassin]

48. No one ever indicated that....

Just because he wore the black framed glasses didn't mean that Holly was the total influence.

I'm sorry, where are you getting that? He was a major influence, but not the sum total. Who said that?

The Beatles were just as influenced by Little Richard as Holly. Did you ever hear McCartney sing "Good Golly Miss Molly..." I can't ever recall them singing a Holly song.

McCartney is a self-professed huge Holly fan, and in 1975, McCartney's MPL Communications bought Holly's publishing catalog from a near-bankrupt Petty.

[trackfan]

28. Rock is an amalgam

of a certain strain of Jazz/Blues with American Country/Folk, and, after the Beatles, with more sophisticated harmonic elements from European Classical/Serious music.

[greyl]

36. You've got to be kidding.

Those two choices came into the scene a little late.

[MrBenchley]

37. Hank Ballard and the Midniters

Check out a Rhino anthology called "The Roots of Rock & Roll" which has lots of acts from the late 1940s and early 1950s...like H-Bomb Ferguson...

[Pale_Rider]

38. Check out the Rock and Roll timeline!

From the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame and Museum ... for Rockabilly ... Jerry Lee Lewis and Sam Phillips come up a bit before Bil Haley or Buddy Holly ... Great Balls of Fire!

http://www.rockhall.com/timeline/

[noonwitch]

42. Chuck Berry?

At least, that's my opinion.

[JAbuchan08]

44. I agree that it's an amalgamation

Rock and Roll would never have been what it is without bluegrass or blues. Bluegrass would not have been what it is without the introduction of the Banjo (essentially a west-african insturment in its early incarnations) and blues would not have been what it was without the guitar (and we all know where it came from). Rock and Roll music as we know it had its earliest incarnation in WWII era R&B - which included both black and white bandleaders. Carl Pickens, little Richard, Chuck Berry, Elvis Presley, and a load of early pioneers could be credited with creating the sound that we know today as "Rock and Roll." Some of them were more bee-bop, some more rock'a billy. Berry grew up in a mostly white area, Elvis in a mostly black area. Personally I think that Public Enemy and Nirvana should be at least partially credited for creating the Rock music that I like - and when you think about it music itself wouldn't have existed without the contributions of our early cave-person ancestors.
Basically what I'm saying is that "Rock and Roll" is a pretty arbitrary category, and trying to establlish an "inventor" is just a divisive pursuit instead we should recognize our favorite oldies artists as innovators instead because we can never know who invented rock and roll and praising one as an inventor neglects the innovations of others. The name wasn't even invented until AFTER the music was.

[mitchum]

54. Yours is the correct answer

good job

45. the blues

"the blues had a baby and they named it rock n roll" -- Muddy Waters

[KittyWampus]

47. Joe Turner- Shouting The Blues

IMO

[NightTrain]

50. How about Big Joe Turner?

He was making boogie-woogie records in 1938 that rock as hard as anything I've heard from the '50s.

[henslee]

51. Ike Turner and Sam Phillips when they released Jackie Brenston's Rocket88!

Ike ws an A and R man for Sun records when he discovered Jackie. Rocket 88 completely predates anything else by a few years.
The vocals are raw, its about a car, it has that rock beat before there was rock (it was still jump blues)there's a sax solo, its got the repeated verse, its about 2 minutes long and it kicks ass... listen for yourself...

<http://www.npr.org/programs/morning/features/2001/nov/phillips/011128.sam.phillips.html>

[henslee]

53. To hear Rocket 88 in my pev postm, click on NPR link and scroll down!

n/t

[Bonobo]

55. WTF? It's Little Richard!

[NightTrain]

56. Perhaps this will be of some interest

The following from the book, "WHAT WAS THE FIRST ROCK 'N' ROLL RECORD?" by Jim Dawson & Steve Propes (Faber & Faber, 1992), provides their list of candidates:

1 Jazz at the Philharmonic: Blues, Part 2 (1944)
2 Joe Liggins and His Honeydrippers: The Honeydripper (1945)
3 Helen Humes with the Bill Doggett Octet: Be-Baba-Leba (1945)
4 Freddie Slack and His Orchestra, with Ella Mae Morse: House Of Blue Lights (1946)
5 Big Boy Crudup: That's All Right (1946)
6 Jack McVea and His All Stars: Open The Door, Richard (1946)
7 Lonnie Johnson: Tomorrow Night (1948)
8 Wynonie Harris and His All Stars: Good Rockin' Tonight (1948)
9 Wild Bill Moore: We're Gonna Rock, We're Gonna Roll (1948)
10 Orioles: It's Too Soon To Know (1948)
11 John Lee Hooker: Boogie Chillen (1948)
12 Arthur Smith and the Crackerjacks: Guitar Boogie (1948)
13 Stick McGhee and His Buddies: Drinkin' Wine Spo-Dee-O-Dee (1949)
14 Jimmy Preston and His Prestonians: Rock The Joint (1949)
15 Louis Jordan and His Tympany Five: Saturday Night Fish Fry (1949)
16 Professor Longhair: Mardi Gras In New Orleans (1949)
17 Fats Domino: The Fat Man (1950)
18 Muddy Waters: Rollin' and Tumblin' (1950)
19 Hardrock Gunter and the Pebbles: Birmingham Bounce (1950)
20 Hank Snow and His Rainbow Ranch Boys: I'm Movin' On (1950)
21 Ruth Brown with Budd Johnson's Orchestra: Teardrops From My Eyes(1950)
22 Arkie Shibley and His Mountain Dew Boys: Hot Rod Race (1950)
23 Les Paul and Mary Ford: How High The Moon (1951)
24 Jackie Brenston with His Delta Cats: Rocket 88 (1951)
25 Dominoes: Sixty Minute Man (1951)
26 Johnnie Ray with the Four Lads: Cry (1951)
27 Clovers: One Mint Julep (1952)
28 Bill Haley and the Saddlemen: Rock The Joint (1952)
29 Dominoes: Have Mercy Baby (1952)
30 Lloyd Price: Lawdy Miss Clawdy (1952)
31 Hank Williams and the Drifting Cowboys: Kaw-Liga (1953)
32 Willie Mae "Big Mama" Thorton with Kansas City Bill: Hound Dog (1953)
33 Big Joe Turner: Honey Hush (1953)
34 Clyde McPhatter and the Drifters: Money Honey (1953)
35 Crows: Gee (1953)
36 Big Joe Turner: Shake, Rattle, and Roll (1954)
37 Royals/Midnighters: Work With Me, Annie (1954)
38 Chords: Sh-Boom (1954)
39 Bill Haley and His Comets: (We're Gonna) Rock Around The Clock (1954)
40 Robins: Riot In Cell Block #9 (1954)
41 Elvis Presley, Scotty and Bill: That's All Right (1954)
42 Penguins: Earth Angel (Will You Be Mine) (1954)
43 LaVern Baker and the Gliders: Tweedle Dee (1954)
44 Johnny Ace with the Johnny Otis Orchestra: Pledging My Love (1954)
45 Ray Charles: I've Got A Woman (1954)
46 Bo Diddley: Bo Diddley (1955)
47 Chuck Berry: Maybellene (1955)
48 Little Richard: Tutti Frutti (1955)
49 Carl Perkins: Blue Suede Shoes (1956)
50 Elvis Presley: Heartbreak Hotel (1956)

[Cleita]

57. Well back when we had Rythm and Blues, it morphed

into Rock n' Roll when white artists like Elvis and Jerry Lee Lewis introduced it into the mainstream. "Rock Around the Clock became famous because of a movie called "Blackboard Jungle", but it had been around for a few years before the movie among the teens in the first half of the fifties.

My parents and other wouldn't let us listen to Rythm and Blues at home but we managed to sneak listen to it anyway, even though records were vinyl platters and radios were clunky affairs with tubes. We almost always found a jukebox somewhere or someone with a car with a radio to listen to the music we wanted to. Rock only became respectable when Ricky Nelson and other Hollywood artists entered the arena.